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riverman200
05-11-2012, 11:08 PM
I have a '94 Maristar that I bought in the fall. It has the 350 with TBI. It had a problem running and a mechanic said it needed a new fuel pump, filter. He fixed that this winter and it runs amazing now. However starting was and still is a problem. Cold starts are strong. Turn the key, let the fuel pump prime, and it fires right up, after the engine has reached temp and I shut it off, if I let it sit for more than a min or two it does not want to start. I can force it to start by giving it some throttle but it will run terrible and smoke, eventually it will catch and run and after it settles down will continue to run fine, until I shut it off again. Any advice would be much appreciated!

cmarty123
05-12-2012, 09:58 AM
I have a 95 with the same problem. When I bought the boat 2 years ago the previous owner didn't have a thermostat in it and it started well. I put a 160 in it and it began not starting well. Then I looked at the specs for the engine and they recomended a 140. I put that one in and it's better, but it's not perfect. I'm about ready to take the thermostat out like when I bought it. I have also replaced the IAC valve.

The only thing I can think of is that the programming of the EFI is not quite right and it does something to cause hard starting issues when a temp sensor is too high. I'm curious too if anybody knows anything else. I realise these years were the beginning of EFI for Indmar...

ahhudgins
05-12-2012, 10:58 AM
My 95 Maristar calls for the 142 degree thermostat and it always seems to run a little rich (gas smell at the exhaust). I tried to use the 160 stat and it seemed to lean out the mixture but it won't restart after the engine has been shut off for a few minutes. The engine goes into heat soak and the temperature rises. If I let the engine temperature come down to about 170 it will fire right up. It's in the ECM programming, if your engine calls for a 142 degree stat, the 160 lets it get too hot when you shut it off.

After you shut your engine down and let it sit for a while, turn the key to the "run" position and see what your engine temperature is.

riverman200
05-12-2012, 09:35 PM
Thank you for your imput! I will check my operating temp as soon as I gat a moement to run it. Also would anyone know what is the proper way to time it?

mikeg205
05-12-2012, 10:03 PM
Thank you for your imput! I will check my operating temp as soon as I gat a moement to run it. Also would anyone know what is the proper way to time it?

Mastercraft manual says 142 - Indmar Manual calls out 160 on TBI.

www.skidim.com also recommended a 160 for the 1995 350 TBI. atomizes fuel better.

ahhudgins
05-13-2012, 09:54 PM
Mastercraft manual says 142 - Indmar Manual calls out 160 on TBI.

www.skidim.com also recommended a 160 for the 1995 350 TBI. atomizes fuel better.

When I first had this issue with my Maristar 200VRS I found out that there is different ECM programming between certain Maristars and other models like a 190. Same year, same engine, same TBI, different program. The 95 200VRS also won't let me rev the engine over 2500 RPMs in neutral and two other owners of the 200VRS verified this. I asked my local dealer about it and he just shrugged his shoulders. :confused:

Table Rocker
05-13-2012, 10:24 PM
I'm not sure what years it pertained to, but there was an ECM recalibration done for some years.

SERVICE ALERT
Date: April 26, 2001
Advisory #SA2001-2
SUBJECT: TBI Hard Start When Hot

Under certain conditions, customers may experience a hard start when hot situation with their Throttle Body Fuel Injected (TBI) engines. These engines are equipped with the CEFI 3
Electronic Control Module (ECM). Generally, the engine will be able to start after opening the
throttle slightly and cranking the engine with the starter.

A calibration refinement has been made to remedy this hard start when hot condition. This
refined calibration went into production in November 2000, starting with engine serial number IC977546. Any engines with serial number IC977546 or higher will already have this
calibration refinement. This calibration opens the Idle Air Control Valve slightly during
cranking, which allows sufficient air to pass through the system to allow an easier start.

If you have a hard start when hot complaint from a customer, the new calibration can be
downloaded into the CEFI 3 controller. If you have the WinCal recalibration software and
cable at your dealership, contact Indmar and we will send you the updated TBI calibration.
The calibration is identified with KKSUM 13885, Engine ID 12, Prom ID 14604.

If you do not have the WinCal software, you can remove the ECM from the boat and send it
to Indmar for recalibration. We will recalibrate the ECM the same day we receive it and return it to you via the same means used to ship it to us. Send the ECM to:

Indmar
ECM Recalibration Services
5400 Old Millington Rd.
Millington, TN 38053

Make sure to tag the ECM with your dealership name and the serial number of the engine
when you send the ECM in for recalibration.

mikeg205
05-13-2012, 11:33 PM
cool find... or have...

mikeg205
05-13-2012, 11:34 PM
When I first had this issue with my Maristar 200VRS I found out that there is different ECM programming between certain Maristars and other models like a 190. Same year, same engine, same TBI, different program. The 95 200VRS also won't let me rev the engine over 2500 RPMs in neutral and two other owners of the 200VRS verified this. I asked my local dealer about it and he just shrugged his shoulders. :confused:

Shrugged shoulders...really invokes a ton of confidence....

The real question is why the boat manual says one thing and the engine manufacturer says another...coming from a product management background....the answer would lie in the product management... :D :)

JimN
05-13-2012, 11:41 PM
I have a 95 with the same problem. When I bought the boat 2 years ago the previous owner didn't have a thermostat in it and it started well. I put a 160 in it and it began not starting well. Then I looked at the specs for the engine and they recomended a 140. I put that one in and it's better, but it's not perfect. I'm about ready to take the thermostat out like when I bought it. I have also replaced the IAC valve.

The only thing I can think of is that the programming of the EFI is not quite right and it does something to cause hard starting issues when a temp sensor is too high. I'm curious too if anybody knows anything else. I realise these years were the beginning of EFI for Indmar...

It was '95, not the Stone Age. They did a butt-load of testing and the program doesn't change on its own. If it runs badly, there's a problem and if it has a problem, something can be nailed down as the cause fairly easily unless it's intermittent.

The ECM responds to input from the sensors and changes the fuel delivery accordingly.

Did you look at the ECT? That's usually what causes hot start issues.

JimN
05-13-2012, 11:45 PM
Shrugged shoulders...really invokes a ton of confidence....

The real question is why the boat manual says one thing and the engine manufacturer says another...coming from a product management background....the answer would lie in the product management... :D :)

The programs are boat-specific. That means they did a completely different serup for a Maristar and Prostar 190 because the hulls are different from a hydrodynamic standpoint. Would you use the same engine program for a big Cadillac and a small Chevy? NO? Why not? Because you don't need as much power in the same RPM range for each. Same with two different boats. Fuel delivery and spark advance are dependent on demand, not some manual from the engine manufacturer.

mikeg205
05-13-2012, 11:47 PM
The programs are boat-specific. That means they did a completely different serup for a Maristar and Prostar 190 because the hulls are different from a hydrodynamic standpoint. Would you use the same engine program for a big Cadillac and a small Chevy? NO? Why not? Because you don't need as much power in the same RPM range for each. Same with two different boats. Fuel delivery and spark advance are dependent on demand, not some manual from the engine manufacturer.

Cool...info...couldn't agree more...

JimN
05-13-2012, 11:51 PM
I'm not sure what years it pertained to, but there was an ECM recalibration done for some years.

SERVICE ALERT
Date: April 26, 2001
Advisory #SA2001-2
SUBJECT: TBI Hard Start When Hot

Under certain conditions, customers may experience a hard start when hot situation with their Throttle Body Fuel Injected (TBI) engines. These engines are equipped with the CEFI 3
Electronic Control Module (ECM). Generally, the engine will be able to start after opening the
throttle slightly and cranking the engine with the starter.

A calibration refinement has been made to remedy this hard start when hot condition. This
refined calibration went into production in November 2000, starting with engine serial number IC977546. Any engines with serial number IC977546 or higher will already have this
calibration refinement. This calibration opens the Idle Air Control Valve slightly during
cranking, which allows sufficient air to pass through the system to allow an easier start.

If you have a hard start when hot complaint from a customer, the new calibration can be
downloaded into the CEFI 3 controller. If you have the WinCal recalibration software and
cable at your dealership, contact Indmar and we will send you the updated TBI calibration.
The calibration is identified with KKSUM 13885, Engine ID 12, Prom ID 14604.

If you do not have the WinCal software, you can remove the ECM from the boat and send it
to Indmar for recalibration. We will recalibrate the ECM the same day we receive it and return it to you via the same means used to ship it to us. Send the ECM to:

Indmar
ECM Recalibration Services
5400 Old Millington Rd.
Millington, TN 38053

Make sure to tag the ECM with your dealership name and the serial number of the engine
when you send the ECM in for recalibration.

That was because Rochester changed the throttle plate after MC/Indmar did the calibrations that were chosen for production models (they deleted the air bleed holes because they wanted to save a machining operation, thus money). I remember having to do a recal on one of these and when I called Alan, he told me immediately what caused this and why. He e-mailed the current programs to the other store, I had the laptop by 2PM and it took about 5 minutes to verify the issue and do the recal. It wasn't a fault with the ECM, sensors, engine or anything else- it was a manufacturer that decided to change something without telling anyone about it that caused this.

FYI- ALL dealers are supposed to do recals when they're needed. Any dealer that doesn't is being completely irresponsible and, unless the customer has moved and doesn't respond to messages, it shouldn't be very hard.

BTW- it was only the earliest 2001 releases that had a problem. Anyone who had a boat with this problem and didn't report it either was clueless, an idiot or didn't know/care. It was very obvious that it was a problem but I guess I can see how someone would avoid going back when they could just crack the throttle a bit to start it, especially if they didn't have a dealer nearby.

mikeg205
05-13-2012, 11:55 PM
Love this forum...boats are cool... MC's are really cool...and it's great to read about all this stuff.

JimN
05-13-2012, 11:56 PM
I'm not sure what years it pertained to, but there was an ECM recalibration done for some years.

SERVICE ALERT
Date: April 26, 2001
Advisory #SA2001-2
SUBJECT: TBI Hard Start When Hot

Under certain conditions, customers may experience a hard start when hot situation with their Throttle Body Fuel Injected (TBI) engines. These engines are equipped with the CEFI 3
Electronic Control Module (ECM). Generally, the engine will be able to start after opening the
throttle slightly and cranking the engine with the starter.

A calibration refinement has been made to remedy this hard start when hot condition. This
refined calibration went into production in November 2000, starting with engine serial number IC977546. Any engines with serial number IC977546 or higher will already have this
calibration refinement. This calibration opens the Idle Air Control Valve slightly during
cranking, which allows sufficient air to pass through the system to allow an easier start.

If you have a hard start when hot complaint from a customer, the new calibration can be
downloaded into the CEFI 3 controller. If you have the WinCal recalibration software and
cable at your dealership, contact Indmar and we will send you the updated TBI calibration.
The calibration is identified with KKSUM 13885, Engine ID 12, Prom ID 14604.

If you do not have the WinCal software, you can remove the ECM from the boat and send it
to Indmar for recalibration. We will recalibrate the ECM the same day we receive it and return it to you via the same means used to ship it to us. Send the ECM to:

Indmar
ECM Recalibration Services
5400 Old Millington Rd.
Millington, TN 38053

Make sure to tag the ECM with your dealership name and the serial number of the engine
when you send the ECM in for recalibration.

You're not Monty from Indmar, are you?

Masterfull
05-14-2012, 12:29 AM
Just my two cents...I have seen this problem caused by a bad or dirty IAC valve.. the IAC or Idle Air Control Valve regulates the air flow past the throttle plate in the thottle body at an idle. I have seen instances where, "when hot" they failed to operate properly, causing problems such as you have discribed.. Your problem could be caused by many different things but figured I would put this out there.... Good Luck!!

JimN
05-14-2012, 12:53 AM
Just my two cents...I have seen this problem caused by a bad or dirty IAC valve.. the IAC or Idle Air Control Valve regulates the air flow past the throttle plate in the thottle body at an idle. I have seen instances where, "when hot" they failed to operate properly, causing problems such as you have discribed.. Your problem could be caused by many different things but figured I would put this out there.... Good Luck!!

But this recall was specifically for the throttle plate hole deletion. I was a MC tech at the time.

BTW- the IAC opens and closes more on hard acceleration and deceleration, respectively. This is called the "IAC follower" function.

Table Rocker
05-14-2012, 01:12 AM
You're not Monty from Indmar, are you?No, Sean from Fayetteville!

I was cleaning out my work laptop last week, deleting old files and found that document in the Downloads folder. I don't have TBI and I don't know why I had the file. I'm sure it was on TeamTalk somewhere. Anyway, this thread seemed to be a good place to give it back. I didn't know if it applied here, but it might help somebody who is searching for a cure.

BTW, thanks for all the info on here. I always seem to learn things the hard way and it's nice to have a little inside info from time to time. We could use a little help over here: http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=45389

cmarty123
05-14-2012, 01:34 PM
So I called Indmar this am and we talked about the above advisory. It is definitely for later model boats than the 94-95 years we are discussing. He looked up service alerts for my engine # (943038) and said that there weren't any relating to "hard start when hot" conditions and indicated there may be something else wrong other than the programming in the ECM.

He suggested I take it to the dealer. I informed him that the only thing my dealer wants to do for me, with a boat this age, is to sell me a new boat.

At this point, and after changing the IAC valve out, I still think it's some kind of programming issue. It runs fine when you remove the thermostat although I'm sure she burns signifcantly more fuel...

JimN
05-14-2012, 03:15 PM
So I called Indmar this am and we talked about the above advisory. It is definitely for later model boats than the 94-95 years we are discussing. He looked up service alerts for my engine # (943038) and said that there weren't any relating to "hard start when hot" conditions and indicated there may be something else wrong other than the programming in the ECM.

He suggested I take it to the dealer. I informed him that the only thing my dealer wants to do for me, with a boat this age, is to sell me a new boat.

At this point, and after changing the IAC valve out, I still think it's some kind of programming issue. It runs fine when you remove the thermostat although I'm sure she burns signifcantly more fuel...

Before changing any other parts, make sure the ones you have are actually bad.

Remove the flame arrester and have someone turn the key ON, watching the IAC pintle. If it doesn't move, have them turn the key OFF, again watching the pintle. If it doesn't move in either case, you'll need to remove the plug from the IAC and measure voltage on the blue and green pairs, separately. You should see voltage on one pair when the ECM tries to open it and voltage on the other pair when it tries to close it. If you don't see any voltage, the ECM's IAC driver may be bad and the ECM will need replacement because it's not practical to repair it (and opening it messes with the water-proofing).

If you see the IAC pintle move in both directions, start the engine and open the throttle quickly- you should see the pintle move out and once the RPM has stabilized, it should close a bit. When you shut the engine off, the pintle should close completely, then open a bit. If it doesn't do this, I would recommend taking it to a dealer with a diagnostic computer, so they can run diagnostics and function the IAC (this can be done with the Tech1 diagnostic computer and, I assume, with Diacomp, etc).

If the IAC works properly, check the ECT, as I posted before. If you do hook it up for diagnostics, and I don't mean plug a little scanner into the ALDL, check the TPS and MAP sensor readings. Also, look at the voltage- if you see lower voltage on the screen than what the dash gauge shows, you have a bad ground and that can make all kinds of things go wrong.

gr82bgreen
05-14-2012, 03:40 PM
I have a '94 Maristar that I bought in the fall. It has the 350 with TBI. It had a problem running and a mechanic said it needed a new fuel pump, filter. He fixed that this winter and it runs amazing now. However starting was and still is a problem. Cold starts are strong. Turn the key, let the fuel pump prime, and it fires right up, after the engine has reached temp and I shut it off, if I let it sit for more than a min or two it does not want to start. I can force it to start by giving it some throttle but it will run terrible and smoke, eventually it will catch and run and after it settles down will continue to run fine, until I shut it off again. Any advice would be much appreciated!

I have a 95 200 vrs. I had exact same symptoms as you. After much grief and upon the advise of an above poster I checked the thermostat. It was a 160. I installed the 140 and it ran perfect all last summer.

JimN
05-14-2012, 04:00 PM
I have a 95 200 vrs. I had exact same symptoms as you. After much grief and upon the advise of an above poster I checked the thermostat. It was a 160. I installed the 140 and it ran perfect all last summer.

That 20 degrees really shouldn't have made a huge difference. In warmer water, the thermostat will stay open more and it will act almost like it's not even there. In cold water, it would keep the engine at a less constant temperature. Could it be that the old one was in backward? I would check the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor.

ahhudgins
05-14-2012, 09:40 PM
That 20 degrees really shouldn't have made a huge difference. In warmer water, the thermostat will stay open more and it will act almost like it's not even there. In cold water, it would keep the engine at a less constant temperature. Could it be that the old one was in backward? I would check the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor.

I put the 160 degree stat in my 200VRS and it ran great (I thought) for almost a month, then I had the hard starting issue when warm. My engine ran at the exact temperature of whichever stat I used and I checked it with an infrared thermometer. I finally realized that it became harder to start when I shut the engine down for more than a few minutes when I was teaching kids to ski. I put the key in the “run” position to check my fuel pump, and that’s when I realized my engine temp was at 180 degrees. The engine soak added another 20 degrees above the 160 degree stat. The engine ran and started great as long as I didn’t shut it off for 3 or 4 minutes. No problems with the 142 stat.:D

JimN
05-14-2012, 10:28 PM
I put the 160 degree stat in my 200VRS and it ran great (I thought) for almost a month, then I had the hard starting issue when warm. My engine ran at the exact temperature of whichever stat I used and I checked it with an infrared thermometer. I finally realized that it became harder to start when I shut the engine down for more than a few minutes when I was teaching kids to ski. I put the key in the “run” position to check my fuel pump, and that’s when I realized my engine temp was at 180 degrees. The engine soak added another 20 degrees above the 160 degree stat. The engine ran and started great as long as I didn’t shut it off for 3 or 4 minutes. No problems with the 142 stat.:D

The easy way to check for a hot start problem is to crack the throttle a bit- if it starts, it's too rich. However, 180 at the gauge can mean 200+ in the rest of the engine and THAT can cause the ECM to think it's overheated. The Desert SW, with its 100+ degree temperatures caused the people who did the initial setups/calibration to go to AZ for testing and they found that using a 180 degree t-stat helped. It would stay open, water would circulate and the engine would stay cooler while it sat. Those air temperatures would cause the engine to heat soak to over 210 degrees and that's definitely in overheat territory.

mikeg205
05-14-2012, 10:50 PM
I put the 160 degree stat in my 200VRS and it ran great (I thought) for almost a month, then I had the hard starting issue when warm. My engine ran at the exact temperature of whichever stat I used and I checked it with an infrared thermometer. I finally realized that it became harder to start when I shut the engine down for more than a few minutes when I was teaching kids to ski. I put the key in the “run” position to check my fuel pump, and that’s when I realized my engine temp was at 180 degrees. The engine soak added another 20 degrees above the 160 degree stat. The engine ran and started great as long as I didn’t shut it off for 3 or 4 minutes. No problems with the 142 stat.:D

Okay...educate me... no matter what thermostat the engine ran at 160. You turn it off and it spikes to 180...okay I get the heat soak. So, prior to the moment you turn off the motor water is circulating past the thermostat either 143 or 160 based on 160 operating temp. Then the moment you turn off motor water stops circulating residual internal temp not dissipated and temperature jumps. So how can you have an operating temp of 160 with a 143 thermostat. What this indicates to me is the ECT sensor is not reading correctly - or am I way off base.

cmarty123
05-14-2012, 11:26 PM
Great suggestions. Thanks. I'll have to play with this weekend and see if I find anything out.

JimN
05-15-2012, 09:29 AM
Okay...educate me... no matter what thermostat the engine ran at 160. You turn it off and it spikes to 180...okay I get the heat soak. So, prior to the moment you turn off the motor water is circulating past the thermostat either 143 or 160 based on 160 operating temp. Then the moment you turn off motor water stops circulating residual internal temp not dissipated and temperature jumps. So how can you have an operating temp of 160 with a 143 thermostat. What this indicates to me is the ECT sensor is not reading correctly - or am I way off base.

But that could just be the sender that's connected to the gauge- the one that connects to the ECM is separate. If it runs badly, I would be more concerned about blockage in the passages near the sender that's connected to the ECM. I have seen chunks of impeller vane stuck in the small hole in the thermostat housing and in the impeller when that wasn't changed in a long time and the temperature tends to read lower than normal.

mikeg205
05-15-2012, 10:18 AM
But that could just be the sender that's connected to the gauge- the one that connects to the ECM is separate. If it runs badly, I would be more concerned about blockage in the passages near the sender that's connected to the ECM. I have seen chunks of impeller vane stuck in the small hole in the thermostat housing and in the impeller when that wasn't changed in a long time and the temperature tends to read lower than normal.

Thanks JimN... I don't have any issues...but love the knowledge.

ahhudgins
05-15-2012, 04:06 PM
Okay...educate me... no matter what thermostat the engine ran at 160. You turn it off and it spikes to 180...okay I get the heat soak. So, prior to the moment you turn off the motor water is circulating past the thermostat either 143 or 160 based on 160 operating temp. Then the moment you turn off motor water stops circulating residual internal temp not dissipated and temperature jumps. So how can you have an operating temp of 160 with a 143 thermostat. What this indicates to me is the ECT sensor is not reading correctly - or am I way off base.

You just misread my post. I said "My engine ran at the exact temperature of whichever stat I used.." Simply put, if I used the 142 stat my engine ran at 142 degrees. If I used the 160 stat, it ran at 160 degrees. I knew my gauge was correct but I verified it with the infrared gun. Sorry for the mix up.

mikeg205
05-15-2012, 11:56 PM
You just misread my post. I said "My engine ran at the exact temperature of whichever stat I used.." Simply put, if I used the 142 stat my engine ran at 142 degrees. If I used the 160 stat, it ran at 160 degrees. I knew my gauge was correct but I verified it with the infrared gun. Sorry for the mix up.

no prob...thanks... I changed my stat..to a 160 this year on recommendation by skidim.com...had one starting issue last friday...so absorbing this info...thanks ah..

ahhudgins
05-16-2012, 02:42 PM
no prob...thanks... I changed my stat..to a 160 this year on recommendation by skidim.com...had one starting issue last friday...so absorbing this info...thanks ah..

My boat is a 95 TBI but it's a Maristar 200VRS. I had no problems running the 160 degree stat for a few months because I had all of my usual skiers in the boat. We could change skiers in just a minute or two so all was good. It wasn't until the 4th of July when I had a boat full of newbies that I had the problems...naturally. It took longer to switch kids on the boom and give them instructions, and that's when the problems started. It took me several weekends to figure out it was a temperature problem. IIRC, it wouldn't restart until the engine temperature was back down below 170.

JimN
05-16-2012, 03:16 PM
My boat is a 95 TBI but it's a Maristar 200VRS. I had no problems running the 160 degree stat for a few months because I had all of my usual skiers in the boat. We could change skiers in just a minute or two so all was good. It wasn't until the 4th of July when I had a boat full of newbies that I had the problems...naturally. It took longer to switch kids on the boom and give them instructions, and that's when the problems started. It took me several weekends to figure out it was a temperature problem. IIRC, it wouldn't restart until the engine temperature was back down below 170.

Did you crack the throttle when it wouldn't start? That should have caused it to start. If it didn't want to start, regardless of opening the throttle, that's a different problem. Even if it's overheated badly, it should start- it will run like crap, but it will start although you would still need to crack the throttle in that case.

mikeg205
05-28-2012, 07:30 PM
Ok.. had another starting issue when heat soak took engine temp to 170. So I opened the dog house let it cool below 160. When the temp dropped below 160 fired right up. Going to drop in a 143 t-stat like the original plus what user manual calls out. At 170 fuel injectors send less fuel thru injectors (visual inspections)... after cool down more fuel is sent by injectors motor fires right up.

I will see what happens when when I switch t-stat and report back - t-stat will be installed this week and I will be on the water in a few days and see.

JimN
05-28-2012, 07:36 PM
Ok.. had another starting issue when heat soak took engine temp to 170. So I opened the dog house let it cool below 160. When the temp dropped below 160 fired right up. Going to drop in a 143 t-stat like the original plus what user manual calls out. At 170 fuel injectors send less fuel thru injectors (visual inspections)... after cool down more fuel is sent by injectors motor fires right up.

I will see what happens when when I switch t-stat and report back - t-stat will be installed this week and I will be on the water in a few days and see.

It will still heat-soak with a 143° thermostat. The difference is that it will run less efficiently than with the 160° t-stat. Heat soak is due to the engine not being able to assume ambient temperature. Turn the blower on when it's sitting or prop the motor cover open a bit so it can get some fresh air. THAT'S how you can avoid this problem. BTW- it's the ECM that tells the injectors when to fire and when to just sit there and look pretty. If it starts and smooths out in less than a minute, you should be fine. If it takes longer, check the oil cooler and impeller.

mikeg205
05-28-2012, 09:11 PM
Thanks JimN... It does start after I open the dog house and pull the plastic cowling that covers the ecm and spark arrestor...then it starts after some hard spinning. I get the heat soak issue... trans oil cooler clear...I ski on a muddy river and back flush all the time.... no running problems just current and a hard untimely start can put the boat and members into a bad position on illinois river.

It takes about 5 minutes with dog house open and blower running to get the engine to finally spin over...once it starts it runs like normal..

Actually like the way it runs with the 160 t-stat...but the rough start puts me a little out of control of the boat - which could put my passengers in danger... barges on my river (illinois river near morris illinois)

Impeller new...oil cooler always checked and cleaned and engine temp never exceeds 170.

After reading up on ethanol - the heat soak up to 170 could be the issue ethanol vaporizes at 172 degrees... and MC recommends non ethanol fuels..bet I would not have an issue with straight 89+ octane non-e85 gas...

So for the safety of my passengers and boat I have to try the 143 t-stat... unless there's an alternate solution... I did notice a bit better performance with the 160 t-stat...

regarding heat soak... what is the average heat soak change in temp from the t-stat rating...10 degrees?...or more..??

JimN
05-28-2012, 09:50 PM
Thanks JimN... It does start after I open the dog house and pull the plastic cowling that covers the ecm and spark arrestor...then it starts after some hard spinning. I get the heat soak issue... trans oil cooler clear...I ski on a muddy river and back flush all the time.... no running problems just current and a hard untimely start can put the boat and members into a bad position on illinois river.

It takes about 5 minutes with dog house open and blower running to get the engine to finally spin over...once it starts it runs like normal..

Actually like the way it runs with the 160 t-stat...but the rough start puts me a little out of control of the boat - which could put my passengers in danger... barges on my river (illinois river near morris illinois)

Impeller new...oil cooler always checked and cleaned and engine temp never exceeds 170.

After reading up on ethanol - the heat soak up to 170 could be the issue ethanol vaporizes at 172 degrees... and MC recommends non ethanol fuels..bet I would not have an issue with straight 89+ octane non-e85 gas...

So for the safety of my passengers and boat I have to try the 143 t-stat... unless there's an alternate solution... I did notice a bit better performance with the 160 t-stat...

regarding heat soak... what is the average heat soak change in temp from the t-stat rating...10 degrees?...or more..??

If you want to avoid heat soak, idle for a longer time before shutting it off. If you run it hard, it will raise the temperature of the block and heads (in-cylinder temperatures can reach over 1000°) and this needs to be dissipated by the cooling water. Letting it idle longer lowers the average temperate of the engine and keeps it from having the problem. If the fuel is togglng between the injectors, it means the ECM has registered an overheat. Not a problem if it's from heat soak, though. Heat soak can raise the coolant temperature above 210°.

Have you ever opened the throttle when it has a hard time starting? Try that.

mikeg205
05-28-2012, 10:44 PM
ECT sending a 170-172ish(analog dial) when hard start. Should I take off the plastic cover off the engine that covers the ECU, heat sensors..etc...to keep from hot air building up under it when I cut the engine off? Seems like that thing could prevent the heat sinks on the ecu from getting any air flow when sitting with engine off.

It looks cool - I am glad I have it... (1995 and I have all the original parts)

The ECU is at the high point in the dog house...makes sense...but the hottest air will collect in the same area as well...with blower - cooler air will cycle under engine and...Too bad...no blower or air flow designed in at top of motor.

JimN
05-28-2012, 11:37 PM
ECT sending a 170-172ish(analog dial) when hard start. Should I take off the plastic cover off the engine that covers the ECU, heat sensors..etc...to keep from hot air building up under it when I cut the engine off? Seems like that thing could prevent the heat sinks on the ecu from getting any air flow when sitting with engine off.

It looks cool - I am glad I have it... (1995 and I have all the original parts)

The ECU is at the high point in the dog house...makes sense...but the hottest air will collect in the same area as well...with blower - cooler air will cycle under engine and...Too bad...no blower or air flow designed in at top of motor.

It's not the ECM that's hot- it's the coolant temperature sensor that reports to it and that's not the one-wire sender that the gauge gets it's ground reference from. The ECM needs to be kept cool, sure, but it's because it's carrying about 30A through it and the fins on top are the heat sink.

You could always add a blower to clear out the hot air at the higher areas of the engine compartment. It's cheap and easy to do. Just place the supply hose at the top and blow it out one of the vents.

Is this a new problem or has it always done it?

mikeg205
05-28-2012, 11:44 PM
It's not the ECM that's hot- it's the coolant temperature sensor that reports to it and that's not the one-wire sender that the gauge gets it's ground reference from. The ECM needs to be kept cool, sure, but it's because it's carrying about 30A through it and the fins on top are the heat sink.

You could always add a blower to clear out the hot air at the higher areas of the engine compartment. It's cheap and easy to do. Just place the supply hose at the top and blow it out one of the vents.

Is this a new problem or has it always done it?

New problem and new t-stat - new temp...always had a 143 in before...that's why I want to try the 143 and see if it goes away. Runs excellent otherwise...oh well.

mikeg205
06-07-2012, 11:43 PM
Okay update...put 143 t-stat back in and took the '95 205 out today...ran her for my 4 solid slalom free ski sets...temp show about 160 on the gauge...but after being off for 5-6 mins...the temp never hit 170...turned the key and she fired right up.

Thanks OP and JimN for all the direction...

Montaruli
07-30-2012, 03:10 PM
I've got a 93 PS 205 with an indmar 351 that's carbureted. With the same symptoms. Is it likely that it is the same problem? I've been running premium (91-92 octane) in her but have only had it a few weeks. Is this the fuel that should be run?


93 ProStar 205

JimN
07-30-2012, 03:17 PM
I've got a 93 PS 205 with an indmar 351 that's carbureted. With the same symptoms. Is it likely that it is the same problem? I've been running premium (91-92 octane) in her but have only had it a few weeks. Is this the fuel that should be run?


93 ProStar 205

You won't hurt anything with 91-92 octane but it should be fine with 89 if your ait isn't really hot and dry or you don't have a high compression engine, If the engine has carbon deposits, those create hot spots and you can have "dieseling", but that's rare when the fuel mixture is as typically rich as these are and the operating temperature is run lower, also like these are.