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Diver14
05-03-2012, 07:58 AM
Just got my new 2012 x25 and a few concerns that I am hoping you guys can help me sort out. The first is Perfect Pass. This is the mastercraft wakeboard edition that runs strictly off of Paddle Wheel. At first it was overshooting like crazy and I fixed that with the CS setting but now it will stop just before the number then ease up to it within a few seconds then fall back down by 1 mile an hour. It will take several seconds (10 to 15) to gain back half of that then it will sometimes just stop their. So if its set to 22mph it will settle at 21.5 a lot of times. The problem is its not every time and eventually it does come up but it can take several minutes. Its almost like 21.5 is what I have it set at so it will flucuate around that number. .5 mph may not seem like much but when wake boarding it can make a huge difference and with the flucuation it can be .7 or .8. Has anyone experienced this and if so how did you fix it. Even if I push the arrow up to increase speed from 22 to 22.5 it takes a long time for that adjustment to be made and it still ends up being behind. Initially I though it was going to be easy to fix because the KDW was set to 50 from the factory. I adjusted this as high as I could and this helped some but its still not doing what it should. I had zero off on my last boat and opted for paddle wheel perfect pass on this one because I ride in current and a constantly having to adjust the speed when I turn around and the paddle wheel fixes that issue. Seems that it comes with its own issues though.

willyt
05-03-2012, 10:58 AM
by no means am i a perfect pass expert (i just got it myself) but i think the other setting you'd want to pay attention to is the NN setting - the filtering setting. PP recommends that as your ballast increases you have to set your KDW higher and NN lower. I would try that, and if its still settling around 21.5 i would try and do some calibration to the unit with GPS

JLowder
05-03-2012, 01:35 PM
Just got my new 2012 x25 and a few concerns that I am hoping you guys can help me sort out. The first is Perfect Pass. This is the mastercraft wakeboard edition that runs strictly off of Paddle Wheel. At first it was overshooting like crazy and I fixed that with the CS setting but now it will stop just before the number then ease up to it within a few seconds then fall back down by 1 mile an hour. It will take several seconds (10 to 15) to gain back half of that then it will sometimes just stop their. So if its set to 22mph it will settle at 21.5 a lot of times. The problem is its not every time and eventually it does come up but it can take several minutes. Its almost like 21.5 is what I have it set at so it will flucuate around that number. .5 mph may not seem like much but when wake boarding it can make a huge difference and with the flucuation it can be .7 or .8. Has anyone experienced this and if so how did you fix it. Even if I push the arrow up to increase speed from 22 to 22.5 it takes a long time for that adjustment to be made and it still ends up being behind. Initially I though it was going to be easy to fix because the KDW was set to 50 from the factory. I adjusted this as high as I could and this helped some but its still not doing what it should. I had zero off on my last boat and opted for paddle wheel perfect pass on this one because I ride in current and a constantly having to adjust the speed when I turn around and the paddle wheel fixes that issue. Seems that it comes with its own issues though.

I have the exact same problem on my 2011 X-45. Anxious for someone to chime in who has a solution.

MattsCraft
05-03-2012, 03:47 PM
Mine is pretty much as you stated. I have my KDW all the way up, have not tried lowering the NN setting. My default WB speed is 20 MPH and then I bump it from there depending on rider pref. and conditions. It kicks in at about 18 MPH and creeps up from there. It will kick in later depending on how aggressive you are on the throttle out of the hole. Current does have an effect on it.

This is my first boat with any type of cruise, so for me I think it is the bomb, I don't think a paddle wheel will ever hold like the GPS versions. With a weighted boat, I would say my speed flucuation is at least 1 MPH plus minus depending on turning and the rider postion etc. I can hold it closer manually, but boy what a pain that is.

JLowder
05-03-2012, 04:51 PM
Mine is pretty much as you stated. I have my KDW all the way up, have not tried lowering the NN setting. My default WB speed is 20 MPH and then I bump it from there depending on rider pref. and conditions. It kicks in at about 18 MPH and creeps up from there. It will kick in later depending on how aggressive you are on the throttle out of the hole. Current does have an effect on it.

This is my first boat with any type of cruise, so for me I think it is the bomb, I don't think a paddle wheel will ever hold like the GPS versions. With a weighted boat, I would say my speed flucuation is at least 1 MPH plus minus depending on turning and the rider postion etc. I can hold it closer manually, but boy what a pain that is.

I had a paddle wheel Perfect Pass on my 2003 Larson stern drive. It worked great. I have not been real happy with what I have now in regards to speed control. Hoping someone reads this and can post what settings work best.

MattsCraft
05-03-2012, 04:59 PM
Here is the description from the '08-'09 Manual and attached. For the life of me, I tried adding a rider, can't get it to work, not a big deal, I only use 3 settings and bump from there anyway. (WB, Surf & Slalom)

KDW (Throttle Pull Rate) KDW can be changed using up or down keys. The higher the value, the more aggressive the control. Heavy boats may need higher values. Factory setting is about 180. Normal range is 120 200.
NN (Paddle Wheel Filter Factor) NN should be set at 50. The higher the value the more filtering is done. If you feel you boat is surging a little, raise value by 20 or 30.
(Normal range is 50 100).
CS (Control Setting) There is an adjustable control setting (CS), which primarily affects engagement in Wakeboard Mode. 750 is recommended, however, if you feel your boat "overshoots" the target speed too much, you can lower the value a little. Adjustments of 20 at a time is recommended. (Range is 650 - 750).

Diver14
05-03-2012, 05:21 PM
Here is the description from the '08-'09 Manual and attached. For the life of me, I tried adding a rider, can't get it to work, not a big deal, I only use 3 settings and bump from there anyway. (WB, Surf & Slalom)

KDW (Throttle Pull Rate) KDW can be changed using up or down keys. The higher the value, the more aggressive the control. Heavy boats may need higher values. Factory setting is about 180. Normal range is 120 200.
NN (Paddle Wheel Filter Factor) NN should be set at 50. The higher the value the more filtering is done. If you feel you boat is surging a little, raise value by 20 or 30.
(Normal range is 50 100).
CS (Control Setting) There is an adjustable control setting (CS), which primarily affects engagement in Wakeboard Mode. 750 is recommended, however, if you feel your boat "overshoots" the target speed too much, you can lower the value a little. Adjustments of 20 at a time is recommended. (Range is 650 - 750).


That is what I used to adjust and it helped some. I called perfect Pass and apparently the software that is used in the new mastercraft boats is actually not theirs. They sold the code to mastercraft and then mastercraft used a company called Medallion instrumentation to make adjustments and changes. Unfortunatly medallion is not very accessble. I called three times today with no luck. I spoke with a person at Perfect Pass and they said they have received a great deal of people calling in with similiar issues with the new mastercrafts and since they dont know what programming changes have been made its tough for them to give any input.

I had an older Moomba with Perfect pass and didnt have any of these issues so I know Perfect Pass can work much better than it currently does. I will update the thread as I get more information for thost dealing with the same issue. Strange thing is I posted about this prior to getting the boat with Perfect Pass asking if anyone was experiencing any issues and no one seemed to have any issues. I probably would have gone with Zero Off.

JLowder
05-03-2012, 06:19 PM
That is what I used to adjust and it helped some. I called perfect Pass and apparently the software that is used in the new mastercraft boats is actually not theirs. They sold the code to mastercraft and then mastercraft used a company called Medallion instrumentation to make adjustments and changes. Unfortunatly medallion is not very accessble. I called three times today with no luck. I spoke with a person at Perfect Pass and they said they have received a great deal of people calling in with similiar issues with the new mastercrafts and since they dont know what programming changes have been made its tough for them to give any input.

I had an older Moomba with Perfect pass and didnt have any of these issues so I know Perfect Pass can work much better than it currently does. I will update the thread as I get more information for thost dealing with the same issue. Strange thing is I posted about this prior to getting the boat with Perfect Pass asking if anyone was experiencing any issues and no one seemed to have any issues. I probably would have gone with Zero Off.

I just got the boat about 3 weeks ago and based on the responses, there are only 3 people with a problem... Can you PM me the medallian number. I will call them tomorrow too. Will also call perfect pass. Maybe someone from Mastercraft will read this and respond with some suggestions. (Hint hint.)
Yes. I already spoke to my dealer. They told me I wasnt giving the boat enough throttle... It's clear they didn't bother to even listen to what I said.

bjames
05-04-2012, 03:45 PM
This all sounds very famillier. I had nothing but issues with my 2011 X25 PP. It would constantly overshoot, undershoot as well as reacting very slow to input commands. I also had an issue with the throttle arm not being locked out as it should (for increasing speed). One time I had the PP set at 10.5mph and when i hit a large roller, the force moved the throttle down to full speed and disengaged the PP and nearly ripped thrope out of the surfers hands. Fixed under warranty. but still always had issues with the PP.

One question I do have is can PP be replaced by Zero off relatively easily?

Diver14
05-04-2012, 08:13 PM
The website for medallion is http://medallionis.com and their numbers are under the contact tab. I did some more playing around with it today and got it working pretty good adjusting the CS setting. I have not messed with it at wake surfing speeds much though so I cant comment on that. I will say that the wake surfing wake on this is sick. For those interested I ended up with all the factory full plus a 750 in the rear port locker as full as it could be and a 750 on the port side seat. Was real meaty, very long, and HUGE! I know its not normal to fill all the ballast but this really beefed up the wave. I have a friend who is really into surfing and he has rode behind sacked out Centurion's, Super Air 230s and several others and said this was the best surf wake he had every been on. The PP was a hassle but was able to get it cleaned up enough to have some fun. Wake board wake is pretty sick as well. A few issues to work out but overall been pretty satisfied. I can honestly say at this point that this boat is way better than my 2011 SAN 230. Better wake, better quality, better in the chop, and better thought out for salt water. (I have the SS edition). I will try and post some pics of the new boat sometime. been to busy using it to take pictures :)...

Diver14
05-04-2012, 08:15 PM
One question I do have is can PP be replaced by Zero off relatively easily?

My dealer says its an easy upgrade but If I can keep from going to it I would like to. For me the current is very strong and although the paddle wheel doesnt filter it completely out it still way less adjusting than with GPS based. It always took several runs to get the speed changed dialed in with Zero off but the PP has compensated pretty well for the current as a by product of reading speed across water.