PDA

View Full Version : Oil recommendations


dgilbreath
05-01-2012, 11:07 PM
I have a 86 ProStar w/ a 351C Inmar pretty much still original that I have always used a 10w or 5w 30 oil. My local marine suggested that I use 15w 40. Thoughts?

catamount
05-01-2012, 11:10 PM
Oh no... not an oil thread!

I put Shell Rotella T in almost everything I own, including my MC. With that said, I will not comment on anyone elses choice of oil, weights, friction modifiers, ratings, synthetic or not.

/slowly backs out of thread.

http://r2.cygnuspub.com/files/cygnus/image/FCP/2009/JAN/495x330/rotellatsynthetic5w40_10091548.jpg

millpondkid
05-01-2012, 11:25 PM
Rotella is a great product.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-02-2012, 12:14 AM
I have a 86 ProStar w/ a 351C Inmar pretty much still original that I have always used a 10w or 5w 30 oil. My local marine suggested that I use 15w 40. Thoughts?

Back then yes they used 30w, but going to a 15w40 for its shear strength is better than the other. just make sure what ever oil (conventional, syn blend, or full synthic or favorite brand)you get has enough ZDDP (anti-wear agents)to help protect your flat tappet camshaft and other engine internals, most auto formulas since 2006 reduced ZDDP because it was damaging catalytic converters, a moot point on your engine but your engine still needs ZDDP.

east tx skier
05-02-2012, 12:15 AM
Your 351 has a flat tappet cam. You need an oil with adequate levels of ZDDP. Most oils that once were fine have not been fine for the last several years.

My 351 PCM GT40 gets Valvoline VR-1 20W50. They also have a straight 30 and 40 weight in the VR1. Other options that, last time I checked had more than 1,200 ppm ZDDP are certain varieties of Royal Purple, Chevron Delo, and Mobil 1. Last time I looked, Rotella had dropped the ZDDP levels in its oils. For the later boats with the roller cams, I'd go Rotella without a second thought. But not for the Fords and non-vortec Chevys.

Also, if you use synthetic, don't extend the oil change intervals beyond the recommended 50 hours or seasonal as a result. Regular old Dino oil is just fine.

east tx skier
05-02-2012, 12:16 AM
Back then yes they used 30w, but going to a 15w40 for its shear strength is better than the other. just make sure what ever oil (conventional, syn blend, or full synthic or favorite brand)you get has enough ZDDP (anti-wear agents)to help protect your flat tappet camshaft and other engine internals, most auto formulas since 2006 reduced ZDDP because it was damaging catalytic converters, a moot point on your engine but your engine still needs ZDDP.

I was too slow.

Kyle
05-02-2012, 01:26 AM
I use 15w40 in my new engine. I also use Rotella T

I like rotella because at Wall Mart you can get it pretty cheap.

I used to use castrol 15w40 but rotella has more zinc and additives so I use either oil. I prefer rotella just because it is cheaper.

Valvoline, mobil 1, rotella, castrol, will be fine oils. There really is no reason to beat down oil. Try to get one with the higher zinc additives and run the engine.

There are a lot of people who are married to one brand of oil and will not consider any other option. Here is a good example. There are a LOT of people who are married to mobil 1 full synthetic. Well I had to replace a cam in my buddies boat that worn out with less than 500 hrs and he ran Mobil 1 full synthetic expensive stuff every oil change.

15w40 will be fine for your engine. There is no need for synthetic oil either.




I look at it like this. You can go to any car dealership and their "House" oil can be Pennzoil or castrol etc. 99% of the time the dealer just gets the best price on bulk oil and that is what they use. Boat dealers are the same. I would be willing to bet that the bulk oil at your MC dealer is not Mobil 1 high end oil. It's bulk castrol, Pennzoil, valvoline non synthetic "House" oil. You are not spinning that engine 8k rpm or running 1000hp.


15w40 will be fine.

east tx skier
05-02-2012, 09:51 AM
Kyle, how many ppm of ZDDP does the Rotella have currently?

CantRepeat
05-02-2012, 10:07 AM
Kyle, how many ppm of ZDDP does the Rotella have currently?

According to this test they have over 1200 ppm

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/mklinuxdude/VOA/e64704-001.gif

east tx skier
05-02-2012, 10:24 AM
Thanks, Tim, but that's a full synthetic 5W40. I have read a lot of conflicting stuff on the web. I have seen at least one email purportedly from a Shell engineer that they lowered it to 800 ppm in passenger vehicles and about 1,000 ppm in the diesels, but later raised the diesel oil (at least in the synthetic blend) back to 1,200 ppm.

If we can find something recent saying the mineral 15W40 Rotella is back up to spec, I'm all in. It's cheaper by half compared to Valvoline. But this information seems harder to find that I would expect.

JimN
05-02-2012, 10:25 AM
There are a lot of people who are married to one brand of oil and will not consider any other option. Here is a good example. There are a LOT of people who are married to mobil 1 full synthetic. Well I had to replace a cam in my buddies boat that worn out with less than 500 hrs and he ran Mobil 1 full synthetic expensive stuff every oil change.


Did the cam wear on the bearings or the cam lobes?

TRBenj
05-02-2012, 10:37 AM
Stick with high ZDDP oils with that flat tappet cam motor. IIRC, the Rotella-T 15w40 is around 1200/1100 ppm zinc/phos, which is ok. Valvoline VR1 20w50 and Mobil1 15w50 are better though (1300/1200ppm). Autozone has a VR1 sale about once a year it seems, which gets the price down to ~$3/qt. Walmart also carries the 5qt jugs of the 15w50, which I grab for ~$26.

east tx skier
05-02-2012, 10:53 AM
Stick with high ZDDP oils with that flat tappet cam motor. IIRC, the Rotella-T 15w40 is around 1200/1100 ppm zinc/phos, which is ok. Valvoline VR1 20w50 and Mobil1 15w50 are better though (1300/1200ppm). Autozone has a VR1 sale about once a year it seems, which gets the price down to ~$3/qt. Walmart also carries the 5qt jugs of the 15w50, which I grab for ~$26.

Thanks, Tim. Good information.

Fasteddie
05-02-2012, 11:37 AM
I've used Lubriplate Super GPO 15W-40 for a couple of years. Lots of ZDDP for the flat tappets. Costs $71.11/case shipped last time I ordered.

CantRepeat
05-02-2012, 11:49 AM
I've used Lubriplate Super GPO 15W-40 for a couple of years. Lots of ZDDP for the flat tappets. Costs $71.11/case shipped last time I ordered.

Where are you ordering from.

I know folks with flat tappet cams could always use more choices.

Doug,

I looked around for a more specific study but could not fine one. I'll look some more after lunch.

Fasteddie
05-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Order directly from Lubriplate.com they have an online store.

east tx skier
05-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Where are you ordering from.

I know folks with flat tappet cams could always use more choices.

Doug,

I looked around for a more specific study but could not fine one. I'll look some more after lunch.

I ran into the same thing. I think I found a Blackstone report someone posted on another forum that had the Zinc in the high 1,100 range and the Phosphorus in the high 800 range. But it was from 2009.

For me, $25 for an oil change is not that big of a deal since I'm only doing it once per year. So, I'll just stick with the VR1.

CantRepeat
05-02-2012, 12:38 PM
I ran into the same thing. I think I found a Blackstone report someone posted on another forum that had the Zinc in the high 1,100 range and the Phosphorus in the high 800 range. But it was from 2009.

For me, $25 for an oil change is not that big of a deal since I'm only doing it once per year. So, I'll just stick with the VR1.

Yup, that's the best solution for sure. It sure is cheaper then a cam and lifter rebuild.

willyt
05-02-2012, 12:44 PM
Dinosaur powered AND lubricated engines

Fasteddie
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Fasteddie46/Lubriplate.jpg

jhall0711
05-02-2012, 12:56 PM
ETS; I also run the Valvaline VR 1 20W 50 beacause I also had read somewhere that the ZDDP levels in Rotella had been lowed. Now for the life of me I cannot recall where I saw it myself. I know some other guys will run whatever oil they choose and then use a ZDDP additive.... (351 in 89 PS)

ted shred
05-02-2012, 01:07 PM
I use Amsoil 15/40 diesel marine oil. It is the older CI spec. I have used it for many years.I see that they now make a heavy ZDDP oil for muscle cars, maybe I will try it out next time I change oil.

east tx skier
05-02-2012, 01:27 PM
ETS; I also run the Valvaline VR 1 20W 50 beacause I also had read somewhere that the ZDDP levels in Rotella had been lowed. Now for the life of me I cannot recall where I saw it myself. I know some other guys will run whatever oil they choose and then use a ZDDP additive.... (351 in 89 PS)

There was a huge thread on CCFan a few years ago on the subject. That's where I first got wind of it. Just google "ZDDP" and you will get countless classic car, hotrod, and boat forums discussing it.

Link to thread (http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19533&title=zddpzinc)

Kyle
05-02-2012, 04:54 PM
Did the cam wear on the bearings or the cam lobes?

The cam lobe was bad. The weird thing was only 1 cam lobe was worn out and the lifter and push rod were visually in good shape. I did not check the torque on the rocker arm before taking the engine apart.

TRBenj
05-02-2012, 06:09 PM
The cam lobe was bad. The weird thing was only 1 cam lobe was worn out and the lifter and push rod were visually in good shape. I did not check the torque on the rocker arm before taking the engine apart.
What type of engine?

If flat tappet, a lot can go wrong besides using the wrong oil... thats just one thing thats easy to control. The quality of the heat treat on the cam and lifters, the quality of the cores themselves, both material wise and dimensionally come into play. Ive wiped a cam lobe before... and did everything by the book at break in. It sucks, but it wasnt the oil's fault.

If roller, then it was either a low quality part or a gross installation error. Certainly not oil related. Rollers are very tolerant of just about all oil types.

Kyle
05-02-2012, 06:14 PM
What type of engine?

If flat tappet, a lot can go wrong besides using the wrong oil... thats just one thing thats easy to control. The quality of the heat treat on the cam and lifters, the quality of the cores themselves, both material wise and dimensionally come into play. Ive wiped a cam lobe before... and did everything by the book at break in. It sucks, but it wasnt the oil's fault.

If roller, then it was either a low quality part or a gross installation error. Certainly not oil related. Rollers are very tolerant of just about all oil types.

It was a virgin 351 HO 285hp out of a '93 205. (Flat Tappet) factory engine

Mobil 1 full synthetic

I am not blaming the oil by any means. My point is that anything can happen with the different oils.

TRBenj
05-02-2012, 06:41 PM
What weight and grade of Mobil1? Theyre not all created equal.

The 15w50 has 1300/1200 ppm zinc/phos, as opposed to 900/800 ppm for the 5w30, for example.

Mobil1 product guide (http://www.mobil.com/usa-english/motoroil/files/mobil_1_product_guide.pdf)

learjet2230
05-02-2012, 10:41 PM
i'm a VR-1 20w50 user....1000 hrs and counting!

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-02-2012, 11:34 PM
What weight and grade of Mobil1? Theyre not all created equal.

The 15w50 has 1300/1200 ppm zinc/phos, as opposed to 900/800 ppm for the 5w30, for example.

Mobil1 product guide (http://www.mobil.com/usa-english/motoroil/files/mobil_1_product_guide.pdf)

I wish all oil companies would lay out a chart like mobil1 does, it would make research alot easier...

mikeg205
05-03-2012, 12:26 AM
i luv the oil thread... !!! :D:D:D

93Prostar190
05-03-2012, 07:40 AM
Loyal Mobil 1 and Rotella user over the years ....

Currently the Ford Expedition has it inside as does the MCX .... In different weight of course.

TRBenj
05-03-2012, 09:30 AM
Loyal Mobil 1 and Rotella user over the years ....

Currently the Ford Expedition has it inside as does the MCX .... In different weight of course.
Thats all well and good... but remember that your late model GM engine has a roller cam and is pretty insensitive to oil choice. Most true synthetics are pretty good these days in those types of motors.

Totally different ballgame with the flat tappets!

catamount
05-03-2012, 08:27 PM
Wow, I didn't expect to check back into this thread but the warnings about ZDDP and flat tappets have me thinking twice about dumping my usual Rotella T in there.

Guess I'm going to have to do more homework before my oil change.

Damn oil threads :(

east tx skier
05-03-2012, 08:32 PM
Worth reposting.

CCFAN ZDDP Thread (http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19533&title=zddpzinc)

millpondkid
05-03-2012, 11:40 PM
I think its funny how we worry so much about what oil we put in our boats but we don't think twice about sitting down and ordering a double bacon cheeseburger to stuff our belly. Just saying.

jhall0711
05-04-2012, 01:28 AM
I think its funny how we worry so much about what oil we put in our boats but we don't think twice about sitting down and ordering a double bacon cheeseburger to stuff our belly. Just saying.

Most of us care more about out boat arteries than our own....:)

93Prostar190
05-04-2012, 09:27 AM
I think its funny how we worry so much about what oil we put in our boats but we don't think twice about sitting down and ordering a double bacon cheeseburger to stuff our belly. Just saying.

I am not sure I agree (you make a great point) ... but I make sure to only use the finest wines and rums to fuel this .... this ....... well my old man body.

I would probably drink some Mobil1 if you tied a rope to me and made me paddle the boat.

:D

Thanks for the good info on the oil fellows .... always good to see an oil thread!