PDA

View Full Version : Oxidation Removal


BrianM
04-20-2012, 12:03 PM
Figured I would post up a couple of photos of yet another boat that I was able to bring back using my buffing method. The transom on this boat was really badly oxidized. Sides were just badly waters spotted.

The "how do I remove oxidation from my boat?" Gets asked a lot. I'll recap my method.

-3M Super Duty Compound on a Circular Polisher with a Wool Pad
-3M Finesse It II Polishing Compound on a Circular Polisher with an Orange Foam Pad
- Meguires Polish (Step 2 of their 3 step system) with an Orbital and a White Foam Pad
-Meguires Carnuba Wax with an Orbital and a Red Foam Pad

I use a Makita B06040 machine which has both circular and random orbit modes. If you don't use a circular polisher with a high quality wool pad you will not get enough cut to get the oxidation off. If it is bad like this one was you may have to compound with the super duty more than once. If the finish is waxed regularly the oxidation wont come back.

ttu
04-20-2012, 12:05 PM
brian, looks great!

LaRue
04-20-2012, 12:14 PM
nice work and information.

d2jp
04-20-2012, 12:55 PM
Great job! How many hours, how many beers?

Table Rocker
04-20-2012, 01:18 PM
The boat looks great, nice work.

Millertime
04-20-2012, 01:38 PM
Nice work! Great post! Just in time for spring cleaning.

BrianM
04-20-2012, 01:55 PM
Great job! How many hours, how many beers?

I have about 8 hours in it including a Perfect Pass install which took me about 2 hours.

03geetee
04-24-2012, 09:59 PM
That looks great man hats off to you!

JTR

trickskier
04-24-2012, 10:22 PM
Nice job Brian!

vrsc
04-25-2012, 06:32 AM
sweet job!!

DJ 50
04-25-2012, 06:59 AM
Looks great, are you going to hit the teak up next?

Kyle
04-25-2012, 10:11 AM
That's some good work right there.

BrooksfamX2
04-25-2012, 10:38 AM
Very nice work..........

gatorguy
04-25-2012, 10:46 AM
Do you leave the decals on, or do they get chewed up by the process? I want to clean up my boat, but don't want to buy new decals.

MariStar-Man
04-25-2012, 10:59 AM
That's great work with a circular polisher. Most use the orbital to, "Play it safe" but if you have a steady hand and are familiar with the circular, I feel it provides the best possible shine one can get on severely Oxidized areas.

http://www.smartandgreenautospa.com/images/B3B.jpg

jafo9
04-25-2012, 12:16 PM
i can't say enough good things about the makita in the picture above. i initially bought the harbor freight one and ended up buying the makita. worth every penny in the cost difference. the cord on the HF one broke so i just took it back for a refund. the great thing about the makita and probably other nice ones as well is that the speed never changes no matter how much or how little pressure. once you set it, you're done.

i buffed over the decals on my 02 x30. didn't hurt them though i went lightly over them. didn't make any difference to the big side graphics but the smaller "MasterCraft" on the rear sides and the "MasterCraft WakeBoard Edition" logos looked a ton better after buffing them. i used the 3 product kit from Meguires. I also used their foam pads. i was a little disappointed in the cutting pads as they didn't seem to last too long to justify their price.

orbeamlb
04-25-2012, 10:28 PM
Brian,

Shined up well. Where you put in at? Growing up my family would boat on the Tchefuncte and Bayou Lacombe.

jakethebt
05-20-2012, 09:16 AM
Hey BrianM, Did you remove the sun pad for buffing or was it off for something else?

Philscbx
05-26-2012, 11:50 AM
Very Nice, I have the same gear. Love that Makita.
I ended up getting a smaller one (not Makita) also variable speed for 3"-4" pads for small detail.

The Teak when done will look like a million bucks.

Philscbx
05-26-2012, 11:55 AM
the makita and probably other nice ones as well is that the speed never changes no matter how much or how little pressure. once you set it, you're done.That's a feature that's very important that few realize, even cordless drills.

My Panasonic commercial series still going since 95, replaced the batteries once.
Also the only ones with electric brake control that doesn't allow chuck/armature to turn with trigger off.

BrianM
05-26-2012, 05:12 PM
I use the Makita B06040 which is a two mode machine. It is random orbit but also has a forced circular mode. The circular mode still has a bit of 'giggle' which makes it more forgiving than a standard circular polisher but still has plenty of cut.

BrianM
05-26-2012, 05:12 PM
Hey BrianM, Did you remove the sun pad for buffing or was it off for something else?
The sun pad was off just for cleaning. The boat was filthy.

lake weir skier
02-19-2014, 08:52 PM
BrianM, which Lake Country wool pads are you using for your initial step with 3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound? Twisted wool? Foamed wool? Size?

I’m pretty much trying to duplicate your methods with a Flex 3401, which has a motion similar to your Makita B06040 in its orbital plus forced rotation mode.

Cloaked
02-19-2014, 09:33 PM
BrianM, which Lake Country wool pads are you using for your initial step with 3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound? Twisted wool? Foamed wool? Size?

I’m pretty much trying to duplicate your methods with a Flex 3401, which has a motion similar to your Makita B06040 in its orbital plus forced rotation mode. Not speaking for Brian, but the twisted wool is the ticket for the 3MSD Compound. They cost a little more but they also will give you a better result as well as a little longer life for use. I like to have three on hand for working a long while, keep two clean as I use another. They dry out quickly if you'll put the head in a 5 gal bucket and spin out the water with the buffer. Otherwise it's slow drying and a long wait when the other pad gets dirty. I do not buy the special soap they offer at $3.00 per pack. Dish washing liquid soap works just fine.

The size will depend on your machine. If it has a 5" backing plate, you'll need a 6-1/2" diameter pad. Please double check this information for your machine.

Lake Country is good stuff. I too have followed Brian's methodology with satisfactory results. Buy the curved edge pads.

A circular machine will cut a little better and the random orbital works well from there on out. The random orbital will work fine if a circular is not available.

Microfiber cloth towels are a must. I find those in 30 packs at Sam's Club or Costco for little of nothing.

BrianM
02-20-2014, 08:06 AM
^^^ What he said.

TayMC197
02-20-2014, 10:09 AM
Collinite 920, it's the shiznit!! Ask Kyle.. He can verify..

thatsmrmastercraft
02-20-2014, 11:36 AM
Great job on both the boat and the write-up. That will help a lot of people on here. :toast:

rydog
02-22-2014, 07:26 AM
It's hard to tell from the pictures bit when you say oxidation do you mean from like years outside? My boat sits in the water all summer so the bottom of the hull got stained and dull, would I use the same procedure?

Cloaked
02-22-2014, 07:38 AM
It's hard to tell from the pictures bit when you say oxidation do you mean from like years outside? My boat sits in the water all summer so the bottom of the hull got stained and dull, would I use the same procedure?Oxidation is typically (using that word loose-lipped) from UV exposure and no care for the fiberglass (wax, etc).

Sitting in the water all summer is different. You may very well be able to clean your issue of neglect with toilet bowl cleaner (seriously).

Unless water docking is the only option, leaving a boat in the water for months on end is not the best approach for fiberglass care. As a result of that, likely (merely a guess on my part) you are also inducing UV exposure to other parts of the boat (thus oxidation.. a lighter chalky-looking consequence of UV damage). Grime and yellowing may be considered oxidation in one sense or another but I don't consider that anything other than a least-desirable way for boat docking or storage and poor care (honesty not a malicious statement). Eventually the glass will start to de-laminate and/or bubble from water saturation. Fiberglass is porous....

Now, if the grunge doesn't clean up with bowl cleaner, then a compound cut or sanding may be required.

Best on cleaning and restoration.

rydog
02-22-2014, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the response. Yeah right now my only option is keeping the boat in the water all summer. My cover will cover most of the above water fiberglass so UV on that is not enormous. The significant issue is the fact it is docked in the water all summer. Again this coming summer I will have to dock it in the water. Do you recommend scrubbing what I can off the hull underwater at least once a week or something to stop what happened last summer? If everything comes off with toilet bowl cleaner I am assuming it will need to be waxed to get it back to how it was in the beginning of the summer? This was my first summer with it, it has always been stored inside before so I am trying to figure out the best approach going forward as the new owner.

JayBrown
03-03-2014, 08:30 PM
I'm going to do my boat this year, where do I find all the pads?

Rockman
03-03-2014, 08:36 PM
I'm going to do my boat this year, where do I find all the pads?

Amazon...

lake weir skier
03-04-2014, 12:06 AM
I'm going to do my boat this year, where do I find all the pads?

I've been doing well getting compound and polish by 3M, Meguiar, and Menzerna on Amazon (sometime from third part suppliers on Amazon).

I've been buying Lake Country pads from Autogeek. They seem to run sales pretty regularly on weekends. They are one of several sites under the Palm Beach Motoring umbrella. I've seen one of the sister sites for Premium Boat Care mentioned on here as a source.

Autogeek (http://www.autogeek.net/)

Premium Boat Care (http://www.premiumboatcare.com/)

TayMC197
03-04-2014, 09:20 AM
Thanks for the response. Yeah right now my only option is keeping the boat in the water all summer. My cover will cover most of the above water fiberglass so UV on that is not enormous. The significant issue is the fact it is docked in the water all summer. Again this coming summer I will have to dock it in the water. Do you recommend scrubbing what I can off the hull underwater at least once a week or something to stop what happened last summer? If everything comes off with toilet bowl cleaner I am assuming it will need to be waxed to get it back to how it was in the beginning of the summer? This was my first summer with it, it has always been stored inside before so I am trying to figure out the best approach going forward as the new owner.


Go to walmart and get a bottle of atwoods hull cleaner.. It'll do the trick.. Remember to wax the hell out if it afterwards.

JayBrown
03-04-2014, 08:06 PM
Amazon...

For some reason I can't get amazon to work for me in Canada. Any other spots?

mikeg205
03-04-2014, 08:16 PM
For some reason I can't get amazon to work for me in Canada. Any other spots?

www.autogeek.com

lake weir skier
03-04-2014, 08:23 PM
www.autogeek.com

Did you mean http://www.autogeek.net?

mikeg205
03-04-2014, 08:30 PM
Did you mean http://www.autogeek.net?

yes... the .com thing is a habit :D

lake weir skier
03-04-2014, 08:47 PM
yes... the .com thing is a habit :D

A benefit of your habit is you caused me to stumble into a 10 percent discount they apparently offer people from the .com website. However, I've seen them run 20 percent off at least a couple of times in the past month. Exclusions apply to their discounts.

http://www.autogeek.net/agcom.html

mikeg205
03-04-2014, 11:01 PM
A benefit of your habit is you caused me to stumble into a 10 percent discount they apparently offer people from the .com website. However, I've seen them run 20 percent off at least a couple of times in the past month. Exclusions apply to their discounts.

http://www.autogeek.net/agcom.html

your MCOCD runs deep young(low post count) padewan :) :D

Hammer
03-11-2014, 12:05 PM
Ordering a Makita 6040. Which pads do I need to order? Which compounds and polishes?

ski/hunt
03-11-2014, 12:50 PM
Use what Brian and cloaked used...some info on DS (likely same as this thread) in boats and skiing under polish and rub-----cloaked did his black boat with the suggested system and it's perfect!!

Aric'sX15
03-11-2014, 01:36 PM
For aggressive cutting I would suggest 3M 06044!

lake weir skier
03-11-2014, 01:51 PM
I did some testing using BrianM’s pad (wool and foam) and compound/polish recommendations and intend to use his approach on my entire boat based on the tests. Thanks, Brian.

The argument is made here you can accomplish a lot without wetsanding. I think that’s true, but if wetsanding is needed and there are wetsanding scratches to remove, know that Autogeek’s training director – Mike Phillips -- made a big pitch to me on their forum that a pure rotary is best for removing such scratches and that it would be best to sand out to a much higher level than 1000 grit (at least if not using a pure rotary). This was when I posted a question on their forum about trying to remove 1000 grit wetsanding scratches in gelcoat with a Flex 3401 polisher, which has a motion similar to the Makita B06040 BrianM uses when the Makita is in its orbital plus forced rotation mode.

Phillips wetsanded the sides of his oxidized 1967 ski boat. His response to me appears to indicate his decision to wetsand was driven more by the existence of staining than by oxidation. I don’t think he wetsanded the remainder of the boat, which was also oxidized as you can see from his photos.

Flex 3401 for removal of sanding scratches from gelcoat
(http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/flex-polishers/76823-flex-3401-removal-sanding-scratches-gelcoat.html)

Phillips is also their front guy on their sister Premium Boat Care website. I would be curious if anyone here with experience wetsanding, compounding, and polishing gelcoat has any reaction to what he posted in response to my questions.

In looking around the internet, I found that a pure rotary tool and wool pads come up over and over in connection with doing gelcoat when professionals are doing it. This appears to be because gelcoat is generally harder than auto paint and because many boats have more surface area than a car.

P.S. Phillips is missing a leg. He has addressed that on Autogeek’s forum. Turns out he lost it to the prop on his 1970 Sanger drag boat when in his 20s. Be careful with your boat.

blackhawk
03-11-2014, 03:48 PM
Hammer - Here is a write up that I did last Fall. Pretty close to Brian's method. I list out all the part numbers that I used. The only thing that I would do differently is to add the glaze step before waxing. I mention that toward the end of the thread.

lake weir skier
03-11-2014, 05:01 PM
Hammer - Here is a write up that I did last Fall. Pretty close to Brian's method. I list out all the part numbers that I used. The only thing that I would do differently is to add the glaze step before waxing. I mention that toward the end of the thread.

You are referring to this thread?

scratch removal and buffing process that worked for me (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=57791)

Aric'sX15
03-11-2014, 05:09 PM
Used Blackhawks methods also!!!

blackhawk
03-11-2014, 05:44 PM
Lake weir skier - Yes, I copied the link, but evidently forgot to paste it. Thanks for posting the link.

FoggyNogginz
04-02-2014, 06:41 PM
Gents - This is all great info! I have a two year old boat that the original owner apparently never waxed at all while it sat on a lift. I just removed his original registration numbers otday and there is a definite color change n the gel coat under the old letters. What you recommend in this scenario? A similar procedure? I had some Meguiar's Heavy Oxidation remover and a cotton rag to hit it with quickly today, but that didn't come close. Pretty surprising to see a 2012 color change this much.

Thanks in advance for the guidance.

FoggyNogginz
04-02-2014, 06:49 PM
P.S. Which one of these 3M Super Duty compounds did you use? Are they all the same? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=3m%20super%20duty%20compound&sprefix=3m+super+duty+co%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A3m%20super%20duty%20compound

Aric'sX15
04-02-2014, 07:01 PM
I would hit it with 3m 06044. Thatll be a one and done deal

Cloaked
04-02-2014, 07:02 PM
P.S. Which one of these 3M Super Duty compounds did you use? Are they all the same? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=3m%20super%20duty%20compound&sprefix=3m+super+duty+co%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A3m%20super%20duty%20compound

3M 05955 Super Duty Rubbing Compound - 1 Gallon (http://www.amazon.com/3M-05955-Super-Rubbing-Compound/dp/B0015PKMLQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396479522&sr=8-2&keywords=3m+super+duty+compound)

.

FoggyNogginz
04-02-2014, 07:08 PM
Thanks guys. Can I do this by hand or with an orbital?? I don't have a circular. Much appreciated.

BrianM
04-02-2014, 08:21 PM
You can do it by hand but it takes some elbow grease. For wht you ar describing it should work fine. You will have to use a polish after the Superduty as it will leave the gel looking a bit hazy.

CC2MC
04-03-2014, 12:21 AM
Thanks guys. Can I do this by hand or with an orbital?? I don't have a circular. Much appreciated.

Having a buffer will be much faster and easier. You can just pick up a cheap one at Harbor Freight for around $40 or so. You will save so much time and effort. Don't even bother with the cheap buffing/polishing pads they sell though. They are junk.

lake weir skier
04-03-2014, 01:18 AM
P.S. Which one of these 3M Super Duty compounds did you use? Are they all the same? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=3m%20super%20duty%20compound&sprefix=3m+super+duty+co%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A3m%20super%20duty%20compound

I bought a quart of Super Duty to begin but quickly learned a twisted wool pad will pull quite a bit of it in, so when I replenshed, I bought a gallon. I don't know if the auto and marine versions have the same formulation, but if there is any difference, I suspect it's not great. I'm not worrying about it. It may just be packaging and pricing differences.

lake weir skier
04-03-2014, 01:30 AM
Thanks guys. Can I do this by hand or with an orbital?? I don't have a circular. Much appreciated.

I have a 1994 I bought last year. I don't know how many owners it's had, but the layers of registration decals I removed suggest the registration number I removed was on the boat at least twelve years.

I found the shadow of the registation number was pretty stubborn. It didn't disappear with compounding with my Flex 3401 -- an orbital with forced rotation. Maybe with more work time it would have, but I got rid of it with wet sanding and removing sanding scratches with Super Duty on a pure rotary running a twisted wool pad at 1400 RPM.

Maybe yours, being a newer boat, will disappear with less effort. The rule you always hear is use the least aggressive method that accomplishes the task.

By the way, I discovered one night the registration shadow was much more visible and defined under halogen light than in daylight. Not that I'm going to have my boat under a halogen light all the time, but it made it easier to verify the thing was really good and gone.

FoggyNogginz
04-03-2014, 07:59 AM
Hmmm....I do have a Harbor Freight nearby and I had forgotten about them. Good tip. Thanks!

blackhawk
04-03-2014, 10:52 AM
I would suggest the Dewalt DWP849X polisher. I had used a Porter Cable polisher/sander for years on my cars and my first boat. When I decided to really work on my X15 I bought the Dewalt and it made a huge difference. I just did my two daily drivers, SUV and truck, for the first time with the Dewalt and they look the best that they ever have. I know it is an expensive tool but it is well worth it IMHO. It has great torque and maintains the set speed no matter how hard you push down on it.


http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWP849X-7-Inch-Variable-Polisher/dp/B004W1WGIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396536215&sr=8-1&keywords=dewalt+polisher

FoggyNogginz
04-03-2014, 11:47 AM
I would suggest the Dewalt DWP849X polisher. I had used a Porter Cable polisher/sander for years on my cars and my first boat. When I decided to really work on my X15 I bought the Dewalt and it made a huge difference. I just did my two daily drivers, SUV and truck, for the first time with the Dewalt and they look the best that they ever have. I know it is an expensive tool but it is well worth it IMHO. It has great torque and maintains the set speed no matter how hard you push down on it.


http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWP849X-7-Inch-Variable-Polisher/dp/B004W1WGIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396536215&sr=8-1&keywords=dewalt+polisher

What speed should we use on these multispeed units? I assume slower is better because it's less likely to swirl, but faster removes faster/easier. Just curious if there is a hard and fast rule.

Also, which pads did you buy? btw..Thanks for spending my money this morning!! lol

BrianM
04-03-2014, 12:07 PM
Lake County pads. I usually use my machines at a medium low speed for all my work. However if I am really trying to cut with the compound I'll turn it up to the medium range for a little more cut.

FoggyNogginz
04-03-2014, 12:16 PM
Lake County pads. I usually use my machines at a medium low speed for all my work. However if I am really trying to cut with the compound I'll turn it up to the medium range for a little more cut.

Cool. If either of you guys are in Nashville TN this weekend and would like to earn some beers, let me know!

KC

LTWon
04-03-2014, 12:40 PM
I am going to be starting this once the weather cooperates a bit more. I am buying the Dewalt DWP849 to use. How much Rubbing compound will i need to get. Right now i have a quart in my shopping cart. Will that be enough to compound a lightly oxidized 190 prostar?

blackhawk
04-03-2014, 01:45 PM
kentcunningham - The 3M products that I have used give you an rpm range on the bottle. Just read the labels as they have other good info most of the time.

LTWon - A quart of the 3M compound is plenty. I did my entire X15 and didn't quite use half the bottle. It will take a lot of compound at first, but once your pad starts getting thoroughly wet, it won't take much to do each section. You will need to follow that up with some Finesse-IT. If the oxidation is really light, the Finesse-IT may do the job for you.

lake weir skier
04-03-2014, 01:47 PM
What speed should we use on these multispeed units? I assume slower is better because it's less likely to swirl, but faster removes faster/easier. Just curious if there is a hard and fast rule.

Also, which pads did you buy? btw..Thanks for spending my money this morning!! lol

I bought a package of detailing stuff from Autogeek that included the book "The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine" by their training director -- Mike Phillips. In his book, on a dual action polisher with a 1-6 scale, Phillips recommends 5-6 for heavy correction work, 4-6 for polishing, and 2-4 for final polishing or wax application. Of course, it matters how fast you move the pad across the surface. Move too fast and you get less bite and the pad and product don't get enough chance to work for you. Pressure matters too. He recommends about 15-20 pounds of downward force including the weight of the tool if the surface is underneath the tool.

For compounding, I've been using the DeWalt pure rotary recommended to you above. You'll find a recommended rotational speed of 1400-2000 on the Super Duty. I've been playing it safe running the Super Duty on a twisted wool pad on the DeWalt pure rotary at the low end of that range -- 1400. It removes sanding scratches just fine and leaves the surface with a slight haze -- as BrianM says -- that I take care of in the next step. I haven't seen a need to run it faster.

BrianM has good Lake Country pad recommendations early in this thread and elswhere. The color-aggressiveness relationship is NOT standardized across pad manufacturers.

lake weir skier
04-03-2014, 01:56 PM
I am going to be starting this once the weather cooperates a bit more. I am buying the Dewalt DWP849 to use. How much Rubbing compound will i need to get. Right now i have a quart in my shopping cart. Will that be enough to compound a lightly oxidized 190 prostar?

Note there is a DWP849 and a DWP849X. Blackhawk recommended the latter above and that's what I purchased recently.

lake weir skier
04-03-2014, 02:04 PM
I am going to be starting this once the weather cooperates a bit more. I am buying the Dewalt DWP849 to use. How much Rubbing compound will i need to get. Right now i have a quart in my shopping cart. Will that be enough to compound a lightly oxidized 190 prostar?

It will vary according to technique. I used three quarters of a quart of Super Duty well before I was done with my 190 with light to medium oxidation from the Florida sun over several months. Given the significant quantity price break, I wish I had started with a gallon.

LTWon
04-03-2014, 02:39 PM
Note there is a DWP849 and a DWP849X. Blackhawk recommended the latter above and that's what I purchased recently.

I am ordering the DWP849X with the rubber cover, seems to have great reviews.

lake weir skier
04-03-2014, 09:35 PM
Lake County pads. I usually use my machines at a medium low speed for all my work. However if I am really trying to cut with the compound I'll turn it up to the medium range for a little more cut.

You've previously said you use a Makita B06040, but here you used the plural "machines." Do you use a polisher in addition to your B06040 polisher?

canuck skier
04-04-2014, 05:16 PM
Brian, Did you use the polishing compound over the decals and everything. Just purchased a 92 Prostar 190 (red) with some oxidation that needs to be removed.
Jason

BrianM
04-04-2014, 05:33 PM
Typo. I only use my Makita.

I polish over the decals. Just try not to compound them and use a light touch on the machine when getting close to the decals.

D. Newland
04-09-2014, 04:21 PM
I've got vertical lines in my gel coat, like from the molding process. Not all that concerned about it, but it's noticeable when looking at it when backlit.

Will detailing typically smooth them out, or am I looking at a wet sand job?

FoggyNogginz
04-13-2014, 09:16 PM
I have a 1994 I bought last year. I don't know how many owners it's had, but the layers of registration decals I removed suggest the registration number I removed was on the boat at least twelve years.

I found the shadow of the registation number was pretty stubborn. It didn't disappear with compounding with my Flex 3401 -- an orbital with forced rotation. Maybe with more work time it would have, but I got rid of it with wet sanding and removing sanding scratches with Super Duty on a pure rotary running a twisted wool pad at 1400 RPM.

Maybe yours, being a newer boat, will disappear with less effort. The rule you always hear is use the least aggressive method that accomplishes the task.

By the way, I discovered one night the registration shadow was much more visible and defined under halogen light than in daylight. Not that I'm going to have my boat under a halogen light all the time, but it made it easier to verify the thing was really good and gone.

I went through two wool pads on a random orbital and I'm still only 90% there on the registration numbers after three hours. They are certainly being a pest. I wanted to remove the X14 graphic too, but I'm not sure that my orbital will do the trick.

sand2snow22
04-13-2014, 09:32 PM
I went through two wool pads on a random orbital and I'm still only 90% there on the registration numbers after three hours. They are certainly being a pest. I wanted to remove the X14 graphic too, but I'm not sure that my orbital will do the trick.

Wet sand with 2500, then buff,

FoggyNogginz
04-13-2014, 09:33 PM
Wet sand with 2500, then buff,

I'm a little chicken of that to be honest...

lake weir skier
04-14-2014, 12:16 AM
I'm a little chicken of that to be honest...

I had a conversation with Autogeek's training director about using my orbital with forced rotation to remove 1000 grit sanding scratches. He said it could be done, but would take a lot of time. I found it much easier to remove them with a pure rotary I purchased.

Flex 3401 for removal of sanding scratches from gelcoat
(http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/flex-polishers/76823-flex-3401-removal-sanding-scratches-gelcoat.html)

I haven't sanded as high as 2500, but if that would remove the problem, I would think it would be considerably easier to remove 2500 grit scratches than the 1000 grit I was removing.

It is certainly possible for an amateur to wet sand gelcoat and return it to excellent appearance with the right equipment and products. I'm a newbie with this stuff and I've done it, and, of course, many others have. A professional graphics guy looking at a portion of my boat wet sanded from 600 grit up to 1000 grit and compounded and polished thought my twenty year old gelcoat looked new. He was looking where the old registration number was located. Just don't sand all the way through it. It's thicker and harder than auto paint. I think it's pretty hard to go all the way through, but it's possible, depending on the grit and how aggressive you are.

FoggyNogginz
04-15-2014, 06:20 PM
Thanks for the tips. I'm buying an orbital tonight and ordering some new pads. My goal is to remove all of the graphics and update them with the 2014 style Mastercraft logo.

Much appreciated.

Rockman
04-23-2014, 05:37 PM
So I removed all the stickers from our 94 190 today and am ready to get rid of the oxidation, whatever I can of the color distortion where the lettering was and get this boat back up and shining.

After reading alot of the threads on here about oxidation, I am trying to figure out whether or not I have the right materials...

I have the porter cable buffer and the colored pads (from AutoGeek.com)

Do I have the right removers, glaze and wax?

Last year we did a quick clean up and got alot of the oxidation removed but the luster did not last all summer...thinking I either did not work long enough with what I had or I do I have the wrong stuff.:confused:

I know someone on here used the 3m 05954 super duty rubbing compund with a wool pad and 3m 06064 Perfect-It polish with a 3m 5725 black foam pad...thinking that it what I need.

Let me know what you think...

Sodar
04-23-2014, 05:39 PM
Circular or Random Orbit on the Porter Cable?

Rockman
04-23-2014, 05:41 PM
Circular or Random Orbit on the Porter Cable?

Cam,

I have the Porter Cable 7424XP 6" Variable Speed Orbit Polisher

Sodar
04-23-2014, 05:44 PM
You may want to get a circular to cut and get to fresh Gelcoat. The 7424 is great for light glaze and waxing, but does not offer enough grunt to get to the new gel to get a long lasting finish.

I just use a cheap Harbor Freight polisher when I use rubbing compound and then work back to the 7424 for a nice polish and wax.

Rockman
04-23-2014, 06:06 PM
You may want to get a circular to cut and get to fresh Gelcoat. The 7424 is great for light glaze and waxing, but does not offer enough grunt to get to the new gel to get a long lasting finish.

I just use a cheap Harbor Freight polisher when I use rubbing compound and then work back to the 7424 for a nice polish and wax.

What would be a good one to get?

Saw alot of peeps using the Dewalt and also the Makita B06040.

Any cheaper options?

TN X-45
04-23-2014, 08:09 PM
........

ncsucarjock88
04-23-2014, 08:24 PM
I just have a cheap harbor freight circular as well - with one of their twisted wool pads for the tough jobs. And it does great. Loads of power, cuts really well, makes polishing 1000 grit sanding marks out of a boat pretty easy, and will do 800 if you need it do, and spend the time.

I'm a fan of Meguires 105 for tough oxidation removal, but... lots of good coupounds out there. I don't let the rotary touch car paint, but it's usually the first weapon out of the box on gelcoat.

I do typically finish with the PC7424 and a hard foam pad, I typically use Megs 205. This will bring full shine out, and remove any trails from the wool pad. It doesn't quite jewel the surface, so a third step for the most MCOCD afflicted may be required. I'm good with a two step, and a few coats of wax.

If I ever update all the vinyl striping and decals I'll probably wetsand with 2000, and then do a full buff up from that. That's what it's going to take to get my finish back to 100%. I'm content, for this season, at 85% though.

Rockman
04-23-2014, 09:13 PM
Thanks Cam and NCS...gonna check Harbor after work tomorrow...

orbeamlb
04-23-2014, 10:10 PM
I too have a rotary polisher from Harbor Freight. Can't beat the price and it comes with extra motor brushes. They aren't the quietest things but get the job done. I find that the speed does like to wander on mine.

Mike B

cbryan70
04-23-2014, 10:12 PM
Thanks Cam and NCS...gonna check Harbor after work tomorrow...

29.99 or 39.99 there. I have a coupon so if its more let me know and I'll mail it to you

lake weir skier
04-23-2014, 11:01 PM
So I removed all the stickers from our 94 190 today and am ready to get rid of the oxidation, whatever I can of the color distortion where the lettering was and get this boat back up and shining.

After reading alot of the threads on here about oxidation, I am trying to figure out whether or not I have the right materials...

I have the porter cable buffer and the colored pads (from AutoGeek.com)

Do I have the right removers, glaze and wax?

Last year we did a quick clean up and got alot of the oxidation removed but the luster did not last all summer...thinking I either did not work long enough with what I had or I do I have the wrong stuff.:confused:

I know someone on here used the 3m 05954 super duty rubbing compund with a wool pad and 3m 06064 Perfect-It polish with a 3m 5725 black foam pad...thinking that it what I need.

Let me know what you think...

I like BrianM’s process described in the first post in this thread.

He uses 3M Super Duty in Step 1. 3M lists the marine rubbing compound you have on their Super Duty page. I suspect what you have is a marine packaging of Super Duty. The descriptions are compatible. If it’s Super Duty, you can feel sand-like grit if you rub it between your fingers. Run it on a twisted wool pad on the rotary you’re planning to buy and you have Step 1. I’ve been running it at 1400 RPM, the bottom of the recommended range for Super Duty.

Step 1 will leave a light haze removed in Step 2. He uses Perfect It II Polish. Not sure about the word Glaze on your bottle, but this may again be a marine packing difference. The description on your bottle seems appropriate for this step. You have the Lake Country orange pad he uses. He recommends a rotary for this step.

In Step 3, he uses a Lake Country white pad with Meguiar’s No. 45 polish with an orbital. You have the pad and polisher, but you have No. 44, which appears more aggressive than No. 45 judging from the description on Meguir’s website. Not sure how significant the difference is. You might want to buy some No. 45. I find this step makes the least difference and might be the most skippable.

He uses a carnauba wax in Step 4. You have that. He applies with an orbital with a Lake Country red pad. You could probably apply manually instead if you wished.

From what I’ve read in several places and as I’ve found on my boat, gelcoat likes wool on a rotary. If you are going to get as aggressive as that rubbing compound you have, I would run it on a twisted wool pad on a rotary.

CORRECTION: BrianM's Step 2 uses 3M Finesse-It II Polish. That's what I've been using, but I mistakenly listed 3M Perfect-It II Polish above, which I don't think exists. There is 3M Perfect-It Polish, which 3M says is a little less aggressive than the Finesse It II that BrianM uses, but I think he's addressing that with his Step 3 with Meguiar's No. 45. Sorry for my error.

Rockman
04-23-2014, 11:20 PM
29.99 or 39.99 there. I have a coupon so if its more let me know and I'll mail it to you

Thanks Bryan...I have a few coupons too...will check on the letters and numbers for you...have to find them in the garage!

Rockman
04-23-2014, 11:23 PM
I like BrianMís process described in the first post in this thread...

Thanks LWS, I need to track down the wool pads somewhere locally...I want to work on the boat this weekend...same goes for the more aggressive compound.

cbryan70
04-23-2014, 11:31 PM
West marine will have the compound...bass pro might that's near your work....harbor freight has wool pads. Don't know how they are. What's the difference in rotary and orbital?

lake weir skier
04-23-2014, 11:36 PM
I purchased Lake Country twisted wools pads from AutoGeek online. If you need something faster, maybe a place with autodetailing stuff locally carries 3M. I've seen people on here say they wished they hadn't cheaped out on pads. The gelcoat doesn't know who made the polisher driving the pad, but the pad quality may make a difference.

It appears you already have an aggressive rubbing compound. The 3M website says it's for heavy cut.

lake weir skier
04-24-2014, 12:14 AM
What's the difference in rotary and orbital?

Random Orbital and Dual Action polishers have more complicated motions than pure circular rotation and typically have slip built into the drive mechanism and will stop moving if you press hard. They are deemed safest for novices. You can see them demonstrated with the movement stopped by pressing the polisher on the human hand (try at your own risk).

Orbitals with forced rotation, such as my Flex 3401 and BrianM's Makita BO6040, have excentric motion with a forced rotation component (though rotates slower than what a pure rotary will do) Forced rotation means it doesn't slip.

Rotary polishers have pure circular rotation with a direct drive mechanism that does not slip. They are most powerful.

See reply here by AutoGeek's training director with links to two videos explaining differences.

difference between rotary - random orbital - orbital polisher
(http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/circular-polishers-rotary-polishers-high-speed-polisher/65498-difference-between-rotary-random-orbital-orbital-polisher.html)

BrianM
04-24-2014, 07:52 AM
What he said.

You have to have the wool for the Super Duty.

I like BrianMís process described in the first post in this thread.

He uses 3M Super Duty in Step 1. 3M lists the marine rubbing compound you have on their Super Duty page. I suspect what you have is a marine packaging of Super Duty. The descriptions are compatible. If itís Super Duty, you can feel sand-like grit if you rub it between your fingers. Run it on a twisted wool pad on the rotary youíre planning to buy and you have Step 1. Iíve been running it at 1400 RPM, the bottom of the recommended range for Super Duty.

Step 1 will leave a light haze removed in Step 2. He uses Perfect It II Polish. Not sure about the word Glaze on your bottle, but this may again be a marine packing difference. The description on your bottle seems appropriate for this step. You have the Lake Country orange pad he uses. He recommends a rotary for this step.

In Step 3, he uses a Lake Country white pad with Meguiarís No. 45 polish with an orbital. You have the pad and polisher, but you have No. 44, which appears more aggressive than No. 45 judging from the description on Meguirís website. Not sure how significant the difference is. You might want to buy some No. 45. I find this step makes the least difference and might be the most skippable.

He uses a carnauba wax in Step 4. You have that. He applies with an orbital with a Lake Country red pad. You could probably apply manually instead if you wished.

From what Iíve read in several places and as Iíve found on my boat, gelcoat likes wool on a rotary. If you are going to get as aggressive as that rubbing compound you have, I would run it on a twisted wool pad on a rotary.

jgraham37128
04-24-2014, 08:01 AM
I dis-like wool pads.

With using 3M compounds I always use a Lake Country Tangerine Orange pad over wool. I keep trying to use my wool pad, but it doesn't cut as hard and leaves a ton of hard swirl marks. My opinion is foam pads are much more advanced than a wool pad, and doesn't make as big of mess.

TN X-45
04-24-2014, 08:36 AM
.......

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

lake weir skier
04-24-2014, 09:13 AM
Pad manufacturer Lake Country considers 4-ply twisted wool their most aggressive pad. It provides maximum cut.

Lake Country Pad Application Guide (http://www.lakecountrymfg.com/applicationguide/chart/)

Rockman
04-24-2014, 01:13 PM
LWS,

I ordered the wool pads and also the heavier compund.


Would the Porter Cable 7346SPR be a good one to buy since I already have the PC7424XP? Or is that not the right one?

cbryan70
04-24-2014, 01:30 PM
Bimini First :-)

Rockman
04-24-2014, 01:31 PM
Bimini First :-)

In due time my friend...:D

cbryan70
04-24-2014, 01:34 PM
Once you finish polishing yours ill bring my boat down

lake weir skier
04-24-2014, 05:57 PM
LWS,

I ordered the wool pads and also the heavier compund.


Would the Porter Cable 7346SPR be a good one to buy since I already have the PC7424XP? Or is that not the right one?

What you've already got is a dual action polisher that's considered pretty safe. If you are looking to get more aggressive with an aggressive compound on a wool pad, I would get a pure rotary. Based on what I've read about it, your proposed purchase is a random orbital, not a pure rotary, so it doesn't seem like the best addition.

I bought the DeWalt DWP849X pure rotary polisher off Amazon (about $177) because it had strong reviews and I’ve had good experience with DeWalt power tools. I've seen people on this forum perfectly happy with Harbor Freight pure rotaries that cost more like $40 (e.g., Item #60626). They might not start as soft or hold speed quite as accurately as the DeWalt and they may be noisier and not last as long, but I can see why people just taking care of one or two boats and not running the machine daily could find Harbor Freight adequate. I am just taking care of one boat too, but I had also just spent a lot of time dealing with issues with my forced rotation Flex 3401 and was in no mood for problems, so I paid up for the DeWalt. I think people on here are happy with other pure rotaries as well.

I would review some videos on technique before using a pure rotary on a wool pad with an aggressive compound. I’m just getting going on this too after much research. I’ve removed 1000 grit sanding scratches and oxidation. I run it at 1400 RPM, the low end of the recommended range for Super Duty, I press down moderately, I keep the pad moving across the surface, and I’ve been working pretty wet to make sure I don’t burn in. I seem to be using more compound than some folks report, possibly in an abundance of caution on my part. A pad spur is useful to eliminate excessive build up on a wool pad.

lake weir skier
04-24-2014, 09:33 PM
What he said.

You have to have the wool for the Super Duty.

Except I screwed up and listed the wrong stuff for your second step. I put a correction at the bottom my original post above that you quoted. Doesn't affect the aspect about Super Duty, though.

PineLakeRumble
05-04-2014, 01:29 PM
Quick question for those with experience...

1. Has anyone compared results with these two pads?

Lake Country 6.5" Purple Foamed Wool Polishing/Buffing Pad
Lake Country 7.5" 4 Ply 100% Twisted Wool Pad

2. Which pad is the ticket with 3M Imperial or Super Duty?

I'll be using the Dewalt 849x

Thanks.

lake weir skier
05-04-2014, 02:03 PM
Quick question for those with experience...

1. Has anyone compared results with these two pads?

Lake Country 6.5" Purple Foamed Wool Polishing/Buffing Pad
Lake Country 7.5" 4 Ply 100% Twisted Wool Pad

2. Which pad is the ticket with 3M Imperial or Super Duty?

I'll be using the Dewalt 849x

Thanks.

I have not compared their results.

As shown in the Lake Country Pad Application Guide, 4-ply wool is more aggressive than foamed wool and is appropriate for heavy compounding (that guide is for paint and gelcoat is harder than paint and generally requires more aggressive measures). Certainly Super Duty is appropriate for heavy compounding and that looks like a twisted wool pad that 3M is using in the video below demonstrating use of their Imperial (they say it is 100 percent wool).

I've been using Super Duty on a Lake Country 4-ply twisted wool pad running at 1400 RPM. Works fine, realizing the next step removes the haze.

Lake Country Pad Application Guide (http://www.lakecountrymfg.com/applicationguide/chart/)

3M Marine Professional Gelcoat Finishing System . (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5kfYz9Ybw)

lake weir skier
05-04-2014, 02:45 PM
I will add that I have some Lake Country purple foamed wool pads, including some that were included in a bundle as a backing for microfiber bonnets. Their pretty mushy compared to my Lake Country 4-ply twisted wool pads.

Looking around the internet among highly experienced people, I found they were often using 4-ply twisted wool on gelcoat for compounding and even for later steps, though I'm just using 4-ply twisted wool for compounding and using foam pads for later steps.

TayMC197
05-04-2014, 07:04 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/ha6adata.jpg
I used this on my boat Friday.. Worked very well..

BrianM
05-04-2014, 07:17 PM
I compound (3 m Superduty) with wool. After that I go to foam.

jgraham37128
05-04-2014, 09:13 PM
Quick question for those with experience...

1. Has anyone compared results with these two pads?

Lake Country 6.5" Purple Foamed Wool Polishing/Buffing Pad
Lake Country 7.5" 4 Ply 100% Twisted Wool Pad

2. Which pad is the ticket with 3M Imperial or Super Duty?

I'll be using the Dewalt 849x

Thanks.

1. Has anyone compared results with these two pads? No, stopped using wool pads when I stopped using cotton towels. Or news paper for cleaning window. Microfiber took the places of cotton towels and newspaper. Foam pads took over wool pads. Give them a try and no more wool.

2. Which pad is the ticket with 3M Imperial or Super Duty? Lake Country Tangerine Pad

PineLakeRumble
05-05-2014, 10:20 PM
LWS,

Like BrianM do you also use the 4 step process or do you go straight from "Finesse" polish to Wax?

lake weir skier
05-06-2014, 01:30 AM
LWS,

Like BrianM do you also use the 4 step process or do you go straight from "Finesse" polish to Wax?

I'm using BrianM's four step process. I find the third step with the Meguiar's No. 45 makes the least difference.

I've got a twenty year old boat I bought last year, so I don't know about the history of my gelcoat and how it has been worked on. It looks like your boat is even older. I've tried to be conservative, but I've recently discovered some specks (maybe tiny voids) similar to what I've seen elsewhere on this forum that others have found can only be cured by re-gelcoating in all likelhood. These are generally in areas where I believed I had reason to wet sand and then compounded and polished. Fortunately, they are not noticeable from a distance, but it makes me want to be all the more vigilant about being no more aggressive than necessary.

It looks like you have a lot of white on your boat, which I think shows problems less than dark colors. I'm not sure how severe your oxidation may be, but you might want to consider adjusting your process on different parts of the boat according to the condition of the gelcoat.

On boats this old, I'm more mindful than ever now of not making the cure worse than the disease.

PineLakeRumble
05-06-2014, 10:46 PM
Thanks LWS,

My 86 is really clean. Should be good with just polish and wax. I left a deposit on a project boat ('94 190, TBI) that is needing a lot of work. I'm going back at the end of the month for the water test. I'm looking forward to working on the boat this summer. Just trying to get my ducks in a row as this boat needs lots of exterior (and interior) help. Did you ever wonder why Brian didn't stick with another 3M product rather than switching to the Meguires line?

BrianM
05-07-2014, 09:36 AM
Did you ever wonder why Brian didn't stick with another 3M product rather than switching to the Meguires line?
I have just always had great results with the Meguires 3 step system Polish and Carnuba wax. I've tried other including 3M and keep coming back to the Meguires.

TayMC197
05-07-2014, 09:51 AM
I have just always had great results with the Meguires 3 step system Polish and Carnuba wax. I've tried other including 3M and keep coming back to the Meguires.


I used the meguires stage 2 then followed up with collinite 920, the. Waxed with 925... Looks great.

lake weir skier
05-07-2014, 10:52 AM
Thanks LWS,

My 86 is really clean. Should be good with just polish and wax. I left a deposit on a project boat ('94 190, TBI) that is needing a lot of work. I'm going back at the end of the month for the water test. I'm looking forward to working on the boat this summer. Just trying to get my ducks in a row as this boat needs lots of exterior (and interior) help. Did you ever wonder why Brian didn't stick with another 3M product rather than switching to the Meguires line?

Thanks for clarifying what you're working on.

Yes, I’ve wondered that and maybe BrianM will chime in with his rationale, but when I made the decision to try his process he had experience doing this and I didn’t and I was trying to not re-invent the wheel. Even as it is, I've experimented on my old gelcoat more than I would like. Reading the product descriptions for his pad/polish progression, I could see where his progression would make sense. The 3M video on their system does say Finesse It II Finishing Material is more aggressive than Perfect It Machine Polish, leaving the potential for improvement with a less aggressive polish following Finesse II Finishing Material, especially when it is being run on a less aggressive pad (Lake Country white following Lake Country orange in BrianM’s process).

Generally speaking, I think there can be reasons to change lines. In his book, which is auto paint oriented, Autogeek’s training director – Mike Phillips -- says everybody should have some Menzerna 4500, an ultra fine cut polish, for their auto paint. He likes other products in their line too, but doesn’t advocate their line exclusively, so he knows in making that recommendation on 4500 that people will be using it to follow products from other lines. My research on wax has led me to Collinite’s products, so I’m changing lines on the wax too, though I haven’t yet applied it yet since I’m trying to repair some damaged gelcoat so I can wax the whole boat without breaking into the wax for a repair.

On Autogeek’s forum, I’ve seen it alleged that Meguiar is more prone to using fillers with temporary effects compared so say, Menzerna, which Mercedes uses in its factories. I’m not sure if that’s true about Meguiar, but it could be something different about them that could cause someone to prefer their product in a final polishing step.

EDIT: I see Brian responded while I was composing my response.

lake weir skier
05-07-2014, 11:00 AM
I have just always had great results with the Meguires 3 step system Polish and Carnuba wax. I've tried other including 3M and keep coming back to the Meguires.

Ever tried any Menzerna stuff? I've got several of their products for my Tacoma but haven't used them yet. I suspect they have something that would fit with your third step for gelcoat, but I haven't wanted to experiment with it on my boat. Autogeek's training director tried Menzerna products on the gel on his old ski boat and some other lines. Several of the lines produced nice looking results in his photos, but I find it difficult to discern fine detailing differences in photos posted to the internet.

BrianM
05-07-2014, 01:06 PM
Ever tried any Menzerana stuff? I've got several of their products for my Tacoma but haven't used them yet. I suspect they have something that would fit with your third step for gelcoat, but I haven't wanted to experiment with it on my boat. Autogeek's training director tried Menzerna products on the gel on his old ski boat and some other lines. Several of the lines produced nice looking results in his photos, but I find it difficult to discern fine detailing differences in photos posted to the internet.

Haven't used the Menzerana.

Really any 'favorite' polish and then wax can be used with the same results. I am sure there are probably 'better' products available. There are hundreds of product which would fit the bill.

The three reasons I use the Meguires for the last two steps are 1: I get good results 2: Easily obtainable at most local auto parts stores. 3: Very reasonable cost.

jgraham37128
05-07-2014, 03:17 PM
LWS,

Like BrianM do you also use the 4 step process or do you go straight from "Finesse" polish to Wax?

I use a 3 step process. Here's what I use most of the time for my black car. Now this is for a Black Denali that gets it every year and half or so. We run it through the car wash and etc.. So it's not babied likes my HD.

3M Super Duty Compound
3M Swirl Eliminator ( Best product I've ever seen or used)
Blackfire Sealant ( I use menzerma alot too)

Now my Harley Davidson never sees a car wash or rain, so I only use Menzerma products on it.

Here's some pics

jgraham37128
05-07-2014, 03:21 PM
I also want to put up a post for the lightweights out there. Sand down a fender on a black car, then bring it back to perfect condition! This will separate the men from the boys!

FoggyNogginz
05-09-2014, 12:38 AM
I also want to put up a post for the lightweights out there. Sand down a fender on a black car, then bring it back to perfect condition! This will separate the men from the boys!


That's some pretty impressive work. I've been compounding and using Finesse on my boat as time permits. I had to have a little outpatient surgery this week and it slowed me down, but I will post some photos as soon as I get done. Thanks to everyone for your guidance on this process.