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Lucky26
04-16-2012, 07:53 PM
I have got the Ilmar MV8 Engine in the 35, which has 385 horse. What is the MCX. What is the L18 and What is the Ly6. If someone could help this newbie distinguish I would appreciate it.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Indmar mcx 5.7L 350 hp
Indmar L18 8.1L 450 hp
Indmar LY6 6.0L 400 hp

All general motors based.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-16-2012, 08:18 PM
MV8 is ilmors designator for V8 marine engines yours is a 6.0L &382 hp, mv8 5.7L is 320 hp, mv8 6.2L is 430 hp and mv8 7.4L is 522 hp

Lucky26
04-16-2012, 08:28 PM
Ok. So my confusion was between the Ilmor and Indmar distinction. My dealer claimed that the he has had one warranty claim on the Ilmors compared to many with the Indmars. Opinions?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-16-2012, 08:31 PM
Indmar has been around for years and years where as ilmors have only been on the scene for like 2 yrs in mastercrafts.

Lucky26
04-16-2012, 08:34 PM
The dealer I dealt with ordered all his 12 boats with Ilmors

Jim@BAWS
04-16-2012, 09:03 PM
The dealer I dealt with ordered all his 12 boats with Ilmors

That is because he had no choice!

ILMORS come in all 2012 MCs...2011 you could choose between INDMAR and ILMOR as a dealer!

Jim@BAWS

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-16-2012, 09:04 PM
IIRC all mastercrafts will be equipped will ilmors engines in 2012 & beyond...

Lucky26
04-16-2012, 09:05 PM
Thanks for clearing it up

willyt
04-16-2012, 10:23 PM
I'm totally opening up a can of worms here, but the indmar numbers are overstated based on independent california testing. 2010 MCX was much closer to 320 hp

-V-
04-16-2012, 11:00 PM
I'm totally opening up a can of worms here, but the indmar numbers are overstated based on independent california testing. 2010 MCX was much closer to 320 hp

http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/forum/smileyvault-stirthepot.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

mikeg205
04-16-2012, 11:02 PM
That is because he had no choice!

ILMORS come in all 2012 MCs...2011 you could choose between INDMAR and ILMOR as a dealer!

Jim@BAWS

+1 - hopefully the financial upheaval yielding this business direction will be a good one...in the long run. I like the knowledge base on the Indmars... :)

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-16-2012, 11:10 PM
I'm totally opening up a can of worms here, but the indmar numbers are overstated based on independent california testing. 2010 MCX was much closer to 320 hp

I know... but thats what was advertised by dealers...Indmar never gave hp/torque numbers

hcoog17
04-17-2012, 12:21 AM
Not real sure what the MPI stands for, but 350 is on the engine. (Old Camera phone picture)

hcoog17
04-17-2012, 12:27 AM
Not real sure what the MPI stands for, but 350 is on the engine. (Old Camera phone picture)

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-17-2012, 12:40 AM
Not real sure what the MPI stands for, but 350 is on the engine. (Old Camera phone picture)

Multi Point Injection,...meaning it has 8 fuel injectors

zamboniman
04-17-2012, 01:12 AM
Not real sure what the MPI stands for, but 350 is on the engine. (Old Camera phone picture)

Could and probably does just refer to the cu in displacement of motor... 5.7 is a 350. Like a Chevy 350..

In this case 350 or a 5.7 with multi port fuel injection ... also meaning hold on to your hat when its time to replace the injectors.

blackTT
04-17-2012, 03:35 AM
I have a indmar 6L (400hp) and im searching for ways to get more power out of it.

gchapman-tt
04-17-2012, 08:29 AM
In the past all HP numbers seem to have been overstated, and some still are.
It is evident that Ilmor has refused to do this and can be confirmed by comparing their HP numbers to the numbers as submitted for emission certification.

CantRepeat
04-17-2012, 08:35 AM
Indmar has been around for years and years where as ilmors have only been on the scene for like 2 yrs in mastercrafts.

But they have been doing marine engines for a while now.

wake_rider84
04-17-2012, 08:54 AM
never herd of too many problems with the MCX ours has been great, the ilmor 6L and 6.2L numbers seem a little soft... but im sure they wouldnt change engine supliers if it was a backwards step. what are the general thoughts on the PCM engines as far as relabilty goes? a mate has a 343 and swares by it but i love our MCX.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-17-2012, 09:03 AM
But they have been doing marine engines for a while now.

Correct, I like really like that viper v10 base engine that they have in their high performance line, just something about 500+ ci and 700+ hp:D

FourFourty
04-17-2012, 09:16 AM
In the past all HP numbers seem to have been overstated, and some still are.
It is evident that Ilmor has refused to do this and can be confirmed by comparing their HP numbers to the numbers as submitted for emission certification.

This is all because Indmar has always advertised regular gross horsepower numbers. They dyno the engine with exhaust headers and no accessories installed on the engine. Marine engines are not required to adhere to SAE standards, so most don't.

Ilmor uses SAE standards to rate their engines. This means that the engine is dyno'd with all accessories installed (alternator, water pumps, all emissions equipment, flywheel, etc) and the exact same exhaust manifolds that will be used in the boat.

You wouldnt think that the accessories and manifolds would add up to a big difference, however, it is up to a 40-60hp loss when using the SAE methods, compared to rating the engine without all of that stuff on it.

The Ilmore 5.7l is rated 320hp, and is 320hp in the boat. The indmar MCX is rated at 350hp, but is probably only 300, or so, by the time it has the boat manifolds and accessories installed on it.

gchapman-tt
04-17-2012, 09:20 AM
never herd of too many problems with the MCX ours has been great, the ilmor 6L and 6.2L numbers seem a little soft... but im sure they wouldnt change engine supliers if it was a backwards step. what are the general thoughts on the PCM engines as far as relabilty goes? a mate has a 343 and swares by it but i love our MCX.

The numbers seem soft...I do not think so. The problem is the numbers are actual, which is a good thing. The Ilmor 5.7 at 320hp is greater hp than 5.7 Indmar or PCM. Of course this is comparing cats to cats.

snork
04-17-2012, 09:22 AM
My next MC will have the Ilmor engine in it:woohoo:

CantRepeat
04-17-2012, 09:41 AM
This is all because Indmar has always advertised regular gross horsepower numbers. They dyno the engine with exhaust headers and no accessories installed on the engine. Marine engines are not required to adhere to SAE standards, so most don't.

Ilmor uses SAE standards to rate their engines. This means that the engine is dyno'd with all accessories installed (alternator, water pumps, all emissions equipment, flywheel, etc) and the exact same exhaust manifolds that will be used in the boat.

You wouldnt think that the accessories and manifolds would add up to a big difference, however, it is up to a 40-60hp loss when using the SAE methods, compared to rating the engine without all of that stuff on it.

The Ilmore 5.7l is rated 320hp, and is 320hp in the boat. The indmar MCX is rated at 350hp, but is probably only 300, or so, by the time it has the boat manifolds and accessories installed on it.

I would think that just running the amp wouldn't be as big an HP loss as typical car engine would be since it has a few other things to run. IE AC, Smog pumps and what not.

Also, I doubt there is a very big loss in the pre CAT manifolds and would believe they flow better then a normal cast iron car exhaust.

Giving these two facts, or what I believe, I would not think there is a 50 HP loss from the dyno to the boat.

We have a long running history with Indmar motors and we know there are rock solid. Given Ilmor's past history of marine engines I would think they will be just as solid as Indmar has been.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-17-2012, 10:03 AM
Indmar and Ilmor are general motors based long blocks using their own version of "marine components..."

Lucky26
04-17-2012, 10:04 AM
From what I am hearing you will not have a choice. No choice that is if you buy new.

CantRepeat
04-17-2012, 10:07 AM
From what I am hearing you will not have a choice. No choice that is if you buy new.

That is correct, as Jim has pointed out already, MC is Ilmor only from 2012 and beyond.

FourFourty
04-17-2012, 10:30 AM
I would think that just running the amp wouldn't be as big an HP loss as typical car engine would be since it has a few other things to run. IE AC, Smog pumps and what not.

With the SAE standard draw of 30 amps on the Alternator, it is responsable for a loss of 15-20hp by itself. A water pump is usually around 7hp. EGR systems are a 3-4% loss. (which is 10hp+ on a 350hp engine)

Also, I doubt there is a very big loss in the pre CAT manifolds and would believe they flow better then a normal cast iron car exhaust.
Tubular headers flow MUCH better than a catylized boat manifold. You wouldnt think it adds up to very much, but it does. You are right about the cast automotive manifolds, but they are hardly used anymore....

Giving these two facts, or what I believe, I would not think there is a 50 HP loss from the dyno to the boat. You wouldn't think those things would add up to much....but they do.

We have a long running history with Indmar motors and we know there are rock solid. Given Ilmor's past history of marine engines I would think they will be just as solid as Indmar has been. Indmars are great engines.... I didnt say they weren't. They just dont follow SAE standards for rating horsepower.

I see where you are coming from.... And I am clearly guessing at the 50hp on this application. However, I do have extensive experience with dynoing engines for open wheel racecars, and I do know that just the alternator and water pump account for more than a 20hp loss on a 5.7l SBC.... EGR, manifolds, flywheel, etc would be an added loss on top of that. Thing is, in our racecars, we underdrive the alternator, to save as much hp as possible. I would guess the hp loss to be at least 20% more than that, if we did not underdrive them.

east tx skier
04-17-2012, 10:37 AM
I know of an MCX that was dyno'd and came out to 311 hp. That was without the exhaust tips. Still, I've never found any of the MCX boats I have driven to feel inadequate for slalom. They all have pulled just fine.

broncotw
04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
I have owned two MasterCrafts both with the MCX and never once had a problem! Indmar builds a solid and dependable product.... I have also owned two boats (1 MasterCraft and 1 Ski Nautique) that had the PCM and I have nothing bad to say about those engines either..... Both PCM and Indmar were very dependable and provided more than enough power....

FourFourty
04-17-2012, 11:56 AM
I have owned two MasterCrafts both with the MCX and never once had a problem! Indmar builds a solid and dependable product.... I have also owned two boats (1 MasterCraft and 1 Ski Nautique) that had the PCM and I have nothing bad to say about those engines either..... Both PCM and Indmar were very dependable and provided more than enough power....

I dont think anyone is contesting those facts.....


We are just saying that Indmar overrates horsepower..... The 2011 CARB test results state that the MCX had 230kw. Convert that to HP, and you land at 308. I couldn't find CARB results for the ILMOR 5.7, but they have them for the 6.2, and 7.4. Both of which had a result within .5% of advertised. (+/- 4 or 5 HP)

Edit- I did find it. 239KW (320.37hp)

shepherd
04-17-2012, 12:28 PM
So my "375 hp" LQ9 is only putting out around 340 hp??? I thought she seemed a tad sluggish... :cool:

mikeg205
04-17-2012, 12:38 PM
So my "375 hp" LQ9 is only putting out around 340 hp??? I thought she seemed a tad sluggish... :cool:

What RPM are talking here? maybe that's the issue. I never take my 5.7 to even 4500rpm so I don't get my spec'd 275 HP at 3000rpm...at 4200 rpm I got 42 mph... GPS's confirmed ski gear and 600lbs of people in the boat...

I've noticed the manuals for both the motor and boat really don't coincide...oh well..my .02

FourFourty
04-17-2012, 01:41 PM
So my "375 hp" LQ9 is only putting out around 340 hp??? I thought she seemed a tad sluggish... :cool:

Actually, I looked it up for MY 2006 CARB cert for the MC LQ9 and it was good for 280kw.... Which means it had 376hp. Maybe they only overrate the MCX and RTP

gchapman-tt
04-17-2012, 11:31 PM
I dont think anyone is contesting those facts.....


We are just saying that Indmar overrates horsepower..... The 2011 CARB test results state that the MCX had 230kw. Convert that to HP, and you land at 308. I couldn't find CARB results for the ILMOR 5.7, but they have them for the 6.2, and 7.4. Both of which had a result within .5% of advertised. (+/- 4 or 5 HP)

Edit- I did find it. 239KW (320.37hp)

You just need to open the pdf file for the Ilmor 6.2L group and you will find the numbers for the others. The 5.7 is 239kw / 320hp.
What is interesting is to take a look at the PCM numbers.