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View Full Version : Perfect Pass vs Zero off


Diver14
03-31-2012, 12:54 AM
I ride in the river and we have currents and my last boat had zero off and it was a pain because every time you turned around you had to adjust the speed so when I ordered my new x25 I got Perfect Pass because I was told it uses a paddle wheel which would measure speed and take into account current and this would be great.

I recently heard that 2012 x25's with Perfect Pass have issues and was wondering if anyone could confirm a fix or if they are still a problem.

I also heard that the new Zero Off can offset river current and would like if someone can confirm that. My boat is already past the change point in its build but if the PP is junk it probably would not be a problem to get them to make that change but I am hoping that there is an answer to the current issue. I am not concerned with the price of zero off what I am concerned with is paying this much for a boat and then not being able to enjoy riding behind it.

I have found some info on the forum regarding this but its somewhat dated so any current info would be great.

AZX9
03-31-2012, 04:59 AM
Not sure but I would go with the perfect pass that has the paddle wheel. Paddle wheel will take into account the current.

kskonn
03-31-2012, 02:31 PM
My dealer told me that the new zero off offsets current, I am having zero off put in my X2 in about a week. I will report how it works on the river.

east tx skier
03-31-2012, 02:57 PM
If you call Perfect Pass and ask, they have a software version for Stargazer that can account for river current. It's not part of the standard software that they list for sale though.

Diver14
03-31-2012, 04:00 PM
If you call Perfect Pass and ask, they have a software version for Stargazer that can account for river current. It's not part of the standard software that they list for sale though.

It seems that if it is using a paddle wheel it would automatically take into account the current. I will give them a call to see what they put in the mc's.

Kskonn, please let me know how that feature works once you try it.

Would still like to hear if anyone has any issues with the perfect pass functioning poorly.

Ole Miss Rebels
03-31-2012, 04:16 PM
my 2008 xstar with perfect pass and paddle-wheel locks down the set-speed perfectly. if fluctuates no more than .2 mph. i did adjust my three settings as i was instructed by perfect pass customer service. NN, KDW and CS (or something like that). it locked in harder and more abruptly and held more precisely based upon my hull, boat weight with ballast, speed, engine, tranny, prop, etc. i have adjusted and calibrated my perfect pass using a gps and it holds the speed perfectly and accurately. can't imagine anything working a whole lot better than what i have.

AZX9
03-31-2012, 05:13 PM
These models that can calibrate to the current, seams like an extra hassle. Do you have to take a current measurement and enter it in the computer? And then what do you do if you turn around and go against the current?

Diver14
04-02-2012, 10:47 AM
Can anyone confirm that the 2012 is paddle wheel or not for perfect pass.

CantRepeat
04-02-2012, 11:01 AM
Can anyone confirm that the 2012 is paddle wheel or not for perfect pass.

Even if the 2012 comes with a paddle wheel, the PP stargazer will only use the paddle wheel as a back for the GPS. I'm guessing you'd have to get it reprogrammed to use the wheel as primary.

east tx skier
04-02-2012, 12:43 PM
It seems that if it is using a paddle wheel it would automatically take into account the current. I will give them a call to see what they put in the mc's.

Kskonn, please let me know how that feature works once you try it.

Would still like to hear if anyone has any issues with the perfect pass functioning poorly.

Your assumption is correct. Since GPS measures speed over ground, it is pretty useless in measuring the speed the rider experiences behind the boat. If you're running a slalom course, it doesn't matter since speed over ground is all that matters. But if you're wakeboarding, free skiing, or pretty much doing anything else, you want speed over water.

What this version of Perfect Pass does is allow you to use the paddle wheel for the speed overlay when you are in a river current, but go back to GPS when you are not. If you only ride in a river where the current is pretty strong, and you wakeboard, then I would just get Wakeboard Pro and not worry with Stargazer or Zero Off. If you slalom ski, but don't use the course, I think SG is still an easier system to use. I have not used this "river mode" in SG. So I don't know how aggressive the speed overlay is. I tried to free ski in speed mode (paddle wheel mode) on an old Perfect Pass system, and it was terrible. Way too jerky.

We ski in a current occasionally and have SG. We just put it in practice mode and add or remove a few rpms in the settings to account for the current.

east tx skier
04-02-2012, 12:45 PM
Even if the 2012 comes with a paddle wheel, the PP stargazer will only use the paddle wheel as a back for the GPS. I'm guessing you'd have to get it reprogrammed to use the wheel as primary.

Perfect Pass SG does not use any paddle wheel input other than lake water temperature unless you have the special version of the software (you have to ask for this) that has "river mode." That's why I replaced my paddle wheel with a thru-hull depth transducer.

east tx skier
04-02-2012, 12:46 PM
These models that can calibrate to the current, seams like an extra hassle. Do you have to take a current measurement and enter it in the computer? And then what do you do if you turn around and go against the current?

For Perfect Pass SG with River mode, see my post above. You put it in river mode and it disables GPS and uses the paddle wheel for speed overlay. This setting is not in the standard SG software. You have to ask them for it.

CantRepeat
04-02-2012, 01:15 PM
Perfect Pass SG does not use any paddle wheel input other than lake water temperature unless you have the special version of the software (you have to ask for this) that has "river mode." That's why I replaced my paddle wheel with a thru-hull depth transducer.


Strange, that's not what I was told when I was talking with PP.

JRW160
04-02-2012, 02:39 PM
A friend of mine has a boat with zero off. We always ride in a river with current. The newest version of zero off does has a setting to offset the current, but it's a hassle. We just manually adjust the set speed depending on whether we are going up or down river.

Diver14
04-02-2012, 06:28 PM
So I finally got an answer to one of my questions and for those that may stumble onto this thread later looking for this information here it goes. The x25 with Perfect Pass is not the GPS based Perfect Pass. It runs solely on paddle wheel which is what I need anyway for the river current.

Judging from the response on this thread I am assuming that the problems that I heard about were isolated since no one has chimed in with any major issues thus far. Thanks for everyone's input.

bcd
04-02-2012, 11:00 PM
How do you set up the river mode on zero off? I have it on my 2012, but haven't found a river mode.

east tx skier
04-03-2012, 11:25 AM
Strange, that's not what I was told when I was talking with PP.

Version 7.0.04 of Stargazer was the last version to take any speed input from the paddle wheel. The 2009 Version 7.0.05 update was pure GPS as far as speed input goes, at least in 3 event mode. That is to say, it is still an rpm based system, but with a speed overlay, which is taken from the GPS only. I have had every version of Stargazer since it was released in February 2008. I made sure of this fact about the paddle wheel before replacing it.

Even in V.7.0.04, if there was enough of a discrepancy between GPS and the paddle wheel, SG would disregard the paddle wheel signal and use the GPS to calculate speed (just found that email from Gary).

As for "river mode," I was informed of this a year or so ago during a phone conversation with someone at Perfect Pass (either Randy, Gary, Aaron, or Mark I presume) when I asked them if there were any plans to update the software to deal with a river current. This was not an advertised software tweak. It was not standard in the encoding or any advertised update. It is/was something you had to ask for. I don't know that it is currently available. But it was at one time.

For as little as I ski in a river current, it was more cost effective to adjust the rpm add ons in GPS Practice Mode.