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View Full Version : 11km6500.2 anyone have this setup


Cguse13
03-16-2012, 01:34 PM
Well reworking my sound system on a 96 prostar 205. I used to have 6 6.5 in dubs up top. However they are complet crap and came with the cans. I like the cans but was looking to just replace the speakers with something that be loud and clear. I keep getting directed to wet sounds but afraid for what I can afford I would just end up with two rev 10s ... I'm sure they are loud and project nicely. But I want something that will spread the sound around too if I am surfing or just trying to float around the boat with friends.

I'm totally open to options for tower ideas. Just seems to me that 4 kicker 6500 and two horns would be a good all around.

Can someone give any input on this. I'd like to be in a decent system for 1500.00 and still need to by a deck and amp to match my final tower option.

Thanks Caleb.

Jeff d
03-16-2012, 01:41 PM
I've heard good things both online and from one local guy who got just the horns and one pair of mids. Someone on here posted this link to refurbished ones for $278:
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/8252700/vpcsid/0/SFV/30046

I've seen a few reports from people that bought the refurbished ones there and said they looked and sounded new.

Add your pair of 6.5 mids for another $140:
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Kicker-KM6500-R-6.5-Midrange-Marine-Audio-Boat-Speakers-10KM6500-10KM6500-RS

I'm sure it's not going to be quite as good as a pair of 10" wetsounds but $418 for the set plus the fact that they take a lot less power to run is a whole lot more budget friendly (Assuming you've already got cans).

Jeff d
03-16-2012, 01:49 PM
What about doing a pair of nice non-HLCD coaxials in the outer two pods for surfing and the horns in the middle? Then maybe a switch to turn the horns on and off or put them on separate channels so you could fade between the two. depending on if you're surfing or wakeboarding.

Cguse13
03-16-2012, 02:53 PM
I have looked into non hlcd set up too, never had the hlcd set up, and seems to be the rage so thought I'd try it, but also part of the reason I'm scared to go crack the bank for wet sounds. A nice polk set of 6.5 priced out to me was around 850 for six of them, and is how I started the confusion of what I want , need etc. I'm just in a tail spin over it really. Kinda why I was currious about kicker. I have the cans and for 500 should be major upgrade.

I was thinking about adding the wet sound WS-420 I think it is. Pa and cross over to hanle the switching.. Seems like a great idea if your out at dark just drinking. No need to upset anyone.

Jeff d
03-16-2012, 04:04 PM
I definitely wouldn't mess with the 6 Polk full range coaxials. Too much $$$ and wouldn't project that well for wakeboarding. At that price you're probably looking at the UM series but I have 4 DB651s on my tower currently with 200 watts (50 watts each) and although it works it's nothing special at 75' back. I'd either do the 11KM6500.2 (or 10KM6500.2 refurb + 10KM6500) or a hybrid setup with the 10KM6500.2 + 2 full range coaxials for surfing.

EarmarkMarine
03-16-2012, 06:34 PM
You should consider the new Wetsounds Icon8 tower speaker. It's an 8-inch coaxial surf speaker for $699 a pair. And you can drive them very well with any number of quality $250 amplifiers. In fact, during the development process the Icon8 results were so good that Wetsounds decided to discontinue the Pro60 6.5" HLCDs. More surface area translates to a warmer sounding speaker with more midbass.

David
Earmark Marine

Cguse13
03-18-2012, 12:17 AM
david, how do you keep up with all these forms, through my reading and research i see see earmark marine everywhere.....

think i have settled on the 4 mids and 2 horns for 6 overhead tower speakers from kicker... thanks for your guy's imput hope i like it.....surely it will blow a way 6 dub speakers... things wont even stick to my welding table.

joyner1020
03-19-2012, 11:07 AM
I had the Kicker HLCD 6-pack setup with the 4 mid-range and the 2 horns ...I ran them on a ZX450.2 amp from kicker . When u set them up they all hook together , 3 on the left go to left channel and 3 on the right go to the right channel . I would say that the setup is simple , and the 450 amp is the smallest that I would go with ..They were LOUD , but If u had the 750 watt kicker amp im sure they would be screamin ...

As far as the surfing goes , I never surfed this boat so I cant tell ya , but I will say that at wakeboard lenght {75ft} they can be heard nice and clear ..I had alot of complements on them , even from some of the wetsounds/NVS guys ..Its a good alternative to not spending thousands on a stereo setup ... Close to the boat the sound is a bit brighter than I liked , and I dont think u can change that .. So A nice subwoofer and the 4 midranges will equal that all out and add the bottom that the system lacks .

Hope this helps , and I hope nobody wants to kill me for having like 20 posts and 2 of them already have a picture of a Bayliner in them !!! :D

Jeff d
03-19-2012, 11:52 AM
I've seen in the instructions to wire these up in parallel with the "6 pack" configuration. So, you'd have a horn + 2 mids in parallel on each channel (Assuming you're running with a 2 ch amp). What's the resulting impedance of this setup? All I can find relative to the horn + mid pairs is that they're "4 Ohms".

Does that mean that each driver is 4 ohms or that 1 horn + 1 mid in parallel = 4 ohms (i.e. 8 ohms per driver)? If so, would you end up with a 2.67 ohm nominal impedance when you bring in a 2nd midbass driver per channel (5.34 ohms for the whole "6 Pack")?

Jeff d
03-19-2012, 01:01 PM
It looks like the 10KM6500 midbass drivers are 4 ohms. If the horn is 4 ohms also then that would mean 2 mids + 1 horn in parallel (per the install instructions see page 3 here (http://www.kicker.com/sites/default/files/2010%20KM6500%20RevG.pdf)) would net a 1.33 ohm impedance per channel. That's too low for most amps. Not sure how this has played out for others.

zamboniman
03-19-2012, 05:31 PM
Probably not.. it depends on what passive crossovers are in line before each driver .. for instance the tweeter impedance will not be seen once far enough below its crossover and if the mid has a low pass it will have a similar situation .. not being familiar with the kicker setup I can't say other than you can't take the raw impedance values if there is any crossover network in line

Jeff d
03-19-2012, 05:47 PM
Probably not.. it depends on what passive crossovers are in line before each driver .. for instance the tweeter impedance will not be seen once far enough below its crossover and if the mid has a low pass it will have a similar situation .. not being familiar with the kicker setup I can't say other than you can't take the raw impedance values if there is any crossover network in line

This would make sense to me if there was as single crossover in front (From the perspective of wiring) of a pair of speakers. That doesn't appear to be the case with this setup though. Each driver looks to have its own crossover mounted to the rear of the magnet.
http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/431754/big/10km65002.jpg
http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/431909/big/10km65002.jpg

Then the instructions say to wire each driver in parallel. Before I read the instructions I was assuming you'd wire up one driver+crossover to a channel on the amp and then run a jumper from that crossover to the other driver. Instead, what it appears is that each driver/crossover functions independently, blocking out the unwanted frequencies.

Jeff d
03-19-2012, 05:55 PM
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zamboniman
03-19-2012, 07:01 PM
There is definitely what appears to be a 2nd order filter on both the horn tweeter and mids. Therefore, as the manual is indicating you're probably safe wiring up to an amp that is 2ohms stable. Not knowing the actual filter paramters I can't say for sure but you can assume they are probably about the same xover point for each tweeter/mid. So in general a single/mid + tweeter combo is probably approx ~ 4ohm load combined in parallel (even though they are also 4 ohms individual). Toss in the extra mid and you're somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 ohms overall. Now those are "nominal" rating numbers. The dirty secret in all this is that impedance isn't constant and varies over the frequencies being produced. It's all up to the manufacturer to determine what's "nominal". It ends up being a marketing dept thing.. It may only drop to 4 ohms for a for a small amount of the frequencies being reproduced. In the world of audio you'll find all kinds of 4 or 8 ohm speakers that primarily play much high and in some cases much lower than those numbers.

What's it all mean.... the fact that the manufacturer is recommending just paralleling the 3 lends me to believe it's like I started off... The resultant is probably in the 2 ohm "nominal" area.. acceptable for most high quality amps these days....

agarabaghi
03-19-2012, 07:14 PM
You should consider the new Wetsounds Icon8 tower speaker. It's an 8-inch coaxial surf speaker for $699 a pair. And you can drive them very well with any number of quality $250 amplifiers. In fact, during the development process the Icon8 results were so good that Wetsounds decided to discontinue the Pro60 6.5" HLCDs. More surface area translates to a warmer sounding speaker with more midbass.

David
Earmark Marine

Sorry to thread jack, do you think a pair of Icon8s would add anything to a system using a single Pro 485 and 600watts rms off a SYN6 or will they just get muffled by the pro485 horn?

Jeff d
03-19-2012, 07:39 PM
What's it all mean.... the fact that the manufacturer is recommending just paralleling the 3 lends me to believe it's like I started off... The resultant is probably in the 2 ohm "nominal" area.. acceptable for most high quality amps these days....

Ok, thanks. I figured it had to be safe but I just wanted a technical explanation for why the empirical "specs" didn't seem to jive with the install instructions. The marketing department getting a hold of the specs before they were published is a plausible enough explanation.

zamboniman
03-19-2012, 07:57 PM
The actual explanation is that independantly they are probably each rated correctly... Just that the impendance of the overall circuit when combined doesn't just simply follow ohms law. Basically, at the mid frequencies the tweeter load isn't presented to the amplifier and at high frequencies the mids load isn't presented to the amplifier essentially the tweeter + mid are acting like a single speaker driver (this is an oversimplification but the basic concept).. So in this overall case you're primarily concerned with the paralleling of the to 2 mid drivers and that resultant load to the amp.

If those filter networks weren't on the drivers (the tweeter one is mandatory to protect itself).. this would be an entirely different story.

The only place the marketing dept steps in is when they put that impedance "number" on the spec sheet. The reality is that the impedance is a curve that varies depending on what frequency you are looking at. For example you may have a driver that dips really low to say 1 ohm or so for a small frequency region and plays closer to 4 ohms for most frequencies.. yet may be something far off like 16 or more ohms at the other extreme. A good example of this (since I don't have a raw driver to reference off hand) are Martin Logan electrostatic home speakers. The marketing dept calls them "8 ohm speakers" since that is the accepted norm in home audio and is expected... yet many have an impedance that dips down to 1 ohm as you approach the top end of their operating range. Then it's followed up with you really need a "robust" amplifier to drive these 8 ohm speakers.

EarmarkMarine
03-20-2012, 09:59 AM
Using two of the 4-ohm midbass drivers in parallel off one channel will result in a 2-ohm load. Adding the tweeter in parallel will not change the load since the midbass drivers and tweeter are playing different bandwidths. The midbass driver rising voice coil inductance in combination with the passive cossover network will dictate that the impedance of the highpass tweeter throughout its operating range will be in parallel with a near infinite impedance of the midbass driver in that same region. And, the inverse will also hold true throughout the midbass operating range.

David
Earmark Marine

Cguse13
03-20-2012, 10:51 AM
so obviously i need to post my 3 crappy amps and ask you guys what to hook up where because you guys blow my mind with this stuff....

my deck _ still deciding on what to buy kind of leanding towards the kenwood kmr700u or the sony or the sony cdx-910ui - just not sure i wont that huge thing sticking out of my dash

boat speakers are 2 sony 6.5 and 2 sony 6x9 explodes

tower speakers will be the kicker 11km6500.2 plus two kicker kn6500

1 sub in a box under driver steering wheel 12" kicker comp

2 optima bluetop 34's

amp 1 - kenwood kac-7202
amp 2 - dual xpr4640
amp 3 - jensen 300 mosfet

i know not a one of those amps is special and hate to run 3 amps but so far cant figure out the bestway around it - not completly sold on just these three amps yet been told just to trash all three and for 300 bux by 2 audio pipe amps for afordability

Cguse13
03-20-2012, 10:55 AM
btw - wish i would of taken this much time to read and learn audio back in my hs days that old z28 would of rocked.... although so far i think i have just learned the terms wich is just enough to make you a true idiot vs just not knowing.

nmcjr
03-21-2012, 02:12 AM
I don't know anything about the kicker setup but fwiw honestly two rev 10's is all you need. For the record I have two bullets which is more than I need and the rev 10's outperform the bullets. I think the mid bass of the larger driver is important to prevent the sound from being too obnoxious in the boat when the towers are cranked. The rev 10's will spread the sound just fine in the boat and for surfing.

Jeff d
03-21-2012, 06:15 PM
Yeah, all you need is a pair of $1,100 speakers and a $900 amp :cool: I'm sure they sound fantastic but no matter how good it sounds/performs I just can't justify spending $2k on my whole system (let alone just the tower speakers).

To the OP I would probably ditch the other two amps but keep that Kicker amp to power your in boat speakers. There's obviously several ways you could set this up depending on your budget and preference. I'd probably just add a 5 channel to power the towers and sub and call it done. I have this 5 ch amp and it's fantastic:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_39895_Polk-Audio-PA-D5000.5-PAD5000.5.html

I think I paid like $300 shipped on eBay though. It's tiny and class D so it barely gets warm at loud volumes and gives a decent amount of run-time on my single battery system. That would give you about 400 watts RMS to the tower speakers (Bridged on front 2 channels) and 200-500 watts to your sub depending on what impedance your voice coils are. I have a dual 2 ohm voice coil sub wired in parallel to mine so it's supposedly giving it 500 watts. If your sub is the more typical 4 ohms you'd only get about 200 watts RMS but you could eventually replace it with a dual 2 ohm woofer.

02ProstarSammyD
03-27-2012, 12:26 PM
I just installed the kicker 6500.2 speakers in a set of aerial dbl cans with a bridged clarion 720w amp. They sound great. For 300 shipped I don't think you're beating them. Its easy for people to say get wetsounds but seriously for 700 bucks I'm not willing to jump right now.

Cguse13
03-27-2012, 02:47 PM
well, i am currently waiting on my deck, and my tsunami cans are at powdercoating now... so hopefully next week ill be able to agree with you.

Cguse13
03-27-2012, 02:48 PM
i sitll havent made my mind up about amps yet, cant decide to go hi end, use what i have or do something like audiopipe.

mlawler34
04-02-2012, 05:11 PM
I have seriously been considering adding these to my current set up in the outer stock cans but still leaving the 4 coaxials in the middle. I should have enough power from the 3 amps in the boat to power everything still (new to me boat havent poked around much at all)

What is starting to really sell me on these is this video from youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pxJ2TM4uHg