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View Full Version : Rudder with wings?


Jeff Lyman
02-23-2012, 07:51 PM
Someone here must know what the purpose of those horizontal wings on ProStar rudders I've been seeing. If I have wings can I say my boat "flyes" when asked how fast it is!

kyfooter
02-23-2012, 08:44 PM
I believe they were there to help bring the bow of the boat down, to improve handling. My understanding was they were used in 98 and maybe 99. I vaguely recall an alternative solution was adding "hook" to the back bottom of the hull to accomplish the same objective and this was done in 99 or 2000.

vrsc
02-23-2012, 09:25 PM
I believe they were there to help bring the bow of the boat down, to improve handling. My understanding was they were used in 98 and maybe 99. I vaguely recall an alternative solution was adding "hook" to the back bottom of the hull to accomplish the same objective and this was done in 99 or 2000.

plus 1, band aide

Jeff Lyman
02-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Bringing the bow down sounds like it. Comparing my boat to other manufactures the bow does ride high. High bow means a low transom and larger wakes? Any other ideas?

jkski
02-24-2012, 06:12 AM
That rudder was used thru the 2002 production of the 197 and "the hook" was added to the 2002 TT 197's in place of the T rudder. In 2003 the regular production of the 197 adopted "the hook" and the T was a thing of the past.

Quite a few people, including myself, had the dealer add "the hook" to the hull of our 2002's to improve the wake and eliminate the need for the T rudder. "The Hook" was simply some additional fiberglass added to the rear of the hull making a slight downturn, which provided the necessary lift.

Hope this helps.

east tx skier
02-24-2012, 09:32 AM
I think the purposes of the rudder twofold: (1) bring the bow down and (2) do so while keeping the attitude constant. In other words, bow down, but don't let the transom come up so much as to allow chine lock or loss of control surface.

ahhudgins
02-24-2012, 08:11 PM
That rudder was used thru the 2002 production of the 197 and "the hook" was added to the 2002 TT 197's in place of the T rudder. In 2003 the regular production of the 197 adopted "the hook" and the T was a thing of the past.

Quite a few people, including myself, had the dealer add "the hook" to the hull of our 2002's to improve the wake and eliminate the need for the T rudder. "The Hook" was simply some additional fiberglass added to the rear of the hull making a slight downturn, which provided the necessary lift.

Hope this helps.

I need to add the hook to my 95 Maristar but my closest dealer never heard of doing this when I called last summer, so Im a little leery letting him experiment on my hull. I still have a nylon wedge glued to my hull that works great but I want a permanent solution to my porpoising. Any of you guys have a T-rudder that you want to get rid of? Id have to see if it would fit my boat of course.

h2oskiluvr
02-24-2012, 10:48 PM
I owned a 2000 Prostar 190 and it had the winged rudder. It also had the strakes added to the hull on both sides. What I have heard is the wings were added to the rudder because of a chine lock problem with the 98 hull. The strakes were added in 2000 and available as a retrofit for the older ones. I sold it for nearly what I bought it for and got a 2005 PS 197. Best thing I ever did. The ski wake on the 2000 190 was problematic to put it nicely at 22' off.

EricB
02-25-2012, 12:33 AM
Bow down or transom up, which ever way you prefer to look at it. I agree, it was (or is) a 'supplement' to the design, but so is a wing on a slalom ski fin.
But I will say that I have skiied behind almost everything from a 77 to a 2006 model MC (at shortline). My favorite is not the way older ones, but is also not the newer ones either. The 90's vintage boats were the best. All the others were either developments to the 90's hulls or compromises to the family boater.

h2oskiluvr
02-25-2012, 09:05 AM
Bow down or transom up, which ever way you prefer to look at it. I agree, it was (or is) a 'supplement' to the design, but so is a wing on a slalom ski fin.
But I will say that I have skiied behind almost everything from a 77 to a 2006 model MC (at shortline). My favorite is not the way older ones, but is also not the newer ones either. The 90's vintage boats were the best. All the others were either developments to the 90's hulls or compromises to the family boater.

EricB,

I felt the strakes and the wings on the 2000 were to make up for a hull that wasn't quite right. I did not think of it as an performance add on like I would a wing on a ski.

Why did I buy it then? Bottom line is I had no idea what I was doing. Thankfully I got a great price for it when I sold it.

Due to the chine-lock urban legend I also got a lot of crap from my buddies. They still talk about the "deathstar" I used to have. :)

EricB
02-25-2012, 11:51 AM
h2oskiluvr;
I have a 98 with the winged rudder and the hull inserts too. The inserts were made available in mid 98 (I think) and I don't remember the exact reasons for them. It may of had to do with wake shape. I believe there is info here on MCTT that we can search for.
I have not heard of chine lock problems on this hull design. That's news to me. I have not experienced any questionable handling characteristics to this point, but my driving style has also "mellowed" with age. My skiing is more agressive, my boat driving is not (figure that one out).
In regards to the slalom wake, I have several buddies I ski with on weekends, most of which have 2006 & newer 197's or 209's. Almost everybody prefers to ski behind my boat because of the wake.

Jeff Lyman
02-25-2012, 02:30 PM
I like to get some photos of those chine inserts, anybody got any? I read some old post about the hooked bottom. Considering the transom height of my boat if I can get it out of the water some more it will do two things. Cut down on the chine spray that at short ropes is not fun and reduce the wake height, maybe make it alittle softer wake.

My buddies 87, 190 PS has a much larger and firmer wake than my 93. It is so obvious that his transom is deep in the water at 32 to 34 and bow up. Im starting to believe this attitude has lots to do with wake performance. The Bu's I ski behind alot are VERY flat running boats and great wakes, I wont say any thing more here, hahaha.

I could add the 3" x 1\4 inch hook myself but think a transom plate would be more adjustable and removable if needed some day. Any one done any of this to a 91-94 PS hull?

h2oskiluvr
02-25-2012, 03:25 PM
h2oskiluvr;
I have a 98 with the winged rudder and the hull inserts too. The inserts were made available in mid 98 (I think) and I don't remember the exact reasons for them. It may of had to do with wake shape. I believe there is info here on MCTT that we can search for.
I have not heard of chine lock problems on this hull design. That's news to me. I have not experienced any questionable handling characteristics to this point, but my driving style has also "mellowed" with age. My skiing is more agressive, my boat driving is not (figure that one out).
In regards to the slalom wake, I have several buddies I ski with on weekends, most of which have 2006 & newer 197's or 209's. Almost everybody prefers to ski behind my boat because of the wake.

That's great. I am glad you like the wake. I never had a problem with chine lock. It was something my buddies liked to bring up though.

east tx skier
02-25-2012, 07:51 PM
The Hydrorail (inserts) were added in 99 forward and made available for 98s at that point. The winged rudder and 4th skeg firmed up the wake a bit too much. The hydrorails' purpose was to smooth out the wake.

The only "urban legend" is that it did not happen.