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captain planet
02-17-2012, 11:05 PM
I'm getting ready to build a second garage/lair for the boat. I have a modest budget and am getting prices for the construction. I hit my first major hurdle today and have a decision to make.

My plan was to build a barn style garage with a second story on a foundation. Well the price I got for the foundation and floor is more than I figured so I'm faced with either having a pole building construction with the barn roof and loft or a single story garage on a foundation building.

If this was your choice, what would you do?

snork
02-17-2012, 11:18 PM
Whatever you do make sure you have a drain system built into the slab

Ski-me
02-17-2012, 11:30 PM
What kind of bid did you get and what were the dimensions? I'm thinking about the same thing if we have any money left over after our major remodel......

madcityskier
02-17-2012, 11:34 PM
We were doing this once and found a taller "open" garage wasn't much more. Add the upstairs easily as time and funds permit.

captain planet
02-17-2012, 11:39 PM
What kind of bid did you get and what were the dimensions? I'm thinking about the same thing if we have any money left over after our major remodel......

24x28. 8k for the floor and foundation

Double D
02-18-2012, 12:13 AM
I'm getting ready to build a second garage/lair for the boat. I have a modest budget and am getting prices for the construction. I hit my first major hurdle today and have a decision to make.

My plan was to build a barn style garage with a second story on a foundation. Well the price I got for the foundation and floor is more than I figured so I'm faced with either having a pole building construction with the barn roof and loft or a single story garage on a foundation building.

If this was your choice, what would you do?

I guess it depends on a few things:
Is it attached to the house?
Are you trying to match the pitch of a roof on the house?
How many bids did you get? Confident it's a low number?
If you remember I did the same thing a few years ago. I was trying to match a pitch of a peak on my house so by doing that I gained an attic, and boy am I glad I did.

So If you ultimately find out you can't do both, and it's away from the house, I would keep the upstairs and not do the foundation.

BTW, I know a good concrete guy who did my drive if you need another bid.


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Jerseydave
02-18-2012, 12:37 AM
I have a pole building, 40 X 52, no loft or concrete floor (yet) but it's rock solid. I just use it for storage.

Whatever you go with, just a few suggestions:

12' tall doors (great for tower boats, tall trucks, etc.)
drains in floor if allowed (as suggested by snork)
Radiant heat in floor if you plan on doing work in the garage.
plumbing and install a mop sink
plenty of insulation

captain planet
02-18-2012, 08:59 AM
I guess it depends on a few things:
Is it attached to the house?
Are you trying to match the pitch of a roof on the house?
How many bids did you get? Confident it's a low number?
If you remember I did the same thing a few years ago. I was trying to match a pitch of a peak on my house so by doing that I gained an attic, and boy am I glad I did.

So If you ultimately find out you can't do both, and it's away from the house, I would keep the upstairs and not do the foundation.

BTW, I know a good concrete guy who did my drive if you need another bid.


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It is away from the house, not matching roof styles, and Mrs. Planet is pushing for the attic/loft as I am indifferent on the matter.

A buddy of mine in construction says the number is not bad. I'm going to get a second number, but really even if it is better by 10% a second floor is still out with my budget.

JohnnyB
02-18-2012, 09:13 AM
24x28. 8k for the floor and foundation

8k for the barn style complete w floor and foundation.....if this is for the whole package it is a fair price imho

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Ben
02-18-2012, 09:16 AM
Also, what all do you plan to use the garage for, and how long will you be there.

I usually think long term. I'd go with the slab and to 10' ceilings, and 8' doors. Likley 2x6 insulated walls. The 10' is nice in general, and will allow taller shelving / raacks for storage.

Then, the long term (5-15 year) plan would be to add on the top portion. I would put on the cheapest a$$ roof I could....

It would be easier to do this than to go back and convert the pole building to a foundation slab style building.

You could also do the foundation and skip the slab for now, but the incremental cost on that shouldn't be too much if the guy is there digging ad pouring the footer.

captain planet
02-18-2012, 09:19 AM
I have a pole building, 40 X 52, no loft or concrete floor (yet) but it's rock solid. I just use it for storage.

Whatever you go with, just a few suggestions:

12' tall doors (great for tower boats, tall trucks, etc.)
drains in floor if allowed (as suggested by snork)
Radiant heat in floor if you plan on doing work in the garage.
plumbing and install a mop sink
plenty of insulation

I am going to have at least 10 foot doors I think. I'm not worried about boats with towers, I won't have one of those, I'll always have a ski boat. ;)

How expensive is the radiant floor heat? I have thought about that.

2RLAKE
02-18-2012, 09:55 AM
the radiant heat will be a few grand. If you go without the 2nd floor, see if the truss manufacturer can make the ceiling as high as possible ... a provision for a future car lift. That foundation cost is about right ... i'm planning a 26x32 right now and its in the range at which i was looking.

we have gone back and worth on the 2nd floor ... i've decided against it ... dont need all that storage ... but i do plan for a car lift ... i'm getting my dad's 1930 Ford truck this spring
good luck

JohnnyB
02-18-2012, 10:07 AM
the radiant heat will be a few grand. If you go without the 2nd floor, see if the truss manufacturer can make the ceiling as high as possible ... a provision for a future car lift. That foundation cost is about right ... i'm planning a 26x32 right now and its in the range at which i was looking.

we have gone back and worth on the 2nd floor ... i've decided against it ... dont need all that storage ... but i do plan for a car lift ... i'm getting my dad's 1930 Ford truck this spring
good luck

Maybe I am misunderstanding, foundation of 8k? That is $6 and some change per sq ft? What are you doing for foundation?

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Table Rocker
02-18-2012, 10:45 AM
Could you build the loft model with the foundation sans loft and add the loft later?

SkiDog
02-18-2012, 11:00 AM
24x28. 8k for the floor and foundation

That comes to $11.91 per square foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you pouring GOLD or concrete? You should be able to pour a slab for NO MORE than $4.00 per square foot! I've been doing this a long time and that price is ridiculous!:(
One more thing, Make sure you put a 12' x 12' door in it!

SkiDog
02-18-2012, 11:03 AM
I am going to have at least 10 foot doors I think. I'm not worried about boats with towers, I won't have one of those, I'll always have a ski boat. ;)

How expensive is the radiant floor heat? I have thought about that.

NEVER say never!

Ski-me
02-18-2012, 11:32 AM
That comes to $11.91 per square foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you pouring GOLD or concrete? You should be able to pour a slab for NO MORE than $4.00 per square foot! I've been doing this a long time and that price is ridiculous!:(
One more thing, Make sure you put a 12' x 12' door in it!

For $4 would that include excavating the area, form foundation footers, install rebar, pour footer and then slab, with rebar?? What strength concrete....3,000psi? Just curious.

Also, for our house, they required putting down a layer of foamboard as insulation before pouring our living room slab. I don't know if it would be required for a barn but is it a decent approach to insulte the concrete floor from the earth?

SkiDog
02-18-2012, 11:53 AM
For $4 would that include excavating the area, form foundation footers, install rebar, pour footer and then slab, with rebar?? What strength concrete....3,000psi? Just curious.

Also, for our house, they required putting down a layer of foamboard as insulation before pouring our living room slab. I don't know if it would be required for a barn but is it a decent approach to insulte the concrete floor from the earth?

That depends on if you are doing a monolithic slab or digging footers for a block stemwall, then pouring the slab after the block wall is up. If you are doing mono, the just form a 12-18'' turndown on the edges and place rebar in the turndowns. If you have interior wall that will be loadbearing, then thicken the concrete under those walls. First pic is monolithic and the other pic is the footer with concrete block side walls then the slab pouted after the walls are finished. There should however, be some rebar in the turndown slab pic, but there isn't any shown.

Double D
02-18-2012, 12:17 PM
It is away from the house, not matching roof styles, and Mrs. Planet is pushing for the attic/loft as I am indifferent on the matter.

A buddy of mine in construction says the number is not bad. I'm going to get a second number, but really even if it is better by 10% a second floor is still out with my budget.

I guess I am having trouble understanding how much money a second floor costs. The truss design is the biggest thing. Then a bit more sq.ft. on plywood, felt paper and shingles. Everything else can wait for another time, like a floor, walls, ceiling, and stairs for that attic. No?


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-V-
02-18-2012, 04:05 PM
you ever thought about going to home depot, renting a bobcat, and doing most of the work yourself? they say that a price quote is actually about 25% materials, the rest is labor.........I think we should just have a good ol' fashioned barn raising at your house........I am pretty sure that a payment of bar-b-q and beer would be sufficiant for most......:D

captain planet
02-19-2012, 03:45 PM
you ever thought about going to home depot, renting a bobcat, and doing most of the work yourself? they say that a price quote is actually about 25% materials, the rest is labor.........I think we should just have a good ol' fashioned barn raising at your house........I am pretty sure that a payment of bar-b-q and beer would be sufficiant for most......:D

I can do a lot things, gut a bathroom, run electric, install plumbing, etc. However building an entire building....not so much. I have never been around much framing other than to build a wall or two. That being said, I have changed my outlook for this project based on getting ballpark building material quotes yesterday with formal quotes for materials to come this week. A foundation building is out due to budgetary reasons. I am going to go pole building structure with loft.

I appreciate the input. As always, the help on this board is above an beyond other forums that I have visited. Once construction has started and the building is up I'll post some pictures.

fskof
02-19-2012, 03:57 PM
check out this site http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/index.php

All of your questions will get answered!

mikeg205
02-19-2012, 07:02 PM
CP you really need to do this... one side of the PS and one for the X...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be2T_zWGZ5Q

captain planet
02-19-2012, 07:24 PM
CP you really need to do this... one side of the PS and one for the X...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be2T_zWGZ5Q

I like it. One side for the 197 and the other side for the 190. ;)

ksdaoski
02-19-2012, 07:35 PM
garage journal rocks, tons of great info. just be prepared to double or triple your budget, after seeing so many good ideas!!!

biggest complaint about my garage is height. Its a fairly large garage, like 34x34 or something. But the height is only like 9.5' which make it challenging to have a lift.

bdecker
02-21-2012, 01:59 PM
I know the budget is tight on this project, but adding an external garage that complements the house would be my priority, even if that meant delaying it.

I have heat in mine, and depending on what else you plan to put in there would determine where this falls in your priority list. I have the heat off 99.5% of the time. The one year I ran heat it seemed like there was a significant increase in rust on tools (luckily not the boat). Mine has big pickup and a tractor w/blower on it in the winter, both of which bring snow in. I find keeping it cold just works better. The snow melts much for gradually. I installed a vent system to remove moisture (goggle "WizzVent") and that helps too. If you can get a proper floor drain this would help. Also, get a big door instead of two smaller doors as it makes it infinitely more usable.

#47of100TeamMC
02-21-2012, 02:34 PM
Do you need a foundation to have a 2nd floor in your area per building codes? Or why the foundation and not a slab?

I am in WI and am building a 1200 sq ft 2nd garage with a 2nd floor loft, and I can get away with a concrete slab. Walls are 11' high. I had 2 bids on the Concrete and the more expensive one came back at $6600.

captain planet
02-21-2012, 02:37 PM
It is going to match in color however the roofline will be different. I am looking at barn-style trusses for my loft. The house is traditional gable.

I plan on having a floor drain and electric initially. Down the road I will add gas (once the house is converted to gas), water, cable, etc. I will have extra conduits run into the concrete and under ground from the house to the garage to facilitate easy future installations. I would like to eventually have an infrared heater at some point down the road. Getting the thing up and usable is the first goal, then I can tinker and tinker at my leisure.

captain planet
02-21-2012, 02:39 PM
Do you need a foundation to have a 2nd floor in your area per building codes? Or why the foundation and not a slab?

I am in WI and am building a 1200 sq ft 2nd garage with a 2nd floor loft, and I can get away with a concrete slab. Walls are 11' high. I had 2 bids on the Concrete and the more expensive one came back at $6600.

Not unless they have changed. My parents have a 30x40 pole building with a loft 3 miles from my house.

captain planet
03-27-2012, 02:05 PM
Well the day has finally come. The original scope of work has changed a little and I have reduced this to a single story building. Construction starts on Friday for my 24X28 garage. I have permits in hand, utility locates placed, and pending visits by the zoning and building departments. Should be fun!

Double D
03-27-2012, 02:19 PM
Great news for you CP! My neighbor is half way through his build.

Remember, if you need anything let me know. Also, the concrete guy I recommended was $400 under the other guy he has bid.


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captain planet
03-29-2012, 04:53 PM
First snafu. My electric line runs right under where the garage is going to be built. The poles will miss the line. The question is, will the building inspector make me move the line if the poles will not interfere with it? Inspector went home early so I can't ask him and my lumber is arriving tomorrow. If I have to move the line I would like to hold off the lumber (scheduled for arrival tomorrow) because I'm not going to be able to move the electric that quickly.

I can see this is going to be a fun project. :rolleyes:

SkiDog
03-29-2012, 05:00 PM
First snafu. My electric line runs right under where the garage is going to be built. The poles will miss the line. The question is, will the building inspector make me move the line if the poles will not interfere with it? Inspector went home early so I can't ask him and my lumber is arriving tomorrow. If I have to move the line I would like to hold off the lumber (scheduled for arrival tomorrow) because I'm not going to be able to move the electric that quickly.

I can see this is going to be a fun project. :rolleyes:

Welcome to building contracting 101:D

stuartmcnair
03-30-2012, 12:37 PM
here you would have to move it...my guess is there too

BARE5
03-30-2012, 12:43 PM
Yes you will have to move it. However, while your doing that, put a sub panel just for garage in the garage. Makes it easier down the road.

captain planet
07-28-2012, 10:45 AM
Well, concrete was supposed to be about two weeks down the road, but they called yesterday and said they would be here this morning. The first concrete truck just left with a couple more on the way! 8p

SkiDog
07-28-2012, 11:14 AM
Well, concrete was supposed to be about two weeks down the road, but they called yesterday and said they would be here this morning. The first concrete truck just left with a couple more on the way! 8p

Did you move the Electrical line?

captain planet
07-28-2012, 11:26 AM
Nope, didn't need to. It is 2 feet below the bottom of the garage.

SkiDog
07-28-2012, 11:35 AM
Nope, didn't need to. It is 2 feet below the bottom of the garage.

I ASSume then it is in conduit.

captain planet
07-28-2012, 11:42 AM
Nope, direct bury when the house was built in 1978.

Double D
07-28-2012, 02:51 PM
Well the day has finally come. The original scope of work has changed a little and I have reduced this to a single story building. Construction starts on Friday for my 24X28 garage. I have permits in hand, utility locates placed, and pending visits by the zoning and building departments. Should be fun!

Which means you didn't barefoot this morning.... :(


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captain planet
07-28-2012, 03:36 PM
Which means you didn't barefoot this morning.... :(


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Correct, but I have concrete in my garage the start of the driveway.:o:)

JohnnyB
07-29-2012, 02:25 PM
Put a moisture barrier under your concrete floor?

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captain planet
07-30-2012, 01:14 PM
No. I put a footer drain around the perimeter and have sand and gravel soils with very minimal fines. Moisture won't be problem.

atlfootr
07-30-2012, 06:39 PM
ALWAYS go BIG!
That is bigger than you think you need !