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81SNS
02-14-2012, 12:59 PM
I am wanting to modify my trailer for my 81 stars and stripes and get away from the flat bar system, to try and do something more user friendly for 1 person loading, I have searched and read alot on the boat buddy system, I have never seen or used one in person, one question I have on it is after you pull in and it latches, is the still enough room in the bow loop to attach the winch strap? Also if I go for the traditional bow roller/winch set up has anyone ran into problems when loading putting to much tension on the winch strap and breaking it? I have (first time I loaded) with the flat bar style, but I think that was because the winch is mounted low and is pulling more "down" rather than pulling toward the tongue.

Stritt
02-14-2012, 01:04 PM
Yes, once it latches there is still room to put on your winch strap....you will probably need to install the new eye loop for the boat....maybe not. See link for picture.

http://www.etrailer.com/Boat-Trailer-Parts/Kodiak/KBB2.html

bjames
02-14-2012, 01:38 PM
I have been using the Boat buddy for the last 4 years starting with my Moomba, then X25. Personally I could never be without one. I drive onto the trailer until I hear the click, shut off the engine, anf my wife drives the truck out of the water and parks it so we can finish buckeling everything up. Its great becuase by the time the trailer is in the water, the boat is pulled out within seconds. The only negative is that you can do damage if you drive up too hard, and it can cause scuffs near the bow eye. Also You have to be sure that the trailer is at proper depth in order to prevent scratching/premature wear to the trailer bunks.

barefoot
02-14-2012, 01:48 PM
Here's something that Brian did...it's found in the FAQ's

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=112627&postcount=17

Great solution to the idiot bar...

Cloaked
02-14-2012, 07:25 PM
I am wanting to modify my trailer for my 81 stars and stripes and get away from the flat bar system, to try and do something more user friendly for 1 person loading, I have searched and read alot on the boat buddy system, I have never seen or used one in person, one question I have on it is after you pull in and it latches, is the still enough room in the bow loop to attach the winch strap? Also if I go for the traditional bow roller/winch set up has anyone ran into problems when loading putting to much tension on the winch strap and breaking it? I have (first time I loaded) with the flat bar style, but I think that was because the winch is mounted low and is pulling more "down" rather than pulling toward the tongue.
That bar is the best thing going for safety. The winch is not for loading your boat on that trailer. It's for securing the bow. Your trailer is specifically made for drive-on / drive-off, no winching involved. From all that you say here, you are going about the path of most resistance when launching / loading your boat. Learn how to work with your trailer. It's an easy task at hand with one person.

If you ever have a front or head collision, the bar will hold your boat in place from coming forward. Personally I would not trust a boat buddy to keep the boat out of the back end of my vehicle in a crash. Been there. If you ever experience (see and hear) a boat wreck in a traffic situation you'll know what I mean. And I will also say this, if you are not securing your boat with a strap or cinches of some kind, assuming the boat will not come off of the trailer because of the guide poles and the perceived weight of the boat, you would be entirely wrong. Those poles will bend like a wet toothpick. Always secure the back as well as the front.

Each to their (your) own. I can unload or load that style trailer in less than 60 seconds in either direction, one person (me) doing the work. It's easy as can be for my preference on keeping the bar for my trailers in that era of boat / trailer.

Take it for what it's worth to you. I share my experience from 1979. No tie-down... the basement-garage based dealer said it didn't need a strap. "That boat won't go anywhere." lol...



.

03geetee
02-14-2012, 09:09 PM
Gotta agree here, I ALWAYS run two straps off the platform brackets to the trailer in a criss cross fashion and snug them down AFTER the boat is secure with the bar. I didnt for a minute think that going over bumps or bridges or hell getting in a wreck that the boat was secure with nothing out back.

Dont be fooled spend 100 bucks and do it right. Bar is a pain sometimes but it works.

JTR

81SNS
02-15-2012, 10:00 AM
That bar is the best thing going for safety. The winch is not for loading your boat on that trailer. It's for securing the bow. Your trailer is specifically made for drive-on / drive-off, no winching involved. From all that you say here, you are going about the path of most resistance when launching / loading your boat. Learn how to work with your trailer. It's an easy task at hand with one person.
.

I agree that the bar is good, but it is a pain! Let me tell you my loading procedure and hopefully yall can tell me where I am going wrong, I back the trailer in wetting the bunks and stopping with the tops of the fenders just at water level, drive boat on trailer, once the bow has aligned in the front V, I power it on up with someone standing on the ground up with the bar in hand, ready to put it over the bow loop when I get it far enough forward, sometimes this takes a pretty good amount of powering, once it latches the boat immediately slides backward, resting on the loop,( which makes it almost impossible to remove the flat bar the next time you are launching, I usually have to back in so deep the boat is floating to get it to release,) I have no idea how this could be done with one person, once I powered up to where I think the flat bar might go over the bow loop, when I let off the boat will slide back 6"-12" with no power on it, making it impossible for a 1 man job, and I really dont like applying alot of throttle with someone standing in front of the boat. Also if by chance you have to load with no power, that is also a terrible ordeal trying to get the boat forward enough to load with the winch pulling down instead of forward,

CantRepeat
02-15-2012, 10:49 AM
There is a thread on here about doing the conversion from the bar to the boat buddy mount. The person that did it just mirrored what comes on the newer style trailers and there is nothing wrong with that.

You do need to add a strap to the front as a secondary securing point for sure. The boat buddy is not designed to be the only securing method for the boat.

Post number 14 has a before and after photo of the conversion. I can not locate the thread on doing the conversion at this time.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=24609

CantRepeat
02-15-2012, 11:07 AM
That bar is the best thing going for safety. The winch is not for loading your boat on that trailer. It's for securing the bow. Your trailer is specifically made for drive-on / drive-off, no winching involved. From all that you say here, you are going about the path of most resistance when launching / loading your boat. Learn how to work with your trailer. It's an easy task at hand with one person.


Then why is the strap so long and have a handle on it. I'm sure it has a dual purpose of loading and securing the boat. Heck the newer models have two speeds on them so they can pull a heavier boat with less effort.

81SNS
02-15-2012, 12:40 PM
I agree 100% that the winch isnt for winching the boat on, and I have only used it for that once, that was when my Pertronix module bit the dust, and I used it to help pull on the trailer, but it will only get you within about 12" of latching the flat bar on, because of where it is mounted it pulls down not forward, that is the only time I have ever had the strap pulled out,

Sodar
02-15-2012, 12:44 PM
http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=112627&postcount=17


Winches are not made to load the boats on trailers... I think I have heard it all now!

CantRepeat
02-15-2012, 02:12 PM
http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=112627&postcount=17


Winches are not made to load the boats on trailers... I think I have heard it all now!

Who would have thought, huh?

cjprostar
02-15-2012, 07:45 PM
I've only had my new to me 88 prostar in the water 2 times, but I spent last Saturday cutting the winch and bar off the trailer. I replaced it with a adjustable stand and winch that will pull horizontally. I have not tried it yet, but I believe that when I let off the gas and it slips back I can crank the winch a few rounds and be done. I was afraid somebody was going to get their fingers mashed as it was.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-15-2012, 08:11 PM
That bar is the best thing going for safety. The winch is not for loading your boat on that trailer. It's for securing the bow. Your trailer is specifically made for drive-on / drive-off, no winching involved. From all that you say here, you are going about the path of most resistance when launching / loading your boat. Learn how to work with your trailer. It's an easy task at hand with one person.

If you ever have a front or head collision, the bar will hold your boat in place from coming forward. Personally I would not trust a boat buddy to keep the boat out of the back end of my vehicle in a crash. Been there. If you ever experience (see and hear) a boat wreck in a traffic situation you'll know what I mean. And I will also say this, if you are not securing your boat with a strap or cinches of some kind, assuming the boat will not come off of the trailer because of the guide poles and the perceived weight of the boat, you would be entirely wrong. Those poles will bend like a wet toothpick. Always secure the back as well as the front.

Each to their (your) own. I can unload or load that style trailer in less than 60 seconds in either direction, one person (me) doing the work. It's easy as can be for my preference on keeping the bar for my trailers in that era of boat / trailer.

Take it for what it's worth to you. I share my experience from 1979. No tie-down... the basement-garage based dealer said it didn't need a strap. "That boat won't go anywhere." lol...



.

...........

thatsmrmastercraft
02-15-2012, 08:34 PM
I've only had my new to me 88 prostar in the water 2 times, but I spent last Saturday cutting the winch and bar off the trailer. I replaced it with a adjustable stand and winch that will pull horizontally. I have not tried it yet, but I believe that when I let off the gas and it slips back I can crank the winch a few rounds and be done. I was afraid somebody was going to get their fingers mashed as it was.

My trailer (LM Tandem) has a winch that pulls horizontal. I can winch the boat onto the trailer when the trailer is backed in to the same depth as when we power-load it. Once the boat is out of the water, it will not move the boat again.

cjprostar
02-15-2012, 08:50 PM
I don't think mine will move it out of the water either. I just wanted it to pull up the last 6" before I pull out of the water. I was having to keep power on it to hold it up tight while my son latched the bar. Just did'nt feel safe.

C J

thatsmrmastercraft
02-15-2012, 08:52 PM
If the boat wants to slide back down, it sounds like your trailer is in too deep. Or you are dealing with a steep launch.

cjprostar
02-15-2012, 09:03 PM
To tell the truth, it could be either but the fenders were out a few inches on two different ramps. I may have jumped the gun but it's done now so we will see. I guess I'm just used to I/O.

CJ

thatsmrmastercraft
02-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Deeper ramps make it a little more difficult to hit the sweet spot for loading the boat since as little as one foot shallower of deeper can have a big impact. It is all about practice. When I first got my boat, I went to the boat launch on a weekday morning so there would be little traffic to tie up getting things figured out. Kind of like learning how to steer and back up.

Cloaked
02-15-2012, 10:00 PM
I agree that the bar is good, but it is a pain! Let me tell you my loading procedure and hopefully yall can tell me where I am going wrong, I back the trailer in wetting the bunks and stopping with the tops of the fenders just at water level, drive boat on trailer, once the bow has aligned in the front V, I power it on up with someone standing on the ground up with the bar in hand, ready to put it over the bow loop when I get it far enough forward, You are still using two people at this point. That is OK but you're still cheatin' :D sometimes this takes a pretty good amount of powering, once it latches the boat immediately slides backward, resting on the loop,( which makes it almost impossible to remove the flat bar the next time you are launching, I usually have to back in so deep the boat is floating to get it to release,) This will be the case for most of the time. The next time you launch, get the trailer to the water and (once you know the battery is good with a starter bump) remove the hook from the bow eye. Back on into the water at the depth you described (that is correct) and before unloading with reverse-throttle, throttle forward just enough to allow the boat to move forward and that will allow the bar to drop with no other assistance needed. Don't be shy about using the engine throttle for maneuvering. These tugs will take it. Now you have eliminated the need to back in too deep. A note here; backing in too deep floats the rear (raises), consequently lowering the bow eye and causing it to drag across the top of the cradle, tearing the carpet of damaging the cradle. You should not have to go deep. However, when working with a vehicle driver, my driver knows that once she feels me reverse the throttle and start to back off the trailer, she gives me a second to clear the bow eye beyond the cradle then backs in further to make launching easy on the boat and trailer. I have no idea how this could be done with one person, once I powered up to where I think the flat bar might go over the bow loop, when I let off the boat will slide back 6"-12" with no power on it, making it impossible for a 1 man job, When loading, throttle the boat to a point forward beyond the position for the bar to fit. Leave a slight forward throttle on the engine, holding the boat in place where it has over-ran the preferred position for the bar. Again. don't be shy about throttling, but find a smooth motion and don't get radical about it. Get up off your seat, over the windshield, plop down on your stomach, reach down and get the bar in hand. When in said position, wiggle your weight on the bow and the boat will overcome the throttle-hold position and slide backwards. Place the bar over the bow eye, attach the hook in place, switch the engine off and head out. You can do this all in one smooth motion and you will get this down to a science in just a few practices. May sound cumbersome but it has worked for me for 33 years and counting of Mastercraft boating . Sixty seconds or less and I'm on the trailer, hooked, and getting out of the way. and I really dont like applying alot of throttle with someone standing in front of the boat. Also if by chance you have to load with no power, that is also a terrible ordeal trying to get the boat forward enough to load with the winch pulling down instead of forward When you have to load with no power (been there too, way too many times) drop the trailer in deep enough to float the boat up to the position that loading allows. Use the hook to secure the boat in place (even though it is not in the proper place) and ease up the ramp. Once off the ramp and in the parking zone, find a level spot or even downhill slope and hit the brakes forcing the boat forward on the wet bunks. It will move once you find out what it takes for braking. May take a few tries but the boat will move right up against the cradle.

Take this for what it is worth to you. You'll come to realize you can launch and load with just one person very easy. I prefer to do this routine by myself even with a second person. I leave the driver in the truck and that's all for me.

Once you learn to work with this or similar methodology, you'll see how easy it becomes.

You already know the winch does not load the boat. It's a drive-off / drive-on application. For those that think otherwise, keep on winching... Unless one has owned and operated this era of boat / trailer, it remains a mystery as to why a winch will not work properly in this setup, or in my preference, as a path of least resistance.

The 81 model is a good boat. It should serve you well for a long time. Nice slalom wake and a nice trick wake too.

Good luck. $0.02

.

81SNS
02-15-2012, 10:21 PM
I follow you Cloaked, and understand your procedure 100%, yes most of our lakes ramps are pretty steep, and I know that doesnt help any, the one concern I have in your procedure is the powering forward part, I am usually powering REALLY hard just to get to the slot in the bar, I dont know about getting it past the point, its like all I can do to just get to the slot, maybe I need to play with water level a little bit more......

Cloaked
02-15-2012, 10:26 PM
I follow you Cloaked, and understand your procedure 100%, yes most of our lakes ramps are pretty steep, and I know that doesnt help any, the one concern I have in your procedure is the powering forward part, I am usually powering REALLY hard just to get to the slot in the bar, I dont know about getting it past the point, its like all I can do to just get to the slot, maybe I need to play with water level a little bit more......I understand the steep ramps and have had to use them myself. Get your boat in postion by approaching the trailer and let the boat float up into the bunks in neutral, allowing the bow of the boat to settle onto the bunks. Bump the throttle to get a feel for the rudder position, then in one smooth swift motion, take it forward. as we have discussed. You'll find your own comfortable way of doing this. Be sure and don't get the trailer too deep. Consider only dropping the trailer in to about 2/3 - 3/4 the way up onto the fenders. This will allow a bit more of the bunks to be available as a runway for the boat and not so much as heading onto the bunks at a steeper angle, requiring a hard throttle.

Your ramps sound like Center Hill or Dale Hollow.. :D