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Stx221
01-24-2012, 04:26 PM
As you all might have seen in the "What have you done to your Mastercraft Today" thread, I am a new owner of a very nice Prostar 190 with an LT1 and Powerslot.

It has 791 hours on it, and has been quite well maintained. Oil changes every 50 hours, over the last couple years a rebuilt alternator, water pump and starter. Has a new impeller with ~5 hours on it (it has been sprayed with white lithium grease for the winter). No blistering on the hull, prop has no dings in it or play in the driveshaft. The steering feels good, didn't bind at all. It has a few minor spots where the seams on the vinyl are splitting. Approx. 2" spot on the engine cover under the handle and an approx 6" spot on the rear sundeck. I plan to have these re-stiched before summer.

I have not had it in the water yet, but I did hear it run for about 10 seconds before I bought it. It fired up easily and had a smooth idle. We shut it off quickly as we didn't have a water supply and it has been winterized with all the water drained from the block and manifolds. No antifreeze has been added as the previous owner has always "dry-blocked" (as he called it) for winter storage. The previous owner really seemed to know his stuff as well as the boat. He has owned it from 1996-now and put about 740 of the 791 hours on it.

This is a first boat for me as well as a first Mastercraft. I seem to have always been around a boat at least one week or weekend a year visiting somebody on a lake or ocean for as long as I can remember (though this makes me an almost complete boat amateur, I can still ski and wakeboard halfway reasonably well). I am excited to finally be able to get out more than one week or weekend a year and enjoy skiing and boarding as well as just general lounging on a lake with friends this summer.

I know that come springtime I need to repair the fuel level sending unit as well as re-install the manifold plugs, knock sensor and plug on the block as well as the bilge plug. I will need to tighten up the impeller housing, re-connect all the hoses for the raw water cooling system. At that point, I think I will hook it up to a water supply (garden hose) and let it run in the driveway for a bit before taking it to any lake to test its buoyancy. :D

After the first day out, I will change the oil/filter and fuel filter. The trans fluid is red and doesn't smell burnt at all, though it has been a couple years since it has been changed. Is it worth it to drain and fill?? Does anyone have any suggestions on best practice/best tools (suction pump or anything like that) for oil changes/trans fluid changes? I like to consider myself a pretty good "backyard" mechanic, so all work and maintenance will be performed by myself.

I plan to take a boaters safety course as soon as I can. Then once it warms up, it will be time to hit the water and get out into the middle of a lake and practice my driving. I am thinking most likely around an orange life vest, just to really get the feel of slow speed turning, backing, and docking. Then I plan to move on to "rescuing a downed skier" and turning back to get them, again using an orange life vest that a passenger throws and yells "skier down" or something to that effect. These first 2-3 days out will just be for getting a feel for the boat, no extra passengers (1 or 2 just in case) and definitely nobody getting hauled around behind the boat.

I think I have my agenda all planned out in regards to the next few months of winter and then getting on the water in April or May. Come March, if we have an abnormally warm Saturday or Sunday (45 degree day) and there is no ice on a lake, would there be any implication to putting the boat in the water for a few hours and then coming home and draining all the water again to re-winterize it? Maybe just get it running in the driveway on a hose and then swap the raw water pickup hose to a 5 gallon bucket full of -100 RV antifreeze just in case the temps drop below freezing again? Shut off the engine before the bucket is completely empty so that there is antifreeze in the block and manifolds.

I will also need to invest in some items: Ski rope, Life vests/jackets, skis, wakeboard and tube to start. (I know some here despise tubes, but I find them fun and I think one could provide great entertainment for anyone that goes out with me. I will stick to skiing and wakeboarding though. :D If you have any suggestions for these, please let me know!

If you are still with me after all that and want to provide any insight, comments, suggestions or concerns they would be much appreciated.

Nick (Stx221)

Edit: Bringing this picture over from the other thread as well. I need to take a couple more once springtime rolls around.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/9e3d921f.jpg

03geetee
01-24-2012, 05:06 PM
Just a quick question on the engine oil, ask the previous owner if he did a filter and oil change before winterizing as this is common place in the boating world. After the last run of the year you get the boat home, while the oil is still warm since the boat oil is on the heavier side and takes a while to drain when cold, drain it then while you begin doing the other necessary items on the list. By the time you are done you refill it with fresh oil and that way you are not only ready for spring, you dont have oil with a bunch of dirt and junk in your crankcase all winter sitting. This goes for the trans too, which in all seriousness I bet you could leave for the upcoming year. When you do feel like changing it get it warm, and usually a small cordless drill pump with the right size tube down the dipstick tube does the trick. Mark a line on the container you are pumping into when you get it all out, dispose of the old fluid and then fill the container up right to the line with new stuff. That way you never get it wrong or under/over fill it and your good to go.

One tip someone may not have told you NEVER put your transmission into gear out of water while on the garden hose or fake lake. The propshaft lubricates while in water and if its dried out all year and you fire it up in the spring you can damage things by spinning the shaft out of water. Wait til you trailer it down to the lake the first time and test the gears on the trailer slowly to make sure everything is good. Check the fluid after a run and see where you stand.

As for the impellar there are a couple different views on this so pick what makes you sleep at night. Even with only 5 hours on it I would change it come spring. It sits in a smashed position all winter and unless you rotate the motor every now and then (who does) those rubber fins on that section may be a little weaker come spring or just deformed. For the simply cost of around 10 bucks pull the old one out, keep it as a spare on the boat at all times, and replace with new. That 10 dollar part can torch a motor if it fails, why risk it? Others go seasons with out doing it, but it helps me sleep and I like doing it cuz it gets me in the garage with a beer.

Hope this helps dont forget to keep that battery unhooked for winter and toss a battery tender on her!

JTR

Stx221
01-24-2012, 05:25 PM
Thanks! That is some great info.

The oil/filter had NOT been done prior to going away for the winter. So I figure one outing will get the oil nice and hot and then get it home and change it then. I had not heard about not putting the trans in gear out of water, I will make sure not to do that! I will thoroughly test the transmission out while still on the trailer though. A couple quick and gentle tests of reverse and forward while still hooked up would be nice to make sure it all works properly before launching it for the maiden voyage.

Does anyone ever just pull the impeller out of the pump for the winter and keep it in a plastic bag, lubed with some lithium grease to keep it from drying out? Would this be a beneficial move as it seems to be quite easy to take out?

Also, where is a good place to order a new impeller? Or order any new parts in general as I don't have a MC dealer anywhere close. I like getting out to the garage for a beer and wrenching (or behind the house for this winter as I don't have garage space to put it in:() It has a good cover on it that goes over a frame which I built out of PVC that goes windshield to rear seat. It creates a tent like shape to keep snow from collecting on it. Over the frame and canvas cover is a tarp that is tied under the hull. I think it should be a good setup for a couple months.

The battery is currently out of the boat and will be put on a charger/tender in the next few days.

gweaver
01-24-2012, 05:34 PM
Congrats on the new boat. I just bought my first boat this past August and after getting all the fiddly details sorted, am looking forward to getting out on the water. I'm trying to teach myself the basic maintenance, so I'll be looking forward to see how you decide to progress with the trans fluid change. I'm thinking that a fluid pump might be the way to go, but maybe an expert will chime in.

I think the impeller should be pretty easy to find. I bought mine at a local marine store- might have even been West Marine. Not sure, but they're not a 'hard to find' part.

As far as water toys, I just kept an eye on Craigslist. I picked up a wakeboard, set of skis, ski trainer for my kids and a knee board, for under $200 total. It's worth checking it out.

Just a few more issues to address with the boat, then hopefully a water test.
Good luck with yours.
G

mikeg205
01-24-2012, 05:49 PM
I take my impeller out every season and spray with 303. 303 maintains the plasticizers in the impeller rubber. Also use Shell T6 and NAPA Gold 1069 oil filter. The T6 is synthetic a bit cheaper than Mobil 1 but has the right amount of zinc/phosphorous - another great discussion on these many threads. +1 on the tranny NEVER run when on land - however - the shaft may turn when the trans is cold. I have my son hold the shaft with while its idling.

I spray 303 into my strut cutlass bearing to keep the plastic/rubber fresh. Had some scaling in there so a dose of CLR cleaned that out...Another thing you'll want to check is if the thermostats were ever changed - as well as the hoses. There's a thread here that discusses that the exhaust hoses can melt internally and clog while they look good on the outside.

You'll have fun reading thru the what have you done to your mastercraft lately... can't wait for engine pics....

Thrall
01-24-2012, 08:59 PM
www.skidim.com, or any of the online mc dealers, West Marine, etc for basic parts. Impeller is a Johnson #812.
They're about $40 and I typically replace every season regardless of hours. I got a whole pile of "good" used impellers, and a couple I've pulled that were damaged with under 50hrs on them. Cheap insurance.
Oil filter, Napa/Wix 1069. Use 15W40 diesel oil (or whatever you want, not starting an oil discussion here:D). Change the fuel filter(s) annually. One by the engine and mine had one on the line on top of the tank too. I only changed the one on the tank once, because I didn't know it was there for 5 years!
Don't think it matters if you pull the impeller during the winter or not, what ever makes you sleep better. I used to, but on my Vdrive after the contortions required to replace it, I pop a new one in immediately and seal it up for the winter so I don't have to do it again for a year.
like geetee said, drill operated pump for the engine oil and to suck out the trans fluid works great with a couple different fittings and hoses from the hdwr store.
Great boat, I had a '96 just like yours (not a 'slot) and loved it, in some ways more than my X2.

mikeg205
01-24-2012, 09:56 PM
www.skidim.com, or any of the online mc dealers, West Marine, etc for basic parts. Impeller is a Johnson #812.
They're about $40 and I typically replace every season regardless of hours. I got a whole pile of "good" used impellers, and a couple I've pulled that were damaged with under 50hrs on them. Cheap insurance.
Oil filter, Napa/Wix 1069. Use 15W40 diesel oil (or whatever you want, not starting an oil discussion here:D). Change the fuel filter(s) annually. One by the engine and mine had one on the line on top of the tank too. I only changed the one on the tank once, because I didn't know it was there for 5 years!
Don't think it matters if you pull the impeller during the winter or not, what ever makes you sleep better. I used to, but on my Vdrive after the contortions required to replace it, I pop a new one in immediately and seal it up for the winter so I don't have to do it again for a year.
like geetee said, drill operated pump for the engine oil and to suck out the trans fluid works great with a couple different fittings and hoses from the hdwr store.
Great boat, I had a '96 just like yours (not a 'slot) and loved it, in some ways more than my X2.


Oh come on.... there's nothing good like on off season oil debate...:D:D:D:D:D:rolleyes:

03geetee
01-24-2012, 10:24 PM
What ever oil I use (wont start debates here) ok I will LOL!

Rotella 15/40 with MotorCraft FL1A.

No matter what I always toss this in...

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI11_1GLkiK7IFRG7EIQu-rirAVco8_bV8RBaiVGFsNm1_YRw__g

Is what the previous owner did, and what I have continued to do. 2700+ hrs later still gets my fat *** out of the water on one ski rather quickly.

JTR

jhall0711
01-24-2012, 11:01 PM
Now that this is an oil debate.... Isnt the LT1 a roller cam anyway... thus not needing the zinc as vitally as say the flat tappet Fords a lot of us have?

Honestly not trying to sound too sarcastic... pretty curious....

gotta_ski
01-25-2012, 03:59 AM
mgorczak1, what do you mean you have your son hold the prop shaft from turning while its running in the drive way? You don't mean you've got him under the boat holding the prop, do you?

CantRepeat
01-25-2012, 07:39 AM
mgorczak1, what do you mean you have your son hold the prop shaft from turning while its running in the drive way? You don't mean you've got him under the boat holding the prop, do you?

Don't worry, he'll probably sue when something goes wrong.

mikeg205
01-25-2012, 10:04 AM
mgorczak1, what do you mean you have your son hold the prop shaft from turning while its running in the drive way? You don't mean you've got him under the boat holding the prop, do you?

no....not underboat... inside boat... the trans turns very slowly when in neutral when engine is cold... you can stop the shaft from turn "In neutral" with your thumb and fore finger...

mikeg205
01-25-2012, 10:05 AM
Don't worry, he'll probably sue when something goes wrong.

very nice can't - ugh.... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Stx221
01-25-2012, 10:55 AM
Wow, there has been some great info in this thread so far. Thanks!

gweaver, I will keep my eyes on craigslist for some towable toys. That is where I found the MC, so maybe I will have some more luck coming across something like those.

Personally, I really like Napa Gold (WIX) oil filters in the cars, so thanks for providing the right Napa Gold # for me! Do you guys have the NAPA Part # for the fuel filters? A couple searches and I came up with nothing. I will look into a drill operated pump or something similar for the oil/transmission fluid changes.

I may do a trans fluid change early in the season since Dexron is cheap stuff for a couple quarts. I know typically Dexron III is backwards compatible with Dexron II. I know the manual calls for the II, so I am assuming it is safe to run the Dex III? Speaking of the transmission, I will make sure to never let it turn while on land!! Since curiosity killed that cat (I haven't had the boat in gear and out of water, please don't worry), what kind of damage can be done? Is it all in the driveshaft seals, or is there a possibility of internal transmission wear?

I will order an impeller before the season starts and keep it on hand. I need to tighten the impeller cover before running the motor, so I will pull it and see what it looks like. If I see any cracking or wear, it will get replaced. If it looks good, I will have a brand new spare on the boat waiting!

MIskier
01-25-2012, 11:05 AM
Look at ski-it-again.com for all your water toys, and skidim.com for parts. Putting the boat into gear while out of the water will melt the cutlass bearing in the strut which is water lubricated.

mikeg205
01-25-2012, 11:05 AM
Wow, there has been some great info in this thread so far. Thanks!

gweaver, I will keep my eyes on craigslist for some towable toys. That is where I found the MC, so maybe I will have some more luck coming across something like those.

Personally, I really like Napa Gold (WIX) oil filters in the cars, so thanks for providing the right Napa Gold # for me! Do you guys have the NAPA Part # for the fuel filters? A couple searches and I came up with nothing. I will look into a drill operated pump or something similar for the oil/transmission fluid changes.

I may do a trans fluid change early in the season since Dexron is cheap stuff for a couple quarts. I know typically Dexron III is backwards compatible with Dexron II. I know the manual calls for the II, so I am assuming it is safe to run the Dex III? Speaking of the transmission, I will make sure to never let it turn while on land!! Since curiosity killed that cat (I haven't had the boat in gear and out of water, please don't worry), what kind of damage can be done? Is it all in the driveshaft seals, or is there a possibility of internal transmission wear?

I will order an impeller before the season starts and keep it on hand. I need to tighten the impeller cover before running the motor, so I will pull it and see what it looks like. If I see any cracking or wear, it will get replaced. If it looks good, I will have a brand new spare on the boat waiting!

Fuel Filter - Napa 23481.

There are a number of ways to pull the impeller.... try the two paint can openers first IMO. I I have a friend with an X2 he uses a pair of channel locks. I keep the impeller shaft well lubed so it comes out very easy now...

On the Trans I use Castrol Dexron VI...that works well too backwards compatible...I change every season...

03geetee, cloaked, east tx skier, would probably have best advice for your tranny.

mikeg205
01-25-2012, 11:11 AM
mgorczak1, what do you mean you have your son hold the prop shaft from turning while its running in the drive way? You don't mean you've got him under the boat holding the prop, do you?

After thinking about it more...I can really see why you would think this...

this thread talks about sticking a screwdriver in it......

03geetee
01-25-2012, 11:18 AM
Now that this is an oil debate.... Isnt the LT1 a roller cam anyway... thus not needing the zinc as vitally as say the flat tappet Fords a lot of us have?

Honestly not trying to sound too sarcastic... pretty curious....

Not applicable to his boat really, but doubt it would hurt.

STX I would call the previous owner and use what he used in the tranny if its still working great and not leaking why change it right?

JTR

mikeg205
01-25-2012, 12:29 PM
What ever oil I use (wont start debates here) ok I will LOL!

Rotella 15/40 with MotorCraft FL1A.

No matter what I always toss this in...

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI11_1GLkiK7IFRG7EIQu-rirAVco8_bV8RBaiVGFsNm1_YRw__g

Is what the previous owner did, and what I have continued to do. 2700+ hrs later still gets my fat *** out of the water on one ski rather quickly.

JTR

2700 hours...now I have go buy some of this stuff from my GM 5.7 TBI. Now that's a testimonial.

03geetee
01-25-2012, 04:39 PM
2700 hours...now I have go buy some of this stuff from my GM 5.7 TBI. Now that's a testimonial.

Day I brought it home hence old carpet and overall disgustingness...
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/o3geetee/022-1.jpg

Aint the prettiest motor out there, but for now she is doing fine so I am not cracking her open and cleaning her up until I have to. Cannot complain these ol 351s really do work, hell I found a guy with 5K hours on his original motor that is insane. You can find it on youtube if you look.

JTR

mikeg205
01-25-2012, 04:57 PM
Day I brought it home hence old carpet and overall disgustingness...
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/o3geetee/022-1.jpg

Aint the prettiest motor out there, but for now she is doing fine so I am not cracking her open and cleaning her up until I have to. Cannot complain these ol 351s really do work, hell I found a guy with 5K hours on his original motor that is insane. You can find it on youtube if you look.

JTR

lol...while I was out I picked a bottle of the magic lube stuff......Can't hurt to add something to sacrifice itself to make the cam lobe - tappet union slicker... :D ... tried to drive by ... told myself it's only January I can wait... but stopped in took a look and picked a bottle for kicks...

Stx221
01-25-2012, 04:59 PM
I snapped an engine picture last night for you guys. I apologize for the bad quality, it happened to be pretty dark out. It will definitely get an excessive amount of cleaning once it comes out of hibernation as that's just the way I am.

Edit: 800 hours on mine, and it seems like its just getting broken in compared to what the rest of you are showing on yours (I do understand a difference between the LT1 and 351W, though small block vs. small block, they are both great motors). I am hoping for many hours of happy motoring with this boat/engine combo!

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0164-1.jpg

mikeg205
01-25-2012, 06:25 PM
Looks good...if you want to make yourself crazy run down this thread...

I know I'll be next...to do this..lol...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=30120&highlight=engine+insulation&page=6

Stx221
01-26-2012, 10:17 AM
geetee, I will inquire with the PO about what he used for the trans fluid swaps in the past. He is going to be mailing me another key for the boat shortly here as well.

mgor, was there supposed to be a link included with your post?


I have 3 new questions:

1) How does one remove the rear sundeck pads? The ones just about the rear seat and swim platform? I dont want to break anything while trying to pull them off. I would love to pull them off so I can have the one seam that is coming undone repaired over the winter.

2) Not that this is a current plan or even one in the near future, but there is an incredible aftermarket for LT1. Does anybody modify them in the boats to make more power? Cams, heads, intake manifolds are all pretty common place thanks to the corvettes and f-bodies, so the parts are out there. Or is the quest for more torque or top end speed easier just by swapping props? I have read that getting over 50mph is pretty much out of the question due to the hull design, but who can ever have too much power? (Just trying to stir up a little more debate than the oil topic :D as I have been involved in way too many of those!)

3) There was a little bit of moisture on the carpets when I covered up the boat after trailering it home the other day. Then it rained a bit and there is a small amount more that got on them (before I could get the tarp on over the cover). Is there a good way to dry these out in the colder weather? Or will it be ok until Springtime when I can pull the covers and let the carpet dry out in the sun and warmth? It is outside and will be for the rest of the winter. I know a lot of people store their boats outside, so is getting water in them over the winter a fact of life or does everyone package them up to keep them 100% dry? Next year if it is going to be outside again, I will have it shrink wrapped. Doesn't seem to be cost effective to wrap it for 2 months though.



Thanks,
Stx221

Thrall
01-26-2012, 03:49 PM
Sundeck pads are bolted thru from underneath. Take the back seat center back section out, you'll see where it's bolted.

Unless you're looking to spend some serious money on your boat, drive it first. A LT-1 'slot will knock your socks off as is, especially with a good prop. Mine was a 1:1 drive and propped down a little with an Acme 3 blade it was unreal at low altitude.

Noticed moisture on the engine too?
If it's below freezing, at least that moisture won't cause any smell or mildew for the time being, but I'd get it dried out. Put a little electric heater and fan under the cover and let that run and dry it out.
I've always stored inside, but some dessicant will keep the moisture from coming back once it's dry and well covered.
Good point on the thermostats. I'd replace them (read up and get the correct ones).

mikeg205
01-26-2012, 04:49 PM
geetee, I will inquire with the PO about what he used for the trans fluid swaps in the past. He is going to be mailing me another key for the boat shortly here as well.

mgor, was there supposed to be a link included with your post?


I have 3 new questions:

1) How does one remove the rear sundeck pads? The ones just about the rear seat and swim platform? I dont want to break anything while trying to pull them off. I would love to pull them off so I can have the one seam that is coming undone repaired over the winter.

2) Not that this is a current plan or even one in the near future, but there is an incredible aftermarket for LT1. Does anybody modify them in the boats to make more power? Cams, heads, intake manifolds are all pretty common place thanks to the corvettes and f-bodies, so the parts are out there. Or is the quest for more torque or top end speed easier just by swapping props? I have read that getting over 50mph is pretty much out of the question due to the hull design, but who can ever have too much power? (Just trying to stir up a little more debate than the oil topic :D as I have been involved in way too many of those!)

3) There was a little bit of moisture on the carpets when I covered up the boat after trailering it home the other day. Then it rained a bit and there is a small amount more that got on them (before I could get the tarp on over the cover). Is there a good way to dry these out in the colder weather? Or will it be ok until Springtime when I can pull the covers and let the carpet dry out in the sun and warmth? It is outside and will be for the rest of the winter. I know a lot of people store their boats outside, so is getting water in them over the winter a fact of life or does everyone package them up to keep them 100% dry? Next year if it is going to be outside again, I will have it shrink wrapped. Doesn't seem to be cost effective to wrap it for 2 months though.



Thanks,
Stx221


poop -- added link...

mikeg205
01-26-2012, 04:56 PM
+1 on keeping the engine .... my 5.7 TBI still does 42 - 43 on GPS...562 hours.. and that's plenty fast consider I ski at 32.

is this what you had in mind for upgrades?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_cRQhW7nj8

wait till the driver accelerates after he passes house boat on river... eash... power

03geetee
01-26-2012, 05:11 PM
That LT1 will be plenty o power, keep it tight run good fuel and change the oil regularly and like others said work on the prop not the motor!

JTR

gotta_ski
01-27-2012, 04:22 AM
As a fellow LT-1/slot owner, I can back up Thrall saying drive it first. In the 190 hull the power it puts out is plenty, and it will rip you out of the boots if you put the hammer down.

I highly recommend moving the head bleeder lines to the front as in this thread http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=31626
, and also highly recommend re-plumbing your heater as is shown in the same thread. It really does put out hot heat at idle with just that simple change.

Stx221
01-27-2012, 10:48 AM
Its funny, as far as my 3 questions went, the one that I was half joking about (LT1 modifications) got the most attention! :D


Truth is this: at this point I don't plan to modify the boat at all, I just haven't seen many threads on here about people modifying the LT1's much. There seems to be all sorts of info on running different heads and intake manifolds on the 351W, so I was merely inquiring about whether or not people are modifying the LT1. I really can't wait to drive this thing as it sounds like the LT1/'slot is a pretty potent drivetrain.

gotta ski, I will look into moving those head bleeder lines and see if it has already been done. I was told that the boat runs at approx 160 degrees and never more (except for the one time the impeller was on its way out and got changed in the middle of the lake) so I am not concerned about it running too hot. If I get it on the water and notice that it is running hot and those haven't been done, I bet you can guess what I will be doing before my second or third outing on the boat! I don't have a heater as far as I know and hopefully somebody can correct me if I am wrong.

For the moisture drying process, I am going to pull the covers off tomorrow morning (its snowing today) and get the shop vac inside to try to pull any water from the carpet that I can, and then use one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Holmes-HFH111T-U-Heater-Comfort-Control-Thermostat/dp/B000BEUZS2
to complete the drying process. Would you guys just put this inside the boat on the floor, get it set up and running, and then put the covers back on so the inside could heat up and dry out for a couple days? I am going to set the heater on a piece of wood so that its off the carpet. Does this sound like a safe/ good way to do it, or is there a fancier boat drying process that I should be aware of? :P

1redTA
01-27-2012, 11:41 AM
The LT1:
use the stock intake, but gasket match it
as far as head work, gasket match, make the runners the same size with a cartridge roll. LEAVE the floor alone
get the 48mm throttle body bored out to 52 which is the same size as the intake bores
a tune from Arizona Speed and Marine would be a good start

Jerseydave
01-27-2012, 12:29 PM
Welcome to teamtalk and the LT-1 family of owners! You will love this engine!

Looking at your engine pic your head bleeder line looks ok (see hose going from front of head to exhaust riser)

I just got my LT-1 powered '93 last month (non-powerslot) and I also have that long wait until spring just like you! In the past my '94 was also an LT-1 with powerslot. Awesome boat!

Stx221
01-27-2012, 04:35 PM
ThanksTA, and Jerseydave.

Sounds like some pretty easy ways to make some more power out of the LT1 in a boat, just like in a car. Not that I plan to do anything like that, but its nice to know that its available.

Dave, thats great to know that the head bleeder lines appear to have been updated to the newer setup! One less thing to worry about.


Another question:
Is there anything that I should take care of as preventative maintenance at ~800 hours and of this vintage boat?
Oil change, transmission fluid change, spark plugs, thermostats, and checking the impeller (with replacement if necessary) are already scheduled for fall.


A big thank you to all that have been patient with answering my questions so far! I really appreciate it. I am completely new to the boating world and its very nice to have some people be able to answer my questions! :toast::toast:

Jerseydave
01-27-2012, 04:42 PM
ThanksTA, and Jerseydave.

Sounds like some pretty easy ways to make some more power out of the LT1 in a boat, just like in a car. Not that I plan to do anything like that, but its nice to know that its available.

Dave, thats great to know that the head bleeder lines appear to have been updated to the newer setup! One less thing to worry about.


Another question:
Is there anything that I should take care of as preventative maintenance at ~800 hours and of this vintage boat?
Oil change, transmission fluid change, spark plugs, thermostats, and checking the impeller (with replacement if necessary) are already scheduled for fall.


A big thank you to all that have been patient with answering my questions so far! I really appreciate it. I am completely new to the boating world and its very nice to have some people be able to answer my questions! :toast::toast:


Just a few things I could think of:
-clean and oil air filter
-change fuel filter
-grease steering cable & rudder
-check trans cooler for debris, backflush with garden hose nozzle
-check belt for wear, make sure hoses are good and clamps are tight
-it might be a good idea to check bolts to make sure they are tight such as engine mounts, alternator brackets, etc.
-check engine alignment (best left to dealer)
-grease starter drive gear and shaft

mikeg205
01-27-2012, 04:57 PM
Just a few things I could think of:
-clean and oil air filter
-change fuel filter
-grease steering cable & rudder
-check trans cooler for debris, backflush with garden hose nozzle
-check engine alignment (best left to dealer)

+1 on this and

... pitots cleaned out.. if your bored take the start off and lube starter shaft and bendix gear...wax hull under engine (just kidding).

Check float switch for bilge...clean bilge pump..

gotta_ski
01-29-2012, 06:37 AM
If your boat doesn't have a heater, that would be one of my first projects. It seems kinda spendy, but oh so worth it. I use mine anytime I'm out early in the morning or at night. Even if its not cold out, its so nice to have a little warm air on your feet. Not to mention that it makes it easier to talk my girlfriend into driving for me on those cold mornings.

Stx221
01-30-2012, 11:50 AM
Just a few things I could think of:
-clean and oil air filter
-change fuel filter
-grease steering cable & rudder
-check trans cooler for debris, backflush with garden hose nozzle
-check belt for wear, make sure hoses are good and clamps are tight
-it might be a good idea to check bolts to make sure they are tight such as engine mounts, alternator brackets, etc.
-check engine alignment (best left to dealer)
-grease starter drive gear and shaft

All great suggestions, I will definitely have a Springtime run-through of the list!

+1 on this and

... pitots cleaned out.. if your bored take the start off and lube starter shaft and bendix gear...wax hull under engine (just kidding).

Check float switch for bilge...clean bilge pump..
I really hope you aren't kidding about this. I can almost guarantee that it will happen...

If your boat doesn't have a heater, that would be one of my first projects. It seems kinda spendy, but oh so worth it. I use mine anytime I'm out early in the morning or at night. Even if its not cold out, its so nice to have a little warm air on your feet. Not to mention that it makes it easier to talk my girlfriend into driving for me on those cold mornings.

At this point, I think I will hold off on this suggestion. Going to leave the boat as-is for now and get to know it a bit before any modifications (the only one I want to make is a newer stereo. An upgrade from a tape deck to a unit with an ipod hookup would be welcomed with open arms). Great to know about the heater option though.

Jerseydave
01-30-2012, 01:10 PM
My X-star has a heater and a shower, but IMHO the shower is the real value. It's cheaper and easier to install than a heater and it's a real game-changer for the skier in cold weather. There is nothing better than filling your wetsuit with hot water before a run, then filling it again after a run plus warming your feet and hands. Tell the driver to wear socks and gloves......the skier needs the comfort of hot water!!! :D

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=101-S-C

mikeg205
01-30-2012, 05:13 PM
All great suggestions, I will definitely have a Springtime run-through of the list!


I really hope you aren't kidding about this. I can almost guarantee that it will happen...



At this point, I think I will hold off on this suggestion. Going to leave the boat as-is for now and get to know it a bit before any modifications (the only one I want to make is a newer stereo. An upgrade from a tape deck to a unit with an ipod hookup would be welcomed with open arms). Great to know about the heater option though.

Sorry i meant hull inside under engine...bilge area...:D:D:D

Stx221
01-30-2012, 05:30 PM
Sorry i meant hull inside under engine...bilge area...:D:D:D

I understood what you were referring to, and I actually wasn't kidding.:D The probability is rather high that I will clean and wax there. Once the weather gets warmer, I expect to spend a good amount of time cleaning the motor, cleaning the interior, and waxing the hull.

Whenever I buy something new, I go a little OCD to get it really cleaned up and detailed to the tenth degree. It really helps with the long term maintenance of Keeping things clean.

I spent a few hours Saturday with the covers off vacuuming the carpets and wiping things down (dash, seats, glass).

I put a couple of tubs of moisture absorbent on the floor before Covering it up to try and keep everything dry until spring.

mikeg205
01-30-2012, 07:10 PM
I understood what you were referring to, and I actually wasn't kidding.:D The probability is rather high that I will clean and wax there. Once the weather gets warmer, I expect to spend a good amount of time cleaning the motor, cleaning the interior, and waxing the hull.

Whenever I buy something new, I go a little OCD to get it really cleaned up and detailed to the tenth degree. It really helps with the long term maintenance of Keeping things clean.



Well you bought the right boat bro' and you're in a very enabling forum for your OCD which will get worse...I keep my '95 uncovered in my insulated garage, motor box open. It was nice out yesterday so I opened the garage door, dusted the boat and vacuumed it. My wife came out and asked me, "what the heck was I doing that for, it won't be in the water for a couple of months!" - The only answer I had was ... "i'll be in the house in a few minutes, I am almost done.....:D:D:D:D:D

thatsmrmastercraft
01-30-2012, 10:38 PM
Well you bought the right boat bro' and you're in a very enabling forum for your OCD which will get worse...I keep my '95 uncovered in my insulated garage, motor box open. It was nice out yesterday so I opened the garage door, dusted the boat and vacuumed it. My wife came out and asked me, "what the heck was I doing that for, it won't be in the water for a couple of months!" - The only answer I had was ... "i'll be in the house in a few minutes, I am almost done.....:D:D:D:D:D

.......................nice.:cool:

Stx221
01-30-2012, 10:56 PM
That's great! A nice response too!

I got a better picture of the LT1 on Saturday when I was cleaning:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/321dfddb.jpg

mikeg205
01-30-2012, 11:37 PM
Oh...those rusted screws would keep me up at night... :D.... I like the LT1 engine...

Stx221
01-31-2012, 05:51 PM
What keeps me up at night isnt the rusted screws/bolts, they will get cleaned up and painted when I get my springtime weather to detail the boat. It's the fact that the red enamel in the corvette lettering on the engine covers isn't bright red anymore... I can not wait to fix that one :D

I already sense some black paint coming out and the possibility of some items getting powdercoated...

mikeg205
01-31-2012, 06:18 PM
What keeps me up at night isnt the rusted screws/bolts, they will get cleaned up and painted when I get my springtime weather to detail the boat. It's the fact that the red enamel in the corvette lettering on the engine covers isn't bright red anymore... I can not wait to fix that one :D

I already sense some black paint coming out and the possibility of some items getting powdercoated...

I wasn't gonna bring that up...lol..I painted the "MasterCraft Power" letters on my manifolds silver after I repainted them black...

madcityskier
02-01-2012, 11:47 PM
After thinking about it more...I can really see why you would think this...

this thread talks about sticking a screwdriver in it......

Link to you tube stolen from another thread. This will show what he means about the prop spinning when the engine is running in neutral on the trailer.

http://youtu.be/MyEESgy95CE

Stx221
02-06-2012, 11:50 AM
So...

Bringing this thread back up.
The boat came with a very nice Kenwood cassette deck with multi-disk CD Changer. While I am sure its great, I would love to bump up to a head unit that is a little newer and has an ipod hookup/aux input as well as some more functionality and expandability. I don't think I will go to a full system with sub, but the ability to expand in that capability would be great. I would like to get a good head unit in there and then test out the Kenwood speakers, and hopefully that will be a good setup for me to start with.

My question is a simple one: I will be using the boat only in fresh water and it will always be trailered home instead of being tied up in a slip. Is there any downside to using a car audio head unit? I know the marine versions have coated boards and electronics, but there is a flip down cover over the radio and the current one is a car stereo and seems to have held up just fine over the last years.

03geetee
02-06-2012, 09:48 PM
Think about getting caught in a rain storm or taking on a huge wave, just get the marine stuff that just my .02.

JTR

Stx221
02-14-2012, 11:27 PM
I will look into the marine audio stuff. Might start the season with a tape deck and cd changer for the time being as that is pretty low on the priority list for me.



Another question though. Does anybody have a part # for the serpentine belt on an lt1? I assume there must be an automotive part # so I could pick one up at Napa? A search came up without an answer.

I'd like to go this weekend and pick up some spark plugs, fuel filters, and a new serpentine belt. Basically, get some stuff together for a tune up once the covers come off the boat.

madcityskier
02-14-2012, 11:55 PM
I would bet that it's different. I don't suspect your running an a/c unit in the boat. In my experience just take the old one with you and let the parts guys get you the right one. Hasn't failed me yet.

Stx221
02-17-2012, 03:46 PM
This probably won't make a lick of a difference on the amount the boat gets used, but how many gallons of fuel do you guys (with the lt1/slot) typically run through for a day on the lake? 10, 15, 30 (full tank) gallons? Typical use will be pulling a couple skiers, tubers, wakeboarders for a couple hours and then just hanging out anchored on the lake for a couple hours.

I know mileage varies based on a million different things, but just as a rough guess for what you guys see. I know it wont be Prius mileage, but are we talking 10mpg Escalade or 20mpg GMC Envoy? :D

mikeg205
02-17-2012, 08:13 PM
When I go skiing for the day with my 5.7 I use about 15 gallons. Not an LT-1 but 5-7 gallons per hour of towing....

Stx221
03-14-2012, 09:26 AM
So, a few more questions as I got the boat uncovered and running last weekend. Hooked up the hose and it fired right up. Idled very smooth. Did an oil change, new spark plugs, and fuel filter. I then pulled the manifold drains, knock sensor and drain on the opposite side. I also pulled the hoses from the raw water pump and opened the impeller housing to spray some white lithium grease in there. I am hoping that is all I needed to do in order to protect things in the event of the one or two nights where temps may be hitting 32 again.

I was able to pull the rear transom pad so that I can find somewhere to have the seam stitched up (thanks to those that answered the question on how to do that). There is now a fresh coat of teak oil on the swim platform as of two nights ago as well.



While doing my maintenance and just poking/cleaning various things, I came up with a few things that I want to do and have a few questions for you guys.

1) I want to replace the knock sensor in the block. It seems that over the years of removal and install for winterizing, the "nut" where one would put a wrench on the sensor has become slightly deformed. Rather than deal with not being 100% sure it is tight or bending the sensor back so that the right wrench fits it, can I replace it with the automotive equivalent from the same year Corvette/Camaro that also had an LT1?
http://napaautoparts.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=MPEDKS206SB_0166923229&An=599001+101995+50012+2012008+4012044+5999999&Ar=AND%28P_RecType%3aA%29

2) The threads on the manifold drain plugs are a touch rusty and I would love to put new ones in and tap the threads on the manifold as well for easy removal/install. Is a 3/4" NPT tap all that I need, along with new 3/4" NPT drain plugs? Upon install, I will coat the threads with a healthy dose of anti-seize as well.

Also, mgorczak the vette engine covers are in the garage, just waiting for a coat of red enamel in the lettering. I am hoping this weekend to be able to get some more cleaning done, as well as possibly hit a lake for a quick test run. I guess the big question is finding a lake without ice on it and an open boat launch.

east tx skier
03-14-2012, 11:08 AM
You may not need to retap. With my new to me boats, I always replaced the petcock drain plugs and manifold plugs with regular brass plugs. I put a little teflon tape on the threads and they go in with ease.

As for the white lithium grease, you don't need it. Water is enough to keep it lubricated. If you have trouble getting it to go in the pump housing, a little water based personal lubricant (read KY) works well.

I'm a proponent of changing the impeller each spring. If you do not, then you should remove it in the fall to keep it from becoming formed to the shape of the pump housing and losing its efficiency. There are plenty who will boast of how many seasons they have gotten out of a single impeller. I have never been interested in entering that contest.

When I had my MC, I never bothered adding antifreeze to the block. Never a problem with freezing. With the LT1, there have been some concerns noted with using the usual RV antifreeze in the aluminum block. Antifreeze in the block is helpful with inhibiting rust, which is why I now pickle the block at winterization. If you decide to go that route, do a search on this forum about RV antifreeze in the LT1 first.

mikeg205
03-14-2012, 12:22 PM
While doing my maintenance and just poking/cleaning various things, I came up with a few things that I want to do and have a few questions for you guys.

1) I want to replace the knock sensor in the block. It seems that over the years of removal and install for winterizing, the "nut" where one would put a wrench on the sensor has become slightly deformed. Rather than deal with not being 100% sure it is tight or bending the sensor back so that the right wrench fits it, can I replace it with the automotive equivalent from the same year Corvette/Camaro that also had an LT1?
http://napaautoparts.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=MPEDKS206SB_0166923229&An=599001+101995+50012+2012008+4012044+5999999&Ar=AND%28P_RecType%3aA%29

2) The threads on the manifold drain plugs are a touch rusty and I would love to put new ones in and tap the threads on the manifold as well for easy removal/install. Is a 3/4" NPT tap all that I need, along with new 3/4" NPT drain plugs? Upon install, I will coat the threads with a healthy dose of anti-seize as well.

Also, mgorczak the vette engine covers are in the garage, just waiting for a coat of red enamel in the lettering. I am hoping this weekend to be able to get some more cleaning done, as well as possibly hit a lake for a quick test run. I guess the big question is finding a lake without ice on it and an open boat launch.

regarding threads - I just chased the threads with right tap keep them lubed with anti-seize so they don't corrode over winter.

I ran anti-freeze thru my block this winter for the corrosion inhibitor, I think that's a great idea - remember need a good rinse before going in the water - if you use the non RV stuff.

lol...on the lettering...I paint the letters on my risers....

I'll probably get blasted for this...but I just hand tighten my knock sensor...with the little bit of anti-seize its never leaked plus its a tapered thread and low pressure...

pram
03-14-2012, 04:53 PM
Are you by chance near your boat that you can take a picture of the front of it?

I am curious about the hose placement going to the manifolds

I need to move mine and would like to see your configuration

Stx221
03-15-2012, 02:06 PM
Thanks for the responses.

I will be buying new drain plugs without question. Brass sounds like the way to go so I will pick up two of them before the weekend so I can get them installed with some teflon tape.
The previous owner had used white lithium grease on the impeller and housing. I assumed it to be there to aid in keeping the impeller pliable and not drying out. That is the reason I used it. I pulled the impeller and it all looked good, no cracks, not formed to the shape of the housing either. I think I will run this one for a few hours and pick up a new one to keep in the glove box to swap in at that point. It only had 5 hours or so on it last season as I was told that it was replaced in August of last year. I have no interest in attempting to join the x # of years with an impeller club either. Seems cheap enough to just swap it out in a matter of 2 minutes or so...

mgorczak, what was the tap size for those manifold plugs? I'd love to run a tap and chase the threads to clean them up a bit. They have a fair amount of rust on them, so I think it would be worth doing.

I will also keep in mind that the knock sensor doesn't need to be cranked down and is a tapered thread. That's great info! Does anyone know if I can use the knock sensor from the same year GM car from a NAPA or the likes? Or is that marine specific? At the $30 or so for one from a mid 90's Camaro with an LT1, it seems cheap to swap to know that the ECU will cut power if it sees any knock. Coming from a decent history of owning forced induction vehicles, sensors that detect knock is not really an area that I really like to mess around with. I'd pay the money for a new sensor. Just looking to see if I can use the one from a local parts store when I take the belt in to get it sized up for replacement.

pram
03-15-2012, 02:37 PM
Are you by chance near your boat that you can take a picture of the front of it?

I am curious about the hose placement going to the manifolds

I need to move mine and would like to see your configuration

:idunno:???

mikeg205
03-15-2012, 03:27 PM
stx, I borrowed it from a friend who was a plumber. Take the plugs to the local hardware store and they'll set you up for a few bucks...happen to be luck to have a plumber in the neighborhood...couple of beers and the job was done...

Regarding the knock sensor - take it to napa...I ordered a inline fuel filter from a marine shop and it came in a napa box...lol.

mikeg205
03-15-2012, 03:29 PM
:idunno:???

hey pram - check post #22 in this thread....

pram
03-15-2012, 04:22 PM
I looked at that as well as the one in post 43 and that is what made me curious about it.

It looks like the port side is going from the outlet near the thermostat and the other side is coming off of the head?

I plan to move the bleeder on mine this weekend, but that configuration looks different than others that I have seen.

Just looking for a little clarification that's all

Stx221
03-15-2012, 05:27 PM
Pram, when I leave work for the day, I will run home and take a couple pictures for you of the coolant lines. Maybe mine are set up differently and I should modify them some?


I will take the drain plugs to the hardware store and try to get a tap and a couple replacement plugs. Next stop, NAPA for the belt and the knock sensor, easy enough! It's great how many of the LT1 engine parts match right up with the cars. It really makes getting parts for them very easy.


A funny story for you guys:
When I went in for the spark plugs, oil filter and fuel filters last week, the guy at NAPA looked up the filters first and then the plugs last.
I gave him the part numbers for the filters I needed and this is the conversation that followed:
Him: "Must be a small block Chevy, like a 350 right?
Me: "Yeah, Corvette engine"
Him: "That's awesome, Corvettes are great."
Me: "Yeah, I know" and then I told him the plug numbers.
Him: "You know Corvettes don't take those plugs, right?"
Me: "Yup, the 'vette motor is in my ski boat".
The dumbfounded look on his face was worth every penny I spent in the NAPA that day.

mikeg205
03-15-2012, 05:37 PM
Pram, when I leave work for the day, I will run home and take a couple pictures for you of the coolant lines. Maybe mine are set up differently and I should modify them some?


I will take the drain plugs to the hardware store and try to get a tap and a couple replacement plugs. Next stop, NAPA for the belt and the knock sensor, easy enough! It's great how many of the LT1 engine parts match right up with the cars. It really makes getting parts for them very easy.


A funny story for you guys:
When I went in for the spark plugs, oil filter and fuel filters last week, the guy at NAPA looked up the filters first and then the plugs last.
I gave him the part numbers for the filters I needed and this is the conversation that followed:
Him: "Must be a small block Chevy, like a 350 right?
Me: "Yeah, Corvette engine"
Him: "That's awesome, Corvettes are great."
Me: "Yeah, I know" and then I told him the plug numbers.
Him: "You know Corvettes don't take those plugs, right?"
Me: "Yup, the 'vette motor is in my ski boat".
The dumbfounded look on his face was worth every penny I spent in the NAPA that day.

look on clerk's face - priceless... could be a someone to get to know when you can't find the 3rd person to go out to ski. :D

pram
03-15-2012, 07:21 PM
Excellent, thanks. I look forward to seeing your drain setup.

Pram, when I leave work for the day, I will run home and take a couple pictures for you of the coolant lines. Maybe mine are set up differently and I should modify them some?


I will take the drain plugs to the hardware store and try to get a tap and a couple replacement plugs. Next stop, NAPA for the belt and the knock sensor, easy enough! It's great how many of the LT1 engine parts match right up with the cars. It really makes getting parts for them very easy.

Stx221
03-15-2012, 11:04 PM
Ok Pram, here you go:
(I'm glad I can start providing some info instead of just asking for it)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0237.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0238.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0239.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0240.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0241.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0242.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0243.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0244.jpg

mikeg205
03-15-2012, 11:08 PM
stx...by the pic's I can tell you have the OCDMC gene...and it's active... :D

mattb
03-15-2012, 11:09 PM
STX221, I just purchased (3 weeks ago) a '95 pro star 190 with the LT-1/power slot combo. This thread has been a great help as I am literally in the same situation as you trying to get all the loose ends tied up before the start of the season.

Great looking boat!

mikeg205
03-15-2012, 11:13 PM
STX221, I just purchased (3 weeks ago) a '95 pro star 190 with the LT-1/power slot combo. This thread has been a great help as I am literally in the same situation as you trying to get all the loose ends tied up before the start of the season.

Great looking boat!

Hey Matt hope you and STX get out soon... goin out tomorrow...and saturday...good luck.. and get out there!!

Stx221
03-15-2012, 11:19 PM
stx...by the pic's I can tell you have the OCDMC gene...and it's active... :D

Thanks, I haven't even had a chance to take things apart and clean/paint/powdercoat yet. Give me some time :)
I need to get it out on the water and make sure that all is well there before I start making things look good. Expect a lot of that rusty bolt/oxidized aluminum to disappear in the next few months. The 'vette engine covers are already in the garage awaiting a refurb mission.

STX221, I just purchased (3 weeks ago) a '95 pro star 190 with the LT-1/power slot combo. This thread has been a great help as I am literally in the same situation as you trying to get all the loose ends tied up before the start of the season.

Great looking boat!

Thanks, I am quite happy with the looks of it as well! I just need to get it out on the water now! I guess that's the big downside to buying a boat in the absolute middle of winter. Oh well, it will all be worth the wait. Hopefully in the future, others can reference this thread and utilize some info from it as well! It seems to be very difficult to search for LT1 items as the search doesn't allow searches on 3 character items. Hopefully this might make it a little easier for people to find some info on the subject matter.

mattb
03-15-2012, 11:19 PM
Hey Matt hope you and STX get out soon... goin out tomorrow...and saturday...good luck.. and get out there!!

Thanks! This whole working during the week thing is really prolonging the length of projects...

I need to move my bleed tube from the rear of the engine to the front and switch the heater hoses around. Does anyone have the part#'s for the bleed tube itself? I read through the original thread covering this issue, but it's somewhat vague. It seems as some have just used a piece of rubber fuel line to replace, but I'd rather have the real deal. Is it possible to just remove it and reuse it?

Thanks! Not trying to thread-jack, I just figured maybe this will help another future LT1/powerslot owner.

Stx221
03-15-2012, 11:26 PM
Hey Matt hope you and STX get out soon... goin out tomorrow...and saturday...good luck.. and get out there!!
Assuming the ice has cleared on any of the lakes within 75 miles of me, I WILL be going out on Saturday. I have a couple people scouting out some of the local boat launches for me. You guys will know if I get out there. I promise to provide pictures of the adventure.

mattb
03-15-2012, 11:27 PM
Assuming the ice has cleared on any of the lakes within 75 miles of me, I WILL be going out on Saturday. I have a couple people scouting out some of the local boat launches for me. You guys will know if I get out there. I promise to provide pictures of the adventure.

ughhhh I need to do this. I am behind!!!

Table Rocker
03-15-2012, 11:32 PM
Does anyone have the part#'s for the bleed tube itself?
http://www.rmsautoparts.com/proddetail.php?prod=12556260
You can move the pipe from the back to the front. It is the same pipe.

mattb
03-15-2012, 11:34 PM
$112?? There's no need to replace this right? I can just simply unbolt from the rear, and reposition it to the front correct?

Table Rocker
03-15-2012, 11:40 PM
$112?? There's no need to replace this right? I can just simply unbolt from the rear, and reposition it to the front correct?
Correct. The plugs that were in the front can go in the back. The pipe can either be cut shorter and the hose attached at the front, or bent at the rear and the hose routed around the back. Most cut the pipe.

mattb
03-15-2012, 11:45 PM
hmm I guess I don't follow the bending/routing part. I would have thought this would be an identical swap just reverse. it will probably make more sense when I tear into it this weekend. Thanks!!

Table Rocker
03-15-2012, 11:59 PM
hmm I guess I don't follow the bending/routing part. I would have thought this would be an identical swap just reverse. it will probably make more sense when I tear into it this weekend. Thanks!!The crossover has a long tube that comes to the front of the engine where the hose attaches.
http://www.rmsautoparts.com/prodimages/12556260.jpg
When you reverse it, it ends at the rear of the engine and is a little too long hitting the ecm at the rear of the engine. You can cut the pipe at the front (as seen in this pic)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0237.jpg
Or you can bend a 90 at the rear to clear the ecm and route the hose back up the port side of the engine under the cover where it can pop out where the old one did.

gotta_ski
03-16-2012, 04:21 AM
The pipe needs to be bent a little bit because the ends of the heads are not on the same plane. One sticks out about half an inch (maybe a little more) than the other because the cylinders aren't exactly centered from left to right.

Just bend the old bleeder pipe to fit and cut the end down. Once you have it off the motor and look at it you'll figure it out. I think its curved up a little bit from left to right and you reverse that curve when you move it to the front. One thing to watch out for is to be really careful when you take the bolts off that hold the bleeder on. They are steel (unlike the aluminum head) and mine had rusted so much that they stripped the hole in the block coming out. I had to re-tap the hole and fit it with a slightly larger plug. Not a huge deal, but a bit of a hassle tracking down a pipe tap that large and a plug to fit.

Stx221, you can ignore all this talk about head bleeder lines as yours is already done. Lucky you.
What are you using to restore the plastic valve covers? Mine have lost their red and I'd really like to get them looking new again. Some kind of engine paint with a brush?

mikeg205
03-16-2012, 08:41 AM
Thanks! This whole working during the week thing is really prolonging the length of projects...



Yeah, I get that work thing, just lucky I am 25 minutes from the Illinois river to get out, and not a great sleeper so spent a few nights in the garage...

What are the 2 small diameter hoses running from the air intake that route back into the risers?

mikeg205
03-16-2012, 08:42 AM
Excellent, thanks. I look forward to seeing your drain setup.

pram, can't wait to see your pics..

mikeg205
03-16-2012, 08:44 AM
Assuming the ice has cleared on any of the lakes within 75 miles of me, I WILL be going out on Saturday. I have a couple people scouting out some of the local boat launches for me. You guys will know if I get out there. I promise to provide pictures of the adventure.

Ice, doh! sorry, keep on forgetting your way north of me...

Table Rocker
03-16-2012, 10:30 AM
What are the 2 small diameter hoses running from the air intake that route back into the risers?One is the "bubble catcher" from the top of the engine thermostat housing and the other is the steam tube crossover from the heads.

Stx221
03-16-2012, 10:38 AM
Stx221, you can ignore all this talk about head bleeder lines as yours is already done. Lucky you.
What are you using to restore the plastic valve covers? Mine have lost their red and I'd really like to get them looking new again. Some kind of engine paint with a brush?

That's great that they have been done already. One less thing on the ever growing list. (I told the previous owner that this boat was going to a good home, I wonder if he knew the extent of what this boat would see for care.:D)

I'm not sure on the engine covers yet. I am thinking red enamel paint, a paintbrush and a really steady hand.

Yeah, I get that work thing, just lucky I am 25 minutes from the Illinois river to get out, and not a great sleeper so spent a few nights in the garage...

What are the 2 small diameter hoses running from the air intake that route back into the risers?

Those are actually small water hoses. I wont re-post the pictures as they just take up space, but the one on the starboard side runs right to the top of the thermostat housing and the one on the port side runs down to the metal line that crosses under the flame arrester that is a hot topic of discussion in this thread.

pram, can't wait to see your pics..

Cant wait to see them either. I like seeing pictures of the LT1's. There is a thread out there with pictures of them and its great!

Ice, doh! sorry, keep on forgetting your way north of me...
All in all, really not that far North of you. Just a different climate. Plus, haven't temps in the mid-West been abnormally high (higher than everywhere else)? Supposed to be 55 and sunny here on Saturday. I think that will make for a perfect water test day. There wont be any skiing or wakeboarding though, that I can 100% guarantee.

pram
03-16-2012, 01:08 PM
Thanks for the pics of the hose setup. I will have to tackle the tube movement this weekend on the boat, it kinda looks like it is going to be a job.

I like the fact that yours doesn't have the bubble catcher (one less thing that I need to buy)

I will take some pictures and post them up as well. I am getting closer to being done the pre-water prep of my new to me boat.

The list was long and it getting to be shorter and shorter all the time

Have a look at a Kenwood KDC-X395 Head unit. I just bought one for a friend of mine for helping me with some stuff for his boat. The salesman could have shown me way more expensive units (I told him how much I wanted to spend) but he really liked that one. You also can get a wired remote for it

I have this crappy pic of my motor as I was taking it apart at the front to replace the water pump so I had a reference

Table Rocker
03-16-2012, 01:20 PM
I have this crappy pic of my motor as I was taking it apart at the front to replace the water pump so I had a referenceWhat did you end up doing on your water pump, replace or rebuild?

pram
03-16-2012, 01:32 PM
I ended up getting one of his rebuilt pumps. There was only 20 some dollars difference. I painted it black and bolted it on. The worst part of the entire thing was scraping the old gasket off of the block lol.

I changed both thermostats, resealed everything so I should be good to go. Other than the steam tubes that I need to move now.

Table Rocker
03-16-2012, 01:51 PM
I ended up getting one of his rebuilt pumps. There was only 20 some dollars difference. I painted it black and bolted it on. The worst part of the entire thing was scraping the old gasket off of the block lol.

I changed both thermostats, resealed everything so I should be good to go. Other than the steam tubes that I need to move now.That was a good move. The price of the kit was too high compared to the rebuilt pumps. I wish I had bought the pump with the heater port. As it is, I will be drilling and tapping a 3/8" npt hole to move my heater outlet to. Stx221 has the heater outlet on his pump.

The factory bubble catcher is the brass fitting on top of the engine thermostat housing. I doubt it catches that many bubbles, but it is plumbed to a manifold.

Stx221
03-16-2012, 02:40 PM
Thanks for the pics of the hose setup. I will have to tackle the tube movement this weekend on the boat, it kinda looks like it is going to be a job.

I like the fact that yours doesn't have the bubble catcher (one less thing that I need to buy)

I will take some pictures and post them up as well. I am getting closer to being done the pre-water prep of my new to me boat.

The list was long and it getting to be shorter and shorter all the time

Have a look at a Kenwood KDC-X395 Head unit. I just bought one for a friend of mine for helping me with some stuff for his boat. The salesman could have shown me way more expensive units (I told him how much I wanted to spend) but he really liked that one. You also can get a wired remote for it

I have this crappy pic of my motor as I was taking it apart at the front to replace the water pump so I had a reference

No problem, really glad to be able to help actually!
Good luck with moving those tubes. The benefit to me about working on the boat motor is that its pretty open access on all sides. Much easier than fighting with car fenders and radiator supports and whatnot.

I just took a look at that Kenwood. I really like it at first glance! Its got an ipod hookup, and 3 sets of preamp outputs and is just about $100? At that price and with all those features, I'll give up the fact that it isn't marine rated...
I'm pretty sure the Kenwood tape deck/cd changer combo in the boat now are automotive grade anyway and they seem to have held up really well over the last 17 years.

Here's another question. When I snapped those pictures last night, I looked around. There are multiple threads that say the rear of the side panel have cutouts in the wood already for a set of rear speakers. Mine don't have those cutouts anywhere. Is there are reason why?

Also, just picked up my required throwable Type IV PFD and 7 Type II PFD's. Got two Taylor Made 5.5x20" fenders in medium blue and a set of transom tie downs for the trailer. Thanks to the local boat builder show, the boat store next to the show had a massive sale! I didn't even think that anything would be on sale due to the show, so I'll call those savings as a win!:D
Just need some dock line (3/8" x 15') and fender lines and I think I have completed all required items on the list to get the boat out on the water. Then its just toys that need to be purchased. Its still a bit too cold for those anyway!

pram
03-16-2012, 03:26 PM
The stereo has a lot of nice features on it. I bought the wired remote for it also for him.

One nice thing with that deck is you can control your Ipod/phone with either the deck or the ipod it's self while hooked up

I had intentions of spending twice that and still the guy told me to get it. With 4 speakers he said it would work well, not cranking but well (unless he added an amp)

My last boat stereo wasn't marine rated and I had it for 7 years and had no issues with it at all

Stx221
03-18-2012, 09:15 AM
Well, I went yesterday in the car to the boat launch that I expect to use most this summer and it was still covered in ice. Before I was 100% committed to coming home, I made one other stop, right into the state park (knowing there was a boat ramp there). I didn't expect much, but turned the corner into the parking lot to about a dozen trucks and empty trailers. At that point I knew something was up!

After walking down to the ramp dock and talking to a local, they have been going out on the water all winter long. There is a small river that runs from the launch up to the lake and he said that it hasn't frozen all winter and it spits you out right into the middle of the lake which is wide open. He then says "you could go 50mph all around the lake out there".

One quick phone call and I have a buddy (with mechanical abilities very similar to mine) to go with me. If anything happened out on the water, I am pretty sure we could come up with a way to fix it and get home. Being 58 degrees and sunny, I had to go out. Back to the house I went to get the truck and boat.

Got out on the water and all was great. Everything worked as it should, engine got up to temp and stayed there, transmission worked great in forward and reverse. Everything was silky smooth, even at 48mph. :D
This thing is great. Up to about 15 mph it feels like its spinning the globe, then it gets very smooth and the speedo just rockets up to 45 or so.... I love it.

We got back to the dock and had a couple issues getting the boat up onto the trailer all the way. Seemed that either the trailer was too far out of water, or too far in. I know that I will figure it out in due time, but does anyone have any suggestions on this?
Also, when I first fired it up, the manifold drain plugs were leaking a fair amount. I pulled them quickly and re-did the Teflon tape that I had on them. The leaking seemed to slow to a drip every 30 seconds or stop completely. I will get a tap for those threads and chase them, hopefully that takes care of it. Other than those two things, it was an absolutely amazing hour and a half, and I cant put into words how happy I was about everything. Definitely ready for the summer!

Anyway, here are some pictures of the adventure:
Mastercraft in tow:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0247.jpg


Sunny Day:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0248.jpg


48mph (this picture was taken before we got all the way there, but I certainly wasn't taking it while driving):
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0258.jpg


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0251.jpg


Tough Life, huh?
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0252.jpg


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0253.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0254.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0250.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/IMG_0249.jpg

Stx221
03-18-2012, 09:17 AM
The best part:
Its supposed to be 70 and sunny today. Can you guess where I am going?

mikeg205
03-18-2012, 10:55 AM
The best part:
Its supposed to be 70 and sunny today. Can you guess where I am going?

Have a great day... !!!

mattb
03-18-2012, 09:34 PM
looks like an awesome time! I love the black interior pieces (maybe dark blue?). Glad it worked out well for you.

Stx221
03-18-2012, 11:38 PM
Went out again today, from about 11-5. It was incredible out there. 78 and sunny in Maine, on a lake, in March. What is going on?? The water temp was COLD (maybe high 30's, low 40's), and I was dodging small chunks of ice when I was heading back down the river to the launch from the lake.

Gassed up the boat this morning, and filled up after the trip today, burned about 6 gallons. I think my fuel estimates are going to be pretty close for a day on the water. I also set the speedo that works via GPS on my phone at 25mph and it is now spot on. After that, I took a video of the acceleration. Man does this thing pick up speed quickly! (more on that below)

In the short time that I have been out, I have given myself quite the education in slow speed maneuvering (most all of it in the middle of the lake with nobody around). All in all it is relatively simple stuff. I find that if I keep the inputs to a minimum, I take a little bit of time to work my way over to the dock, but I eventually get there. Certainly with this thing, no throttle application is the way to go! Just get it in gear and then back to neutral. I think it will be a matter of time before it just is quick and natural to get the boat to land right at the dock where I want it. Thanks to you guys and all the posts on here, knowing that in reverse it will go to the right and just wont go left while in reverse was huge.

Loading the boat on the trailer was not an issue at all today as it was yesterday. I basically just drove the boat right up the trailer and then pulled it the last couple inches and then dropped the bow buddy pin through by hand. I couldn't seem to understand how it worked (with my feet in 30 something degree water), so I just decided to get the boat in place and then drop the pin through. Worked like a champ. I will investigate the bow buddy on land with my feet in nice warm sneakers and then utilize it.

Otherwise, an incredible 2 days on the water and the only casualty was a nice sunburn on my face. I know I could not be any happier with my purchase of this boat! It will certainly be a lot of fun.

Anyway, on to the good stuff!
Here is a video of the acceleration from a stop. There is absolutely no increase in playback speed here either.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/th_IMG_0264.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/?action=view&current=IMG_0264.mp4)

mikeg205
03-18-2012, 11:56 PM
Nice...LT1, 1 or 2 people in the boat...nice!!!! Soon as the water warms up you'll be getting a great tow...I truly enjoy the quick acceleration when I ski... :D

pram
03-19-2012, 12:47 AM
way cool

Man I need to get out on the water

Jerseydave
03-19-2012, 08:51 AM
Nice video.....0-40 in under 7 seconds.

If you set the boat buddy before driving the boat up on the trailer (swing lever to the "set" positon) you should be able to drive the boat gently into the buddy and hear a click. That means the pin has popped and you're good to go. Depending on how steep your ramp is, most people put the trailer in so the tops of the fenders are just sticking out of the water.

mattb
03-19-2012, 11:29 PM
Geez, post that video again if you ever try to sell!!! That is some crazy acceleration. I absolutely cannot wait to use my boat. Same engine/trans combo and nearly identical hours.

I'd be curious to see a video when you get down to a 1/4 tank or less.

Stx221
03-20-2012, 06:39 AM
Pulled the fuel level sending unit last night for repair. The float is currently in the garage with the jb weld drying. Both magnets had come separated from the float. No wonder why the gauge read full the whole time! (the previous owner told me it was on the fritz, so it was no big surprise). Reassembly and install tonight!

This seems to be a good repair as it has gained me access to thoroughly clean behind a bunch of stuff. In fact, knowing that it will only take about a half hour to put the float together and get the boat all buttoned up from the repair, I might just remove some more stuff to clean.... :D

mikeg205
03-20-2012, 07:28 PM
Pulled the fuel level sending unit last night for repair. The float is currently in the garage with the jb weld drying. Both magnets had come separated from the float. No wonder why the gauge read full the whole time! (the previous owner told me it was on the fritz, so it was no big surprise). Reassembly and install tonight!

This seems to be a good repair as it has gained me access to thoroughly clean behind a bunch of stuff. In fact, knowing that it will only take about a half hour to put the float together and get the boat all buttoned up from the repair, I might just remove some more stuff to clean.... :D

if it doesn't work...cheap replacement...

mikeg205
03-20-2012, 07:29 PM
Geez, post that video again if you ever try to sell!!! That is some crazy acceleration. I absolutely cannot wait to use my boat. Same engine/trans combo and nearly identical hours.

I'd be curious to see a video when you get down to a 1/4 tank or less.

hope to ping you when I get to your area for a tow...next time I visit my dealers in MI...will bring my ski..hope I can mooch a tow.. :D

Stx221
03-20-2012, 09:03 PM
Well, the repair worked nicely. Only problem was that while I was in there, the OCD kicked in and I pulled the whole assembly on top of the tank where the sending unit mounts to. Not really a problem, but I cleaned a bunch of sand/dirt from the pickup screen and on the bottom of the fuel bowl (if you can call it that). Really glad I pulled that out as there was a bit of stuff there.

Also borrowed a 3/4" NPT tap from a shop up the street. Pretty cool that they just let me borrow it. Ive never been in there before, and based on the type of work they do, might not ever be in there again. I figure a 12 pack of Bud's will be payment enough :D
I tapped the exhaust manifold drains and used new brass plugs with plenty of anti-seize on the threads.

I got a lot of cleaning done to some of the seats and some of the gelcoat inside the boat. Next time I have the cover off, it needs a good vacuuming and carpet cleaning. Otherwise, I think most everything has been coming together nicely with it. For now it just needs to be detailed and have the rear transom pad restiched and installed. I'd say its ready for the summertime now!

mikeg205
03-20-2012, 09:14 PM
time to get towed... :) bring friends and have fun!!!

akps190
03-20-2012, 10:09 PM
I just ran across this and thought I would add my 2 cents. I havent read thru the whole thing so I may be duplicating. I have a 98 PS190 with LT-1.

If you search the forum there are some good checklists for winterization and de-winterization. I printed them out and use them every season as a checklist.

Since I am in alaska and am paranoid about freezing the block, I run antifreeze thru my engine prior to draining. I have always been a little concerned about any water that might be trapped in the engine, especially in the thermostat housing, although this may be of no concern. I have a 15 gallon plastic tank setup with a ball valve and hose that I can connect to the suction side of the water pump. On my last run to the marina in the fall, I get the engine up to temperature, pull it out on the trailer, disconnect the water pump suction hose, hookup the 15 gallon tank with antifreeze, fire up the engine and suck the antifreeze thru the engine. Then I let the engine cool down, drain the antifreeze, collect it in a tub and put it back in the plastic tank. I have read that the RV antifreeze can be a problem with the LT-1, so I use Sierra propylene glycol with inhibitors.

I also found that if you take a shop vac and hook up the hose to the blower side you can hook it up to the water hoses (after you disconnect them) and blow remaining water out thru the drain plug holes. Very little comes up, so probably not necessary. I disconnect all my hoses from the water pump, thermostat housing, manifolds, etc over the winter.

Good luck and enjoy.

Stx221
03-20-2012, 10:12 PM
Need to get towed? I need the water to warm up first!

I've got the people lined up, the fun will arrive with the people and warmer water.

akps190
03-20-2012, 10:26 PM
Checklists. Obviously some of these items may not be specific to your engine....

76588

76589

76590

mikeg205
03-20-2012, 10:35 PM
Need to get towed? I need the water to warm up first!

I've got the people lined up, the fun will arrive with the people and warmer water.

wetsuits... no problem... :) water temp - 48-51 degrees in the pic...air temp mid 70's .. :D

Stx221
03-22-2012, 10:22 PM
So I was out today for a quick two hour trip on the water.
All was well to start, got out and once the temp came up to 160 I got on the throttle. Only was able to get 4800rpm out of it at wide open throttle. About half an hour later, a loss of power and anything over half throttle and 3100rpms it was getting really bogged down. Had to cruise home across the lake at 30mph and worry if I was going to be able to make it home. Also, no overheating. Engine temp stayed right at 160 degrees, oil pressure right at 50psi or so, and it ran great at anything under 3100rpm.

Any thoughts? It ran superbly on Sunday for 6 hours...

Attached is a picture from today.

Table Rocker
03-22-2012, 10:32 PM
A dirty fuel filter or a collapsed fuel line can cause high rpm problems while allowing lower rpm's to be okay. Just a first thought. Did you replace both fuel filters? I know you found some junk in your fuel tank.

Stx221
03-22-2012, 10:40 PM
I replaced the fuel filter behind the engine. When I pulled the tank forward, I was unable to find the smaller fuel filter. I did clean the small mesh screen at the bottom of the pick up tube. I wonder if I squished one of the fuel lines when I reinstalled the tank.... I will look tomorrow.

Stx221
03-23-2012, 09:03 PM
Well, the good news it that I didn't find either of the fuel lines squished behind the tank.

The bad news is that I didn't find either of the lines pinched behind the tank and I now have absolutely zero idea where to look from here.

Is there anywhere I can hook an OBD1 scan tool up to pull any codes, like I could in a car?

mattb
03-23-2012, 10:23 PM
hope to ping you when I get to your area for a tow...next time I visit my dealers in MI...will bring my ski..hope I can mooch a tow.. :D

do it!!!

A dirty fuel filter or a collapsed fuel line can cause high rpm problems while allowing lower rpm's to be okay. Just a first thought. Did you replace both fuel filters? I know you found some junk in your fuel tank.

I replaced the fuel filter behind the engine. When I pulled the tank forward, I was unable to find the smaller fuel filter. I did clean the small mesh screen at the bottom of the pick up tube. I wonder if I squished one of the fuel lines when I reinstalled the tank.... I will look tomorrow.

Sounds like a fueling issue. Does any one know where this smaller filter is???

setidball
03-23-2012, 11:51 PM
My 1995 PS190 has the small filter in the line just laying on the top of the tank. It was nasty looking when I replaced it. S

Table Rocker
03-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Make sure you have your fuel filter by the fuel pump in correctly. There should be an arrow on it showing the direction of fuel flow.

Stx221
03-24-2012, 04:37 PM
That filter is installed in the correct direction.

Tomorrow I will check the plugs/wires and the ignition coils. I guess I will pull the line off the bottom of the fuel pump and see if there is any blockage there.

Is there anything else you guys can think of that I should check? I am guessing it can't be anything major as it ran great the prior weekend, and below 30mph it ran normally. I had made a slight rookie move and left the blower on from when I started the boat and had been cruising around a while before all this started happening. I don't think that is related to this at all though.

Table Rocker
03-24-2012, 06:06 PM
I would think it is related to something you worked on. You might change the fuel filter again. Bad filters do exist. If it doesn't help, at least you can use it next year.

It might be something like a cracked pick-up tube in your tank where it is sucking some air. Whatever it is, the chances are it has your fingerprints on it. That is always the case for me anyway.

Stx221
03-25-2012, 06:47 PM
Well, pulled the tank forward and checked EVERYTHING I had previously pulled apart. I routed the fuel lines a little differently in the hope that one might have been slightly pinched between the tank and transom before. The pickup tube in the tank looked good, no cracks. The screen at the bottom of that was clear.

I pulled the spark plugs and wires. There was no corrosion inside of the plug wires, and the plugs all appeared the same. None of the plugs smelled like unburned gas. All the plugs were still gapped correctly and showed no cracked porcelain or carbon tracking.

The fuel filter by the pump is installed in the correct direction and I do not have a small filter on top of the tank. I do have the required filter sitting in the gunwale. I think I may cut the fuel line to the pump and install it just after the hose connection off the top of the tank.

I drained all water as it is supposed to snow tonight/tomorrow.

I noticed that the hose for the blower (that looks like dryer exhaust vent tubing) is cracked in multiple places and the blower makes a funny noise when turning it on occasionally.

I guess I will just take it out on the water next time it's nice and see what happens...
I have nowhere else that I can think of to look and investigate. I am hoping that me having the blower on that whole time (roughly an hour), along with the radio cranking out tunes that it dropped the voltage enough that the fuel pump couldn't flow enough fuel, thus causing the rpm reduction mode. Sound plausible?

Stx221
03-25-2012, 06:49 PM
I would think it is related to something you worked on. You might change the fuel filter again. Bad filters do exist. If it doesn't help, at least you can use it next year.

It might be something like a cracked pick-up tube in your tank where it is sucking some air. Whatever it is, the chances are it has your fingerprints on it. That is always the case for me anyway.

This is usually the case for me as well, my fingerprints being on whatever is going on. I don't think that is the case here though :mad:

Table Rocker
03-25-2012, 08:10 PM
You should be able to rent a fuel pressure test gauge at your parts store. If your pressure is good, you can head down another path.

Stx221
03-26-2012, 02:19 PM
I will obtain a pressure gauge to measure fuel pressure, and hopefully check it this weekend.

I have been searching for info on the check engine light. I don't have anything marked like this on the dash, only Engine and Transmission Temp Lights.
Is the Engine Temp light the same thing as the Check Engine Light? I'd love to run the paperclip test on the MEFI connector (which I found on the back of the engine) to see if it displays any codes. However I just cant seem to find an answer as to where exactly the check engine light may be.

^My logic says its the same as the Engine Temp light, but I've been wrong before.

mikeg205
03-27-2012, 07:59 AM
STX221...another thing to check is the hoses coming off the riser. Cloaked has a pick of a hose that looks fine from the outside and almost closed on the inside.

Stx221
03-27-2012, 10:27 AM
I think I am heading out early this evening for a quick test-and-tune run on a lake that's about 10 miles from away. Smaller lake than I have been on, but it would be perfect for what I need to do.

I am hoping that pulling the tank forward and re-routing the fuel lines made all the difference. I am going to pull the raw water pickup off the trans cooler to make sure no junk was picked up. I cant imagine this being the case as the temp gauge didn't show any signs of crossing 160 degrees.


Can anyone tell me if I am correct about the Check Engine Light being the same as the Engine Temp light on the dash? I'd love to hit the MEFI connector pins with a paperclip to see if any error codes are stored when I am on the boat.

Stx221
03-27-2012, 10:27 PM
Pulled the raw water hose on the transmission cooler. Pulled a couple strands of grass out. Nothing major at all. Did not have a chance to pull the fuel line at the bottom of the pump.

Went out for a lake test, check.

Got out there, boat fired right up and ran great. Pulled like a freight train up to 49mph. Accelerated fine, drove great. Temp hit 160, perfect.

Drove around some more, then decided to head back to the launch.
Things are fixed and working 100%, right?
WRONG!
300 feet from the launch and the temp gauge dropped to 120 and then power loss, surging throttle, and it ran horribly unless it was idling or under 1500rpms. Popped the engine cover and poked around. Nothing looked out of place. Fuel pump didn't sound strained. Thought I heard a buzzer (buzz, buzz, buzz) of some sort from the dash, but none of the dash lights were lit up. I kept checking around, nothing I could tell wrong. Engine was idling fine, sounded fine. Put in gear and it moved around just fine, no issues. It started runnng better and i got it back to the boat ramp at 25mph and loaded on the trailer.
Shut it off and poked around, still nothing. Tried to jump pins A and B on the MEFI connector, and couldn't get any lights anywhere to light up. (still assuming that the engine temp light doubles as the check engine light).

After 5 minutes or so I decided to start it back up. It idled fine so I took it back out. Temp around 120 or slightly cooler still, and it ran great, got up to 40 mph and it was doing just fine. Noticed the temp come up to 160 and bam, ran like crap again. Got frustrated and limped it back to the trailer at 25mph. Loaded it up and pulled it from the water. Pulled all the drains as its supposed be be below freezing again tonight. I noticed this time and a few times before when pulling the manifold drain plugs, but there are bits of an old impeller that have come out.

The previous owner said he replaced it in August of last year and the new one had about 5 hours on it. I am wondering if a piece of the old impeller has gotten lodged in one of the two thermostats (probably the 160 degree one) and won't allow it to open fully? I could imagine the ecu seeing the temp a bit too high and cutting engine power and functionality drastically. Is this possible? I am really thinking at this point that the rough running is somehow related to engine temp.

I did not have a fuel pressure gauge on such short notice so I wasn't able to test fuel pressure, but when I got home I hit the schrader valve and there was definitely a good amount of pressure there. Not conclusive I know..

Thoughts?

mikeg205
03-27-2012, 10:33 PM
good find... hope that's it.

d2jp
03-27-2012, 11:17 PM
I don't have an LT1, don't know if this is even related, but it's an interesting read no doubt;)
http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=31626&highlight=temperature

Stx221
03-28-2012, 01:09 PM
d2jp, thanks for the link! That is a great read, and certainly pertains to the issue at hand. However, my LT1 has already received that "upgrade".

I am really leaning towards one of the thermostats either being bad or blocked by a piece of the old impeller. I plan to pull all the hoses, both thermostats, and pull anything else I can find to try to clear every last bit of impeller out. For good measure, I will be checking the fuel pump screen as well.

Thank you all for being patient and answering my questions so far. Hopefully this thread can help someone in the future with all of the information in it! Once I figure out the issue, please expect pictures of what it is as well as my resolution of the problem. I have read multiple threads on poor running that don't have any solutions posted. This will not be one of those threads!

mattb
03-28-2012, 06:59 PM
As much as i hate to see you have troubles, this thread has been an enormous resource to me. I hope you get everything worked out and I appreciate you taking the time to document your findings in this thread.

Where is the schrader valve? And do you have have a link to what jumping the A & B pins does?

Stx221
03-29-2012, 12:31 PM
Matt, I can say that while its not much fun to be having troubles, it is certainly a great way to learn the in's and out's of the boat. I am considering myself lucky that this is happening in March, rather than June or July right in the prime season. Not to mention that if something happens in June, I will be familiar enough with things to be able to get home or hopefully just repair on the lake. Even though its frustrating at times, once all the bugs are worked out it will all be worth it! I created this thread to show my progression of owning/maintaining/repairing the boat. It seems somewhat difficult to find info on the LT1 here with the search not pulling in 3 character searches. Hopefully this thread can help others in the future as well.

Jumping A&B pins should show a 12 code on the Check Engine Light. One flash, pause, two flashes. This signifies that there are no stored codes and the ECU is ready to roll. If there are stored codes, they will be displayed in the same manner just with their respective code number. I cant find anywhere stating where the actual check engine light is though. Hopefully I am not mis-informing anyone here. Unfortunately, I don't have a link to this.

The schrader valve is located on the top of the motor in the back towards the fuel pump. It has a cap that screws onto it as a cover. If you look where the two fuel lines hit the fuel rail, it is right there on the starboard side fuel rail.
EDIT: See the arrow in this picture for the location of the schrader valve.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/Mastercraft/321dfddb2.jpg

Stx221
03-29-2012, 08:21 PM
Here goes. (this feels like take 45).
I pulled the thermostat on top of the water pump. Guess what I found??

If you guessed pieces of the old impeller, congratulations! You would be correct. Two of the three were stuck inside the thermostat, literally keeping it stuck and the other was just sitting on top of the thermostat. I pulled them out and then thanks to napa, they had corvette thermostat o-rings readily available so that i could reinstall it! I pulled all cooling hoses and no other pieces of impeller could be found. There may be some pieces in the riser still, but I think the ones in the thermostat were probably the culprit. Water test coming this weekend.

I pulled the line going straight into the fuel pump, no blockage there.

Is the thermostat on the intake manifold on an LT1 on the backside, near the ECU? Looks like a block off plate that says "top"?
I though that might be it, but I wasn't sure. Right around when i was looking, I sliced my hand on one of the hose clamps holding the exhaust hose to the riser and had to call it quits for the day.

Attached are two pictures, the first is of the pieces that were stuck in the thermostat and the other is one that has come out of the exhaust manifold drains.

mikeg205
03-29-2012, 08:50 PM
This is what happens when you try eek out that extra season out of an impeller. I am in the camp... new impeller every season... cheap cheap cheap....

STX you've come a long way in a short time...did you buy any 303 yet for the vinyl? That would complete your entre into the OCDMC gang... lol

Jerseydave
03-29-2012, 09:28 PM
If you're referring to a flat plate at the rear of the intake manifold I believe that is just a cover plate where the distributor would normally go. Don't remove it. You're engine just has the 2 thermostats that you already replaced, no others.

You should back-flush the trans cooler to remove any weeds/dirt that might be in there from the previous owner. Take both large hoses off the trans cooler and with a garden spray nozzle flush it in the reverse direction of water flow.

Hope she runs ok now.

BTW, were the broken impeller pieces holding the t-stat open or closed? (I assume closed?)

mikeg205
03-29-2012, 10:00 PM
Hope the impeller pieces are the solution so you can get to painting the corvette badges on the engine covers... :D

Stx221
03-29-2012, 11:11 PM
Ok.
Mgor, no 303 yet for the vinyl. That's coming soon. For your second post and request: do you live near me? Are you spying on me? Haha, see the attached picture!

Dave, I haven't changed either of the thermostats yet. They will both be getting ordered ASAP. Of the two locations, I know of the one on top of the water pump, but where is the other?
I pulled the hose off the inlet side of the trans cooler and pulled a few weeds out of it. I will backflush it at some point in the next few days, just in case.
Also, I believe the thermostat was being stuck open.

mattb
03-29-2012, 11:18 PM
One t-stat is in the triangular housing above the water pump and the other is right under the air filter. I just recently changed both of mine and found one large chunk of impeller in the top t-stat as well.

Good work on the covers. What did you use to paint the lettering?

Stx221
03-29-2012, 11:24 PM
Ok, I will check into them, I only found the one right under the air filter.

Matt, which thermostat did you find the chunk of the impeller on top of? I am guessing the same one I did, right under the air filter. I am using Krylon Fusion spray paint. I sprayed it into a cut open 20oz soda bottle and used a pretty fine paint brush to brush it in the lettering. Worked pretty well!

mattb
03-29-2012, 11:30 PM
Yeah I found it in the top one under the air filter (the 160 degree one). I haven't found any other traces of impeller elsewhere.

The 143 degree t-stat in the triangle housing requires a gasket that i highly doubt any auto parts store will have. I ordered mine from SKIDIM.

Stx221
03-29-2012, 11:41 PM
That's where I will be ordering the thermostats from, so I will make sure to order both gaskets from them as well. I am pretty excited for a test run in the next couple days to see if the impeller pieces have fixed the issue!

19_Skier
03-30-2012, 08:37 AM
nice investigative work stx! I hope it solves your issues and she's back to running smooth. I can only imagine how frustrating it has been after all the work you've done.

mikeg205
03-30-2012, 09:41 AM
Nice paint job...lol... no don't live near ya...haha... 38 in caribou maine today...28 now.... hope you're not that far north... ME to far north for me... I know its beautiful in summer.

Stx221
03-30-2012, 10:00 AM
nice investigative work stx! I hope it solves your issues and she's back to running smooth. I can only imagine how frustrating it has been after all the work you've done.
I will test it out this weekend and report back. I think some of the reasons why people think boats are so expensive to repair/maintain is based on the people that drop them off to a shop to have the work done. I probably have 12 hours or so in "diagnosing" this thing. At $85 an hour, that's roughly $1,000. I guess I am paying my left pocket from my right pocket that much this week :D
It's frustrating yes, but at the same point I am getting a whole education into the way these auto motors are adapted to boats. If this problem was in a Corvette, I am sure it could have been fixed much faster as I have a road right in front of my house to test drive on.

Nice paint job...lol... no don't live near ya...haha... 38 in caribou maine today...28 now.... hope you're not that far north... ME to far north for me... I know its beautiful in summer.

Thanks!
I don't live in Caribou, that's practically Canada! I am down near Portland. It is currently 35 outside and supposed to be in the mid 40's today. Slightly chilly, but I may be on the water this evening for another quick test run.

Stx221
03-31-2012, 10:36 AM
Take 45, no go.

Got out on the water and all was well for about 10 minutes. Then it started acting up again. If I let it sit and idle for a few minutes, it ran fine for a few minutes, but then the same thing. I pulled the lower thermostat while on the lake and it looked clear of debris.

I think checking fuel pressure is the next step, I guess I will re-investigate the fueling path.

I took a video of the issue. Maybe that can provide some more insight to anyone still following this thread. I ease into the throttle and keep it pretty consistent, but the power is still there when it's not acting up. 19 seconds is where you notice the issue occuring. I apologize for the shakey camera work and having to put down the camera to turn around in the middle.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/th_16137bdb.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/stx221/?action=view&current=16137bdb.mp4)

mikeg205
03-31-2012, 11:18 AM
Sorry STX, I am sure you will have it fixed soon. This may take two people to fix... I suggest taking dog house off, put pressure guage on fuel rail...based on symptoms fuel pressure would probably be fine when you check. I would also get a computer reader and run it live. Is there a good mechanic with a laptop connection reader for your motor? Too_Tall on this forum took his boat out and was able to get real time info when his boat was operating...I wonder how real time info we can get on the 1995's.

On the off chance did you pull the fuel pump off and check the intake screen? My 2001 Benz had some erratic behavior similar to yours...nothing captured on computer. Checked all known issues, cleaned up all sensor connections and erratic behavior has not returned...knock on wood...never knew what caused it.

Next thing I would check is temp sensor(s)...they might be flakey....but that's just me.

Stx221
03-31-2012, 07:26 PM
Take 46, part one.

It's too chilly to hit the lake today so I did some stuff here at home.
I bought a new coolant temp sensor for a 1995 Chevy corvette at NAPA for a grand total of $11.99. Too cheap not to just swap it out. This is the two wire sensor that feeds the ECU it's temp reading. It can't hurt to have a new one in there. All of my research shows that the MAP sensor and the coolant temp sensor provide the two major inputs for the ecu to control fueling. Then if the knock sensor detects detonation, that comes into play with modifying short term fuel trims.

I did buy a test light and connected pins E and F with the test light and turned the key on. This gave me a solid light, indicating that the system is showing a short to ground and that the light works. Then I connected pins A and B and it flashed the code 12 which means that the MIL (malfunction indicator light, or my connected test light) is able to read stored codes. It looped showing code 12, indicating that no codes are stored. I guess this is a good thing? Technically it means that no sensors are out of their operable range.

Take 46, part two will involve a water test and a fuel pressure gauge being hooked up to the fuel rail to view actual fuel pressure while on the water. I'm questioning my investigation of the screen on the bottom of the fuel pump at this point.

I also just noticed that there are 3400 views to this thread. Must be a good topic? :)

mikeg205
03-31-2012, 07:42 PM
Sorry my bad... posts 111 note check fuel screens. Looking forward to the water test with pressure test on. Check around the car forums for your symptoms...found the same issues and no codes...My bet is on the fuel pump....some said a coil fail, but that should have registered or left a misfire in the computer.

1redTA
03-31-2012, 08:55 PM
I just read your thread, nice boat! I would check the ignition control module at an auto parts store and remove the coil, they should be bolted together, make sure the coil isn't cracked. the ICM went out on my car and had some issues when warm so after I replaced both I placed a nut behind. It opts to space the assembly from the head to allow better air movement

Jerseydave
03-31-2012, 10:54 PM
It's hard to tell on your video, but are you losing oil pressure at over 3K rpms?
Just a guess, but if you lose oil pressure I think the ecm will reduce engine rpm or go into "limp home mode"?

JimN on here is pretty good with these problems if you reach out to him.

mtajpa
04-01-2012, 02:43 AM
Read through the following thread as it describes the issues with the screens getting plugged up. It sounds to me like a fuel problem.

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=43042

Stx221
04-01-2012, 12:09 PM
RedTA, I will be pulling the coils and module to check the connections out. I didn't have the right size socket when I was out on the lake Friday. I don't think it sounds like a spark issue, but anything is possible and the thought of a bad coil had crossed my mind.

Dave, the oil pressure gauge is all over the place. I'm not sure I believe it's an accurate reading until engine speed comes up off idle as its down near 0 psi. Then it shows 40psi and stays there all the way up to 5000rpm. There are no odd engine ticks or clacking that an oil pressure issue would present.

I will read through that thread on cleaning the screens shortly and possibly investigate that today in the driveway. This is pending time and outside temperature.

Jerseydave
04-01-2012, 02:52 PM
I only mention the oil pressure reading because perhaps faulty oil pressure readings could be sending false info to your ecm therefore causing a power interuption. Idk this for a fact but you may want to correct the oil pressure guage from bouncing first and see if that makes any difference in the way she runs.

Maybe JimN or Enginenut can comment

Stx221
04-05-2012, 08:27 PM
Take 46, part 3.
Still no water test. That might be the end of next week some night. I did pull the fuel pump completely and check it out. The screen inside the pump: had a ball of fiber inside it, covering probably half the screen. Otherwise pretty clear looking, though I still cleaned the heck out of it.

I also re-routed the fuel lines from the pump to the motor and the trans cooler lines as one of the cooler lines was pressed into a bracket pretty nicely. All lines are now routed nicely.

I still need to add the in-line fuel filter after the pickup tube on top of the tank.

I am hoping this takes care of things. Only a water test will tell us! Thanks for the help through all of this.

mikeg205
04-07-2012, 12:45 AM
Keep goin' STX...it's probably something simple...hopin' for that for ya...

Stx221
04-09-2012, 10:13 AM
Thanks, I'll keep plugging away with it! No worries on that one, I will figure out the issue and fix it.

My crash course in inboard engine setups will be very beneficial at some point, I am sure. The extensive research and reading that I've done has been very helpful so far. I am out of town until late Weds, but plan to take the boat for a water test either Thursday or Friday (weather permitting).


As I posted in the "What have you done to your MC" thread, I dropped my rear transom pad off at the canvas shop to get all the stitching redone. Even though just one seam needs to be repaired, the guy suggested doing all of them while there as it would cost all of $10 more once the skin was off. I was forced to agree!

mattb
04-09-2012, 09:50 PM
Take 46, part 3.
Still no water test. That might be the end of next week some night. I did pull the fuel pump completely and check it out. The screen inside the pump: had a ball of fiber inside it, covering probably half the screen. Otherwise pretty clear looking, though I still cleaned the heck out of it.

I also re-routed the fuel lines from the pump to the motor and the trans cooler lines as one of the cooler lines was pressed into a bracket pretty nicely. All lines are now routed nicely.

I still need to add the in-line fuel filter after the pickup tube on top of the tank.

I am hoping this takes care of things. Only a water test will tell us! Thanks for the help through all of this.

Can you post pictures of where you put in the fuel filter above the tank? Mine did not come with one above the tank either.

Stx221
04-09-2012, 10:12 PM
Can you post pictures of where you put in the fuel filter above the tank? Mine did not come with one above the tank either.

Matt,

I am about 500 miles from the boat until Thursday, so no pictures until then. Sorry about that.

To be honest, I have not put that filter in line yet. I decided not to put it on top of the tank though. Knowing the crap that accumulates at the bottom of the pump, I think I will locate the filter as close to the pump as possible (6-10" or so). That way if the inside of the hose breaks down or something of that nature, it won't make it to the pump and my clear plastic filter will show the tubing pieces. Not that it was a pain to pull the pump, but if that could be simplified to loosening two hose clamps and pulling a $4 filter to replace it, that's my choice. The filter will be going in on Thursday or Friday before taking my water test in the boat. I will snap a picture or two of my install for you though.

mattb
04-09-2012, 10:55 PM
No rush! That's sounds like a better location anyways. I look forward to hearing the results of your next water test.

pram
04-10-2012, 10:28 PM
pram, can't wait to see your pics..

:smile:

:down:

Stx221
04-10-2012, 11:01 PM
Will you have a look at this????
Pram coming in and showing me up with his beauty! I dig the gel scheme :D

I guess I need to buff mine and spit shine the motor and interior and snap some new pics. I think it's time to pick up some 303 and then clean the carpets as well!

mattb
04-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Will you have a look at this????
Pram coming in and showing me up with his beauty! I dig the gel scheme :D

I guess I need to buff mine and spit shine the motor and interior and snap some new pics. I think it's time to pick up some 303 and then clean the carpets as well!

I don't know...looks like Pram needs to paint those corvette covers!!!

Seriously though, great looking boat. 169 hours??? For real?

pram
04-10-2012, 11:13 PM
Will you have a look at this????
Pram coming in and showing me up with his beauty! I dig the gel scheme :D

I guess I need to buff mine and spit shine the motor and interior and snap some new pics. I think it's time to pick up some 303 and then clean the carpets as well!

LOL

The color is nice isn't it

I have done nothing to the exterior except take it and hose it off in the car wash bay last fall on my way home with it from Saratoga

My lovely wife, cleaned the interior today and 303'd it all up

I need to wax it and steam clean the carpets still

pram
04-10-2012, 11:14 PM
I don't know...looks like Pram needs to paint those corvette covers!!!

Seriously though, great looking boat. 169 hours??? For real?

yeah that's it

I bought it from the original owner, he gave me all the papers for it

me driving it home from california probably doubled the miles on the trailer

mikeg205
04-10-2012, 11:30 PM
yeah that's it

I bought it from the original owner, he gave me all the papers for it

me driving it home from california probably doubled the miles on the trailer

How did you get wife to clean boat...my wife won't touch my mistress... :D

pram
04-10-2012, 11:32 PM
I asked??? I dunno

she always helps me out with the boat

mikeg205
04-10-2012, 11:36 PM
I asked??? I dunno

she always helps me out with the boat

lol...mine will drive and party with mine....nice!...thread jack alert!!!

Stx221
04-11-2012, 10:56 PM
I hate to end your threadjacking guys, but it is time to get back on topic.

Today's update is pretty simple. I cut the fuel hose about 6" from the bottom of the pump and installed my inline fuel filter using hose clamps. Simple install, see attached picture. Mattb was looking for this picture, so I snapped one quickly for him and figured I would share it to everyone.

I opened the valve on top of the fuel tank and primed the pump. The filter filled with fuel and no leaks. I haven't primed the pump since before I took it apart, since I didn't want to have to drain the fuel line again when I installed the inline filter. I must say that the pump sounded a little bit healthier without the blockage in the way. I am hoping that I solved the problem. I think Friday is going to be test day, so I will grab a fuel pressure gauge tomorrow just in case I didn't fix it by clearing the blockage on the pump screen. If it still runs poorly, first check is fuel pressure. If that's good, I am leaning towards an ignition problem. I'll cross that hurdle if I get there, but I have a hunch that I wont need to dig that far.

mikeg205
04-11-2012, 11:19 PM
Like the idea of the fuel filter before the fuel pump. After your issue I pulled my pump and cleaned the screen...may do the same thing next off-season. Looking forward to the result of your water test.

Stx221
04-11-2012, 11:50 PM
Like the idea of the fuel filter before the fuel pump. After your issue I pulled my pump and cleaned the screen...may do the same thing next off-season. Looking forward to the result of your water test.


I decided that it would be much easier to loosen two hose clamps and pull a fuel filter than to pull the pump itself! I plan to replace this filter ever year, thus making it simple to keep the screen on the pump clean. The other benefit here is that I can see inside the filter to tell if the fuel hoses are breaking down on the inside as some people have noted they do with the 10% ethanol fuels. Overall, I really like this setup! The only thing I don't like are the hose clamps on the fuel lines, both the ones I put on and the ones that are already there. I need to find ones that are smooth all around the inside and have ridges/gears on the outside so they don't cut into the lines when tightened. (ex. These:http://mandmmarine.com/images/view.aspx?productId=372)

As you can guess at this point, updates to come after the water test on Friday!

mattb
04-13-2012, 10:30 AM
Mattb was looking for this picture, so I snapped one quickly for him and figured I would share it to everyone.

I opened the valve on top of the fuel tank and primed the pump.

Thanks for the picture! I'm going to put one in this weekend. What valve are you referring to for pump priming??

Stx221
04-13-2012, 10:42 AM
Glad I could help Matt!

There is a fuel cutoff valve on the top of the tank for the fuel supply line. I shut it off when I pulled the fuel pump to try to minimize any fuel spillage. All I was saying is that I opened that valve up so that fuel could flow. :D Once it was open, I just cycled the key from off to on a few times without starting the engine to pull some fuel up to the pump and fill the lines.

Stx221
04-13-2012, 08:11 PM
The good news: I got the vette engine covers back on and they look great.

The bad: cleaning the pump screen didn't help. Couldn't get a pressure gauge, but I believe pressure is there. I unplugged the knock sensor thinking that might be causing the issue. Same thing. The ecu isn't sensing knock and causing this which is good and bad. I am leaning towards one of the ignition coils being bad or the ignition control module that they are bolted to. It explains why it gets better once the engine cover is lifted and things cool a bit. I hope to find someone that can test them for me tomorrow.

mikeg205
04-14-2012, 05:58 PM
Bummer on that not fixing the issue.

Sloz06
04-15-2012, 12:15 AM
Great Purchase, I picked up the same boat, Mine was uncovered, leaves all over it and a foot of water above the floor, battery didn't have any juice leftthe previous owner was an uncaring boat owner, fortunately the price was perfect, and it was a bit of a gamble. BUT.....

I ended up passing on the 4000 dollar price, had the guy take the boat to a marina it came back running the price increase of 1000 bucks. (new battery, New bildge, and a half dozen other fixes).

I took the boat for a test drive, and everything seemed AMAZING, LT1 roaring, tight steering and a very light boat. compared to my last boat (01 Malibu lsx)
then, the boat started to over heat, and immediately went into a limp mode, and wouldn't go over 1000 rpm.

I took the boat back to my garage, and changed out a bunch of parts, searching LT1 heating issues, found many posts, on this over heating issue.


I Changed the two thermostats, and also the equalizing breather tube. flushed the coolant system with a rigged up hose system.

The boat runs great now, and once and a while ill get a over heat issue when the boat is pulling multiple skiers one after another, I was thinking of changing the thermostats out again. My interior is in need of a major overhaul, I was thinking of ripping the carpet up myself ( probably the worst age showing part of the boat) and having some short of grippe paint sprayed on, (I have two German Shepard's that are out in the boat with us all the time) Easier and less time vacuuming...)

Do you mind telling me how much you paid for your boat?

Sloz06
04-15-2012, 10:43 AM
Also, I just read you planned on putting Antifreeze in, I strongly recommend you do not do use antifreeze, you'll begin to notice that the aluminum heads will begin to flake inside, and cause blockage to your coolant system...

1redTA
04-15-2012, 10:49 AM
Also, I just read you planned on putting Antifreeze in, I strongly recommend you do not do use antifreeze, you'll begin to notice that the aluminum heads will begin to flake inside, and cause blockage to your coolant system...

The automotive heads have no problem with anti freeze in a closed system.

Stx221
04-16-2012, 06:13 AM
Slowz06, I wish it were as simple as overheating. It runs and gets up to 150-160 or so and basically stays there.

I did not use any rv antifreeze in the motor. I have gotten the process of draining the block down to a science. I guess that's the price to pay for early spring boating. I'd hate to have cracked the block or heads on a night when temps dropped just below freezing.

I am heading out of town for 2 weeks, so there probably won't be many updates in this thread for a bit. I am having someone take the ignition control module to a Chevy dealer this morning to have tested. For anyone that does not know, the ICM is the electrical unit that the coils are bolted to. I have read some car forums that show intermittent running issues when these units fail. However, when they start to fail they typically only act up when hot. Let them cool down and the cars start and run, until they get hot again. The local parts store was unable to test this as they only have a unit to test the v6 ICM.

For now, the hunt continues. At least I know the boat pretty well now...

mattb
04-22-2012, 05:51 PM
Napa carries fuel injector clamps in a variety of sizes. These type of clamps are completely smooth on the inside.

I decided that it would be much easier to loosen two hose clamps and pull a fuel filter than to pull the pump itself! I plan to replace this filter ever year, thus making it simple to keep the screen on the pump clean. The other benefit here is that I can see inside the filter to tell if the fuel hoses are breaking down on the inside as some people have noted they do with the 10% ethanol fuels. Overall, I really like this setup! The only thing I don't like are the hose clamps on the fuel lines, both the ones I put on and the ones that are already there. I need to find ones that are smooth all around the inside and have ridges/gears on the outside so they don't cut into the lines when tightened. (ex. These:http://mandmmarine.com/images/view.aspx?productId=372)

As you can guess at this point, updates to come after the water test on Friday!

Stx221
04-25-2012, 05:41 PM
Matt, those are exactly what I am going to use. I just need to pick them up.

I am grabbing the bull by the horns now with this issue. I found a local junkyard that just got in a 99 Cadillac Deville with the correct Ignition Control Module for my boat. It includes the four coils and is a great price with a 60 day warranty. I am buying it and installing it since nobody can test the one in the boat now (if this isn't the problem, then I have a spare...). I will be picking up a fuel pressure gauge from Autozone Friday morning to measure the fuel pressure when the boat starts hesitating. I will also bring a spray bottle with me. If the ICM and coils don't fix it and if fuel pressure is good, when it starts acting up I will spray the plug wires with a water mist to see if there is any arching going on.

I am hoping the ICM and coils fix the issue though.

mikeg205
04-25-2012, 11:08 PM
Good luck stx....

LittleFuss
04-26-2012, 12:41 AM
have you checked the spark gap? the spark gap not the spark plug gap...big difference.

Check that fuel pressure, that is where my problem was earlier this year...gunk in fuel tank..

19_Skier
04-26-2012, 08:10 AM
Good luck stx....

^ x2....rooting for ya!

1redTA
04-26-2012, 04:29 PM
I had a car that looked light an lightning storm at night, I forgot about that! that's how how I knew the coil was bad and to change the wires and plugs

Stx221
04-26-2012, 10:42 PM
Littlefuss, please explain yourself further.

1red, by tomorrow afternoon I'll have new (though used) coils and ignition control module. A new ICM is $300, a used ICM and coils is 75. Tough call on that one... Hah. I also have new plugs in it, so worst case is a new set of wires on the ignition front.

I have picked up a fuel pressure test kit from autozone for a $150 deposit that I get back when I return it. I'll be checking the pressure as well.


Thanks for the luck guys! I'm hoping to be towards the end of this road..
Tomorrow afternoon is the big day for testing.

ski/hunt
04-27-2012, 11:51 PM
I hope your celebrating a fix!! Hope to hear good news!!

Stx221
04-28-2012, 10:16 AM
No celebrations for a fix.

Different ICM and coils and it ran just the same. Put the fuel pressure gauge on, and it measured zero. I had to rebuild the tool on the lake. Some idiot had pulled the pin from the tester so it wouldn't open the schrader valve on the fuel rail. ...nice
Got it "fixed" and hooked it up. Measured pressure at idle and 2000 rpm. It was 40 psi the whole time. Then the damn gauge started leaking and I had to shut it down. I'd say it makes good pressure, but its tough to say as I couldn't watch when it was not running well.

I will be checking the resistance of the plug wires with a multimeter at some point soon.

Minor victory though: Backed the truck into the water a bit futher and got the boat buddy to fire the pin right through the bow eye, first try with no messing around. That little bugger makes things easy when things are set right!

Table Rocker
04-28-2012, 12:02 PM
I know you have plenty of things possible leads to track down, but take a look at the oil pressure issue. In the video we can see your oil pressure going all over the place. It is my understanding that the ECM will either shut down or limp the engine when the oil pressure is too low in order to save the engine. If your sending unit is putting out bad information, the ECM could be going in and out of limp mode. I don't know if ECM's work exactly this way, but hopefully someone on here will.

Since it is an issue you need to fix anyway, I would take care of it and see if it helps the other issue.

Kyle
04-28-2012, 12:04 PM
Stx I just started following your thread today and have pretty much have been through every page. Basically it ran great until the OCD kicked in and you started doing maintenance. Here is my check list.

1) is the pick up hose in the tank clear, non collapsed at the top (inside tank) or pick up hose cracked or causing air to syphin into the tank. Maybe try your diagnostic test with a full to the brim tank of fuel. You will eventually use it anyway but hopefully it is having fun skiing instead of working on her.

2) do you have the old spark plugs. If so put the old ones back in. I used to be a Caddy tech and I have seen perfectly brand new out of the box plugs go into an engine for a tune up and the car come back for a recheck because it ran poorly. Basically once the plug got hot the inside of the plug created resistance causing a misfire. You don't mention misfire but you do mention runs like crap. The Caddys ran great until they got hot and then started running poorly. Let them cool off and they ran perfect until hot again. Plugs were brand new out of the box.

3) no to insult you, but are we 100% sure that the impeller pieces are not from the impeller that is currently in your boat now.

1redTA
04-28-2012, 05:58 PM
I thought the fuel pessure needed to be 45 pounds at idle with the vacuum disconnected from the fuel diaphragm?

Table Rocker
04-28-2012, 11:49 PM
I found this thread in which matt was having fuel delivery problems.

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=40324

I think a fuel pressure reading at WOT, or at least where the trouble kicks in is critical.

Stx221
04-29-2012, 10:34 AM
I know you have plenty of things possible leads to track down, but take a look at the oil pressure issue. In the video we can see your oil pressure going all over the place. It is my understanding that the ECM will either shut down or limp the engine when the oil pressure is too low in order to save the engine. If your sending unit is putting out bad information, the ECM could be going in and out of limp mode. I don't know if ECM's work exactly this way, but hopefully someone on here will.

Since it is an issue you need to fix anyway, I would take care of it and see if it helps the other issue.

I will pick up both the oil pressure sending unit for the gauge and the pressure switch on the other side of the block. As you said, its a needed fix anyway. The two sensors are cheap, so I will do both and be done with that and rule it out of the equation.


Stx I just started following your thread today and have pretty much have been through every page. Basically it ran great until the OCD kicked in and you started doing maintenance. Here is my check list.

1) is the pick up hose in the tank clear, non collapsed at the top (inside tank) or pick up hose cracked or causing air to syphin into the tank. Maybe try your diagnostic test with a full to the brim tank of fuel. You will eventually use it anyway but hopefully it is having fun skiing instead of working on her.
Yes, the screen on the pickup (in-tank) is clean and I cant see any cracks in the pickup tube. I have run the boat with a full tank and it does the same thing.

Do most people replace the two square gaskets under the block that the fuel lines/sending unit are attached to after pulling that out of the tank? Could that allow air into the tank and cause this? With the pretty free flowing vent, I cant imagine this would do it, especially knowing its making 40psi at idle.

2) do you have the old spark plugs. If so put the old ones back in. I used to be a Caddy tech and I have seen perfectly brand new out of the box plugs go into an engine for a tune up and the car come back for a recheck because it ran poorly. Basically once the plug got hot the inside of the plug created resistance causing a misfire. You don't mention misfire but you do mention runs like crap. The Caddys ran great until they got hot and then started running poorly. Let them cool off and they ran perfect until hot again. Plugs were brand new out of the box.
I dont have the old plugs anymore, but I did run the boat for about 5 hours after swapping the plugs and all was well until this issue started. What you mention sounds similar to what is happening though. I wonder if it is worth it to pick up another set of plugs. Worst case I have a spare set sitting on the shelf for next time they need to be changed.

I guess I would define this issue as a either a misfire or a lack of fueling, its tough to say. Hopefully I will know more after rechecking fuel pressure and getting a reading when this issue occurs.


3) no to insult you, but are we 100% sure that the impeller pieces are not from the impeller that is currently in your boat now.
No insult taken (actually just glad to hear any suggestions at this point), but I had the impeller out about two weeks ago and it looks good, 100% intact and no cracking or deformities.



I thought the fuel pessure needed to be 45 pounds at idle with the vacuum disconnected from the fuel diaphragm?
Seems to me that what I have read states 30psi at idle, 2000rpm and WOT.



I found this thread in which matt was having fuel delivery problems.

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=40324

I think a fuel pressure reading at WOT, or at least where the trouble kicks in is critical.
Me too, but the fuel pressure gauge I got from Autozone started leaking like crazy so I had to stop using it. I am going to go back to the store and see if they have another one.



Thanks for all the suggestions this time around guys. I am going to measure the resistance of the plug wires as well.

Table Rocker
04-29-2012, 10:55 AM
From a different LT-1 thread which I linked earlier. The fuel pressure on that engine should be 36-39 at idle, 38-42 at mid range and 40-45 at WOT. Engine Nut is the definitive source of Indmar info. You need to see fuel pressures in the above ranges. Good luck, we are all pulling for you. I know it is frustrating.

Kyle
04-29-2012, 12:18 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions this time around guys. I am going to measure the resistance of the plug wires as well.

Yes, the screen on the pickup (in-tank) is clean and I cant see any cracks in the pickup tube. I have run the boat with a full tank and it does the same thing.

Do most people replace the two square gaskets under the block that the fuel lines/sending unit are attached to after pulling that out of the tank? Could that allow air into the tank and cause this? With the pretty free flowing vent, I cant imagine this would do it, especially knowing its making 40psi at idle.


Since air and fuel are two different properties and you can not mix them in the tank, the gasket will not matter since the pick up is at the bottom of the tank. The only way to pick up air would be to run the dank empty or dry.

The tank has to have a vent and if the gasket you are referring to is leaking fuel would seep out on the top of the tank with a full tank of fuel.

Kyle
04-29-2012, 12:27 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions this time around guys. I am going to measure the resistance of the plug wires as well.


I dont have the old plugs anymore, but I did run the boat for about 5 hours after swapping the plugs and all was well until this issue started. What you mention sounds similar to what is happening though. I wonder if it is worth it to pick up another set of plugs. Worst case I have a spare set sitting on the shelf for next time they need to be changed.

I guess I would define this issue as a either a misfire or a lack of fueling, its tough to say. Hopefully I will know more after rechecking fuel pressure and getting a reading when this issue occurs.





All techs were required to test drive for 20-30 min and bring the vehicle up to operating temperature before signing off on it. Sometimes the plugs were bad immediately and sometimes they were bad a week later. After several of us got called into the managers office for letting a car go without road test and questioned a service bulletin came from AC Delco stating that they had a bad plug batch made.


Now it was never all 8 plugs it was 1 and at most 3 plugs that failed. We never knew what car was going to fly right or not until plugs were recalled off our shelf.


If fuel pressure is good and plugs measure out good either replace all plugs or one at a time and note the bad cylinder.

Table Rocker
05-07-2012, 06:19 PM
Any progress? I'm pulling for you.

Stx221
05-08-2012, 12:08 AM
Table Rocker, no better progress than the last update.
I went back to Autozone and got another fuel pressure gauge. Drove out of the way to get it since the stores weren't doing any shipping on the weekend due to slow days. They said they would ship it store to store, but thats a different ballgame.

I got 2 buddies, some beers and snacks and headed out on a beautiful saturday afternoon for some beers and fuel pressure testing. You'll never guess what came next!
Another leaky fuel pressure gauge! (from a different spot now too, and then it broke for good when the Bleed valve came apart). This created a not so happy me, and I was helpless on a Saturday afternoon. I went in Sunday morning and got a brand new gauge to use after this whole debacle. I plan to test it out on Friday or Saturday and get a good fuel pressure reading at idle, 2000rpm, and WOT. Hopefully both before the issue occurs and while it is occurring as well. I think that should provide a conclusive test as to whether or not it is fuel related.

Thanks for the support! I hope to get this thing finally squared away as the HO Blasts showed up about a week ago and I really want to test them. In fact I am contemplating a ski or wakeboard run in 45-50 degree water once the boat is good to go! Ouch. :D

mikeg205
05-08-2012, 09:42 AM
Hope the test goes well... I have a pair of blast I used for years until I got my 205. You'll be looking for a good open water slalom ski by next season...For snicks I tried my blasts behind my 205 and It was like pivoting over a ball when I said hit it....lol. :)

What a pain on the fuel pressure tester... they should give you a credit for all the gas you wasted... :(

Stx221
05-11-2012, 08:41 PM
Ah hah! Today is the first time with this problem that I have actually been able to measure something in relation to it happening. I finally got the brand new fuel pressure gauge that I was loaned from AutoZone hooked up and it didn't leak. Thanks for the first two piles of junk autozone...

Yet again I had a driver for the boat, so I put the motor cover up and tied it into place off the rear handle typically used for getting on the swim platform. Out we went, round and round the lake showing fuel pressure of 40+ psi across the RPM range. After a while (5-7 minutes), the rhythmic hesitation from the boat showed up. Sure enough, fuel pressure drops to zero every time the revs drop. Pressure comes back and the boat surges forward. At one point while it was doing this, I held the bleed valve on the gauge, the flow of fuel stops and then comes right back, on repeat multiple times. There were no air bubbles in the gas coming out. This leads me to believe that I don't have a restriction in the line anywhere as that would cause aeration coming out of the fuel rail and bleed line of the gauge. It took quite a bit longer for the hesitation to happen this time than previously.

Got the vent on the rear of the engine box opened up and passed the gauge through there to see if temp had anything to do with it since the cover was open for the previous test. I ran the boat for about 10 minutes straight at 40-45mph and had zero issues, pressure was above 40psi the whole time. Reaching down into the engine bay, the fuel pump felt cool to the touch along with the hard lines where the fuel filter is. I don't think the pump is overheating. I decided to just cancel the test since it wasn't producing the typical symptoms.

Sounds to me like I may have a dying fuel pump on my hands. Anybody agree or have a different suggestion that I may have overlooked based on my findings?

Table Rocker
05-11-2012, 10:12 PM
What a relief to finally have some good info. Hopefully you have found the problem.

mattb
05-11-2012, 10:50 PM
The previous owner of my boat (w/LT1) said the boat sputtered and died a few times on him after the boat got up to temperature or after a good tow. After running through a bunch of tests he finally took it to the dealer and they narrowed it down to the fuel pump. He replaced the fuel pumped and the problem hasn't occurred since (knock on wood). It sounds like this could be the problem, but I also don't think you want to buy a $300 fuel pump if it's not the root cause. Any other LT1's in your area?

Table Rocker
05-11-2012, 11:29 PM
The fuel pump is $138 @ NAPA. I believe this is the correct part.

http://napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NFPP60962_0006468417&An=0 (http://napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NFPP60962_0006468417&An=0)

Stx221
05-12-2012, 10:04 AM
Napa doesn't stock that part and its a custom ordered part. 5-10 business days to get it in to the store. Woof.

Dealer is $330 and is 100 miles away, skidim wants 299. I am going to make a few calls on Monday in regards to this thing. Can I catch a break here?

Table Rocker
05-12-2012, 10:38 AM
This place claims to have it in stock for $134.89 & free shipping. I would call and make sure it was in stock.
http://www.mmrcspeed.com/Carter-GP60962-Fuel-Pumps-Regulators_p_242260.html (http://www.mmrcspeed.com/Carter-GP60962-Fuel-Pumps-Regulators_p_242260.html)

Summit Racing is the same price, but back ordered.

Stx221
05-12-2012, 10:45 AM
Thanks for all the help Table Rocker. Unfortunately those guys are closed for the weekend. I had already called Summit and the guy said I could call on Monday and they would inquire with having the manufacturer drop ship me the pump. Napa said the same thing.

Things here will be going on hold for the weekend since nobody is open or available to contact the manufacturer.

I am going to call Napa and Summit first thing monday and have them call the manufacturer to see what the est delivery time is. Hopefully quickly.

1redTA
05-12-2012, 11:26 AM
try warlboro, they should have a replacement

mikeg205
05-12-2012, 01:30 PM
Good Luck STX...hope that fixes the problem.....

Stx221
05-17-2012, 09:46 AM
Yesterday I swapped the oil pressure sending unit and the relay for the fuel pump. Pretty sure the oil pressure unit fixed things. Ran it full bore for about 25 minutes and no issues. Indicated good pressure on the gauge the whole time rather than the needle bouncing all over the gauge. It showed 15psi at idle, 40psi at idle to 3500rpm. 65psi up to redline.

Ran like a raped ape like it used to the first few times I went out.I'm a happy boater! I will still order a fuel pump and swap it out shortly here knowing how they fail.Thanks for all the help and support with this one!

19_Skier
05-17-2012, 10:02 AM
wow, can't imagine how relieved you must of felt having it run normal again. With your documentation, this thread is likely to be a big help to others in the future. I'm sure the weekend can't come soon enough so you can actually enjoy the boat.

Table Rocker
05-17-2012, 10:15 AM
I'm glad you are back on the water and I'm glad it turned out to be a cheap fix.

How about JerseyDave spotting the issue in the video and making the diagnosis in post #147? Well done JD!

tideengineer
05-17-2012, 10:23 AM
I have bookmarked this thread seeing as I have a 1996 version of the same boat. My biggest problem is a vapor lock every now and then...but then again in the depths of south Alabama it seems to get a little warm in the summer. Good luck.

Stx221
05-17-2012, 11:47 AM
I am hoping this thread can provide info to many people to come. I plan to continue to add to it as well.

I agree that jersey Dave spotted it back in the thread. I have read conflicting evidence that the oil pressure switch can actually shut the pump down and it sounded like he wasn't 100% sure, so I had that further down my to do list. Looks to me like it in fact MEFI can shut down the pump if it senses a "loss" of oil pressure. Good stuff to know!

I am relieved that it's good to go now. Should have done that sensor 5 weeks ago, but I know the inner workings of this beast much better than I did. To me that was worth the slight headache that this has caused me. I've got the mastercraft lt1 service manual and it was helpful in the diagnosis as well. I am going to read some more on that shortly and get a few questions answered through it.

Thanks again for the help folks!

pram
05-17-2012, 12:05 PM
That is fantastic news that you have it figured out. This has undoubtedly caused you a lot of grief and hair pulling. Again, that's great that you are back up and running

EricB
05-17-2012, 01:58 PM
Stx;
I just reviewed this thread and watched that video showing the cut-out occuring. It was interesting to see the oil gauge fluctuation and the cutting-out.
You mention that you have the Mastercraft LT1 Service manual. Where did you get it? Was it on-line or did you have to buy a paper version?

Stx221
05-17-2012, 02:06 PM
The service manual is a bound paper manual that the previous owner graciously handed over to me when I bought the boat from him.

Sorry that I can't email it to anyone.

pram
05-17-2012, 02:13 PM
Wonder where a person could pick one of those up, could come in handy at some point

19_Skier
05-17-2012, 02:30 PM
The service manual is a bound paper manual that the previous owner graciously handed over to me when I bought the boat from him.

Sorry that I can't email it to anyone.

you could get it digitized...just sayin' ;) of course if it's of any thickness you don't want to be doing that on a small, one page at a time, home scanner unless you have a case of beer beside you to pass the time!

Stx221
05-21-2012, 10:21 PM
It's quite the book(ish) thing. I'll grab it from the truck tomorrow and snap a picture of it for you guys.


The great news: early this afternoon after having two new tires put on the trailer, I loaded up the gear and headed to the lake this afternoon as I had scheduled today as vacation after a long weekend trip. The water was VERY choppy as it was pretty windy, but the air temps were about 75 and the water temps probably 55. No wetsuit, but I jumped in and took a couple quick passes on the skis and the wakeboard. I am a very happy person (albeit a little cold, but that's a different story).
The boat ran great! The only issue was the rough water, but I got to be behind the boat so I had to go..

mikeg205
05-22-2012, 09:45 AM
nice to read good news for change on the boat... :)

Stx221
05-22-2012, 05:27 PM
Yup, I am hoping more to come as well!

Now its time to get the radio squared away, buff the hull, clean the carpets, 303 the vinyl, clean anything and everything! Then its time for some fun..

pram
05-22-2012, 06:27 PM
Yup, I am hoping more to come as well!

Now its time to get the radio squared away, buff the hull, clean the carpets, 303 the vinyl, clean anything and everything! Then its time for some fun..

What are your plans in the tunes department?

Stx221
05-22-2012, 06:57 PM
What are your plans in the tunes department?

Probably looking like a decent head unit with 3 sets of preamp outs for expansion, a USB for iPod hookup and then 4 new speakers. I only have two in there now so I will have to cut for the rears. Not sure of brands yet, I've been looking more into fixing my running issue first.

Then later down the road I can upgrade to a 4 channel amp as well as a class d and 10" sub pretty easily. Those may be winter projects though.

Stx221
05-29-2012, 01:51 PM
Stereo on the back burner again.


Had a great weekend out on the water. Friday night charged up the battery completely. Sunday was on Winnipesaukee in NH with some friends and we were tied up in a bay almost all day hanging out. Went out for a quick wakeboard run, but otherwise just hung out. I let someone else supply the tunes, so the boat just floated with the key off. It ran great for the couple wakeboarding runs and to and from the hangout spot. My old fuel pressure dropping due to the failing oil pressure sending unit is no more, the boat ran great at 40mph. :D

Went out yesterday here in Maine and ran up a couple lakes, no issues until after I got back in the boat from a quick ski. My driver went to restart and the starter tried to turn the motor over and then just clicked. Dead battery, great.
2 Miller Lite's in trade for a jump from a guy heading the other way, and we were off again. Until about a mile down the lake when the voltmeter dropped to the bottom of the gauge and the motor started to cut out before finally stalling. Same thing, starter turns the engine for about a second and then clicks. Radio and horn still work fine, so we got a tow to the nearest boat launch, this time only costing one Bud Light. While I was tied to the dock at the launch (out of the way of traffic) we were listening to the radio while waiting for my tow rig to pick us up which was about 45 minutes. The radio played just fine, however the engine wouldn't start and the voltmeter showed no voltage. I think I may have a bad alternator on my hands and there was enough juice in the battery to run the radio but not start the engine. I am pretty sure the previous owner had the alternator rebuilt in 2008 (have to find the slip from his records to be sure of the date), so its possible that it needs replacement or rebuild. I haven't had a chance to do any testing yet and its supposed to rain all week, so I think I may just pull it from the boat and take it to a parts store to have that and the battery tested.

pram
05-29-2012, 02:13 PM
I would start with giving the battery a good charging to see how it is. Then check the connections. if you have a loose or corroded ground cable on the block it could be your issue. I know this is a silly question, but the serpentine belt is still in place right? I would also check all the connections on the back of the alternator

good luck with this hope it is an easy quick fix for you

Stx221
05-29-2012, 05:56 PM
I had the battery on the charger overnight Friday, so I cant imagine that based on my use (with 95% of it having the motor running when any accessories were on) would cause the battery to drain that quickly.

The serp belt is still in place and tight. I checked the battery terminals and all connections on the alternator and they are all tight. I will pull them apart and clean them just to be sure. I know I have a split on my bilge pump hose (I am replacing it shortly) that allows some water spray. I wonder if that hit the alternator if that could cause it to fail... Time to start testing!

I am thinking its either a bad ground or electrical connection, bad alternator or bad starter. I will wait for nicer weather as it is raining tonight and then give it a thorough looking over/testing with a voltmeter.

pram
05-29-2012, 06:49 PM
I went back and reread your post, the one minute run after the jump would indicate to me a dead battery that had some reserve left in it to run the ignition and computer

pull the alternator and have it tested? make sure that they know what they are doing because of the marine application.

Stx221
05-30-2012, 10:24 PM
An easy fix it was Pram. I got the hose hooked up via the bucket method this afternoon and got the boat running with a jump from the car which was conveniently placed next to the boat :D

After disconnecting the jumper cables, I had a voltmeter on the battery and it showed 11.5 volts across the terminals. I measured the voltage on the exciter wire on the alternator and the same 11.5 volts. The last spot was the charging wire from the alternator to the battery. If you guessed 11.5 volts, you win the same prize I did. The prize was the realization that I needed a new alternator :(

I decided to run a test since I had an adequate water supply to the motor, plenty of fuel and time to spare. I let the boat continue to run in the driveway and watched the voltage across all of the 3 same terminals. As the boat continued to run, the voltage kept dropping. Hit the throttle quickly and it dropped faster. Seems like a problem! At 8.5 volts the motor bogged down and quickly came back to life for a brief second before dying. As most alternator posts on this site say, the ECM just doesn't know how to fire the injectors with under 8.5 volts and shuts everything down.

I ran to NAPA and they had the correct 55 amp marine alternator in stock. I brought it home, threw a quick (20 minute or so) charge on the battery while I installed the alternator and then ran it. 14.3 volts across the battery terminals while running, 14.3 volts at the battery charge wire, and 12.6 volts at the exciter wire. I am "excited" that it runs well again :D :D
Not excited however that it cut into my Stereo upgrade fund, again! Although, I guess that I can lump this into that fund since it will provide the proper voltage for the stereo to run. I think a dual battery setup will be in order too! That way if something like this happens again, I can still get home.

pram
06-03-2012, 08:43 PM
That is great to hear that it was an easy fix.

Now for that stereo............................





















Just start singing loud an non-stop, your wife will be begging you to go buy a new one



hahahahahaha :)

mikeg205
06-03-2012, 09:36 PM
An easy fix it was Pram. I got the hose hooked up via the bucket method this afternoon and got the boat running with a jump from the car which was conveniently placed next to the boat :D

After disconnecting the jumper cables, I had a voltmeter on the battery and it showed 11.5 volts across the terminals. I measured the voltage on the exciter wire on the alternator and the same 11.5 volts. The last spot was the charging wire from the alternator to the battery. If you guessed 11.5 volts, you win the same prize I did. The prize was the realization that I needed a new alternator :(

I decided to run a test since I had an adequate water supply to the motor, plenty of fuel and time to spare. I let the boat continue to run in the driveway and watched the voltage across all of the 3 same terminals. As the boat continued to run, the voltage kept dropping. Hit the throttle quickly and it dropped faster. Seems like a problem! At 8.5 volts the motor bogged down and quickly came back to life for a brief second before dying. As most alternator posts on this site say, the ECM just doesn't know how to fire the injectors with under 8.5 volts and shuts everything down.

I ran to NAPA and they had the correct 55 amp marine alternator in stock. I brought it home, threw a quick (20 minute or so) charge on the battery while I installed the alternator and then ran it. 14.3 volts across the battery terminals while running, 14.3 volts at the battery charge wire, and 12.6 volts at the exciter wire. I am "excited" that it runs well again :D :D
Not excited however that it cut into my Stereo upgrade fund, again! Although, I guess that I can lump this into that fund since it will provide the proper voltage for the stereo to run. I think a dual battery setup will be in order too! That way if something like this happens again, I can still get home.

Is this the one you bought?

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=RPS7465PS_0232630281

Did it only come with the purple exciter wire? or red one too?

Stx221
06-04-2012, 08:17 PM
No wife to sing at in hopes of getting her to say "just go buy the stereo". Just a matter of me doing it.


Mgor, that's not the one I picked up. I can double check on the part number and get back to you. It had both the purple and red wires, however I set them off to the side as I didn't need either of them. I just hooked the factory wires right up to the new alternator.

mikeg205
06-04-2012, 08:34 PM
Thnx STX..picking up the the alternator in the link...but would like to know which part number you picked up thanks.

Stx221
06-04-2012, 10:55 PM
I went with this one:
http://napaautoparts.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=RPS12174S_0307369337

It had the right pulley on it and everything. Bolted right in.

mikeg205
06-05-2012, 12:32 AM
Yup...same one I am getting...the napa search engine flakes sometimes...great! thanks fort he confirmation.

Stx221
06-11-2012, 09:45 PM
Ah-ha! Had the boat on the water both days this past weekend. Had a great time skiing and pulling the rest of my family around Lake Zoar in CT. Boat ran like a dream, zero issues. I also got to ski on some serious glass on Saturday night after all the rain went through. It cleared up very nicely. I will post a pic of what it looked like right after I got back in the boat over in the glass water thread.

Saw a very nice '93 Limited in the Silverflake out on the lake. I was pretty shocked to see it go by. If it was someone on here, nice MC!

The ironic part of the weekend was on the way back to my parents house in CT at the end of the day Sunday. The boat had run very well all weekend and about 3 miles from their house, the fuel pump in the truck died. If its not one thing, its another! Anyway, its at the shop getting a new one as I am out of town this week again and need the rig in tip top shape to feed the need for having the boat on the water next weekend. :D

mikeg205
06-12-2012, 12:22 AM
Good to hear the boat is running well.... sorry about our truck...

Stx221
06-12-2012, 06:26 PM
I figured I would share as it is pretty ironic.

mikeg205
06-12-2012, 10:20 PM
always...something eh!!! -

Unstoppable
07-03-2012, 10:57 PM
whoops...

Unstoppable
07-03-2012, 11:03 PM
The fuel pump is $138 @ NAPA. I believe this is the correct part.

http://napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NFPP60962_0006468417&An=0 (http://napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NFPP60962_0006468417&An=0)

I see it's half the price of the marine version, but that is an automotive part, "Not for marine or aviation use". What do you guys make of that? Carter's old numbers were GP60962 for the automotive and P60962 for the marine.

I know the old school mechanical pumps had the fitting on the weep hole to put the fuel into the carb instead of the bilge if it failed, an obvious safety issue.

Does anyone know what safety upgrades they do to these to charge double the price?