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View Full Version : how to tell if damper plate is good or worn out.


pbgbottle
11-16-2011, 08:32 PM
hey guys just pulled my tranny to replace the rear main seal . how do i tell if the damper plate is getting tired . it has a few loose springs. and the whole center hub part has some slop. as if there was some missalignment

should i put a new one in there . i am a new owner of this boat so i don't no the history of this damper plate.

also another question that comes to my mind is about the loose hub .i had a bend bellhousing on my 4x4 and it would cause the hub to wear loose in the clutch disc the same as this damper plate is and it ended up being an alignment issue on the clutch disc prematurly wearing out the hub in the center of the disc .

so my question is how do you center the damper plate to the flywheel so that it is centered on a car you use a clutch disc alignment tool . how do you know it is centerd to the flywheel and the tranny input shaft. i would think the damper plate would have to be dead center so that the tranny input does not wear it out from side load or wallowing it loose. how come the tranny input does not seat into the crank like on a car to support the tip of the input shaft .or am i missing something.

nobody ever talks about engine to tranny aligment ,in a car this is important.
i would think you would need these two things in perfect alignment so as to not destroy the damper plate which in turn could cause your front tranny seals to wear out as well.

oh well just thinking out loud here .

see pics of damper i cleaned it up .how to tell if it is worn ?
it also looks like the starter was hitting the edge of the damper as well

P.S.

me being in Canada shipping is a biatche
does anybody have a NAPA part number for the rear main seal?

and is skidim the only place for the damper $200 bucks ouch !
i may have to place a big order with them and see if they will ship to a US adress for me.
and get everythnig i am going to need from them to restore this old boat in one big christmas present to myself


cheers

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mikeg205
11-16-2011, 08:36 PM
if its already out ... why not change it....not that expensive...all the hard work is down... change and fuhget about it... but that's just me.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-16-2011, 08:39 PM
I know nothing about these. Time for me to watch and learn.:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

-V-
11-16-2011, 10:09 PM
what does a damper plate do?

TOO-TALL
11-16-2011, 11:39 PM
If Your damper plate makes a rattle noise just off idle while in gear.Then it needs to be replaced. Mine made this noise and I knew it was time to replace..once I got it out I found three cracks in the plate.

I say if you have it out and it looks bad or has loose parts......change it....just my .002

pbgbottle
11-17-2011, 12:13 AM
i will change it for sure i don't want to take this apart again any time soon.

i am just curious about alignment . anybody else have any ideas . what if the tranny doesn't actually go straight through the middle splined part of the damper .if it is off to the side just a hair it will side load the damper plate causing premature failure .maybe even cracking around the bolt holes.
or cause the center hub part to become loose on the mounting rivits.

anybody ??

anybody see any issues with alignment and just bolting this thing on to the flywheel.
i guess i can hope that it was all lined up from the factory .but what if the bellhousing is slightly tweeked or the dowel pins in the engine block have worn or changed shape .
then the trany won't line up with a straight shot through the damper. there must be some way to make sure the damper is put on there perfectly centered to the input of the tranny .
i will be taking some measurements. ..

who knows maybe i am over thinking things


cheers

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thatsmrmastercraft
11-17-2011, 01:16 AM
I would give the guys at SKIDIM a call with that question. Another source would be to send JimN a PM.

TRBenj
11-17-2011, 09:51 AM
Replace it. If you have a Velvet Drive, you can get a high quality Sachs (Alta) damper from ebasicmarine for $90.

You want to get the damper perfectly centered. The trick Ive heard is to leave the bolts a little loose until the trans is installed, then go back and tighten them. You can access the bolts through the starter hole or if you drill a hole in the bellhousing.

You'll also want to align the whole powertrain in the boat.

pbgbottle
11-17-2011, 08:55 PM
ebasic marine for $90 i like this price
which one fits the ford 351 Application?

Kyle
11-17-2011, 09:17 PM
Not to nit pick things but I do believe the website is

www.ebasicpower.com

I'm looking for one for a buddy.

Kyle
11-17-2011, 09:18 PM
And correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is the link.

http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/pc/ALTDA-106/DAMPERS

Kyle
11-17-2011, 09:29 PM
Here is one from skidim

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R140001

It costs twice as much though like most of their items.


I've bought many things from www.ebasicpower.com and have been very pleased with them. They know A LOT about Borg Warner trannys. I bought a rebuild kit and a front pump from them (www.ebasicpower.com) when I was rebuilding my slot. The kit if I remember correctly was 1/3 the price from the skidim folks. This was before I had "MAJOR" issues with skidim due to service and was shopping them too. Now all I do is shop against them.

The $90 plate will be just fine.

pbgbottle
11-18-2011, 01:52 AM
i was researching the different drive plates .

google search DA106 drive plate can be found on various sites around $100 dollars but only mounts using 3 bolts. and is universal for all 14 inch large flywheels. be it GM or Ford.
found on ebay for $60 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drive-Damper-Plate-26-Spline-Marine-Gas-Small-Block-New-/390361110110?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item5ae355d65e

the skidim one. part # R140001 can be found for a bit cheaper but not much $179 and fits ford only and mounts with 6 bolts.

and just buy searching i found out that the one in my boat may be this one for a mercruiser?
fits ford and GM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruser-Engine-Drive-Plate-Adaptor-47608A1-26-tooth-Inboard-Ski-/120801013137?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item1c204d2d91


... not to sure if i only want my drive plate mounted with 3 bolts only.

Kyle
11-18-2011, 03:55 AM
Don't cut corners. The spline has to be 26 and I would look at a plate with 6 bolts.

-V-
11-18-2011, 10:17 AM
i still would like to know what it does.

Jorski
11-18-2011, 10:52 AM
It acts as a shock absorber between the engine and transmission...softening the shock that would occur when the transmission is put into gear.

TRBenj
11-18-2011, 11:23 AM
There is absolutely no problem with attaching the damper with 3 bolts.

Not only is the $90 alta/sachs plate "fine", it is actually of superior quality to the $200 plate at SkiDIM. I have no idea why they dont carry it.

^^^Both pieces of advice come straight from the mouth of a well respected professional marine transmission rebuilder^^^

I use the sachs plates exclusively on my Velvet Drive boats, and have had no issues. Ive put them in 3 boats so far and a 4th one is getting one in the spring.

Kyle, thanks for the correction the ebasicpower link... brainfart on my part.

pbgbottle
11-18-2011, 08:22 PM
There is absolutely no problem with attaching the damper with 3 bolts.

Not only is the $90 alta/sachs plate "fine", it is actually of superior quality to the $200 plate at SkiDIM. I have no idea why they dont carry it.

.


with all the reading i have done.i'm pretty sure SKiDIM does sell it they just don't mention that it fits the ford also .this one

http://www.skidim.com/DAMPER-DRIVE-PLATE-GM-SMALL-BLOCK/productinfo/R140004/

same as the ALTDA-106

the 106 damper is a GM damper just compatible with the ford flywheel also .only issue is you may have to trim the legs abit and you also need to put a washer or spacer under the damper so it is spaced out abit from the flywheel so it will fit properly if you don't the rivets in the middle will hit the flywheel


,,,,

pbgbottle
11-18-2011, 08:40 PM
here are pics of what i am trying to describe from my flywheel and a universal GM disc.
and were it hits the starter drive gear .see pics i circled stuff in red you can see the shiny spots from the damper rubbing on the flywheel and the starter gear marks .so while i was doing some research i had read that you should space the saches plate out with some washers so it doesn't hit the flywheel when mounting it to a ford flywheel.

see pics


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TRBenj
11-21-2011, 02:19 PM
with all the reading i have done.i'm pretty sure SKiDIM does sell it they just don't mention that it fits the ford also .this one

http://www.skidim.com/DAMPER-DRIVE-PLATE-GM-SMALL-BLOCK/productinfo/R140004/

same as the ALTDA-106

the 106 damper is a GM damper just compatible with the ford flywheel also .only issue is you may have to trim the legs abit and you also need to put a washer or spacer under the damper so it is spaced out abit from the flywheel so it will fit properly if you don't the rivets in the middle will hit the flywheel


,,,,
Interesting theory... not sure why SkiDIM would only market that plate towards the GM's if it fit both. Youre correct that the Alta/Sachs plate is universal, so theres a good chance its the same.

Ive never noticed the rivits rubbing on the flywheel though- and Ive installed the Alta/Sachs plate on 3 Ford powered boats.

pbgbottle
11-21-2011, 03:35 PM
Interesting theory... not sure why SkiDIM would only market that plate towards the GM's if it fit both. Youre correct that the Alta/Sachs plate is universal, so theres a good chance its the same.

Ive never noticed the rivits rubbing on the flywheel though- and Ive installed the Alta/Sachs plate on 3 Ford powered boats.


this was why i started this thread in the first place because of the rivets rubbing .
i wanted to learn about the different damper plates


my rivet rubbing issue may just be that this damper plate was wrong it was a mercruiser part.
and expensive.PO bought it

but it was listed as fitting a ford
specs below

part# PLATE ASSY 47608A 1

Engine Drive Plate Triangular shape Fits MIE 215, 225, 233 & 255 Ford;
MIE & Ski GM V-8 (305, 327 & 350 cid) engines

and this info i found on the net for the sachs one.
also about spacing it out .but who knows .quote below

This drive plate can also be used with Ford small blocks by trimming about a half inch off of the ends and using washers to space it out from the flywheel (will only use 3 bolts total instead of 6).


cheers Jake

.................

pbgbottle
12-12-2011, 10:16 PM
update went with the PCM plate. #R140001 a little more cash but it fits perfect .the center section is raised up so as to not rub on the flywheel. i hope it is a good plate. anyways a few pics .sorry for the green color it was the only rust paint i had left.

pic 1 shows the front of the plate
pic 2 back of plate
pic 3 flywheel repainted and lightly sanded to remove small debris
pic 4 damper plate back on with new shouldered bolts.
pic 5 tranny back in .

it only took about half an hour to bolt everything back on and slide the trany home.

mikeg205
12-12-2011, 10:24 PM
nice...thanks for the pics...nice job

Cloaked
12-13-2011, 12:00 AM
How much of the engine did you have to move? I see two jacks raising the rear. Did you have to realign the engine or have you gotten that far yet?

.

pbgbottle
12-13-2011, 03:27 PM
i haven't got that far yet .i just unbolted the rear mounts and jacked it up just enough to pull the tranny. i will need to try to realign the engine because i have removed the strut also , it was tweeked abit ,so an alignment was due anyways . we'll see how it goes.




How much of the engine did you have to move? I see two jacks raising the rear. Did you have to realign the engine or have you gotten that far yet?

.

mart_it
04-30-2012, 10:54 PM
Where did you purchase your PCM plate?
I'm in the middle of doing this too.

pbgbottle
05-01-2012, 12:23 AM
i live close to the border so i ordered it online from skidim
wow looks like there price went up . they have a promo discount codeposted on there site if you look around. all the PCM plates come round instead of trianglular now.

http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1100

and shipped it to a US adress and went down and picked it up .


Where did you purchase your PCM plate?
I'm in the middle of doing this too.