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adkskier
11-08-2011, 07:43 PM
Sunday i decide to replace the thermostat because i had determined that was why i wasnt getting any tempeture on the guage. shorted te gaged and it pined. so that wwas fine. Opened up the thermostar housing was surprised to fin no thermostat? anyways i replaced it sealed it all back up, all was good.

Then this afternoon is was so nice i decided to take the boat out one last time. Endedup doing a skiing run in a shortie wetsuit. After the skier waas picked up we looked in the engine compartment to find the boats bilge full, the fresh water intake hose from had broke or exploded?

not sure if the boat couldnt handle a thermostat and thats why it didnt have one or just didnt open?

the water was freezing. Not sure what went wrong but have decided to remove the thermostat and let it run like it was. and of course replace the house:cool: if it helps its a 1991 prostar 190 with a 351 indmar windsor with powerslot. about 600 hours

UPDATE replaced the hose and took out the thermo for now(reinstall in the spring) and went to start the but up and the starter wont ingage? just spins. batterys a great one and its not that. not sure if it went into somekind of safe mode (overheat maybe)??? looking for ideas

JMann
11-08-2011, 07:52 PM
I would run the thermostat and buy a new hose. Maybe the hose was dry and cracked and it was only a coincidence it broke after you installed the thermostat.

adkskier
11-08-2011, 07:56 PM
but the why would the previous owner, who i know is very anal about the boat, leave it out because it ran perfect without one.

mikeg205
11-08-2011, 08:31 PM
maybe he was sooo OCD he did not trust the thermostat and thought running cooler was better...not. How old was the hose that broke?

adkskier
11-08-2011, 08:32 PM
i was told it was orginal, but it didnt look or feel like it. boat run great before it was put in. asked previous owner if he knew anyhting about it and he said he never had a problem with it

mikeg205
11-08-2011, 08:39 PM
oooo...1991 - that's an old hose....

Cloaked
11-08-2011, 08:48 PM
oooo...1991 - that's an old hose....
X 2.

Replace your hoses and run the thermo. I'd replace the exhaust hoses also.


.

mikeg205
11-08-2011, 08:50 PM
Great...the exhaust hose topic again... now I will have t change mine or think about all the time...

mikeg205
11-08-2011, 08:52 PM
:Dokay --- only about $20 bucks a foot... from skidim.com...order in...:D

Jim@BAWS
11-08-2011, 09:15 PM
Did you replace the thermostat with a marine or auto thermostat??

Lumbergh
11-08-2011, 11:12 PM
I'm changing all water hoses this winter.

Most of mine are blue "Mastercraft" logo (ed). Original hoses, just 'cause they haven't failed, yet, are a problem waiting to happen on an older boat.

Maybe $100 for all of the 1" 1/4 and 1" hoses.

My exhaust all look good, already replaced one of the 4.

adkskier
11-09-2011, 07:57 AM
Did you replace the thermostat with a marine or auto thermostat??

straight off of skidim

adkskier
11-09-2011, 08:00 AM
I'm changing all water hoses this winter.

Most of mine are blue "Mastercraft" logo (ed). Original hoses, just 'cause they haven't failed, yet, are a problem waiting to happen on an older boat.

Maybe $100 for all of the 1" 1/4 and 1" hoses.

My exhaust all look good, already replaced one of the 4.

same with most of mine all have the orginal hoses. was there just to much pressure with the thermostat that the hose wasnt use to?

Table Rocker
11-09-2011, 10:25 AM
With a thermostat installed, you will have higher pressure in your water hoses. A closed thermostat is not letting water flow through the block. You most likely had a failure due to the higher pressure.

Wake190
11-09-2011, 08:28 PM
After reading this thread, I'm afraid my thermostat is stuck open. It never heats up past 130, but runs perfect (96 PS190 TBI, 1:1). Should I have any concerns about replacing the thermostat and getting it up to 160? The boat has been this way for the four years I've owned it, who knows how much longer. Sounds like I need to be ready to buy some hoses, too...

ahhudgins
11-09-2011, 08:38 PM
After reading this thread, I'm afraid my thermostat is stuck open. It never heats up past 130, but runs perfect (96 PS190 TBI, 1:1). Should I have any concerns about replacing the thermostat and getting it up to 160? The boat has been this way for the four years I've owned it, who knows how much longer. Sounds like I need to be ready to buy some hoses, too...

Check your owners manual or pull the thermostat. Some use a 142 degree, my 95 does.

ahhudgins
11-09-2011, 08:46 PM
Sunday i decide to replace the thermostat because i had determined that was why i wasnt getting any tempeture on the guage. shorted te gaged and it pined. so that wwas fine. Opened up the thermostar housing was surprised to fin no thermostat? anyways i replaced it sealed it all back up, all was good.

Then this afternoon is was so nice i decided to take the boat out one last time. Endedup doing a skiing run in a shortie wetsuit. After the skier waas picked up we looked in the engine compartment to find the boats bilge full, the fresh water intake hose from had broke or exploded?

not sure if the boat couldnt handle a thermostat and thats why it didnt have one or just didnt open?

the water was freezing. Not sure what went wrong but have decided to remove the thermostat and let it run like it was. and of course replace the house:cool: if it helps its a 1991 prostar 190 with a 351 indmar windsor with powerslot. about 600 hours

Which hose broke, the one BEFORE the impeller or AFTER the impeller? Hose before the impeller only has suction, the one after the impeller shouldn't "explode" unless you have a blockage or just an old worn out hose. The thermostat housing has ports to vent the water to the exhaust manifolds even when the thermostat is completely shut so pressure shouldn't be an issue unless you have a blockage. You may want to check all hoses and ports for old pieces of impeller just to be sure.

You are also burning more gas and causing more engine wear by not using a thermostat.

Phntmski
11-10-2011, 09:56 AM
Hoses can look good as new. Most of the time they rot from the inside out.

TRBenj
11-10-2011, 06:17 PM
With a thermostat installed, you will have higher pressure in your water hoses. A closed thermostat is not letting water flow through the block. You most likely had a failure due to the higher pressure.
Incorrect.

The thermostat controls the water flow OUT of the engine, after the block heads and intake have been filled with water and then come up to temp. Water can always flow in. There should NEVER be a buildup of pressure regardless of whether the thermostat is installed, or what the position of the thermostat is. If the stat is closed, then the water coming into the thermostat housing will be directed right back out of the exhaust.

The split hose was likely caused by being removed from the 'stat housing when you changed the thermostat. At best, its a coincidence. Its failure should not drive you to remove the thermostat. Running the engine that cold (likely under 100 deg) all the time is doing a lot more harm than good.

adkskier
11-10-2011, 06:57 PM
Incorrect.

The thermostat controls the water flow OUT of the engine, after the block heads and intake have been filled with water and then come up to temp. Water can always flow in. There should NEVER be a buildup of pressure regardless of whether the thermostat is installed, or what the position of the thermostat is. If the stat is closed, then the water coming into the thermostat housing will be directed right back out of the exhaust.

The split hose was likely caused by being removed from the 'stat housing when you changed the thermostat. At best, its a coincidence. Its failure should not drive you to remove the thermostat. Running the engine that cold (likely under 100 deg) all the time is doing a lot more harm than good.

when i looked closer at the thermostat today i think i might have used too much liquid gasket maker the could have kept the thermostat closed. After discovering the blown hose all the exhaust and blocks were very hot.

ahhudgins
11-10-2011, 08:09 PM
when i looked closer at the thermostat today i think i might have used too much liquid gasket maker the could have kept the thermostat closed. After discovering the blown hose all the exhaust and blocks were very hot.

After you get your hose(s) and thermostat installed, make sure you keep an eye on your temperature gauge, especially when you are at idle. When the boat is moving, water is being pushed into the raw water pump. At idle the pump must suck the water into the hose.
I don't know how long the engine ran after the hose started to leak, but you could have done some damage to the exhaust hoses if water wasn't cooling them down. Run it in the driveway for a while and check things out before hitting the lake. Good luck.

Cloaked
11-10-2011, 08:39 PM
..........My exhaust all look good, already replaced one of the 4.They can look good but be internally degraded. The exhaust hoses coming off the risers can collapse internally.

.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-10-2011, 09:55 PM
They can look good but be internally degraded. The exhaust hoses coming off the risers can collapse internally.

.

Classic picture.

adkskier
11-10-2011, 11:43 PM
After you get your hose(s) and thermostat installed, make sure you keep an eye on your temperature gauge, especially when you are at idle. When the boat is moving, water is being pushed into the raw water pump. At idle the pump must suck the water into the hose.
I don't know how long the engine ran after the hose started to leak, but you could have done some damage to the exhaust hoses if water wasn't cooling them down. Run it in the driveway for a while and check things out before hitting the lake. Good luck.

was attempting to video tape during the ski run but it ran under 160 all the way down to the desired ski run spot. ( maybe 20 minutes) both idle and speed

adkskier
11-10-2011, 11:46 PM
Which hose broke, the one BEFORE the impeller or AFTER the impeller? Hose before the impeller only has suction, the one after the impeller shouldn't "explode" unless you have a blockage or just an old worn out hose. The thermostat housing has ports to vent the water to the exhaust manifolds even when the thermostat is completely shut so pressure shouldn't be an issue unless you have a blockage. You may want to check all hoses and ports for old pieces of impeller just to be sure.

You are also burning more gas and causing more engine wear by not using a thermostat.

i believe it was after

adkskier
11-16-2011, 05:40 PM
UPDATE replaced the hose and took out the thermo for now(reinstall in the spring) and went to start the but up and the starter wont ingage? just spins. batterys a great one and its not that. not sure if it went into somekind of safe mode (overheat maybe)??? looking for ideas

mikeg205
11-16-2011, 08:06 PM
UPDATE replaced the hose and took out the thermo for now(reinstall in the spring) and went to start the but up and the starter wont ingage? just spins. batterys a great one and its not that. not sure if it went into somekind of safe mode (overheat maybe)??? looking for ideas

spinning not engaging.... solenoid?

mikeg205
11-16-2011, 08:14 PM
They can look good but be internally degraded. The exhaust hoses coming off the risers can collapse internally.

.

Love this pic... we should give the thing a name.... it reminds me of the creature from the move "Dune"

mikeg205
11-16-2011, 08:18 PM
They can look good but be internally degraded. The exhaust hoses coming off the risers can collapse internally.

.

love this pick...we should name it...it reminds of the creatures from the movie "dune"

adkskier
11-16-2011, 08:20 PM
spinning not engaging.... solenoid?

that was one of my guesses too....

thatsmrmastercraft
11-16-2011, 08:25 PM
UPDATE replaced the hose and took out the thermo for now(reinstall in the spring) and went to start the but up and the starter wont ingage? just spins. batterys a great one and its not that. not sure if it went into somekind of safe mode (overheat maybe)??? looking for ideas

spinning not engaging.... solenoid?

The shaft the starter drive (Bendix) rides on requires periodic lubrication to prevent this from happening. You will need to remove the starter and get a little grease on this shaft. You might attempt to clean the shaft with a little brake or carb cleaner prior to lubrication.

If this were to happen out on the water, a few whacks will sometimes free up the starter drive and allow one more start. If this were the case, and it started, I wouldn't shut it off until it was on the trailer.

It isn't the solenoid, as the starter is getting power to spin the starter motor.

adkskier
11-16-2011, 08:39 PM
The shaft the starter drive (Bendix) rides on requires periodic lubrication to prevent this from happening. You will need to remove the starter and get a little grease on this shaft. You might attempt to clean the shaft with a little brake or carb cleaner prior to lubrication.

If this were to happen out on the water, a few whacks will sometimes free up the starter drive and allow one more start. If this were the case, and it started, I wouldn't shut it off until it was on the trailer.

It isn't the solenoid, as the starter is getting power to spin the starter motor.

I cannot turn the engine over aswell (by hand or wrench)

thatsmrmastercraft
11-16-2011, 08:42 PM
I cannot turn the engine over aswell (by hand or wrench)

Are you saying the engine is seized and will not turn at all?

thatsmrmastercraft
11-16-2011, 08:46 PM
Sunday i decide to replace the thermostat because i had determined that was why i wasnt getting any tempeture on the guage. shorted te gaged and it pined. so that wwas fine. Opened up the thermostar housing was surprised to fin no thermostat? anyways i replaced it sealed it all back up, all was good.

Then this afternoon is was so nice i decided to take the boat out one last time. Endedup doing a skiing run in a shortie wetsuit. After the skier waas picked up we looked in the engine compartment to find the boats bilge full, the fresh water intake hose from had broke or exploded?

not sure if the boat couldnt handle a thermostat and thats why it didnt have one or just didnt open?

the water was freezing. Not sure what went wrong but have decided to remove the thermostat and let it run like it was. and of course replace the house:cool: if it helps its a 1991 prostar 190 with a 351 indmar windsor with powerslot. about 600 hours

UPDATE replaced the hose and took out the thermo for now(reinstall in the spring) and went to start the but up and the starter wont ingage? just spins. batterys a great one and its not that. not sure if it went into somekind of safe mode (overheat maybe)??? looking for ideas

After re-reading your first post, it sounds as though your starter got wet. I would remove the starter and have it tested. Might be enough corrosion that you need to have it rebuilt.

adkskier
11-16-2011, 08:54 PM
i think that may be the case. or hydrolocked

-V-
11-16-2011, 10:12 PM
whats hydro-locked?

thatsmrmastercraft
11-16-2011, 10:21 PM
i think that may be the case. or hydrolocked

Pull the dipstick and find out what is going on. If you have water in the oil pan you need to get it out immediately.

adkskier
11-17-2011, 08:06 AM
Pull the dipstick and find out what is going on. If you have water in the oil pan you need to get it out immediately.

already did, it looked great.

Table Rocker
11-17-2011, 10:41 AM
whats hydro-locked?
Hydro-locked is water in one or more of the cylinders. When the piston comes up and the valves are closed, it can't compress the water and won't turn over.

Kyle
11-17-2011, 01:58 PM
You can also pull the plugs out and try to spin it over. If that doesn't work remove the starter. If that doesn't work it's a tear down...

adkskier
11-17-2011, 06:22 PM
pulled the plugs and checked each for any sign of water and none was found, so i think it isnt hydrolocked, will take plugs out again and try to spin it over. might have seized a piston or broke a ring or something

adkskier
11-18-2011, 10:35 PM
Sunday i decide to replace the thermostat because i had determined that was why i wasnt getting any tempeture on the guage. shorted te gaged and it pined. so that wwas fine. Opened up the thermostar housing was surprised to fin no thermostat? anyways i replaced it sealed it all back up, all was good.

Then this afternoon is was so nice i decided to take the boat out one last time. Endedup doing a skiing run in a shortie wetsuit. After the skier waas picked up we looked in the engine compartment to find the boats bilge full, the fresh water intake hose from had broke or exploded?

not sure if the boat couldnt handle a thermostat and thats why it didnt have one or just didnt open?

the water was freezing. Not sure what went wrong but have decided to remove the thermostat and let it run like it was. and of course replace the house:cool: if it helps its a 1991 prostar 190 with a 351 indmar windsor with powerslot. about 600 hours

UPDATE replaced the hose and took out the thermo for now(reinstall in the spring) and went to start the but up and the starter wont ingage? just spins. batterys a great one and its not that. not sure if it went into somekind of safe mode (overheat maybe)??? looking for ideas

before removing the starter to look at it i dicided to tap it a bit, and god forbid it started!

Jerseydave
11-18-2011, 11:02 PM
Sounds like your starter drive is not engaging into the ring gear. Time for a new starter, and check the teeth on the ring gear to make sure none are missing too.

mikeg205
11-19-2011, 05:28 PM
Did you ever try turning the motor with all the plugs out?

If you were spraying water all over the place in the bilge because of the hose failure, it is possible the solenoid relay is fried and will not send the pinion gear into the fly wheel.

Still curious if you can turn the crank shaft with all plugs removed.

adkskier
11-19-2011, 09:51 PM
Did you ever try turning the motor with all the plugs out?

If you were spraying water all over the place in the bilge because of the hose failure, it is possible the solenoid relay is fried and will not send the pinion gear into the fly wheel.

Still curious if you can turn the crank shaft with all plugs removed.

i wastn able to. i have the oj drip shaft so im not sure it got alot of water an was hard to spin before i came along to the solution of tapping the starter. now shes starting up like she should with hesitation:D

mikeg205
11-20-2011, 11:54 AM
i wastn able to. i have the oj drip shaft so im not sure it got alot of water an was hard to spin before i came along to the solution of tapping the starter. now shes starting up like she should with hesitation:D

outstanding...glad your fixed...or know start needs replacing or rebuild/maintenance...

adkskier
11-20-2011, 12:17 PM
outstanding...glad your fixed...or know start needs replacing or rebuild/maintenance...

now off tostorage for winter:(

mikeg205
11-20-2011, 01:15 PM
:DHit the gym..to stay in shape... keeps me sane when I can't ski... watchin' the mastercraft minutes....:D don't forget the adult beverages when needed :toast: