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View Full Version : Soopin' Er Up - "Gangsta Style"


Phntmski
11-03-2011, 12:04 AM
Today begins the overhaul of a perfectly good engine. My 91 PS 190, 250hp 351W, Powerslot, 1107 hrs will soon have better than 300hp. Hope it all goes well!!

I have pics to post of the proceedings but don't seem to have the tech savy to get em on here. :confused: I'll work on that.

Phntmski
11-03-2011, 12:10 AM
http://mail.aol.com/34290-311/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=32002962&folder=OldMail&partId=1

Phntmski
11-03-2011, 12:10 AM
Well, it's a start but not really what I had in mind.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-03-2011, 08:52 AM
Give this a try.

1. Click Paperclip icon
2. Click Browse button
3. Locate the picture in your computer and click on it
4. Click Upload button ( to the right of the Browse button)
5. Once picture is uploaded (it will take a moment or two) it will show as Current Attachment
6. Click Close Window button
7. After you have entered text, use Preview Post button to make sure you selected the proper picture.

Phntmski
11-03-2011, 10:09 AM
Was playing with pic posting a little this mornin before going to work and found that icon but didn't have time to get anything done. Will try again tonight.

I can tell you I'm going back with GT40P heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, stock 4160 carb and am looking at that "ski cam" from Cam Research in Denver (any input on that would be appreciated). Also will get block miked - bored if needed, honed if not, vatted (which should help it maintain normal operating temp), new rings, new pistons if needed, new push rods, bearings and seals, crank checked and anything else I can come up with between now and back-together that's just not rediculous $. Plan on matching ports and maybe balancing weight.

SHOULD BE FUN!!

Will keep updates here.

east tx skier
11-03-2011, 10:58 AM
Intake and heads should get you close to 300 hp. Cam research is the place for the cam. Go with what they recommend. Should be a screamer with the gear reduction like a cherry on top.

gatorguy
11-03-2011, 11:03 AM
I like it, I like it a lot. Now for some pictures.

Kyle
11-03-2011, 02:40 PM
:popcorn: Still Waiting On Pics :popcorn:

Phntmski
11-03-2011, 03:20 PM
It'll be tonight. I see you got your popcorn ready!

scott023
11-03-2011, 04:17 PM
:wait: :wait:

Phntmski
11-03-2011, 07:39 PM
Forgot to get the first pic before anything was done but kinda went crazy after that, here's a few:

Lumbergh
11-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Sweet project.

Keep the pics coming as you progress.

Dino Don
11-03-2011, 10:12 PM
Put flat top pisons in it--get the recessed ones out. Be interested in the spec's for the cam you decide to use???

Phntmski
11-04-2011, 07:38 AM
I'll keep pics coming and will look into the pistons. What about valve clearance?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
11-04-2011, 08:25 AM
Looks like a perfect canidate for a stroker kit,

Dino Don
11-04-2011, 09:05 AM
I'll keep pics coming and will look into the pistons. What about valve clearance?

No issues with clearance--flat tops have valve relief besides unless you deck the block then still shouldn't be-that's something you check as you build if you think there's an issue. I didn't deck my block but have GT40P heads with flat tops w/relief both sides and no issues. Be sure to balance that thing!

Phntmski
11-04-2011, 12:23 PM
Coming off a basically trouble free 1100hr engine I have 2 objectives; more power and just as important is that I do it once and get another 1000+ hrs out of it. As much as I'm enjoying doing this work, it's not something I want to repeat anytime soon. I really want to be able to, with regular maintenance, just ski! Just don't want to put stress on pieces so that they wear and fail prematurely.

TxsRiverRat
11-04-2011, 12:46 PM
NICE - cant wait to ski behind it again -


will you have your boat out for polar bear, scott?

Phntmski
11-04-2011, 01:24 PM
I can't wait to ski behind it! I seriously doubt I'll use my boat for polar bear, but stranger things have happened.

Willski
11-04-2011, 02:01 PM
Good project...keep the pics coming and all of us lurkers will be happy!!

TxsRiverRat
11-04-2011, 02:37 PM
I can't wait to ski behind it! I seriously doubt I'll use my boat for polar bear, but stranger things have happened.

Especially with kyle wotking on KST (kyle standard time!)

LOLOL!

Kyle
11-04-2011, 03:36 PM
Especially with kyle wotking on KST (kyle standard time!)

LOLOL!

Easy there buddy 3.5 to 4 hours to have it out and on the stand to just a short block is not bad timing. Especially pulling it without an a frame. Lighten up there buddy or KST will prevail with your carb :D

Bouyhead
11-04-2011, 03:37 PM
Cool thread. Can't believe no one commented on the flip flops yet;)

_____________________

Kyle
11-04-2011, 03:41 PM
Cool thread. Can't believe no one commented on the flip flops yet;)

_____________________

Easy my feet are dead sexy lol

Phntmski
11-04-2011, 03:49 PM
Let's not forget, you might be the brains behind the operation but you weren't the only one there!

Someone had to take pics!!

Kyle
11-04-2011, 03:54 PM
Let's not forget, you might be the brains behind the operation but you weren't the only one there!

Someone had to take pics!!

Oh I sure haven't forgotten. You take the pics, give a big hand, and spend the perfectly good green backs $$$$. I am looking forward to this project so much. Just got to be able to beat Mark in a drag race.

Kyle
11-04-2011, 04:03 PM
Well I wanted to stay anonymous during the build to see if anyone would put the fact that we are using my storage shop and the whole gangsta style together as me helping out during the build, but TxsRiverRat blew my cover. I guess I'll add some pics I took as well.

Glad we will have another Gangsta. Ole Scott now needs to lean the seat back a little and drive with the gangsta lean. That's why Taylor mc190 gave me my title of "Gangsta Style".

Phntmski
11-04-2011, 04:06 PM
I could already beat him in a 50 yard dash, now I'll be able to go the rest of the way. Read the story about your race with him. No way he could beat you straight up in any race.

Phntmski
11-04-2011, 04:14 PM
I'm lookin forward to doing it, getting it done and skiing behind it on a beautiful day. Lake time is the best time.

TxsRiverRat
11-04-2011, 05:01 PM
I could beat you both on foot regardless of how may horses those old TRAWLERS you call ski boats have!

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

Phntmski
11-04-2011, 07:23 PM
I could beat you both on foot regardless of how may horses those old TRAWLERS you call ski boats have!

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

Thing is, I didn't join a foot club. I'm a SKIER in MSC!
:purplaugh :purplaugh :purplaugh

Kyle
11-07-2011, 06:00 PM
Well she's ready to go to the machine shop and it's bagged up. Today was the second day after it. Everything is labeled and cleaned and ready for paint.

Kyle
11-07-2011, 06:08 PM
Today was very productive. Worked and listened to 99.5 "The Wolf" and drank a few brew ha ha's

Phntmski
11-07-2011, 11:18 PM
:guitar::guitar::guitar::guitar:

You rock Kyle!!

Nice work, I appreciate all you do but don't do everything! Looks very nice! See you wed.

Phntmski
11-07-2011, 11:21 PM
:headbang::headbang:

That's my 4 guitar army.

Kyle
11-08-2011, 12:15 AM
:headbang::headbang:

That's my 4 guitar army.

See you Wednesday. Don't worry about anything. I was bored as he|| today and needed something to do. I went to the barn and was working my regular job answering phones and working on your engine. Can't wait to take you to the 3 shops on Wednesday. Keith has several cars that will make you jizz in your pants and that's the first shop. Can't wait.

Dino Don
11-08-2011, 07:12 AM
Kyle, ya'll picked a cam for that engine yet??

Phntmski
11-08-2011, 08:22 AM
Gonna use that "ski cam" from Cam Research. Don't want to get too radical. Stock everything but GT40P heads, Performer intake and the cam. I want more power but not at the expense of reliability/durability. Also don't want to boost the CR up so that I have to buy premium gas. I'm cheap that way.

Dino Don
11-08-2011, 08:42 AM
Gonna use that "ski cam" from Cam Research. Don't want to get too radical. Stock everything but GT40P heads, Performer intake and the cam. I want more power but not at the expense of reliability/durability. Also don't want to boost the CR up so that I have to buy premium gas. I'm cheap that way.

Do you have the spec's on that camshaft? Looked on their web site and did not see a link to get anything like that.

CantRepeat
11-08-2011, 09:12 AM
I haven't been on in a while, well not for any length of time.

First thing I noticed was the big banner and thought that was your shop/storage place.

I'd not be any help other then sitting in a lawn chair drinking all your beer!

Kyle
11-08-2011, 09:35 AM
Do you have the spec's on that camshaft? Looked on their web site and did not see a link to get anything like that.

Yes they are on a piece of paper somewhere. The cam is not ordered yet but it's a little different than mine. I'll look for specs.

Phntmski
11-08-2011, 09:36 AM
Don - 460 lift, 212 @ 50 int, 220 @ 50 exh, 212 LS. Not much more agressive than stock and still idles smooth. They'll also break it in for me.

Dino Don
11-08-2011, 08:37 PM
Don - 460 lift, 212 @ 50 int, 220 @ 50 exh, 212 LS. Not much more agressive than stock and still idles smooth. They'll also break it in for me.

Worried about the breakin deal but all went well. Thought real hard about a retro-fit roller but didn't. Still might change next year only have 7 hours on it still need more time to see how it's going to do. Runs real good so far. Mine valve lift--int 466/exh 483
lobe lift int 290/exh 302
Dura @ 50 int 207/exh 213
Center line int 108/exh 116
Mines sounds different but idles smooth--good out of the hole and that's all that counts.

TRBenj
11-09-2011, 09:16 AM
Don - 460 lift, 212 @ 50 int, 220 @ 50 exh, 212 LS. Not much more agressive than stock and still idles smooth. They'll also break it in for me.
You might be surprised how much more aggressive you can go vs. stock and still have a smooth idle. Cam Research makes nice bumpsticks but they are notorious for being conservative in their ski boat recommendations. If its not too late, you'd appreciate a bigger cam... something in the .490 range at least.

Kyle
11-09-2011, 08:29 PM
Well everything is at either one of the machine shops or on order. Bout to have a bunch of boxes arrive in the next 2-3 weeks.

Here is ole Scott cleaning away.

Sullivan
11-09-2011, 09:06 PM
:popcorn: Trying to follow along with all the smack talk. We need youtube video of a foot race.

Dino Don
11-09-2011, 10:10 PM
Machine shop told me that the biggest issue can be the cooling passages in the block become clogged over time and restrict the flow and causes heating problems and people can't figure out what's going on. Slow non-presurized cooling systems and we run these things in shallow water and pull up silk that collects in the blocks and the trouble begins???

Kyle
11-09-2011, 11:22 PM
Machine shop told me that the biggest issue can be the cooling passages in the block become clogged over time and restrict the flow and causes heating problems and people can't figure out what's going on. Slow non-presurized cooling systems and we run these things in shallow water and pull up silk that collects in the blocks and the trouble begins???

Mine stays about roughly 130* don't know bout the rest of you guys. 120* stat

Dino Don
11-09-2011, 11:27 PM
Mine runs about 160 now with a new 160 stat from Skidm--old one was the original and was running about 140. It ran up to about 150 and then released. It's a wonder it still worked after so long a time-never gave any trouble and I never thought about changing it.

Kyle
11-10-2011, 03:30 AM
Mine runs about 160 now with a new 160 stat from Skidm--old one was the original and was running about 140. It ran up to about 150 and then released. It's a wonder it still worked after so long a time-never gave any trouble and I never thought about changing it.

Don you problem is the fact that your stat came from skidim. Put an oem stat in and it will cool better and your dollar will be appreciated more from your MC dealer.

Once again I can't stand Skidim. They are so rude and inconsiderate. If they had the only part ever to fix my boat in the whole world.....I'd still would rather sell my boat and buy another boat to replace it than spend $0.01 with skidim. They treated me like whale and shark chit on the ocean floor. Horrible service and my $,$$$ was not green enough. Yes my bill was in the above more like 2k range and they still treated the guy buying a cotter key better than me. They suk.

Phntmski
11-10-2011, 08:51 AM
Bout to have a boat with exceptional "get it"!

Kyle, get some sleep. :cool:

gatorguy
11-10-2011, 09:17 AM
Don you problem is the fact that your stat came from skidim. Put an oem stat in and it will cool better and your dollar will be appreciated more from your MC dealer.

Once again I can't stand Skidim. They are so rude and inconsiderate. If they had the only part ever to fix my boat in the whole world.....I'd still would rather sell my boat and buy another boat to replace it than spend $0.01 with skidim. They treated me like whale and shark chit on the ocean floor. Horrible service and my $,$$$ was not green enough. Yes my bill was in the above more like 2k range and they still treated the guy buying a cotter key better than me. They suk.

Tell us how you really feel.:rolleyes:

My 97 runs at 160 with and without the water pump. I lost the fan belt (I know there is no fan, but I don't know what else to call it) while surfing in lake powell, and it didn't get hot on me. I figured it out because it quit charging on me, and I make it a habit of looking under the hood periodically. We were probably a good half hour without a belt and it never lost a step, or went over 160.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-10-2011, 09:28 AM
Tell us how you really feel.:rolleyes:

My 97 runs at 160 with and without the water pump. I lost the fan belt (I know there is no fan, but I don't know what else to call it) while surfing in lake powell, and it didn't get hot on me. I figured it out because it quit charging on me, and I make it a habit of looking under the hood periodically. We were probably a good half hour without a belt and it never lost a step, or went over 160.

Water pump belt?:rolleyes:

gatorguy
11-10-2011, 09:59 AM
Water pump belt?:rolleyes:

Sure, thanks Peter, that will work. From now on it is my water pump belt. Now what about the alternator? I think it may feel left out.:D

Kyle
11-10-2011, 10:57 AM
If you roll the PCM engine then call it a water pump belt or alternator belt because there are two belts one for each.

If you roll the indmar than I'd call it "the belt" or " the serpentine belt". :) :) :)

gatorguy
11-10-2011, 11:11 AM
If you roll the PCM engine then call it a water pump belt or alternator belt because there are two belts one for each.

If you roll the indmar than I'd call it "the belt" or " the serpentine belt". :) :) :)

It is settled then. It will be "THE BELT" from here on out.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-10-2011, 04:18 PM
It is settled then. It will be "THE BELT" from here on out.

There you have it:D

east tx skier
11-10-2011, 07:44 PM
Don you problem is the fact that your stat came from skidim. Put an oem stat in and it will cool better and your dollar will be appreciated more from your MC dealer.

Once again I can't stand Skidim. They are so rude and inconsiderate. If they had the only part ever to fix my boat in the whole world.....I'd still would rather sell my boat and buy another boat to replace it than spend $0.01 with skidim. They treated me like whale and shark chit on the ocean floor. Horrible service and my $,$$$ was not green enough. Yes my bill was in the above more like 2k range and they still treated the guy buying a cotter key better than me. They suk.

Depends on the MC dealer. I had the same experience as you did with skidim with your local MC dealer. My money wasn't green enough to warrant a return phone call from TXMC, and it didn't matter that I called repeatedly trying to order parts. My in town dealership that didn't even sell MCs always took such good care of me, even when I didn't own their brand. I considered dealer support carefully when I was shopping for my next ski boat.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-10-2011, 08:43 PM
I feel fortunate to have had nothing but good experiences with my local MC dealer (Midwest Mastercraft) and SKIDIM. I guess there is an average working here somewhere.

Kyle
11-10-2011, 10:34 PM
Depends on the MC dealer. I had the same experience as you did with skidim with your local MC dealer. My money wasn't green enough to warrant a return phone call from TXMC, and it didn't matter that I called repeatedly trying to order parts. My in town dealership that didn't even sell MCs always took such good care of me, even when I didn't own their brand. I considered dealer support carefully when I was shopping for my next ski boat.

So that is how you turned NAUGHTY!!!!

Phntmski
11-10-2011, 10:46 PM
Now we wait....

east tx skier
11-10-2011, 11:06 PM
So that is how you turned NAUGHTY!!!!

Can't blame them for my defection. But it didn't help.

Dino Don
11-11-2011, 09:13 AM
So that is how you turned NAUGHTY!!!!

That's funny!

Dino Don
11-21-2011, 08:45 PM
Kyle, you monkeys get that engine together yet??

Kyle
11-22-2011, 10:06 AM
Kyle, you monkeys get that engine together yet??

Not yet. We didn't order anything until it was torn down completely and knew what the inside looked like.

Should have a cam this week.

Block is at a machine shop. Been there 1.5 weeks still 1 more week out.

Heads at another shop about a few days out.

Thanksgiving shuts most shops Wednesday at noon so next week sometime we should get it on the stand building again.

DooSPX
12-08-2011, 10:37 PM
And.... this thread is dead... :o

Dino Don
12-08-2011, 11:09 PM
they must have gotten a better offer?????:D

Phntmski
12-09-2011, 11:32 AM
Actually, been waiting on machine shop. About to get everything tho. :D

Kyle
12-12-2011, 07:14 PM
Ok here is an update. Got the engine back today and checked all rod and main cap torque numbers. Now waiting on gasket kit and little odds and ins to be brought over. Its ready for final assembly.

I looked at final balance sheet and everything balanced put to .020 of a gram. Pretty impressed to say the least considering factory was 22 grams off.

cwarndahl
12-12-2011, 07:22 PM
just want to say it look real nice!!

Kyle
12-13-2011, 03:29 AM
just want to say it look real nice!!

Thank you for your nice response. Really glad the other TTer's chimed in. Thanks guys.... "sarcastic button".....

Really????

Dino Don
12-13-2011, 07:43 AM
Ok here is an update. Got the engine back today and checked all rod and main cap torque numbers. Now waiting on gasket kit and little odds and ins to be brought over. Its ready for final assembly.

I looked at final balance sheet and everything balanced put to .020 of a gram. Pretty impressed to say the least considering factory was 22 grams off.

Factory numbers are always off--had an engine once that had one piston 80 grams heavier than any of the rest.
Looking good--question? Why didn't you put flat top pistons in it? Wouldn't give you any octane issues but little more HP.

Kyle
12-14-2011, 08:33 PM
Don, Scott wanted what the machine shop recommended.

Here are some updates

Kyle
12-14-2011, 08:34 PM
Good night engine

Dino Don
12-15-2011, 04:09 PM
Kyle, looks good--like that chrome water pump pulley! Hey, got a performer intake to go on mine this winter-send me a pic of the bracket you made of the throttle cable mount.
Later--

Phntmski
12-15-2011, 11:01 PM
coming together

:D

Hoosier Bob
12-15-2011, 11:09 PM
I do not deal with Skidim that often but in all fairness when I do I have a great experience. Last time I ordered a thermostat the person asked if I neede a gasket then said I see you ordered two gaskets on your last order. I checked my boat and there was the spare! I said I will only need the thermostat. They are cool and I have purchased a manifold, shifter, belts and a bunch of other misc stuff there. You had a bad experience and that sucks. I feel your pain but fortunately have not had the unpleasure.;)Don you problem is the fact that your stat came from skidim. Put an oem stat in and it will cool better and your dollar will be appreciated more from your MC dealer.

Once again I can't stand Skidim. They are so rude and inconsiderate. If they had the only part ever to fix my boat in the whole world.....I'd still would rather sell my boat and buy another boat to replace it than spend $0.01 with skidim. They treated me like whale and shark chit on the ocean floor. Horrible service and my $,$$$ was not green enough. Yes my bill was in the above more like 2k range and they still treated the guy buying a cotter key better than me. They suk.

Hoosier Bob
12-15-2011, 11:10 PM
Hey Kyle you going 1.6 full roller?:confused:

1redTA
12-16-2011, 09:54 AM
holy cow, what is the piston to deck clearance.

Kyle
12-16-2011, 01:29 PM
Kyle, looks good--like that chrome water pump pulley! Hey, got a performer intake to go on mine this winter-send me a pic of the bracket you made of the throttle cable mount.
Later--

I haven't built a bracket yet but when I do I'll sure show what I make.

Kyle
12-16-2011, 01:58 PM
To all of the critics out there.....

It is a flat tappet cam non roller set up.

1st off roller is not needed
2nd it's not worth $1000 extra for 10 to 15 more HP yes it's smoother but its expensive.
3rd we wanted to be reasonable with total out of pocket expeses. We don't have a money tree growing in the closet producing 1M per year of spending money.
4th it's not going to be in power boat magazine.
5th we don't want a 15-30k engine for a ski tractor.

The deck clearance is just fine.....


The pistons have valve relief in them. The machine shop said the flat tops cost more and for what we are doing in a boat would never know the difference......



This engine is designed for 325-350 HP for a ski tractor. Not a dyno pass to post up high HP and torque numbers. Now if that's what y'all are looking for I can post pics of cars and a boat that are pushing 1k HP at wheels and have dyno run videos in another thread.


I think that covers all of the questioning.

1redTA
12-16-2011, 03:45 PM
not critizing, just an observation, my machinist and I worked that into the LT1 I built. The closer to zero the deck height is, you run a lesser chance of detonation from a more turbulent quench. This was important to me running a dynamic compression ratio of 8.9 on pump gas, the static at 11.9.

TRBenj
12-20-2011, 08:16 AM
This engine is designed for 325-350 HP for a ski tractor.
Thats probably a bit optimistic with the smaller intake and baby cam. Id say you'll be just over the 300hp mark, probably around 4800 RPM.

Do you know what type of compression ratio you'll have with those pistons and heads? I assume somewhere around the 9.0-9.5:1 mark?

rjracin240
12-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Nice gloss to the paint on that engine, whatcha using???

Kyle
12-23-2011, 08:02 PM
Thats probably a bit optimistic with the smaller intake and baby cam. Id say you'll be just over the 300hp mark, probably around 4800 RPM.

Do you know what type of compression ratio you'll have with those pistons and heads? I assume somewhere around the 9.0-9.5:1 mark?

Obviously I'm a GD tard and don't know chit about engines much less boats. The baby cam and small heads turn 5245rpm on my boat and tops out at 47mph on gps with a 4 blade and a slot tranny. The engine in this thread is the exact same as my engine with a slightly bigger cam. My lack of smarts is now working on different prop set up and I will hit 50 mph with a naturally aspirated engine which is supositly impossible without a supercharger.



Im done on this site....

Y'all take care....

Good Bye Team Talk!!!

CantRepeat
12-23-2011, 08:31 PM
Obviously I'm a GD tard and don't know chit about engines much less boats. The baby cam and small heads turn 5245rpm on my boat and tops out at 47mph on gps with a 4 blade and a slot tranny. The engine in this thread is the exact same as my engine with a slightly bigger cam. My lack of smarts is now working on different prop set up and I will hit 50 mph with a naturally aspirated engine which is supositly impossible without a supercharger.



Im done on this site....

Y'all take care....

Good Bye Team Talk!!!

Na, Kyle, just fire up the 'rita machine and keep doing your thing man. :D Spring will be here soon enough and it wont matter.

Just keep building the motors brother.

You do know everyone here is either machinist or engineer!

Cloaked
12-23-2011, 08:49 PM
Obviously I'm a GD tard and don't know chit about engines much less boats. The baby cam and small heads turn 5245rpm on my boat and tops out at 47mph on gps with a 4 blade and a slot tranny. The engine in this thread is the exact same as my engine with a slightly bigger cam. My lack of smarts is now working on different prop set up and I will hit 50 mph with a naturally aspirated engine which is supositly impossible without a supercharger.



Im done on this site....

Y'all take care....

Good Bye Team Talk!!!LMAO..... If you come back and read this..... you're even a bigger tard for being so diaper rash sensitive... :D :D

No one is busting your chops for being a gear head, self-confessed tard... You'll be back..... :D

Oh and go make some saMiches for everyone too....

.

MIskier
12-24-2011, 09:35 AM
Obviously I'm a GD tard and don't know chit about engines much less boats. The baby cam and small heads turn 5245rpm on my boat and tops out at 47mph on gps with a 4 blade and a slot tranny. The engine in this thread is the exact same as my engine with a slightly bigger cam. My lack of smarts is now working on different prop set up and I will hit 50 mph with a naturally aspirated engine which is supositly impossible without a supercharger.



Im done on this site....

Y'all take care....

Good Bye Team Talk!!!

Whomever told you that 50mph is impossible without some serious mods is the tard! 60 would require some serious engine mods, but low 50's is certainly achievable with you engine setup and the correct prop.

scott023
12-24-2011, 09:49 AM
Obviously I'm a GD tard and don't know chit about engines much less boats. The baby cam and small heads turn 5245rpm on my boat and tops out at 47mph on gps with a 4 blade and a slot tranny. The engine in this thread is the exact same as my engine with a slightly bigger cam. My lack of smarts is now working on different prop set up and I will hit 50 mph with a naturally aspirated engine which is supositly impossible without a supercharger.



Im done on this site....

Y'all take care....

Good Bye Team Talk!!!

What the deuce Kyle?

First of all, I completely missed the updates in the thread, the motor looks great.

Secondly, I don't see where anyone was critisizing what you've done, more like we have a lot of know it alls on here that need to throw their two cents in. :D

I sure as heck hope you come back. No reason to stay away due to the goings on in this thread.

psychobilly
01-22-2012, 07:47 PM
Kyle, any pics of this dude? I liked the hell outta what you were doing here.

Phntmski
03-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Well boys, I know it's been a while since this thing started. It is, for the most part finished. Kyle did an excellent job and I'm super excited to ski this year. Would have already but life and weather has conspired against it. We took it out a few weeks ago to break it in and run the first crankcase of oil through, nice, very very nice!! Can't get over how fast and smooth it get's to speed. Gonna have to re-calibrate the SGPP. What used to be 34 is now 36+! We ran into a few hitches with machine shop and parts but I'm not gonna miss a minute of ski time! Also managed to get married in the duration.:D I'll get some pics up here in the next day or 2. I absolutely can't wait to ski!!!

1redTA
03-06-2012, 06:10 PM
I've been anxious to know how it turned out! can't wait to do mine now

learjet2230
03-06-2012, 06:52 PM
I've been anxious to know how it turned out! can't wait to do mine now

Right there with ya...Kyle is just up the road and im sittin at 1004.8 hrs on my block. So I'm foaming at the mouth. Boat still runs strong though!

Phntmski
03-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Ended up doing pretty much what I expected: Performer intake to go along with the ever dependable 4160 Holley, GT40P heads, rods and mains, bore .030, mildly stepped up the pistons (hypereutectic), engine balanced at the machine shop, mildly stepped up the cam from Cam Research, hi volume oil pump. All in the name of more torque to turn the slot tranny.

Here are a few pics. Plz excuse any repeat pics. Also, i don't normally drive that way, kinda shocked myself. Man, I'm giddy to get out!! This will have to get me more buoys!
:woohoo:

:banana:

thatsmrmastercraft
03-07-2012, 11:16 AM
That engine just looks like it has more hp.

Phntmski
03-07-2012, 11:30 AM
Don't know exactly how much hp. CR right at 10. I know this is a big span but I'm thinking somewhere between 315 - 340 hp. Gonna look into a KN air filter in the near future. That's a pretty sharp jump from an 1107 hr 240hp. What I really wanted was more torque, mid-range torque, and dependability,34.2 mph, 16.95 sec with good segment times no matter how short the set up or how heavy the skier. Would also like to barefoot @ 41/42 occasionally. A nice little bonus; should be more fuel efficient if I drive it right. :)

DemolitionMan
03-07-2012, 11:33 AM
It is looking real nice.

mayo93prostar
03-07-2012, 11:44 AM
those pics bring more wood than the wood wrap thread. Nice job.

Barefooter92
03-07-2012, 12:01 PM
those pics bring more wood than the wood wrap thread. Nice job.

Thats funny right there!:uglyhamme:uglyhamme ...and your right old power over fake wood anyday!

Lumbergh
03-07-2012, 12:24 PM
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr66/Lumbergh556/borat-sexytime.jpg

thatsmrmastercraft
03-07-2012, 01:00 PM
Lumbergh.......

Dino Don
03-07-2012, 04:20 PM
Here are a few pics. Plz excuse any repeat pics. Also, i don't normally drive that way, kinda shocked myself. Man, I'm giddy to get out!! This will have to get me more buoys!
:woohoo:

:banana:[/QUOTE]

Any air cleaner to box clearence issues?

Phntmski
03-07-2012, 04:41 PM
I'm between .5 and 1 inch low inside cowl. I can clear most of that by cutting out insulation. My first choice would be to get a KN filter customized to fit. Don't know if that's possible. Just tired of spending $ for a while.

DooSPX
03-07-2012, 06:41 PM
which cam from cam research did you end up going with?

Phntmski
03-07-2012, 07:57 PM
Just went with their stock 351w "ski cam", 460 lift, 212 @ 50 int, 220 @ 50 exh, 212 LS. Call me chicken but all I want is a dependable boat to give me an honest pull, forever... To me there's a point where I can get my hobbies confused, skiing vs boat maintenance. Helping Kyle what I could was fun but I'd much rather be at the lake, skiing behind and pulling with the 300+ hp we have than be fiddling with it trying to keep going smooth. I'm more a routine maintenance kind of guy. I sleep better that way. :)

TRBenj
03-08-2012, 10:37 AM
I think that 315hp estimate you have is going to be pretty darn close. That cam is on the small side for sure, but still a *little* warmer than stock. Going incrementally "wilder" on the cam (.500 lift range) certainly wouldnt have had any negative impact on reliability nor idle quality, as while this will REALLY wake up your motor as compared to the 240hp stocker, we're still talking pretty mild upgrades (<1hp/ci) in the world of engine modifications.

I would encourage anyone else planning a similar build to be just a little more aggressive, and not be fearful! There is only some mid-range and top end power to be gained with a slightly larger cam... and no down sides to speak of.

That being said, your work looks excellent and Im sure youre going to love the way it runs! Whens the water test?

Dino Don
03-08-2012, 11:56 AM
I'm between .5 and 1 inch low inside cowl. I can clear most of that by cutting out insulation. My first choice would be to get a KN filter customized to fit. Don't know if that's possible. Just tired of spending $ for a while.

That is the Performer 7181 RPM intake isn't it?

Phntmski
03-08-2012, 04:17 PM
It is not the RPM. RPM is even taller and I believe the torque curve on the RPM is mid to higher rpm. I'm much more interested in low to mid range torque. Maybe a more aggressive cam would be a nice compliment to the straight Performer. I probably could have pushed that envelope more and been fine it's just not something I'm interested in. In my mind everything is a compromise, be it fuel effeciency, longivity, dependability, wear, $, whatever... I just can't get over the suspicion on some level though, more power means more stress, more stress means more friction, more friction means more wear and tear, more heat, etc... And that's stress on everything in the drive train, steering, the hull, everything, not just the engine. All that said, it might be nice to see how far one could push before it becomes detrimental, just to see what these boats could do with a flat out barn burner.

We took it out a few weeks ago and it was perfect from the first crank. And like TRBenj said, it REALLY is a wake up compared to my tired 240hp. Perfect Pass is way off now. I gotta dial that in, which is kind of a joyful thing! :D I just can't wait to ski behind it and pull some shortline skiers. Was planning to do just that this week but got weathered out. Hopefully will have a chance next week.

Dino Don
03-08-2012, 05:36 PM
It is not the RPM. RPM is even taller and I believe the torque curve on the RPM is mid to higher rpm. I'm much more interested in low to mid range torque. Maybe a more aggressive cam would be a nice compliment to the straight Performer. I probably could have pushed that envelope more and been fine it's just not something I'm interested in. In my mind everything is a compromise, be it fuel effeciency, longivity, dependability, wear, $, whatever... I just can't get over the suspicion on some level though, more power means more stress, more stress means more friction, more friction means more wear and tear, more heat, etc... And that's stress on everything in the drive train, steering, the hull, everything, not just the engine. All that said, it might be nice to see how far one could push before it becomes detrimental, just to see what these boats could do with a flat out barn burner.

We took it out a few weeks ago and it was perfect from the first crank. And like TRBenj said, it REALLY is a wake up compared to my tired 240hp. .


Yeah mine has heads, cam etc--but stock intake but I got a Performer 2181 to put on it in the next weeks. Only got about 7 hrs on it before I parked it. Can't wait to get intake changed and back on the lake. Power was much better and speed was up over 45 but
RPM's were not up too much. Didn't push it--do that this year. My cam has a little less duration but more lift than yours but I like you didn't want a race car engine. Burns enough fuel as it is!!! :D

Phntmski
03-08-2012, 08:11 PM
Yeah mine has heads, cam etc--but stock intake but I got a Performer 2181 to put on it in the next weeks. Only got about 7 hrs on it before I parked it. Can't wait to get intake changed and back on the lake. Power was much better and speed was up over 45 but
RPM's were not up too much. Didn't push it--do that this year. My cam has a little less duration but more lift than yours but I like you didn't want a race car engine. Burns enough fuel as it is!!! :D

So far I've only nudged 44. That was all it had in it @ 4300rpm. I might try to tweak the timing a little to get a few more rpm. I've been told it would be ok even over 5000 but I don't see me wanting more than 4600, if that. I figure there's a reason MC gives that as max rpm. I'm sure a lot of that was already decided with the cam I got. I just want most efficient.

Do you have room for that RPM intake without any modifications?

Dino Don
03-08-2012, 09:31 PM
Mine is the 2181 which is the shorter one--not as tall as the RPM intake. If yours is the shorter then I shouldn't have any issues with height with the one I have. I've got to deal with that spacer like yours. I don't know about the cable brackett mods. I would like to see how ya'll did yours.

Phntmski
03-08-2012, 09:57 PM
OK, my bad. I was thinking that was the RPM version. I was very lucky. A friend of Kyle's was there when we were installing and he just welded a little flange onto the bracket I already had. Here's a couple pics:

Dino Don
03-08-2012, 10:21 PM
Thanks--I'll just see how much to add depending on how high mine will set. I see you had to add something to your fuel line?? There is a company in Ohio I think that can do one solid fuel line. They did one for me on a sb Chevy going from a quad-jet to holley-worked perfect.
Never liked to do it with rubber fuel line.
Just like doing old cars--once you start you just keep on till your finished!! :D

Phntmski
03-09-2012, 09:39 AM
Yes Don, I did have to add some hose to my fuel system. I cut the metal line back a few inches, just enough to give me about 3" straight line to put a couple clamps on. It's not what I would choose and I might replace it with a custom metal line eventually. Truth is, knowing the line from the tank to the pump is rubber eases my mind a bit though it's not exposed to engine heat. I'm not fuel injected. Let me know what you work out and how it goes.

TRBenj
03-09-2012, 10:19 AM
That rubber fuel line is a major safety hazard and a USCG no-no, just FYI. I would replace it with a custom bent hard line (you can get a 3/8" brake line with the proper fittings from the auto parts store for <$10... just need to custom bend it and double flare the end) or spring for the $60 flexible fuel line from SkiDIM (which is USCG approved). I would not run your current solution beyond a short water test.

I think your thinking is a bit flawed- contrary to popular belief, you will not get optimal performance by building an engine for low end torque. Unlike a car (or a truck that has to tow), these boats never have a need for "off-idle" power. Prop slip gives you an instant 2500+ RPM when going WOT out of the hole (reduction transmissions can get 3k or beyond), which is analogous to a high stall torque converter. No need to worry about making power below that point. I have never seen someone build a ski boat engine for mid-upper RPM power and do anything but improve their holeshot. You still need to match components together correctly, but Ive seen some wild cams (north of .550 lift on both stroker and non-stroker 351w's) and single plane intakes, pulling large props... and those boats still jump out of the hole like a supercharged jetski. Those are more extreme examples, but still...

In regards to the 4600 "max" RPM, that comes solely from the rpm at which your (stock) engine will make its best power. It has nothing to do with the strength or reliability of the bottom end. The 351w has a great reputation for reliability and a stock bottom end has no problems being spun to 6,000 RPM. You certainly wouldnt get the best performance out of the engine to do so, if your peak power occurs at the 4400 rpm level though... so that is what Indmar recommends you prop to. With the modifications youre describing, you'll likely see peak hp occurring in the 4800-5000rpm range, and I wouldnt hesitate for a second to turn it that fast. I run my stock bottom ended 351w north of 5200rpm for extended periods without issue... as that is where it makes its peak hp.

A well tuned (proper air/fuel ratio) modified motor should be every bit as reliable as the stocker. If youre not spinning it to oblivion and running either overly rich or overly lean, then it should last a very long time. By improving the top end components (intake, heads, cam) youre simply making it more efficient at inhaling and exhaling air. The internal combustion engine is simply a pump, after all.

Phntmski
03-09-2012, 12:34 PM
You're right about the fuel line and I expect to get to it at some point but am fine with it for now. I don't really disagree at all with most TRB says. I also don't back off with anything I said earlier. Engines wear out, it's a fact. Brakes on a car wear out, fact. Shoulders and knees and spines wear out, fact. If it moves or contains energy of any kind, it wears out, fact. This is how I choose to deal with it. The boat is a package, not just an engine. If I overload any one part, some other part is already at a deficit trying to deal with that energy. I do love that boat, probably too much. But I don't really care if it's the biggest, baddest, most powerful 351 ever built. I have a real mediocre stereo in it too, so what. What I want it to do is show up everyday to facilitate my real hobby, watersports, primarily slalom. That's where I want my torque, not at 6000rpm. And I want it to do that with a minimal amount of my time maintaining it, or even thinking about it. If I'm not perfect in every aspect of my thinking, oh well, never will be. I know I can't win a technical debate on much of this stuff, oh well to that too. What I can do is garner enough info to put a boat together to meet MY needs. What EVERYONE ELSE can do is have a boat to meet THEIR needs. As far as how high my RPM goes eventually. I'll look for where it's most effecient, like I already said. :D

1redTA
03-09-2012, 01:30 PM
you built a real nice engine with 75 horsepower more than you had.... It's going to be a blast!

Kyle
03-09-2012, 04:21 PM
Phntmski

When you have your boat certified this year by the USCG and it "FAILS" I will personally build a line for your 190, Mark's 205, Chaz's 25' baja single chevy 540ci 858 dyno hp, Elmer's 27' firehawk single chevy 572ci 984 dyno hp, and my 190 and make them all "Stainless Fuel Line". If that was the case then we would all fail USCG inspection. Your set up will be just fine.
















USCG always checks my rig and Mark's rig every year......... you will not fail inspection















NOT EVERYONE CAN KNOW EVERYTHING MY FRIEND

learjet2230
03-09-2012, 04:53 PM
That rubber fuel line is a major safety hazard and a USCG no-no, just FYI. I would replace it with a custom bent hard line (you can get a 3/8" brake line with the proper fittings from the auto parts store for <$10... just need to custom bend it and double flare the end) or spring for the $60 flexible fuel line from SkiDIM (which is USCG approved). I would not run your current solution beyond a short water test.

I think your thinking is a bit flawed- contrary to popular belief, you will not get optimal performance by building an engine for low end torque. Unlike a car (or a truck that has to tow), these boats never have a need for "off-idle" power. Prop slip gives you an instant 2500+ RPM when going WOT out of the hole (reduction transmissions can get 3k or beyond), which is analogous to a high stall torque converter. No need to worry about making power below that point. I have never seen someone build a ski boat engine for mid-upper RPM power and do anything but improve their holeshot. You still need to match components together correctly, but Ive seen some wild cams (north of .550 lift on both stroker and non-stroker 351w's) and single plane intakes, pulling large props... and those boats still jump out of the hole like a supercharged jetski. Those are more extreme examples, but still...

In regards to the 4600 "max" RPM, that comes solely from the rpm at which your (stock) engine will make its best power. It has nothing to do with the strength or reliability of the bottom end. The 351w has a great reputation for reliability and a stock bottom end has no problems being spun to 6,000 RPM. You certainly wouldnt get the best performance out of the engine to do so, if your peak power occurs at the 4400 rpm level though... so that is what Indmar recommends you prop to. With the modifications youre describing, you'll likely see peak hp occurring in the 4800-5000rpm range, and I wouldnt hesitate for a second to turn it that fast. I run my stock bottom ended 351w north of 5200rpm for extended periods without issue... as that is where it makes its peak hp.

A well tuned (proper air/fuel ratio) modified motor should be every bit as reliable as the stocker. If youre not spinning it to oblivion and running either overly rich or overly lean, then it should last a very long time. By improving the top end components (intake, heads, cam) youre simply making it more efficient at inhaling and exhaling air. The internal combustion engine is simply a pump, after all.

Im not really gonna go here again....but whats in red is FALSE

Kyle
03-09-2012, 05:36 PM
iIm not really gonna go here again....but whats in red is FALSE

Nik,


He knows everything.......... Telling him any different is a waste of breath and time.





If TRBenj (who knows EVERYTHING and thinks everyones thinking is a bit flawed) really knew about the fuel system then he would have checked on the USCG site before finding fault in someones work. Rubber fuel line "IS" allowed by USCG. Secondly he would have not made a comment about springing for $60 bucks for a fuel line from skidim. That line would not even reach the carburetor as the intake is 2" taller than the factory intake making that line 2" short. So that there my friend would be a complete waste of $60.

The ONE & ONLY way to change the fuel line would be to buy some Stainless Line and bend it your self and flare the ends.

The only way I will waste my time building a SS fuel line would be if Phantom fails inspection in 3 weeks (That will not happen......) or if the fuel line will give me an extra 100hp and (That will not happen either). Other than that my boat will have the rubber bastard on it and it will be just fine.




Some people need to go back to counting beans and making sure to line them up from biggest to smallest using a set of dial callipers or a micrometer. While doing it they must use a digital set and an analog set to double check.


Some people know how to beat everything down................

Hollywood
03-09-2012, 05:56 PM
Easy cowboy. Slipping a hose clamped [generic automotove] rubber fuel line over the cut original hard line is not approved on the pressure side of the fuel pump.

FEDERAL LAW

183.558 - Hoses and connections

(a) Each hose used between the fuel pump and the carburetor must be "USCG Type A1" hose.

FEDERAL LAW

183.560 - Hoses clamps: Installation

Each hose clamp on a hose from the fuel tank to the fuel inlet connection on the engine, a hose between the fuel pump and the carburetor, or a vent line must:

(c) Be beyond the bead, flare, or over the serrations of the mating spud, pipe, or hose fitting; and (see 183.560)

Any hose to be used with hose clamps and installed in:

(a) the fuel tank vent line;
(b) the fuel line between the fuel pump and the carburetor; or
(c) the fuel distribution line between the fuel tank and the fuel inlet connection at the engine (this connection is often at the fuel pump)

is required to be assembled with the hose clamp:

(a) at least one-quarter inch from the end of the hose, and
(b) beyond a bead or flare, or
(c) over serrations or annular grooves (183.530).

So, unless that is a USCG Type 1A that was used, and the end of the original line was flared you are not in compliance. Compliance is for your safety and those around you.

Kyle
03-09-2012, 06:35 PM
Easy cowboy. Slipping a hose clamped [generic automotove] rubber fuel line over the cut original hard line is not approved on the pressure side of the fuel pump.

FEDERAL LAW

183.558 - Hoses and connections

(a) Each hose used between the fuel pump and the carburetor must be "USCG Type A1" hose.

FEDERAL LAW

183.560 - Hoses clamps: Installation

Each hose clamp on a hose from the fuel tank to the fuel inlet connection on the engine, a hose between the fuel pump and the carburetor, or a vent line must:

(c) Be beyond the bead, flare, or over the serrations of the mating spud, pipe, or hose fitting; and (see 183.560)

Any hose to be used with hose clamps and installed in:

(a) the fuel tank vent line;
(b) the fuel line between the fuel pump and the carburetor; or
(c) the fuel distribution line between the fuel tank and the fuel inlet connection at the engine (this connection is often at the fuel pump)

is required to be assembled with the hose clamp:

(a) at least one-quarter inch from the end of the hose, and
(b) beyond a bead or flare, or
(c) over serrations or annular grooves (183.530).

So, unless that is a USCG Type 1A that was used, and the end of the original line was flared you are not in compliance. Compliance is for your safety and those around you.


Yes sir type 1A is how we roll... :)

learjet2230
03-09-2012, 06:50 PM
Easy cowboy. Slipping a hose clamped [generic automotove] rubber fuel line over the cut original hard line is not approved on the pressure side of the fuel pump.
Agree with that...it must be USCG rubber hose (technically) to be compliant
FEDERAL LAW

183.558 - Hoses and connections

(a) Each hose used between the fuel pump and the carburetor must be "USCG Type A1" hose.

FEDERAL LAW

183.560 - Hoses clamps: Installation

Each hose clamp on a hose from the fuel tank to the fuel inlet connection on the engine, a hose between the fuel pump and the carburetor, or a vent line must:

(c) Be beyond the bead, flare, or over the serrations of the mating spud, pipe, or hose fitting; and (see 183.560)

Any hose to be used with hose clamps and installed in:

(a) the fuel tank vent line;
(b) the fuel line between the fuel pump and the carburetor; or
(c) the fuel distribution line between the fuel tank and the fuel inlet connection at the engine (this connection is often at the fuel pump)

is required to be assembled with the hose clamp:

(a) at least one-quarter inch from the end of the hose, and
(b) beyond a bead or flare, or
(c) over serrations or annular grooves (183.530).

So, unless that is a USCG Type 1A that was used, and the end of the original line was flared you are not in compliance. Compliance is for your safety and those around you. Dont know where you pulled this from.
Hollywood...rubber hose, hose clamps, and barbed fittings are 1000% legal as long as installed correctly and correct materials regardless of what whats OEM. I would be willing to bet 1000% that a "brake line" obtained from NAPA or elsewhere is not compliant due to wrong material spec in the CFR's, not being seamless, and not being double flared. I dont know very many people that can properly double flare not to mention that have the tooling to do so. I've double flared hundreds of lines and dont have the tooling at home. We are not building the space shuttle here nor an airplane. I cant tell you how many pieces of crap boats I see, cars, not to mention some of the crap thats in airplanes that ya'll fly on. I think the guy did a bang up job on his motor, and all I see is a lot of..."why didnt ya do this"...."why did ya do it like that?" Lets see some pics of whats under the covers of some of the critics on this thread and others and I bet we can point out some bizarre crap. I (we) went thru this exact crap on the "351 intake"...its like people just wait to pounce on others. Cheers!

Hollywood
03-09-2012, 07:16 PM
It is conceivable that the original flare was chopped off to get the nut out of the way. The second part is saying there must be some sort of bead/barb (flare) put back in place at the end of the hard line.


It's just very common for people to cut the original lines and throw some fuel injection hose on there. They're putting their passengers at risk for a fire/explosion.

snork
03-09-2012, 07:18 PM
Hollywood...rubber hose, hose clamps, and barbed fittings are 1000% legal as long as installed correctly and correct materials regardless of what whats OEM. I would be willing to bet 1000% that a "brake line" obtained from NAPA or elsewhere is not compliant due to wrong material spec in the CFR's, not being seamless, and not being double flared. I dont know very many people that can properly double flare not to mention that have the tooling to do so. I've double flared hundreds of lines and dont have the tooling at home. We are not building the space shuttle here nor an airplane. I cant tell you how many pieces of crap boats I see, cars, not to mention some of the crap thats in airplanes that ya'll fly on. I think the guy did a bang up job on his motor, and all I see is a lot of..."why didnt ya do this"...."why did ya do it like that?" Lets see some pics of whats under the covers of some of the critics on this thread and others and I bet we can point out some bizarre crap. I (we) went thru this exact crap on the "351 intake"...its like people just wait to pounce on others. Cheers!

What... no flaring tool, thought it was mandatory in every shade tree mechanics box
Will y'all get on board, please, g-wizz

Hollywood
03-09-2012, 07:23 PM
So are you saying an engine [re]builder is a shade tree mechanic and shouldn't have a flaring tool? I believe you can easily rent them anyway.

Kyle
03-09-2012, 07:33 PM
It is conceivable that the original flare was chopped off to get the nut out of the way. The second part is saying there must be some sort of bead/barb (flare) put back in place at the end of the hard line.


It's just very common for people to cut the original lines and throw some fuel injection hose on there. They're putting their passengers at risk for a fire/explosion.

Wood I think you are missing the point.

Rubber hose was used. Yes some people use cheaper "unsafe" hose but not me. The barbs used were not cheap ones out of pepboys.

The point here is if you were a pilot I sure would not tell you how to fly. I used to be a tech and don't need telling me the right way to fix something. Another thing is this guy bashes everyone's work.

learjet2230
03-09-2012, 07:52 PM
time to have a little fun. Ive been drinking (magine that) and my mind is starting to play a few tricks on me! Even though you did a really great job on that engine...fact is I could never ride in that boat because of the safety violations that I see in just one of your pics. Please see below and get them corrected or I will not ride in your boat and drink beer with you and scantily clad women. I will insist that if I come that we paddle and each wear a full survival suit that has a suitable SARSAT beacon attached to it so NORAD could combine efforts with the USCG in finding us. Not only is it safer that way but your loud exhaust and fumes wont harm the enviroment or peoples ears (another great thread by the way), and you will save fossil fuels, money, and build some serious deltoid strength to where those scantily clad women will definately take notice. If I were you I would have put a solar powered golf cart motor in that thing and hung six acres of solar panels on a new tower. Who knows, you might have started a new trend of being the first tree hugger with an electric prostar190. Imagine the nappy chicks that would flock to you. You could call it the ProVolt 1900, or the ProVolt 190, or the Granola PS190...and there wouldn't be a fuel line to ***** about. But I'm sure you would find a non-USCG battery cap or non-compliant cupholder or something to swing your dick about!

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
03-09-2012, 08:45 PM
Ya'll did a great job getting that old tug engine back in shape. Only thing I can add to this thread is to add a little clear coat to your new intake manifold so it doesn't start corrode from moisture.

Phntmski
03-09-2012, 09:18 PM
:uglyhamme:

This has gotten a little out of hand. The boat is safe, always has been, always will be. We did work hard on it, Kyle primarily, and it's a fine engine. Huge improvement over what I've been tooling around in. I'm thrilled! Can't wait to get summer revved up!! Anyone wants to come to Ft W and ski sometime maybe we can work something out.

:eek3::eek3:

As for the tape and garden hose on the throttle and shifter cable, that will be replaced. Though this time I might use something other than an old garden hose. :eek::eek: I just want to protect the cables from friction. I'm sure a better boat owner would find a sure fire way to suspend them so they don't rub against anything but I ain't he. Actually that stuff is from the old setup. I should've cleaned it off during some of the down time waiting on parts or machine shop, how embarrassing.:o:o:o

I'll look into coating the intake. :steering:

Just trying to navigate.

Phntmski
03-09-2012, 10:30 PM
time to have a little fun. Ive been drinking (magine that) and my mind is starting to play a few tricks on me! Even though you did a really great job on that engine...fact is I could never ride in that boat because of the safety violations that I see in just one of your pics. Please see below and get them corrected or I will not ride in your boat and drink beer with you and scantily clad women. I will insist that if I come that we paddle and each wear a full survival suit that has a suitable SARSAT beacon attached to it so NORAD could combine efforts with the USCG in finding us. Not only is it safer that way but your loud exhaust and fumes wont harm the enviroment or peoples ears (another great thread by the way), and you will save fossil fuels, money, and build some serious deltoid strength to where those scantily clad women will definately take notice. If I were you I would have put a solar powered golf cart motor in that thing and hung six acres of solar panels on a new tower. Who knows, you might have started a new trend of being the first tree hugger with an electric prostar190. Imagine the nappy chicks that would flock to you. You could call it the ProVolt 1900, or the ProVolt 190, or the Granola PS190...and there wouldn't be a fuel line to ***** about. But I'm sure you would find a non-USCG battery cap or non-compliant cupholder or something to swing your dick about!


:purplaugh:purplaugh
"I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there".

boater8987
03-09-2012, 10:47 PM
Looks good. Nice clean set up. You guys did a great job. Everything looks functional and safe to me. Everybody puts there own twist on things. Most owners wished their motors looked that good and the other ones don't even think about motors. ;)

Kyle
03-09-2012, 11:09 PM
But I'm sure you would find a non-USCG battery cap or non-compliant cupholder or something to swing your dick about!

FML everything on my boat is non compliant except for the cup holders. Where can I get the non-compliment kind....... :D

I even went so far as to get the "automotive" flame arrestor wing nut too......

1redTA
03-10-2012, 07:01 AM
HAHAHA marine wing nuts

learjet2230
03-10-2012, 07:57 AM
:uglyhamme:

This has gotten a little out of hand. The boat is safe, always has been, always will be. We did work hard on it, Kyle primarily, and it's a fine engine. Huge improvement over what I've been tooling around in. I'm thrilled! Can't wait to get summer revved up!! Anyone wants to come to Ft W and ski sometime maybe we can work something out.

:eek3::eek3:

As for the tape and garden hose on the throttle and shifter cable, that will be replaced. Though this time I might use something other than an old garden hose. :eek::eek: I just want to protect the cables from friction. I'm sure a better boat owner would find a sure fire way to suspend them so they don't rub against anything but I ain't he. Actually that stuff is from the old setup. I should've cleaned it off during some of the down time waiting on parts or machine shop, how embarrassing.:o:o:o

I'll look into coating the intake. :steering:

Just trying to navigate.

You do know that this was sarcastic and not directed at you an Kyle...cheers;)

learjet2230
03-10-2012, 08:00 AM
FML everything on my boat is non compliant except for the cup holders. Where can I get the non-compliment kind....... :D

I even went so far as to get the "automotive" flame arrestor wing nut too......

Lol...i dont know..I have been looking. But make sure yours have an annode if they are aluminum. Otherwise they could corrode thru on the bottom, spilling your beer which could then could get on ...lets say a fuel line and corrode it causing a catastrophe...who woulda thunk that!
ps check your PM

CantRepeat
03-10-2012, 08:33 AM
Seems this thread just went all pissy pants. Time to break out a ruler and start the pecker measuring contest.

Phntmski
03-10-2012, 10:41 AM
Seems this thread just went all pissy pants. Time to break out a ruler and start the pecker measuring contest.

I concur with that observation.;)



You do know that this was sarcastic and not directed at you an Kyle...cheers;)

I know and I thought it was hilarious!:D

1redTA
03-10-2012, 06:46 PM
Seems this thread just went all pissy pants. Time to break out a ruler and start the pecker measuring contest.

that better be a yard stick

learjet2230
03-10-2012, 06:52 PM
that better be a yard stick

LOL!.........

Kyle
03-10-2012, 08:22 PM
that better be a yard stick

LOL!.........

"F" That lets go extreme and roll with a 2"x4".

I've got the ruler once and a yard stick once and I've healed just fine. Gotta break out a big stick now. I can't stand that guy. He needs to STFU and hang out on the "CC Fan" website. He is arrogant and treats people on this site like chit. Eventually there will be enough people who get tired of his chit. He should be BANNED!!!!!!

TRBenj
03-12-2012, 11:22 AM
He should be BANNED!!!!!!
LOL.

Kyle, is it not a USCG requirement that the fitting attached to the carb be double flared on the carb side, and barbed on the hose side? If I am not mistaken, simply cutting the original hard fuel line and clamping to that would not meet code. I thought that was what was done here- if I assumed incorrectly, then I apologize. Yes, flexible fuel line is permitted (certain types of double walled rubber included). Too many times Ive seen unsafe fuel lines used- and I'll echo HW's safety comments!

In regards to the hard fuel line, the 3/8" brake line meets USCG regs if it is double flared on both ends, as I mentioned. You can rent a double flare tool from most auto parts stores, lowly Autozones included.

The $60 line from SkiDIM will in fact reach, as it is longer than the stock version, and flexible. The $15 hard line will not reach with the taller intake manifold, that is probably the one you are thinking of. The $60 line is pricey, but not a bad piece.

gatorguy
03-12-2012, 01:48 PM
All I have to say is that I'm glad to see Kyle is back, or I've just been in the wrong threads.

Kyle
03-12-2012, 03:55 PM
If yall look at the circle of the AIRCRAFT fitting, then look just past that. Some of you old farts may need glasses or to zoom in real good to see it, but there is a BLUE anodized fitting that attaches to the carb. That fitting was not some BS fitting.....It was $40 and it is the proper 2 piece barbed fitting that is flared on both pieces. That is what the fuel hose connects to. Although I did not get out my dial calipers to insure that the clamp is in tolerance of being 1/8" or 1/4" from the carb, the hose is on properly and does not leak and the boat runs fine. There is a reason engineers design and technicians fix. That being said someone who is by far smart enough to create something sould be plenty capeable of noticing the blue proper fitting used.

1redTA
03-12-2012, 09:27 PM
I like it! if it was mine the electricians tape and hose clamps too would be exchanged for some vise grips in true redneck style :-)

Hollywood
03-13-2012, 08:40 PM
So is end of the old hard line the hose is clamped to flared? I just want to make sure everyone realizes everything you did, the untrained eye would certainy miss some of the details here.

learjet2230
03-13-2012, 09:24 PM
:popcorn:......

Phntmski
04-08-2012, 02:07 PM
Don you problem is the fact that your stat came from skidim. Put an oem stat in and it will cool better and your dollar will be appreciated more from your MC dealer.

Once again I can't stand Skidim. They are so rude and inconsiderate. If they had the only part ever to fix my boat in the whole world.....I'd still would rather sell my boat and buy another boat to replace it than spend $0.01 with skidim. They treated me like whale and shark chit on the ocean floor. Horrible service and my $,$$$ was not green enough. Yes my bill was in the above more like 2k range and they still treated the guy buying a cotter key better than me. They suk.

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:

like i said earlier, skidim has a true customer come to light!! :D:D















:eek3::eek3:

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-08-2012, 03:27 PM
Oh no kyle is in skidim shirt...:uglyhamme

Phntmski
07-30-2012, 12:16 PM
Don't know if anyone will see this but just a short follow-thru-update on the engine rebuild. After 58 trouble free hours, it kicks butt!! :dance: Between the much more powerful engine and a new 4 blade CNC prop it's a brand new boat! There is virtually zero vibration, anytime, from hole shot to WOT. Didn't hurt that I put a new steering cable and (probably unnecessary) helm in it a couple years ago. :steering: I pull Kyle at his shortlines pretty regular and it's rock solid. I pull lots of skiers of a wide variety of weight and ability, generally -15 - -28, and it's right on. Not only near perfect overall times but my segment times are near perfect as well. Actually they regularly are perfect, even with a very short setup. :banana: Put a new cable on the Perfect Pass and it dialed right in.

Engine kicks off with just a bump from the starter, every time. Idles smooooth. :cool: I run regular but do use marine Stabil, all the time. That's my response to ethanol. Don't know it's the best out there but I've used it a few years without any fuel related problems and it's fairly economical. Speaking of that the fuel line is a non-issue. :firejump:

Can't think of a lot more to add other than I highly recommend it. My only regret is I didn't do it a few years earlier. The old 240hp in my 91 actually ran fine with 1107 hrs. My only problem was I've been around new boats at tournaments. I just accepted my boat as my boat, old. Then I drove and skied Kyle's 93. It was a no-brainer after that.

Thanks Kyle! :wavey:

Kyle's not the only person who's hepled me with my boat. My friend Bruce helped me secure a pylon that was working more and more loose as well as advise on other issues. Boaters are good people!! :smile:

Enough with the smiley things.

1redTA
07-31-2012, 11:44 AM
Good for you!M