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bcampbe7
08-27-2004, 04:45 PM
Can anyone provide easy to follow instructions for servicing the starter on a '96 PS190? I read that the bendix needs to be greased. What the he|| is the bendix?

I'm lost... :confused:

Thrall
08-27-2004, 05:05 PM
You'll see what the bendix is when you take the starter out. It's the only visible moving part.
Watcha do is; Disconnect battery. Unhook wires from starter motor, only 3 or so. Remove 2 bolts that hold the starter to the engine block, they are on the bottom and go up into the block. When you take these out the starter will just come out. (Make sure if there are any shims on the starter to put them back in) You'll see the gear that pops out and connects w/ the flexplate teeth, that's the bendix. Just grease the the Shaft that this rides on and re-install.

JimN
08-29-2004, 11:21 AM
To get to the shaft that the gear rides up on, you need to turn the gear. One way, it won't turn easily and the other, it turns and rides up the shaft toward the nose of the housing. When it moves toward the end, put some light grease around the shaft and move the gear back and forth a few times to coat it. You don't need a lot, but if you put more on than needed, it just slings it off inside the area next to the flywheel.

bcampbe7
08-29-2004, 02:13 PM
I got the starter off, greased the Bendix, and put it back on. When I tried to test it the starter just free spins. It is not engaging. I took the starter back out and took it to Auto Zone. They bench tested it and it worked like a charm. Apparently I didn't hook it up correctly. Can anyone tell me where the wires should connect. This is how I have it connected. Small wire coming from the ignition connected to the small bolt/nut on the solenoid. Battery and another wire coming from ignition area connected to larger copper colored bolt/nut. Is this correct? Why would it work fine when tested and not now in the boat. There was nothing wrong with it before I started messing with it. My Dad kept saying that this was a good learning experience. I don't like these types of learning experiences! :mad:
Any help would be greatly appreciated. If not I think Tuesday or Wednesday I will take it to the dealer to have them fix it. A new starter is $330, ouch! I hope it won't require a new starter since this one checks-out fine.

Thanks,

JimN
08-29-2004, 04:13 PM
You should have one large battery terminal on the solenoid and the one that gets the crank lead. If there are 2 small terminals, try the other one, usually marked with an "S". you also may have another solenoid near the circuit breaker. If either has bad contacts, the starter won't get enough current. If you want to test your starter on the boat, get your jumper cables and connect one clamp to both large terminals on the starter. It should crank. It will also spark, so watch out for your eyes and any flammable liquids. If it just free spins, disconnect the battery and remove it again so you can verify that the gear moves freely on the shaft. If it does, the Bendix should be able to spin fast enough when you turn the key to get the gear to ride up the shaft and engage the flywheel ring gear. If it still doesn't work for you, you can always go back to Auto Zone and have them show you which wire goes where.

You can always remove it and bench test it like the parts store did. Get your jumper cables and connect the battery(-), starter(-), battery(+), in that order. Next, attach a wire from the copper terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid. Now you can get a good grip on the starter and connect the positive cable to the terminal that attaches to the battery + cable on the boat. It should crank and move the Bendix. If not(and it has the second terminal) attach that to the copper post before you attach the jumper.

$330? Get yours rebuilt by a good alternator/starter shop in your area. Make sure they know that it needs to be rebuilt according to Coast Guard spec, but I usually pay around $65-$125 for most rebuilds.

Leroy
08-29-2004, 04:21 PM
I hate it when I do this! Happens to all of us. Reminds me of a car talk story, maybe the answer is in this. Sorry it's so long.

Maritime Puzzler, from Car Talk.

RAY: Hi, we're back. You're listening to Car Talk with us, Click and Clack, the Tappett Brothers, and we're here to talk about cars, car repair, and, duh, the answer to last week's Puzzler.

TOM: What was the Puzzler?

RAY: Well, this came across my desk recently. I think 1994. And I don't know if it's true or not, but as I mentioned last week, it's never stopped me in the past. And this came from someone named Dale via our Website, which is the Car Talk section of cars.com. And I can only assume that Dale is a bedouin. Dale says, I used to work at a marina where we stored and launched boats with a crane. We had a repair shop with about five mechanics, a parts department, you know, all that stuff, a new and used boat sales department, and as such, I'm sure they had a lot of auto mechanics hanging around the place. One day, a customer with an inboard powered boat used it for water skiing and left it at the dock overnight. And he came in to use it the next morning, and the battery was dead because he'd left the lights on. So, the head mechanic pulls out the battery and takes it to the shop for a quick charge. You don't bring the mountain to Mohammed in this case. You bring the battery in.

TOM: Yeah.

RAY: A while later, they take the battery back to the boat. They put it in and try to start it. The starter spins up. You know, you can hear the motor turn, but it doesn't engage the fly wheel.

TOM: Mmmm.

RAY: OK? It started fine several times yesterday, the owner of the boat says. So, they pull the starter off, thinking it's no good, and they what? Bring the starter inside, and they put it on the bench, and they test it. And every time they hit it with the 12 volts, it works perfectly. The little gear jumps out, and it would engage the --

TOM: Spins like crazy.

RAY: Spins like crazy. So, they put it back in the boat, and again, it spins up, but doesn't engage the fly wheel.

TOM: Hm.

RAY: A while later, they figured out what was wrong, and they fixed it, and there was nothing wrong with the engine, there was nothing wrong with the starter, and I guess I lied a little bit when I said there was nothing wrong with the --

TOM: I think so?

RAY: You think that was a lie?

TOM: Well, you could call it a mistake.

RAY: I could, huh?

TOM: You could. And you could even explain away, you could --

RAY: How would I do that?

TOM: No, you could prove that there really was nothing wrong with the battery.

RAY: The battery wasn't faulty.

TOM: The battery wasn't faulty.

RAY: OK. So, there was nothing wrong with the engine. The starter motor was OK. And the battery was not faulty.

TOM: No. The battery was the problem, but there was nothing wrong with it.

RAY: And the question was, what was the problem? I've never done this before, but I understand it's possible, when hooking up the battery charger, if you remember, they took the battery from the boat and brought it into the shop. And they hooked up the charger to the battery, which was completely stone dead, obviously, because he had left the lights on overnight. And when they hooked it up, instead of hooking the red connector to positive and the black connector to negative, they reversed them.

TOM: Yeah.

RAY: And evidently, the battery will take the charge in reverse. And when they installed it in the boat and hooked the wires up correctly, it made the starter turn backwards. And when that happens, the little gear won't pop out and engage the fly wheel. Do we have a winner this week?

TOM: The winner is Richard Nielsen from St. Paul, Minnesota and --

bcampbe7
08-30-2004, 10:09 AM
I bought a new starter at O'Reilly's. From what I can tell, it is identical. Installed it and it works like a charm. Will this starter be OK to use? It was $160 vs. the $330 from the dealer!

H20skeefreek
08-30-2004, 10:35 AM
I bought a new starter at O'Reilly's. From what I can tell, it is identical. Installed it and it works like a charm. Will this starter be OK to use? It was $160 vs. the $330 from the dealer!

is it a marine starter? if not then no, it's not ok to use, if yes then YES its ok to use. Unless you like to be blown up.

bcampbe7
08-30-2004, 11:04 AM
No, not particularly fond of getting blown-up. What is the difference? Will there be any external differences?

bcampbe7
08-30-2004, 11:18 AM
Nevermind... I called O'Reilly's and they do not actually sell marine starters. I am going to remove this starter and try to find a new one. Anyone have a source, besides the dealer, for starters? Also a part number for a 96 PS190 starter would be great. Mine is painted, and I cannot tell what the part number should be.

OhioProstar
08-30-2004, 11:21 AM
Marine starters and alternators have extra screening to keep arching from the electric engines/magnetic fields from exploding fuel vapors. Blowers keep this risk down. Plus the starter needs the correct direction or it can throw flames out of the carb when you attempt to start.

bcampbe7
08-30-2004, 11:34 AM
Thanks for all the replies.
I am learning as I go...

I found a source in Bristol, TN http://www.dbelectrical.com

Is it obvious that this is my first boat??? :uglyhamme
Lesson learned!

goballgo
09-29-2004, 05:11 AM
I woul also like to know the difference. My 88 190 did the exact same thing. Everything tested fine but I went and bought a new starter also. It worked fine. The starter I bought was an automotive one. Is there a difference? A starter is not a sealed unit so can it be (I believe the word is entrinsic?? like sparkproof radios and such?) The automotive starter worked fine on my boat; I always use the blower before starting. Am I a boater waiting for an explosion because someone else put an automotive starter on and replced it with the same?

jimmer2880
09-29-2004, 07:27 AM
in a word... yes.

From what I understand - marine starters are basically automotive starters, sealed up to keep the sparks to themselves.

Marine Starters, Alternators & Carbs... get them re-built instead of replacing with automotive counterparts.

just my .02 worth.

T-Rager
09-29-2004, 10:10 AM
Generally, when the starter spins but the engine does not crank, it is a faulty starter drive (Bendix) or missing teeth on the flywheel (less likely). Replacing the starter drive is not a complicated procedure.