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CantRepeat
10-23-2011, 11:38 AM
I did most of my winterizing yesterday and got the 5 gallon water bucket demo done.

5 gallon bucket demo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgkFekf18uI)

It shows how fast your boat takes in water, both at idle and at 1500 RPMs.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-23-2011, 12:42 PM
I did most of my winterizing yesterday and got the 5 gallon water bucket demo done.

5 gallon bucket demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd78rNLR7Zo)

It shows how fast your boat takes in water, both at idle and at 1500 RPMs.

Nice job Tim.

CantRepeat
10-23-2011, 03:36 PM
Nice job Tim.

Thanks Peter. Hopefully it will open up some eyes. :D

mikeg205
10-23-2011, 04:03 PM
looks like your hose kept up at idle in the bucket...and even when you goosed up the throttle...I was watching the waterline at the first ridge when you turn then valve on hose...great video ...thanks...scary how fast you can lose cooling water if you suck up a bag...

anyone ever install a water flow sensor? I had one on my pool heater...turned off the heater if water flow decreased too much....

CantRepeat
10-23-2011, 04:40 PM
At idle the water pressure at my house can keep up with the intake. At anything above idle it can not. The idea is that you have a reservoir of water for the motor to use. This way you can run a higher RPM without running the impeller dry.

If you have less then ideal water pressure and you are using a fake-o-lake or just pushing the water hose into the water intake you could run dry pretty fast.

mikeg205
10-23-2011, 05:07 PM
What do you think of this product...

https://www.aqualarm.net/comerus/store/comersus_listItems.asp

I asked what the inside diameter of the unit was as well if there was "any" reduction in water flow...

after too talls overheating related issues...this product seems like an inexpensive precautionary measure...

thatsmrmastercraft
10-23-2011, 09:34 PM
What do you think of this product...

https://www.aqualarm.net/comerus/store/comersus_listItems.asp

I asked what the inside diameter of the unit was as well if there was "any" reduction in water flow...

after too talls overheating related issues...this product seems like an inexpensive precautionary measure...

For those of us in the OCDMC club, this is very interesting. this would be easy enough to wire and set with an indicator light and a warning alarm. This is the link to the spec sheet of the unit I was looking at. 10231 Cooling Water Flow Detector 2-in FPT

http://aqualarm.net/datasheets/one_and_one-half_and_two_inch_cooling_water_flow_detector.pdf

nauti-dreamer
10-23-2011, 10:31 PM
Has anyone heard of such problems causing reduced/obstructed flow rate for cooling water? If it was more prevalant why would an alarm such as this not be standard equipment like a blower?

oldairboater
10-23-2011, 10:53 PM
My hose can't keep up at idle. It just delays the inevitable. Add water from another bucket or shut down the engine. I will never use fake lake or plug in your water hose stuff ever.

vision
10-23-2011, 10:55 PM
Anyone know the GPM rate for the impeller/pump at idle and 5500 rpm for Indmar or Ilmor engines?

thatsmrmastercraft
10-23-2011, 11:37 PM
Anyone know the GPM rate for the impeller/pump at idle and 5500 rpm for Indmar or Ilmor engines?

That would b an interesting number. Could put a lot of speculation to rest.

mikeg205
10-23-2011, 11:42 PM
For those of us in the OCDMC club, this is very interesting. this would be easy enough to wire and set with an indicator light and a warning alarm. This is the link to the spec sheet of the unit I was looking at. 10231 Cooling Water Flow Detector 2-in FPT

http://aqualarm.net/datasheets/one_and_one-half_and_two_inch_cooling_water_flow_detector.pdf

seems like the one I listed has a better flow rate up to 28 GPM...I wonder if these things are really worth it.

I would love to install as one more safety measure....I am a proud card carrying OCDMC'r.

170 days to research and decide.....

thatsmrmastercraft
10-24-2011, 01:22 AM
seems like the one I listed has a better flow rate up to 28 GPM...I wonder if these things are really worth it.

I would love to install as one more safety measure....I am a proud card carrying OCDMC'r.

170 days to research and decide.....

Which one were you looking at? Your link goes to an entire page.

MattsCraft
10-24-2011, 11:04 AM
Does not seem to be popular here on TT, but I installed the Perko Flush Pro, now 4th season and it works great. Ran the engine for 20 minutes for her oil change at 1500 RPM's and the water temp using the house water supply, never went much above 160 degrees! Pulled the Impeller with 60 hours on it and it looks brand new.

I understand the bucket problem and the system pulling more water than the hose can provide, however this proves that it is getting enough water to keep the engine at proper operating temp. I also don't like the Fake-A-Lake attached to the scupper, these leak pretty bad.

Lovin the Perko - Cheers...

CantRepeat
10-24-2011, 11:15 AM
Does not seem to be popular here on TT, but I installed the Perko Flush Pro, now 4th season and it works great. Ran the engine for 20 minutes for her oil change at 1500 RPM's and the water temp using the house water supply, never went much above 160 degrees! Pulled the Impeller with 60 hours on it and it looks brand new.

I understand the bucket problem and the system pulling more water than the hose can provide, however this proves that it is getting enough water to keep the engine at proper operating temp. I also don't like the Fake-A-Lake attached to the scupper, these leak pretty bad.

Lovin the Perko - Cheers...

Do put anti freeze in your boat? If so, how do you get it in there with the Perko?

beef
10-24-2011, 11:42 AM
Does not seem to be popular here on TT, but I installed the Perko Flush Pro, now 4th season and it works great. Ran the engine for 20 minutes for her oil change at 1500 RPM's and the water temp using the house water supply, never went much above 160 degrees! Pulled the Impeller with 60 hours on it and it looks brand new.

I understand the bucket problem and the system pulling more water than the hose can provide, however this proves that it is getting enough water to keep the engine at proper operating temp. I also don't like the Fake-A-Lake attached to the scupper, these leak pretty bad.

Lovin the Perko - Cheers...

+1 here. Been using the Flush Pro to flush and winterize my 205 for 14 years and have never had a problem as a result. My assumption is that if the hose can't keep up, it's not running "dry" - it's still running with as much water as the hose will supply. It seems to be enough to keep the impeller lubricated and to provide sufficient cooling at lower rpm's.

MattsCraft
10-24-2011, 12:23 PM
Do put anti freeze in your boat? If so, how do you get it in there with the Perko?

Same water connection, there is a little black plug that presses in on the spring to allow the antifreeze to flow. I have a 5 gallon winterizing jug I purchased for my I/O, works great, has a water shut off valve and clear hose. Here is one from overtons, this is a little nicer than the one I have, mine is all plastic fittings. I use this to put antifreeze into the ballast tanks too.

FYI - I purchase -200 green mixed 1 to 1 with warm water. 6 gallons total. -68 burst and -28 freeze protection mixed. 3 gallons for ballast, 2 gallons mixed in each tank. 2.5 gallons for engine, 5 gallon mix and 1/2 gallon for heater.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=81105&pdesc=Yourself_Boat_Winterizer&str=winterization&merchID=4005

mikeg205
10-24-2011, 10:06 PM
don't forget the thermostat...my OCD on MC got the best of me...soooo I decided to pull and will change the thermostat...I think the left is the original from 1995...I am second owner of the PS 205 second season...I think the left one should be retired...its for sale if anyone wants it...8p

thatsmrmastercraft
10-24-2011, 10:56 PM
don't forget the thermostat...my OCD on MC got the best of me...soooo I decided to pull and will change the thermostat...I think the left is the original from 1995...I am second owner of the PS 205 second season...I think the left one should be retired...its for sale if anyone wants it...8p

As a test of your level of OCD, did you performance test the new stat in a pot of water prior to installation?

Somehow I skipped that step when I replaced the stat on my boat and the darn thing hardly opened at all!

CantRepeat
10-24-2011, 10:59 PM
As a test of your level of OCD, did you performance test the new stat in a pot of water prior to installation?

Somehow I skipped that step when I replaced the stat on my boat and the darn thing hardly opened at all!

Wow Peter, I've never done that. Do you need one of those high temp candy thermometers for that test?

thatsmrmastercraft
10-24-2011, 11:05 PM
Wow Peter, I've never done that. Do you need one of those high temp candy thermometers for that test?

I have a digital pyrometer, but all you need is a thermometer that goes to whatever your stat is rated for. I hope your stat opens before you hit 350 degrees.:D

mikeg205
10-24-2011, 11:35 PM
As a test of your level of OCD, did you performance test the new stat in a pot of water prior to installation?

Somehow I skipped that step when I replaced the stat on my boat and the darn thing hardly opened at all!

guilty....guilty...guilty...i have a digital thermometer...the funny part was when my wife uttered...uh...mike...what is that thing hanging in the pot on the stove? When I answered...she just laughed...and asked me how I will survive of the off season...:uglyhamme

thatsmrmastercraft
10-24-2011, 11:38 PM
guilty....guilty...guilty...i have a digital thermometer...the funny part was when my wife uttered...uh...mike...what is that thing hanging in the pot on the stove? When I answered...she just laughed...and asked me how I will survive of the off season...:uglyhamme

Fantastic:D:D:D

mikeg205
10-24-2011, 11:48 PM
Which one were you looking at? Your link goes to an entire page.

the one that's item 20064... need 2 1" to 1.25 inch nipples...

thatsmrmastercraft
10-24-2011, 11:58 PM
the one that's item 20064... need 2 1" to 1.25 inch nipples...

Very interesting.

TRBenj
10-25-2011, 12:54 PM
+1 here. Been using the Flush Pro to flush and winterize my 205 for 14 years and have never had a problem as a result. My assumption is that if the hose can't keep up, it's not running "dry" - it's still running with as much water as the hose will supply. It seems to be enough to keep the impeller lubricated and to provide sufficient cooling at lower rpm's.
Your logic is solid. Im not a fan of the Flush Pro as it seems cheaply built and overly complicated... and a $15 tee works great (no need to spend $50), but otherwise agree. So long as the pump can replace any shortage of water being supplied by the hose with something else (air) then you wont collapse a hose. So long as youre lubricating the impeller and cooling the motor, you do NOT need to provide the engine nor the RWP with 100% of the water it is capable of pulling. After all, theres no load on the engine when running it out of water.

It always baffles me why so many people like to overly complicate things!

CantRepeat
10-25-2011, 01:06 PM
Your logic is solid. Im not a fan of the Flush Pro as it seems cheaply built and overly complicated... and a $15 tee works great (no need to spend $50), but otherwise agree. So long as the pump can replace any shortage of water being supplied by the hose with something else (air) then you wont collapse a hose. So long as youre lubricating the impeller and cooling the motor, you do NOT need to provide the engine nor the RWP with 100% of the water it is capable of pulling. After all, theres no load on the engine when running it out of water.

It always baffles me why so many people like to overly complicate things!

Really? I don't think it's all that complicated.

The purpose wasn't to prove or disprove the safety of any method but it sure seems like it to some. It was just information being put out there.

wrobins1
10-25-2011, 01:54 PM
I do use the flush pro but because of the horrible water pressure at my house. I always let it run for a while before starting the engine allowing all the passages to fill with water before starting and then I make sure to watch the exhaust to verify that water is continually ejecting from the engine. This at least eases my mind.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-25-2011, 01:56 PM
I do use the flush pro but because of the horrible water pressure at my house. I always let it run for a while before starting the engine allowing all the passages to fill with water before starting and then I make sure to watch the exhaust to verify that water is continually ejecting from the engine. This at least eases my mind.

All the more reason to use the bucket method (with a larger bucket) to have ample supply of water. Just sayin'

Gonzo
10-25-2011, 03:01 PM
I struggled with this last year. it was my first year winterizing on the lift and I didnt get to fog the engine because I was constantly pouring RV fluid into the shallow bucket I was forced to use. Can someone tell me the size of flexible tube I need to buy to go into my intake hose so I can get some reach into a 5 gallon bucket? My place at the lake is pretty remote and it would save me an hr or two if I could buy it before going.

thanks in advance!

CantRepeat
10-25-2011, 03:37 PM
I struggled with this last year. it was my first year winterizing on the lift and I didnt get to fog the engine because I was constantly pouring RV fluid into the shallow bucket I was forced to use. Can someone tell me the size of flexible tube I need to buy to go into my intake hose so I can get some reach into a 5 gallon bucket? My place at the lake is pretty remote and it would save me an hr or two if I could buy it before going.

thanks in advance!

What ever you put in the intake hose will probably need to be 1.25 OD inch. You can get a piece of SS tubing and use that to connect the hose to reach your bucket.

Also, you can fog the motor after you remove the impeller without starting it. Simply remove the kill switch lanyard and the impeller and fog away.

Gonzo
10-25-2011, 04:40 PM
Thanks!!..............

BROUSSARD
03-19-2012, 06:33 PM
Can you make a video on how you rigged your bucket?

acguy714
03-20-2012, 12:42 AM
Another choice to do it the right way with no issues is this piece. I have this installed on my boat and works like a charm.
http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DP7

AZX9
03-20-2012, 01:54 AM
That looks like a great replacement for the basic open PVC T that I have. Turn on the hose and a good portion of the water pours out the bottom of the inlet. The price of that thing is really high for what it is though.

CantRepeat
03-20-2012, 06:06 AM
Another choice to do it the right way with no issues is this piece. I have this installed on my boat and works like a charm.
http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DP7

That's the same as shoving a garden hose into the inlet. I'm not saying it's the correct or wrong way, I'm just saying it's the same result.

BrooksfamX2
03-20-2012, 10:26 AM
That's the same as shoving a garden hose into the inlet. I'm not saying it's the correct or wrong way, I'm just saying it's the same result.


Except it has a check valve to keep the water from running out the inlet. As posted earlier, some inlets are blocket by the trailer bunk. so this would be a good alternative............

Sodar
03-20-2012, 10:40 AM
I think this argument is similar to the tie-down argument, only unlike the tie-down argument there is no wrong answer.

I doubt there is a marine service center in the country that uses a bucket to light off boat they are servicing. The motors are not under load, are ran for a relatively short period of time and are provided more than adequate cooling. I also find it entertaining that MasterCraft offers a hose connection flush port on their SS Series boats. Man, I tell you, MC must be damn near a recall on those because so many people have fried their motors after running their boats for 5 minutes. :rolleyes:

I've got to be honest, I have ran offshore motors that are worth more than most boats on this forum off the hose and never had an issue. I have also used a flushing device offered by the MANUFACTURER that connects to the hose.

I guess what it comes down to is if running off a bucket makes you sleep better at night, go for it. Just don't get on a pedestal saying your method is "the" method.

CantRepeat
03-20-2012, 11:30 AM
I guess what it comes down to is if running off a bucket makes you sleep better at night, go for it. Just don't get on a pedestal saying your method is "the" method.

Everyone has to make up his or her own mind on what method they feel comfortable with using.

east tx skier
03-20-2012, 11:38 AM
I haven't bothered to chime in on this thread, but I only became a bucket user after I had a fake-a-lake fall over without my knowing it and had a garden hose drop pressure when it was shoved inside the raw water hose (I have no idea why this happened, but as soon as I undid the hose clamp, pressure returned). The bucket method works for me because it is cheap, simple, and I can see whether it is working.

With that said, I have no vested interest in how others run their boats on the trailer. I have, in the past, merely offered up the method I settled on as an alternative. As with anything, you should do what works best for you.

acguy714
03-20-2012, 12:04 PM
That's the same as shoving a garden hose into the inlet. I'm not saying it's the correct or wrong way, I'm just saying it's the same result.

Let me correct myself. Rather than saying its the right way to do it, I ll say its the more convenient way of doing it. You install it once on the RW side and you never have to do it again. There are check value inside so it knows when it's a fake a lake or not.

acguy714
03-20-2012, 12:08 PM
I haven't bothered to chime in on this thread, but I only became a bucket user after I had a fake-a-lake fall over without my knowing it and had a garden hose drop pressure when it was shoved inside the raw water hose (I have no idea why this happened, but as soon as I undid the hose clamp, pressure returned). The bucket method works for me because it is cheap, simple, and I can see whether it is working.

With that said, I have no vested interest in how others run their on the trailer. I have, in the past, merely offered up the method I settled on as an alternative. As with anything, you should do what works best for you.

Agreed....

Sodar
03-21-2012, 03:27 PM
Who needs a bucket? Pfft!

acguy714
03-21-2012, 04:02 PM
Who needs a bucket? Pfft!

Show off, but I like it....thumbs up!

east tx skier
03-21-2012, 04:39 PM
Who needs a bucket? Pfft!

If that tank isn't filled with distilled holy water, that boat is being placed at tremendous risk! :rolleyes:

CantRepeat
03-21-2012, 05:02 PM
Who needs a bucket? Pfft!

Makes me think my setup isn't all that great!!! :D

east tx skier
03-21-2012, 09:17 PM
We had a boat dealer with a tank like that. The made a mess of my throttle cable and went out of business. I assume it was the tank and not their horrible customer service.

P.S., my experience with Harwood Marine was awful. When the mechanic tells you he "southern engineered" the problem on your boat, be afraid. Glad they're out of business. Couldn't have happened to a nicer d0uchbag.

CantRepeat
03-21-2012, 10:24 PM
We had a boat dealer with a tank like that. The made a mess of my throttle cable and went out of business. I assume it was the tank and not their horrible customer service.

P.S., my experience with Harwood Marine was awful. When the mechanic tells you he "southern engineered" the problem on your boat, be afraid. Glad they're out of business. Couldn't have happened to a nicer d0uchbag.

Um Doug.... lol :D:D:D

-V-
03-24-2012, 04:33 PM
here is what I do, have yet to have a problem. Home depot 5 gallon bucket with the hose from the raw water pump submerged in water. hose from house in the bucket. I am able to keep an eye on the water level and if there is a problem i can shut her down quick.

mikeg205
10-16-2012, 11:21 PM
Okay as of today I am a convert. I used my $20 dollar 5-gallon bucket solution today.. $5 for polyester resin adhesive and $10 for hole drill bit. At idle my water pressure could not keep up with the actual draw and demand of my '95 5.7L TBI. I was shocked...I thought I had enough pressure..even though I had run just garden hose in the past....I am a convert...maybe its just my MC OCD...thanks for the video Can't Repeat.

If anyone needs my hole drill bit..let me know...I will probably never use it again. It took me about 10 minutes to make the bucket... that included putting the tools away and waiting for the 2 minute resin away.

mikeg205
10-16-2012, 11:24 PM
here is what I do, have yet to have a problem. Home depot 5 gallon bucket with the hose from the raw water pump submerged in water. hose from house in the bucket. I am able to keep an eye on the water level and if there is a problem i can shut her down quick.

Hey -V- I would fix that seepage in you rise...I had some in 2010 which I fix in 2011. You'll most likely will see some pitting in the riser/exhaust manifold union...just suggestion...for your clean motor...

CantRepeat
11-05-2013, 11:00 AM
Up!!!!

mikeg205
11-05-2013, 11:09 AM
Up!!!!

yes!!! thanks for putting that back up... my hose pressure can't keep up with the depletion of the bucket even at idle.

CantRepeat
11-05-2013, 11:17 AM
yes!!! thanks for putting that back up... my hose pressure can't keep up with the depletion of the bucket even at idle.

Yeah, I closed that account, doh!

Bigger bucket?

mikeg205
11-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Yeah, I closed that account, doh!

Bigger bucket?

I believe I will be getting a bigger bucket... ;)

zsqure
11-05-2013, 11:28 AM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/05/ratuhuhe.jpg
My bucket method without putting a hole in a perfectly good bucket. After temp is reached Ty and I just poured in 5-1/2 gallons of antifreeze without shutting anything down. You gotta be fast!

pbgbottle
11-05-2013, 11:36 AM
Fake a lake works good for me on my old tristar
, we have good pressure here, But I used the 5 gallon bucket yesterday to suck antifreeze into the old girl. It sucked up almost
20 liters or 5 gallons i think ,
how much do you guys suck into your engine?

mikeg205
11-05-2013, 12:10 PM
Fake a lake works good for me on my old tristar
, we have good pressure here, But I used the 5 gallon bucket yesterday to suck antifreeze into the old girl. It sucked up almost
20 liters or 5 gallons i think ,
how much do you guys suck into your engine?

I run 5 gallons... takes about that much to get a good flow out the exhaust. "OLD TRISTAR" them could be fightin' words here... ;) :D

uplander
11-05-2013, 11:40 PM
after you suck in the antifreeze do you pull any plugs to check

thatsmrmastercraft
11-06-2013, 12:11 AM
after you suck in the antifreeze do you pull any plugs to check

I never do. You just end up losing antifreeze.

prostar205er
11-06-2013, 03:13 PM
don't forget the thermostat...my OCD on MC got the best of me...soooo I decided to pull and will change the thermostat...I think the left is the original from 1995...I am second owner of the PS 205 second season...I think the left one should be retired...its for sale if anyone wants it...8p

Is this something you pull and check on a regular basis?

mikeg205
11-06-2013, 04:00 PM
I inspect every year - I water ski in a muddy river and lots of debris sometimes... duck weeks grasses etc...

Table Rocker
11-06-2013, 04:29 PM
I'm waiting to see who is going to be the first to rig up a tub with a float valve to automatically shut off the water when it's full.

CCAnderson
11-11-2013, 01:07 PM
at 1000 rpm the raw pump moves a bit less than 40 liters per minute or 10 gallon per minute. Add modest back pressure and a nice idle speed of 750-800 RPM the flowrate drops to ~ 20 LPM or 5 gallon per minute. Unless you want to rev your engine and make noise in the driveway the fake a lake should be more than enough to supply you engine

Pump curve a the link below.

http://www.pumpvendor.com/media/johnson/Johnson_10-24805-01.pdf

CantRepeat
11-11-2013, 01:14 PM
I don't know how much difference there is in the flow between 1000 and 1500 RPM but at 1500 RPM it's closer to 30 gallons per minute.

CCAnderson
11-12-2013, 05:23 PM
according to the pump curve 1500 rpm ==> 55 LPM which is just over 14 gpm

thatsmrmastercraft
11-12-2013, 05:42 PM
I'm waiting to see who is going to be the first to rig up a tub with a float valve to automatically shut off the water when it's full.

I like that idea.....

Cloaked
11-12-2013, 05:49 PM
.........the fake a lake should be more than enough to supply you engine

Pump curve a the link below.

http://www.pumpvendor.com/media/johnson/Johnson_10-24805-01.pdfCorrect, and the same garden hose will feed any water supply in the same manner.... I don't see the need for a bucket concoction. However, it's each to their own....



.

CantRepeat
11-12-2013, 06:51 PM
according to the pump curve 1500 rpm ==> 55 LPM which is just over 14 gpm

Sorry, but real world testing shows it sucking up 5 gallons in about 10 seconds. This equals about 30 gallons a minute.

CantRepeat
11-12-2013, 06:52 PM
Correct, and the same garden hose will feed any water supply in the same manner.... I don't see the need for a bucket concoction. However, it's each to their own....


At full flow my water hose will not keep up with the water demand at anything over idle. Hence, why I use the bucket. It also makes it very easy in getting the AF in the motor.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-12-2013, 06:54 PM
At full flow my water hose will not keep up with the water demand at anything over idle. Hence, why I use the bucket. It also makes it very easy in getting the AF in the motor.

I can keep up with demand at idle, but not above idle. That's why I switched from a bucket to a tub.

drschemel
11-12-2013, 06:56 PM
I don't have any scientific evidence, but I am inclined to believe the "Fake-a-Lake" will supply water fast enough to cool you motor when it is on the trailer running and not under any load. Even though the impeller can pump water faster, it doesn't necessarily have to. There will still be plenty of water moving through it to keep the impeller from running dry or heating up. Running from a bucket and a hose does essentially the same thing, even if the bucket seems to be dry, you are still sucking up water at a pretty good flow rate.

mikeg205
11-12-2013, 07:02 PM
I don't have any scientific evidence, but I am inclined to believe the "Fake-a-Lake" will supply water fast enough to cool you motor when it is on the trailer running and not under any load. Even though the impeller can pump water faster, it doesn't necessarily have to. There will still be plenty of water moving through it to keep the impeller from running dry or heating up. Running from a bucket and a hose does essentially the same thing, even if the bucket seems to be dry, you are still sucking up water at a pretty good flow rate.

until it slips off... and a fully primed impeller works cooler as well IMO.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-12-2013, 07:07 PM
until it slips off... and a fully primed impeller works cooler as well IMO.

That's why I got rid of mine. Had it set and hopped into the boat carefully. Glad I had my son keeping an eye on the thing.

Sodar
11-12-2013, 07:12 PM
I don't have any scientific evidence, but I am inclined to believe the "Fake-a-Lake" will supply water fast enough to cool you motor when it is on the trailer running and not under any load. Even though the impeller can pump water faster, it doesn't necessarily have to. There will still be plenty of water moving through it to keep the impeller from running dry or heating up. Running from a bucket and a hose does essentially the same thing, even if the bucket seems to be dry, you are still sucking up water at a pretty good flow rate.

I am on the same page as this. I don't use the fake-a-lake, but I direct garden hose to water pump connection. I still just don't see how running on the hose for 5 minutes is going to harm anything. Your underlined comments make perfect sense in my mind.

This said, I completely understand the ease of using a bucket or tub to get the antifreeze into the block. Brilliant idea on that end.

prostar205er
11-13-2013, 11:19 AM
I am on the same page as this. I don't use the fake-a-lake, but I direct garden hose to water pump connection. I still just don't see how running on the hose for 5 minutes is going to harm anything. Your underlined comments make perfect sense in my mind.

This said, I completely understand the ease of using a bucket or tub to get the antifreeze into the block. Brilliant idea on that end.

Agreed.

I'm curious...if the point is to get the engine temp up, doesn't using less water get you their more quickly, or am I missing something? There's been a time or two where my flow was low and so I saw the temp get up to 200+ pretty quickly. Isn't that the goal or is that heating up the wrong things? :)

CantRepeat
11-13-2013, 11:26 AM
Agreed.

I'm curious...if the point is to get the engine temp up, doesn't using less water get you their more quickly, or am I missing something? There's been a time or two where my flow was low and so I saw the temp get up to 200+ pretty quickly. Isn't that the goal or is that heating up the wrong things? :)

I'm not sure if you are joking or not.

Not all parts of the engine and exhaust with heat up at the same rate. With a lack of water you risk over heating parts of the engine and this includes the flex hoses and the mufflers. I'm not looking to get the temp to 200 degrees or heat up the engine unevenly.

When I'm doing my winterization I run the motor for a lot longer then 5 minutes. Getting the engine to temp probably takes 15 minutes alone. One of the things I want to accomplish is getting the oil good and warm as well.

mikeg205
11-13-2013, 11:28 AM
Agreed.

I'm curious...if the point is to get the engine temp up, doesn't using less water get you their more quickly, or am I missing something? There's been a time or two where my flow was low and so I saw the temp get up to 200+ pretty quickly. Isn't that the goal or is that heating up the wrong things? :)

I am very in the protect the engine at any cost or action. After seeing two motors fry head gaskets and worse I want the maximum amount of water traveling past the cylinders - The gap(surface) between cylinders is small and things get hot there very quick.

I'll call hose method adequate - but bucket or tub method best. I don't want to see the inside of my engine anytime soon. But that is just me.

When I ran the bucket method - I just could not go back. I do use hose to do a start test before I trailer anywhere tho' - just make sure she starts after sitting for a week or so.

prostar205er
11-13-2013, 11:41 AM
I'm not sure if you are joking or not.

Not all parts of the engine and exhaust with heat up at the same rate. With a lack of water you risk over heating parts of the engine and this includes the flex hoses and the mufflers. I'm not looking to get the temp to 200 degrees or heat up the engine unevenly.

When I'm doing my winterization I run the motor for a lot longer then 5 minutes. Getting the engine to temp probably takes 15 minutes alone. One of the things I want to accomplish is getting the oil good and warm as well.

Yes...and no. It was by accident that I saw the temp rise quickly, but it got me to wondering. So how do you know when it is to temp...or are you still going by the temp gauge but getting there at engine idle?

And are you wanting the oil warm because you are going to be changing it as well?

thatsmrmastercraft
11-13-2013, 11:52 AM
Waring up the engine can take a while in MN because the hose water isn't very warm in October. A person can take some advantage of heat soak by running the engine for five minutes, then shutting down for a couple minutes, then restarting and running for five minutes....... You do need to run at more than idle speed to get the engine warmed up and thats where the supply of water direct from the hose is not sufficient in my estimation.

CantRepeat
11-13-2013, 12:16 PM
Yes...and no. It was by accident that I saw the temp rise quickly, but it got me to wondering. So how do you know when it is to temp...or are you still going by the temp gauge but getting there at engine idle?

And are you wanting the oil warm because you are going to be changing it as well?

I'm using the gauge. But, even when the gauge gets to 160 that doesn't mean the engine and oil are at that temp. The oil takes longer to warm up so I run the engine up to 1500 so it happens a bit faster. Yes, the main reason I warm the oil is to help change it.

Those exhaust hoses that run from the exhaust manifolds to the mufflers and from the mufflers to the transom will burn up and normally collapse inside before you do damage to the engine.

Like some here have said, if you have adequate water flow and you don't over rev the engine you probably wont hurt anything. For me, I want to error on the side of not taking chances.

CantRepeat
11-13-2013, 12:18 PM
The reason I did the water bucket demo wasn't to say right or wrong way. It was to show people just how much water these engines really do use. From there people can decide what they want to do.

prostar205er
11-13-2013, 04:42 PM
I'm using the gauge. But, even when the gauge gets to 160 that doesn't mean the engine and oil are at that temp. The oil takes longer to warm up so I run the engine up to 1500 so it happens a bit faster. Yes, the main reason I warm the oil is to help change it.

Those exhaust hoses that run from the exhaust manifolds to the mufflers and from the mufflers to the transom will burn up and normally collapse inside before you do damage to the engine.

Like some here have said, if you have adequate water flow and you don't over rev the engine you probably wont hurt anything. For me, I want to error on the side of not taking chances.

Thanks Tim. Makes sense. Is 160 the tipping point before it opens?

After you get it there, do you drain all the water or just fill your tub with AF and let it suck it in to replace the water. (Seems to be a few schools of thought on this so wanted to see what your process was.)

Thanks

CantRepeat
11-13-2013, 04:50 PM
Thanks Tim. Makes sense. Is 160 the tipping point before it opens?

After you get it there, do you drain all the water or just fill your tub with AF and let it suck it in to replace the water. (Seems to be a few schools of thought on this so wanted to see what your process was.)

Thanks

160 is the point my thermostat opens. I run the engine for 10 or 15 minutes past that point. Then I drain the oil and change the filter. Once all that is done run it back up to temp +10 or 15 minutes again. I run the bucket down and then put in 6 gallons of AF. I run that into the motor and shut it down. Then all I do is pull the impeller. I never drain the water or the AF. I don't drain the water because end up pulling the hot water off of the thermostat which could allow it to close. I don't drain the AF because I want the anti corrosion of the AF in the motor.

To each their own.

prostar205er
11-14-2013, 04:04 PM
160 is the point my thermostat opens. I run the engine for 10 or 15 minutes past that point. Then I drain the oil and change the filter. Once all that is done run it back up to temp +10 or 15 minutes again. I run the bucket down and then put in 6 gallons of AF. I run that into the motor and shut it down. Then all I do is pull the impeller. I never drain the water or the AF. I don't drain the water because end up pulling the hot water off of the thermostat which could allow it to close. I don't drain the AF because I want the anti corrosion of the AF in the motor.

To each their own.

Indeed...lots of ways to skin that cat. But great to hear from those that have skinned that cat year after year and have a trophy room of mounted heads to show for it.

Thanks Oz for letting me peek behind the curtain. ;)

CantRepeat
03-24-2014, 07:43 AM
I never new MC had an advisory about fake-o-lakes.

JimN
03-24-2014, 09:55 AM
I never new MC had an advisory about fake-o-lakes.

They told us at training to avoid using them but how we supplied water was up to us to find the best way because not all of the shops would have access to the same materials. The best setup I worked with was a Rubbermade watering tank for livestock. It had a plug for draining, it held 50 gallons of water or anti-freeze and for running inboards, I screwed a piece of rubber form a conveyor belt to the long side and around the ends, so it would catch the spray and return it to the tub. I used a bilge pump with muff for running stern-drives.

lake weir skier
03-25-2014, 12:19 AM
They told us at training to avoid using them but how we supplied water was up to us to find the best way because not all of the shops would have access to the same materials. The best setup I worked with was a Rubbermade watering tank for livestock. It had a plug for draining, it held 50 gallons of water or anti-freeze and for running inboards, I screwed a piece of rubber form a conveyor belt to the long side and around the ends, so it would catch the spray and return it to the tub. I used a bilge pump with muff for running stern-drives.

And after you told me in another thread you were not advising I treat my engine like a farm animal. :D

JimN
03-25-2014, 10:12 AM
And after you told me in another thread you were not advising I treat my engine like a farm animal. :D

I thought I said that you shouldn't beat it like a farm animal.

I guess it depends on the farm and the animal.:eek:

mikeg205
03-25-2014, 12:04 PM
I never new MC had an advisory about fake-o-lakes.

bring on the buckets and totes :D :D :D :D

thatsmrmastercraft
03-25-2014, 12:21 PM
I never new MC had an advisory about fake-o-lakes.

bring on the buckets and totes :D :D :D :D

Feeling rather vindicated today. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-dance013.gif

JimN
03-25-2014, 12:43 PM
Feeling rather vindicated today. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-dance013.gif

I think I wrote about my experience with this POS- I propped it up to the hull fitting, got in the boat and as I walked toward the helm, I heard it fall over. I can't see how it's supposed to stay in place when the engine isn't running- the water squirts past the cup and that makes a fine frictionless environment.

mikeg205
03-25-2014, 12:51 PM
I think I wrote about my experience with this POS- I propped it up to the hull fitting, got in the boat and as I walked toward the helm, I heard it fall over. I can't see how it's supposed to stay in place when the engine isn't running- the water squirts past the cup and that makes a fine frictionless environment.

you're vindicated too... :D :D :D - buckets and totes forever!!!!!

thatsmrmastercraft
03-25-2014, 01:00 PM
I think I wrote about my experience with this POS- I propped it up to the hull fitting, got in the boat and as I walked toward the helm, I heard it fall over. I can't see how it's supposed to stay in place when the engine isn't running- the water squirts past the cup and that makes a fine frictionless environment.

You did sir. The FAL was the first thing I bought for my boat. I was uncomfortable with the poor seal, though it never fell out on me. I found it on the clearance table at my local marine store and I actually made some money selling it on craigslist.

If it had a soft silicone seal, a spring-loaded handle and a wide no-slip base, it would be an improvement. I still like the reserve that a bucket or tub that provides.

Rockman
03-25-2014, 01:22 PM
Mike, I am just going to make one of these...it will be on wheels so you can use it anytime!;)

mikeg205
03-25-2014, 02:14 PM
ooh I like that... needs some beer holders... ;) - oh yeah - it would warm them up ;)

Rockman
03-25-2014, 02:52 PM
ooh I like that... needs some beer holders... ;) - oh yeah - it would warm them up ;)

Strategically placed...;)

cbryan70
03-25-2014, 03:06 PM
My boat was there in oct. I wish I had the room to store somthing like that.

thatsmrmastercraft
03-25-2014, 03:40 PM
Somewhere I have seen plastic 55 gallon drums cut in half with a framework on wheels to support it.

uplander
03-25-2014, 06:37 PM
When I was a kid we had a tank like that at the marina and just backed the boat up and ran it in the tank and kept an eye on the freeze protection level from dilution. We never drained blocks just ran the boat in this tank until everything warmed up.

Rockman
03-25-2014, 10:41 PM
My boat was there in oct. I wish I had the room to store somthing like that.

What did you have done?