View Full Version : Zero Flex Has Flex!
jmyers
08-04-2005, 12:31 PM
I notice the zero flex tower seems to flex alot, where is not supposed to flex? Also my buddy(that owns the Sanger) said it looked like the mounting areas were lifting off the rails. This is a 1 month old boat! some MC owner input would be appreciated!
AirJunky
08-04-2005, 12:40 PM
I always thought it was ironic that ZeroFlex was called that. Walk up to the side of any ZeroFlex & give it a good shake. They flex. Normally this isn't too big a deal because not many wakeboarders can do any air tricks out in the flats. But foil riders do air rolls, front flips, helis, even mobes out there. And a strong guy trying to hold on to a sketchy landing will flexx the he!! out of that tower. So much so that it will flip the best non-stretch rope all the way back into the boat!
I've also seen them do quite a bit of bouncing when the boat is under way in choppy water & the tower is fully loaded with boards, lights, speakers, etc.
Look at a Titan or Ichor tower........ now thats ZERO flex!
bigmac
08-04-2005, 12:47 PM
I notice the zero flex tower seems to flex alot, where is not supposed to flex? Also my buddy(that owns the Sanger) said it looked like the mounting areas were lifting off the rails. This is a 1 month old boat! some MC owner input would be appreciated!
I've been pretty impressed with the lateral, back-and-forth motion of the Zero-Flex tower on the X-10 that we ski when it goes over mild-moderate chop.
ktn_cmu
08-04-2005, 12:54 PM
it looked like the mounting areas were lifting off the rails.
Are you saying it looks as though it is not mounted correctly anymore? If this is the case, you don't need our speculation, you need to visit the dealer.
AirJunky
08-04-2005, 12:56 PM
I've been pretty impressed with the lateral, back-and-forth motion of the Zero-Flex tower on the X-10 that we ski when it goes over mild-moderate chop.
Agreed....... but not many towers (if any) do flex from front to back.
jmyers
08-04-2005, 12:58 PM
I don't know how the mounts look, I didn't see it yet. It could be Sanger boy talking s**t like usual. I will look at them on Sat. but it does look like it flexes alot in choppy water(with speaker box , and boards)
RobertT
08-04-2005, 01:08 PM
Mine flexs, but I dont see it as an issue as long as there is no structural damage later.
I try not to pull tubes at all, but when I do I try not to use the tower.
The 04 is mounted with a very large through bolt that goes through the hull which is substantially reinforced in that location, then a large washer and nut.
One of these days I might get my hands on a stainless or aluminum plate to use in addition to the washer.
Has anyone else done that?
Where is this swimsuit thread????? :rant:
prostar205
08-04-2005, 01:11 PM
I would agree with the extra flex in the '05 Zero Flex Towers. Mine really flexes from side-to-side in choppy water. It probably does not help that I have 4 speakers mounted to the tower.
I have never been in a boat that has the '01-'04 tower.
jimjohn
08-04-2005, 01:34 PM
Those towers 05 towers suck
jmyers
08-04-2005, 01:36 PM
Mine flexs, but I dont see it as an issue as long as there is no structural damage later.
I try not to pull tubes at all, but when I do I try not to use the tower.
The 04 is mounted with a very large through bolt that goes through the hull which is substantially reinforced in that location, then a large washer and nut.
One of these days I might get my hands on a stainless or aluminum plate to use in addition to the washer.
Has anyone else done that?
Where is this swimsuit thread????? :rant:
the swimsuit thread is in off topic discussion 13 down!
Diesel
08-04-2005, 01:44 PM
I would agree with the extra flex in the '05 Zero Flex Towers. Mine really flexes from side-to-side in choppy water. It probably does not help that I have 4 speakers mounted to the tower.
I have never been in a boat that has the '01-'04 tower.
My 05 is actually quite scary!! It moves a ton and it does not appear to be the tower itself. You can easily watch the gunnels of my boat move in and out as the tower sways side to side. I wonder how long the shoebox joint is going to last with all that movement??
bigmac
08-04-2005, 01:49 PM
My 05 is actually quite scary!! It moves a ton and it does not appear to be the tower itself. You can easily watch the gunnels of my boat move in and out as the tower sways side to side. I wonder how long the shoebox joint is going to last with all that movement??
It will last at least as long as your warranty.....probably a little longer.. ;)
jmyers
08-04-2005, 01:51 PM
Yes, but then you can B***H your A** off to team talk and MC and get it fixed anytime!! So don't worry!!
jimjohn
08-04-2005, 02:58 PM
I have not had any problems... Knock on wood
We have an 05 tower too. It does flex some. We have found though that one of the mounting screws/bolts on the drivers side in the back comes loose often (the big black one). We hear a squeek and then get flex. Tighten that one up and it goes away for the most part. We also check all of the other screws and bolts every other time we go out because they will loosen up.
The weight of your speakers on the top might add to the flex. More wieght on the top to move around, kinda like changing the center of gravity.
:twocents:
:)
jmyers
08-04-2005, 03:16 PM
We have an 05 tower too. It does flex some. We have found though that one of the mounting screws/bolts on the drivers side in the back comes loose often (the big black one). We hear a squeek and then get flex. Tighten that one up and it goes away for the most part. We also check all of the other screws and bolts every other time we go out because they will loosen up.
The weight of your speakers on the top might add to the flex. More wieght on the top to move around, kinda like changing the center of gravity.
:twocents:
:)
Well why do they have to go naming it ZERO FLEX, why couldn't it be a SOMETIMES FLEX, or LIKES TO FLEX!! :rolleyes:
LOL :D Ummm...because "zero flex" sounds so much better?
Who is your dealer? Have you asked them about it?
jmyers
08-04-2005, 03:20 PM
LOL :D Ummm...because "zero flex" sounds so much better?
Who is your dealer? Have you asked them about it?
False advertising, I will check those bolts Sat. Thanks for the info! :purplaugh
rodltg2
08-04-2005, 03:41 PM
i havent seen my new dimension tower flex at all on my TT. i dont have any gordo friends that use it though.
rick s.
08-04-2005, 03:43 PM
Mine flexs, but I dont see it as an issue as long as there is no structural damage later.
I try not to pull tubes at all, but when I do I try not to use the tower.
The 04 is mounted with a very large through bolt that goes through the hull which is substantially reinforced in that location, then a large washer and nut.
One of these days I might get my hands on a stainless or aluminum plate to use in addition to the washer.
Has anyone else done that?
Where is this swimsuit thread????? :rant:
My 99 maristar 210 had no built-in backing plates, and when the '03 zeroflex tower was installed they used only large fender washers for backing. This spring I made backing plates out of 3/8ths inch aluminum plates, about 3 x 7 for the back, then used 3 inch x 1/4 channel, about 6 inches long for the fronts. Bedded with bondo to get good surface area. Now, I can really tighten up the tower bolts to reduce side-to-side movement, although there is still a small amount.
I bought the aluminum pieces cut-to-size from www.onlinemetals.com. Very cost-effective, I might add.
sizzler
08-05-2005, 03:15 AM
my 04 tower flexs......its like trees in the wind..if they did not flex a little they would snap.....after saying this it does not move nearly as much as the 05 towers on my friends X7 and X2......
have to be careful for the quality of post now...after the shambles you appear to have had last night with young boys on the PC
BriEOD
08-05-2005, 08:05 AM
...after the shambles you appear to have had last night with young boys on the PC
We bought him a plane ticket to come visit Uncle Pete on the litte island in the North Atlantic. :purplaugh
sizzler
08-05-2005, 08:55 AM
i'll be on vacation :dance:
jimjohn
08-05-2005, 09:25 AM
Where are you going on vacation?
Workin' 4 Toys
08-05-2005, 09:53 AM
My 99 maristar 210 had no built-in backing plates, and when the '03 zeroflex tower was installed they used only large fender washers for backing. This spring I made backing plates out of 3/8ths inch aluminum plates, about 3 x 7 for the back, then used 3 inch x 1/4 channel, about 6 inches long for the fronts. Bedded with bondo to get good surface area. Now, I can really tighten up the tower bolts to reduce side-to-side movement, although there is still a small amount.
I bought the aluminum pieces cut-to-size from www.onlinemetals.com. Very cost-effective, I might add.
Let me get this right, you embedded aluminum channel into the surface of your boat?? Or the underside?
And 3"X7", I don't think there is any more room for much more than a fender washer other wise I would think about it. Maybe I will look into it again. Not a bag idea using aluminum or stainless flat stock if I can get it to fit. perhaps another good winter project.
rick s.
08-05-2005, 12:12 PM
Let me get this right, you embedded aluminum channel into the surface of your boat?? Or the underside?
And 3"X7", I don't think there is any more room for much more than a fender washer other wise I would think about it. Maybe I will look into it again. Not a bag idea using aluminum or stainless flat stock if I can get it to fit. perhaps another good winter project.
These backing plates were located inside the boat. The aft plates measured 2.75 inches in width, length was 6 or 7 inches. A 3/4 inch hole was drilled nearly in the center of the plate for the tower mounting bolt. The original dimension was 3 inches, but that was too wide to fit properly.
The port-forward mounting surface needed a little bit of grinding inside the boat to get a relatively flat surface. I used a dremel tool to cut off a small backing plate (for I have no idea what) to clear the inside surface.
I buttered the inside mounting plate with bondo, moved it into position and slid it over the tower mounting bolt. Using the fender washer that was the original backing plate, I put that over the bolt then tightened the nut until bondo oozed out of the edges of the backing plate. An hour later I tightened up the bolts good and tight.
I had never worked with bondo before (fiberglass filler that was bought at the local auto parts store) and you have to be really careful. One that you don't make too "hot" of a mixture and it kicks off before you are ready. Two, it's really messy and you don't want to get it all over the boat. I wore rubber gloves to at least keep the stuff off me.
jmyers
08-05-2005, 12:21 PM
OK, the towers all suck!!! Just joking, I don't thimk as big and as high the tower is it's not going to move. On the Sanger my buddy has, it has a flight tower with smaller diameter pipe and not as high, I also swear the thing is steel not aluminum! I do need to check those backing plates and the nuts. Just thought I should chime back in on my post!! :twocents: :D
Granite_33
08-05-2005, 12:22 PM
Seems to me I noticed a small amount of flex earlier in the summer.
Recently, though it seems like it is moving a little more. I notice it mainly due to the mirror bouncing more than I remember.
I'm heading to a hardware store this weekend to look for the right sized allen wrench. I'm going to try to torque it down some more.
RobertT
08-05-2005, 12:41 PM
Its a 1/2" allen. Also, you will need somebody on the inside of the boat to hold the nut. Actually, you are better off holding the bolt tight with the allen and turning the nut with the wrench as the bottom of the bolt has serations to keep it from moving.
Mastercraft engineers, please do us a favor, in the 07 boats have your machine shop that makes your bolts use a 1/2" square drive hole in lieu of the allen wrench that nobody has. It would be just as strong, and everyone has a 1/2" drive socket or an extension. OK???
:) Still love ya though
jimjohn
08-05-2005, 01:55 PM
Regardless, No towers flex worse than Malibu's new Swoop Tower. That carbon fiber piece of sh*t sucks. We rode behind a new vlx with one and it was so bad you felt like you were attached to the boat by a rubber band!
east tx skier
08-05-2005, 02:02 PM
Seems to me I noticed a small amount of flex earlier in the summer.
Recently, though it seems like it is moving a little more. I notice it mainly due to the mirror bouncing more than I remember.
I'm heading to a hardware store this weekend to look for the right sized allen wrench. I'm going to try to torque it down some more.
Wouldn't you want a little give in it. The ski pylons have always flexed under load.
jimjohn
08-05-2005, 02:06 PM
You don't want any flex at all. Have you not ever been riding in chop with six or seven board + speakers + lights on your tower. With any flex at all the dang thing will shake like crazy. You want it as stable as possible. Pylons flex because they suck.
jmyers
08-05-2005, 02:28 PM
You don't want any flex at all. Have you not ever been riding in chop with six or seven board + speakers + lights on your tower. With any flex at all the dang thing will shake like crazy. You want it as stable as possible. Pylons flex because they suck.
You don't have lights, and you only have two speakers from what I can see!! If that is your boat? :confused:
jimjohn
08-05-2005, 02:29 PM
No, but my old wakesetter did, and eventually my X2 will as well. I'm holding out for Deafcon IV when I can afford it.
RobertT
08-05-2005, 03:14 PM
jimjohn, I would jump all over this....but I liken that to being in a room full of home owners talking about...well....home owning, when a homeless man shows up and starts to try and enter the conversation by bringing up his "mansion".
You wouldn't laugh at him, and tell him he was a looser for even being there, it would just be sad. You would feel bad, it must be a tortured mind that must lie about possessions to feel good about themselves. You would just bow your head, let him speak, and feel a little twinge of guilt for being so fortunate while others are clearly needy and in anguish.
Ok, maybe this is nothing like that analogy.
You are an idiot.
rlwiley
08-06-2005, 04:22 PM
Mine flexs, but I dont see it as an issue as long as there is no structural damage later.
I try not to pull tubes at all, but when I do I try not to use the tower.
The 04 is mounted with a very large through bolt that goes through the hull which is substantially reinforced in that location, then a large washer and nut.
One of these days I might get my hands on a stainless or aluminum plate to use in addition to the washer.
Has anyone else done that?
Where is this swimsuit thread????? :rant:
There should be no need to add any plate or additional washers. The mounting points on all MC boats have steel plates that are installed into the fiberglass. So the holes for mounting the towers are already reinforced 100 times better than the competitors. Learned this at the factory tour. Highly recommend the tour. Even got a free T-Shirt.
rick s.
08-08-2005, 01:13 PM
I think that you are right, in that all the new boats come with tower reinforcing points built-in at the factory. I'm not sure when this practice started, but my '99 did not come with the built-in backing plates.
Workin' 4 Toys
08-08-2005, 01:54 PM
When I removed my tower bolt to replace the rubber "gasket" I noticed the f-glass is about 1/2" thick there, I do not recall noticing a piece of steel of any sort with the exception of the fender washer. Next time I replace the rubber gaskets again in a few weeks, I will look in the drilled out hole for the steel reinforcment plate I hear about. Hopefully by then my trailer will be usable again and I can get it back to the garage.
jmyers
08-08-2005, 01:58 PM
When I removed my tower bolt to replace the rubber "gasket" I noticed the f-glass is about 1/2" thick there, I do not recall noticing a piece of steel of any sort with the exception of the fender washer. Next time I replace the rubber gaskets again in a few weeks, I will look in the drilled out hole for the steel reinforcment plate I hear about. Hopefully by then my trailer will be usable again and I can get it back to the garage.
The rubber gaskett between the tower base and the gunnel rail is slid over to one side, and there is a gap when the the boat is going through rough water and the tower sways side to side, I think I need to loosen the bolts and straighten that gaskett and tighten it back tighter than it is now, what do you think?
Workin' 4 Toys
08-08-2005, 02:20 PM
The rubber gaskett between the tower base and the gunnel rail is slid over to one side, and there is a gap when the the boat is going through rough water and the tower sways side to side, I think I need to loosen the bolts and straighten that gaskett and tighten it back tighter than it is now, what do you think?
The "gasket" should have been installed with sticky tape, and that should hold it tight to the tower base. In your case it sounds like the wax paper wasn't pulled from the tape and is able to move around. I replace mine because it cracks. . (Better it than the f-glass I tell myself) Order a new set should be about $15-20 for a set of 4. The rear set has one hole the forward set should have two holes, and make sure you take the paper off and stick it to the tower, then tighten.
jmyers
08-08-2005, 02:50 PM
The "gasket" should have been installed with sticky tape, and that should hold it tight to the tower base. In your case it sounds like the wax paper wasn't pulled from the tape and is able to move around. I replace mine because it cracks. . (Better it than the f-glass I tell myself) Order a new set should be about $15-20 for a set of 4. The rear set has one hole the forward set should have two holes, and make sure you take the paper off and stick it to the tower, then tighten.
Yea, it looks like they made the pads by hand(I guess when they say hand made boats they mean it!) Is it hard to take the tower off? I also have gel coat cracks from what looks like over tightning. They are supposed to fix that after I am done and can leave it for a couple of weeks!! Or mabey they should give me a new boat!! :uglyhamme
Workin' 4 Toys
08-08-2005, 02:56 PM
Yea, it looks like they made the pads by hand(I guess when they say hand made boats they mean it!) Is it hard to take the tower off? I also have gel coat cracks from what looks like over tightning. They are supposed to fix that after I am done and can leave it for a couple of weeks!! Or mabey they should give me a new boat!! :uglyhamme
If you buy new ones, you can tell they were cut on a machine, they are perfect shape to the tower. I did not remove the tower, I did mine one post at a time, no big deal, the one in front of the drivers seat s*cks to reach. But can be done. I think now you know why you have an issue, probably no tape on them like someone decided to make their own.
jmyers
08-08-2005, 03:04 PM
If you buy new ones, you can tell they were cut on a machine, they are perfect shape to the tower. I did not remove the tower, I did mine one post at a time, no big deal, the one in front of the drivers seat s*cks to reach. But can be done. I think now you know why you have an issue, probably no tape on them like someone decided to make their own.
It is a new boat, but was a demo so it was probably a first out of the factory with the zero flex thus the hand made rubber gaskets! Thanks for the info!! :D
RobertT
08-08-2005, 03:10 PM
I said it before, will say it again.
Mastercraft REALLY needs to change the allen bolt to a 1/2" square receptor that would accept a 1/2" drive socket extension.
I would like to keep mine torqued down to the appropriate torque, no higher or lower. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to do that with a 1/2" allen key.
I think alot of the problem is that they get loose, then there are point loads, then cracks. Then again, overtightening may be an issue too.
Oh well.
I would like to keep mine torqued down to the appropriate torque, no higher or lower. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to do that with a 1/2" allen key.
Will this work?
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=hand&item_ID=3210&group_ID=364&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
RobertT
08-08-2005, 04:24 PM
yes, it would. but will everyone really buy one just for this...I wont...but great idea!!!
Maybe I will, who knows.
Anyone know the torque spec?
I said it before, will say it again.
Mastercraft REALLY needs to change the allen bolt to a 1/2" square receptor that would accept a 1/2" drive socket extension.
I'm betting the allen drive is a pretty standard socket cap screw and making a square drive, while possible, would get quite expensive.
prostar205
08-08-2005, 04:32 PM
I have a 1/2 Allen drive for my 3/8" drive torque wrench. I got it at Home Depot, probably $10. They are well worth the $$$.
RobertT
08-08-2005, 04:39 PM
I'm betting the allen drive is a pretty standard socket cap screw and making a square drive, while possible, would get quite expensive.
Prolly right...this was just coming from a frustrated boat owner that drove around for an hour trying to find one that big.
Then again, every time I need an allen key I have the ENTIRE set other than the one I want...so it might be me and my allen wrench issues. :cool:
gregg
08-08-2005, 05:08 PM
5\16 x 1 inch bolt, seat 2 nuts against the head of the bolt then you can use a 1\2 inch wrench or socket to hold the bolt. Tightening should really be done on the nut side since the bolt has locking serations on it.
rodltg2
09-02-2005, 05:32 PM
i havent seen my new dimension tower flex at all on my TT. i dont have any gordo friends that use it though.
i posted the statement above early in this thread regrading the zeroflex flexing. i didint realize that it really did until i put my skylon tower on my new boat. my mb had a universal tower, so going to the zeroflex on my mc was a huge imporvement.however, now that i have the skylon tower it's another huge improvement. not only does it not flex as much but its so quite compared to the zeroflex. actully i had a new dimension tower but i belive they are built the same.
rod you are turning into a real hater
mitch
09-02-2005, 05:46 PM
rod you are turning into a real hater
Yes, it just now becoming tiring. Rod, Changed my mind do not send the pics. :rolleyes: Never had any issues w/ the Zeroflex I installed myself. FWIW The Skylon is one fugly tower, but I'm glad it's at least solid. :D
rodltg2
09-02-2005, 06:06 PM
not at all, i wouldnt put the skylon on an mc, it wouldnt look right. the new dimension tower is not an mc product anyway. these are actual observations dont get all butt hurt, and tell me that the skylon is fugly.
i installed my new domension tower myself as well and have had no problems.
not at all, i wouldnt put the skylon on an mc, it wouldnt look right. the new dimension tower is not an mc product anyway. these are actual observations dont get all butt hurt, and tell me that the skylon is fugly.
i installed my new domension tower myself as well and have had no problems.
butt hurt :purplaugh
I have to say that I have no experience with nd towers but I also wouldn't use an nd tower in a comment about zeroflex since they are not the same.
rodltg2
09-02-2005, 06:40 PM
of course they are not built by the same manufacturer but are probably very close to the same. either way this thread was started by somebody stating that they noticed alot of flex in their tower . my tower seemed very rigid and solid to me but i had nothing to compare it too except the skylon unversal tower. now all im saying is that the skylon swoop seems even more rigid . if you want to call it ugly and say that im becoming a mc hater go ahead but thats not the case. as i have stated before , i think mc's are great . just because mine has had problems doesnt mean to me that they all do.obviosley there are thoudands that dont have any . if they all did mc would be out of business. my choice to go malibu was a financial decsion ,plus i wanted to take a break from the 197 to clear my head. i no way think one is better than the other. they are both are good boats and have features that i prefer on one and maybe not on the other. i wont give any exmaples becuase you guys get bent out of shape, eventhough it would go in both directions.
That's cool, I won't do that either. I'm just messing with you about posting right and left in the negative threads now that you're in the boo.
again I have no experience with nd but raw materials and fab/weld processes play into rigidity as much as design does. They may look the same but good or bad, they are not the same.
jmyers
09-06-2005, 12:32 PM
That someone who srated this post is me, rod! And it still seems to flex some, but I haven't aligned those rubber pads on the tower base's and tightned the hex bolts yet. The thing is these towers also seem to be higher and wider than mst towers, and that will aslo make it seem like they are flexing. :twocents:
rodltg2
09-06-2005, 02:17 PM
youre right the tower does seem higher.
just realized that my zeroflex and Rodl's new dimension aren't even the same design as Jmeyers. (saw your gallery pic jmyers)
My zeroflex is very solid (after much heavy discussion with my dealer) no rattles, no movement to speak of but mine's an 04 style and Rodl's is the new dimension replica of the 04 design.