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Barefooter92
09-25-2011, 10:39 PM
Okay guys, purchased my boat with no stereo and now time to install a small quality system.

I am looking at MB Quart amps anyone have them; pros and cons?

I am looking for an ipod player with FM radio, four speakers, two tweeters, and one sub.

Any thoughts? My budget is $1K including wire, fuses, switches, ect.

Thanks
Kevin

swatguy
09-26-2011, 01:09 AM
You can get lot more bang for your buck going with kicker Zx amps. Best bang for your buck in boat speakers are the Polk Db651 speakers. You can catch them on saleat 65.00 a pair. Sound crisp and are also marine rated. Step up from that are Polk MMC651.

If you are wanting a sub and four inboats a perfect budget way is a kicker Zx 700.5.. It will power 4 Polk Db651 speakers and a sub perfectly.While Mb Quart makes some great speakers....... their amps are ok at best. Their power ratings are low for what you get from them.

If your head unit is in the glovebox any unit with the features u want and at least 2 sets pf preamp outputs is fine. If its out in the open I highly recommend going with marine rated one.

Two great places for older sale priced gear are sonicelectronics and hookedontronics.

Barefooter92
09-27-2011, 11:25 PM
Thanks for the input.

I am looking at the Sony 60ui head unit.
Looking at a sony marine amp but will look at the kicker you mention above.
Kinda set on a bazooka marine sub with intergrated amp because of location.
Open to any opinions on speakers JL, Alpine, Clarion, Bose...

Next is the wiring and fuses; anything to stay away from?

swatguy
09-28-2011, 01:03 PM
I wouldn't concentrate so much on a marine amp. You can get way more power and get way more amp for your sollargoing with non marine amps. Most marine stuff is low end and the power ratings are low. Car amps work great as long as u mount them up off the floor. I would check out that new kicker sub posted in this section. Its pretty slick design and powered with amp like the bazooka tube. Out pf speaker choices u mention Jl is definitely the best, but will cost u the most not only for the speakers but you need decent amp to push them. The Alpine Type R speaker is also a nice upgrade to factory stuff


Its called a "system" for reason. You could have the best speaker out there but cheap out on an amp or a head unit and your speaker will come no where near the highest end capabilities it has. S good head unit and a decent amp will even make avg speakers sound good.


The other question I have is are you planning on running an amp to your interior speakers, or are u just going to run them off the head unit? That will also change which speaker u should go with.
You can get a single amp that will power four cabin speakers as well as a sub and save yourself money rather than going with separate bazooka tube. The kicker zx700.5 is what I recommend. Its 2 amps built in one. One for sub and another to power 4 speakers all in one package.
Your budget is there to allow you to get a decent system so no worries on that.

Barefooter92
09-29-2011, 11:33 PM
Swat: thanks for the input. I have given much thought to your amp ideas and also starting to look at dumping the sub amp and up grading the system amp. I agree with your statement on a good system to make the speakers work well. This is why I have started learning about this before buying. I think the Sony head unit is good for 55w x 2 is that able to run two speakers and supply an amp as well? I think I need to purchase the head unit and start there.

Well I guess I have a few months before install.

Again thanks!
Kevin

swatguy
09-30-2011, 10:32 PM
No problem. Here is a shameless plug but a good deal. I have a slightly used for one season Clarion m475 for sale in classifieds. Has 3 preamps, an aux jack for mp3/ipod, and handheld remote great for starting system if you are interested. Has manual and all the original hardware for mounting. Again just shameless plug. Otherwise I think that Sony is ok unit as well.

If u are planning on running an amp to the interior speakers u won't even have to worry about the speaker wattage on the head unit and u run the speaker wires to the amp not the head unit. U just run Rca cables from head unit to the amp. Most head units are around 25-55watts per speaker. All depends.......this is where u have to decide what speaker, how many speakers and if u are going to run an amp or no amp. This will help u match things up properly. So again if u plqn on running an amp the wattage per speaker from the head unit doesn't come in to play at all.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
09-30-2011, 11:21 PM
If your bargain shopping there's deals out there, I picked up an open box premier head unit with all the goodies ipod, sat, 3 outputs, usb, and aux for 100 at car toys. If your patient you can have a killer system within your budget.

Lumbergh
10-11-2011, 07:06 PM
I am looking to also upgrade to a budget system over the winter for my 190.

Any huge reason not to go with something a bit more budget for the 4 channel amp like this:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_19566_Rockford-Fosgate-PRIME-R300-4.html

Not to thread hijack.

swatguy
10-21-2011, 11:53 PM
Barefooter,

I just recently had a chance to check out MB Quarts' new line of Onyx amps. Those have some decent power and specs and have great sound. You dont get many frills but their power ratings and sound have been rated very very well. And their price is great. They have a nice powerful 4 channel for around 165.00 The ONX 4.125 .......So I retract my earlier statement. Their original line about 3 yrs back was very under powered for their prices, but these new Onx series amps get great reviews from people.
Thats a ton of amp for 165.00
sonicelectronix has it for free shipping

Barefooter92
10-29-2011, 09:54 PM
Swat: Thanks I will check it out. Right now I am looking at two clarion amps I decided to good with the good stuff and see how the speakers react. At this time I only have the head unit but I have all winter to pick things up.

Barefooter92
01-19-2012, 01:27 PM
I took delivery of my "system" yesterday. I purchased everything from Sonic Eletronix. Great place for information and prices.

He are the details:
(2) Clarion XN3410 4ch 720W marine amps
(3) Sets of Infinity 612M speakers
(1) Set of JL Audio M100 tweeters
(1) 10" bazooka 100amp sub

with my head unit sony 60ui

Looks like I will have 90w to each speaker. Two infinity's in the bow, two infinity's and JL's at driver and passenger, and two infinity's at the back seat. I am going to put the sub in the starboard stern behind the seat.

Well...what do you think? Might need the second battery?

swatguy
01-20-2012, 10:27 PM
I am really thinking those tweeters will be lost in the open air but I am far from the expert to answer that. The Infinity's are known to be a sharp/crisp speaker so I am thinking you can get by with one amp and all 6 speakers to that. Then obviously run the tube as well. You can adjust the crossovers to get you the sharpness you are looking from the Infinity's. This will save you some cash, save u a second battery and still sound great. Again I am not the expert on the tweeter thing though, but that's how I would do it in my boat with your gear.

EarmarkMarine
01-21-2012, 09:51 AM
Its a valid point about the separate tweeters. The Infinity 612M uses a 'W' dome tweeter which is already aggressive on the highs (which can be a good thing in a boat especially if the mounting location is low). You never want to isolate tweeters from the fullrange by any distance as it tends to sound strident (like fingernails on a caulkboard). You can get away with a little more vertical separation (directly above a fullrange speaker) than horizontal separation. So if you have a dead spot in the boat that you want to supplement with some ambient highs, the key will be to either locate or attentuate those tweeters so that they do not sound detached.

David
Earmark Marine

Barefooter92
01-21-2012, 10:17 PM
thanks for the response. I plan on hiding the infinity's in the gunwales so I was worried about not hearing the tweets. Your right the tweets are a bit overkill. I plan on tucking them in the side pockets on the prostar at the passenger and driver. Anyway they are pretty cool.

I am worried about the second amp. I did not open it yet thinking I may return it. If I use it I will be pushing 90watts to each speaker. I am having trouble making a wire diagram from the deck to the amps. I have two RCA's out for front and to out for rears on the deck. Plan on using one amp for front and one for rear. How do I go from 2 RCA's to 4 RCA's on the amp?

Back to the tweets, can I dial those down individually on the amp if need be?

Thanks again - Kevin

Jeff d
01-22-2012, 12:03 AM
How do I go from 2 RCA's to 4 RCA's on the amp?


Many 4 channel amps have a switch for the inputs to toggle between 2 and 4 ch inputs. If you put it in the "2 Ch" position then it will use one pair to feed all four output channels.

I looked up a pic of your amp here:
http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/651656/big/xn3410.jpg

If you wanted to feed all 4 channels with a 2 channel RCA you'd put that "Select Source" switch in the middle "2CH" position. Then you'd plug your pair of RCAs into the CH1/2-CH-IN.

EarmarkMarine
01-22-2012, 12:18 AM
Yes, you can level match the tweeters with the input gain control on the amplifier if the tweeters have their own dedicated channels. If the tweeters are sharing channels and attenuation is required then you would do this passively with 10 watt sand resistors and BEFORE any passive crossover components rather than after. With 2, 5, 7.5 and 10 ohm resistors you would find a series combination via trial and error that would suit your needs.

David
Earmark Marine

Jeff d
01-22-2012, 12:22 AM
I am worried about the second amp. I did not open it yet thinking I may return it. If I use it I will be pushing 90watts to each speaker.

You may be able to return it and still work this out ok depending on your goals (Although the tweeters complicate things). That amp can do 2 ohm stereo. So, you can wire a pair of 4 ohm speakers in parallel to each channel (i.e. 8 full range speakers on one 4 ch amp). When you do that the amp will be putting out 165x4 (Close to double the 4 ohm RMS power). Each speaker on a channel will see 1/2 of that so you'd still be giving each speaker 82 watts.

David E can likely speak more intelligently than myself about this but your wattage on the sub seems pretty anemic compared to your full range. In well balanced systems you generally see the sub(s) being fed 5-8x what you're feeding the full range speaker(s). Following that "rule" you're giving the full ranges 90 watts each so you should be powering a suitable sub with 450-720 watts. A 100 watt bazooka would be something you'd usually pair up with 4 speakers fed from the head unit.

BriEOD
01-22-2012, 12:48 AM
I'm a little late to this party, but I'll second Casey's plug for the Kicker ZX amps. For the money, you can't beat them.

The other thing to consider is that if you start adding more than an amp (maybe two), you need to consider your power supply. Once I started adding amps, lights, and other accessories I added a second battery on an isolator, installed a 110 amp alternator, and replaced the power lead with a lower gauge wire. Don't neglect the power demand issue.

EarmarkMarine
01-22-2012, 12:52 AM
Kevin,
Is that a 100 watt self-amplified subwoofer tube?

David

Jeff d
01-22-2012, 01:06 AM
Kevin,
Is that a 100 watt self-amplified subwoofer tube?

David
He said "100 amp" but I assumed he meant 100 watt. I'm betting it's this:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7082_Bazooka-MBTA10100.html

If I'm correct that's what I'd be looking to return first. I know you said space was an issue but there are a ton of 10" subs that will fit in a .6 cu ft enclosure which is really small (Think a pair of average shoe boxes side by side) and could handle 500+ watts RMS to be "balanced" with your mids/highs.

woobiedmd
01-22-2012, 09:52 AM
Not a fan of bazooka tubes sound but their claim to fame is the sensitivity. Reading the specs it says 107db. Most subs are in the low 90's so this application doesn't need much power. I would be concerned about mounting it in the stern where a lot of water splashes around.My :twocents:!

Barefooter92
01-23-2012, 01:49 PM
Great information folks, thanks.

Yeah sorry the tube is the apmlified 10" at 100w. I dont plan on being loud, I just want clarity while under power, with a little bass. I may get the bass I want out of the speakers pushing 90w each.

I am starting to think about one amp and dumb the system down a bit to 45w to each speaker. I am worried about the double amp and the power required from the single battery. I too plan on the interior LEDs and such so if I eliminate an amp will I save on the power supply?

I was going to elevate the sub off the floor possibly mount to the side wall for the water reason. My boat stays failry dry...but it is a boat after all.

Thanks again for all the help.
Kevin

Jeff d
01-23-2012, 02:24 PM
I am starting to think about one amp and dumb the system down a bit to 45w to each speaker.

Not exactly sure what you mean by dumbing it down but I suppose you could set the gain low in order for it to output ~45 watts at full volume. Or you could just not turn the volume up that high. The amp won't push 90 watts to each speaker all of the time, only at or near full volume.

I guess you could also wire up pairs of speakers in series to each channel for an 8 ohm load.

I'd wire it up with a 2 ohm load per channel, adjust the gain properly, then just use your volume knob to control the output instead of restricting it with the configuration. That way you can always get buck wild when necessary.

Barefooter92
01-23-2012, 11:00 PM
so if I wire two speakers to one channel I will create a 8 ohm load? I do not want to do that. I like the idea of having a system when I need it.

So now if the system is two amps will I need a second battery?

All my speakers are 4 ohm individually.

east tx skier
01-24-2012, 12:06 PM
so if I wire two speakers to one channel I will create a 8 ohm load? I do not want to do that. I like the idea of having a system when I need it.

So now if the system is two amps will I need a second battery?

All my speakers are 4 ohm individually.

I have run two amps running a very similar speaker array as you with one battery without trouble. 50 watts per channel to the front and rear Polk DB speakers and an 8" Polk MM sub getting 250 watts bridged. Eventually though, I traded two amps for one 5 channel amp, which, even though it only delivered 150 watts to the sub, sounds much better and takes up far less room.

I had a bazooka in my closed bow and could never hear the thing. I replaced it with an 8 in a 0.38 cf truck box and was very pleased with the results.

Jeff d
01-24-2012, 01:33 PM
so if I wire two speakers to one channel I will create a 8 ohm load?

It can be but it depends on how you connect them. A pair of 4 ohm speakers in parallel = 2 ohm load. A pair of 4 ohm speakers in series = 8 ohm load. I only suggested the possibility of the series wiring because you wanted to "dumb down" the system and an 8 ohm load would definitely do that.

See this for a more detailed explanation:
http://www.termpro.com/asp/pubs.asp?ID=124

With a 2 ohm load (via two 4 ohm speakers in parallel) per channel your amp will put out 164 watts per channel at full volume (Assuming properly adjusted gains, good power supply, etc). Each speaker will "see" half of that or 84 watts (Edit: sorry, 82 watts).

Jeff d
01-24-2012, 01:46 PM
..if the system is two amps will I need a second battery?

The main reason for most dual battery setups is for runtime when the engine is off + isolation from the cranking battery so you don't risk being unable to start the boat.

With a pair of modest amps you shouldn't "need" it but if you want to be able to sit there for extended periods and blast music without worrying about whether you'll be able to start the boat afterwards you may "want" a dual battery setup.

Your alternator could be an issue depending on what you have. Not sure what a '97 ProStar would have for an alternator. If you have the LTR, for example, it only comes with a 51 amp alternator which would probably have a pretty hard time since I think each of those amps could potentially draw around 50 amps at full volume.

swatguy
01-24-2012, 01:50 PM
There is no need to dumb down your system at all with what you have.


Here is what I would do
Run the three pairs of infinity's. I guarantee onnce you hook them to your amo you get get all the clarity you need and wont even be considering adding those tweeters. Again these Infinity speakers are very very crisp sounding. Your amp will only need one set of RCA's per amp unless you want to able to fade and adjust diferent speakers sperartely

I would run (1) amp and wire it this way first
(run 2 speakers) off the front rt channel of the amp
(run 2 speakers) off the front left channel of the amp.
(run 1 speaker ) off the right rear channel of amp
(run 1 speaker) off the left rear channel
you
To run the to speakers you just twist the pos wire to the pos wire of the other speaker and neg to the negative. Then wire it to that front rt channel neg to neg and post to pos. This will show the amp a 2ohm load on that channel thus giving you 165 Watts split into to 2 speakers gving each speaker we'll say 82 watts. Righ on target with what they need. Same for the other set of 2.

On the rear 1 speaker will go to pos and neg of rt channel and other to the left. This will show the amp a 4 ohm load on these two channels in which each speaker will get 90 watts.

And then since you Bazooka has a built in amplifier already you just run it off a speaker line from the head unit. Bamo your're done. Again I can almost guarantee that you wont even wnat to put the tweeters in after you power them up. You saved yourself cash on an amp and the tweeters. and its sounds great.

Now tuning your stereo is a whole different animal and when you get it wired up we can talk about that

east tx skier
01-24-2012, 03:51 PM
The main reason for most dual battery setups is for runtime when the engine is off + isolation from the cranking battery so you don't risk being unable to start the boat.

With a pair of modest amps you shouldn't "need" it but if you want to be able to sit there for extended periods and blast music without worrying about whether you'll be able to start the boat afterwards you may "want" a dual battery setup.

Your alternator could be an issue depending on what you have. Not sure what a '97 ProStar would have for an alternator. If you have the LTR, for example, it only comes with a 51 amp alternator which would probably have a pretty hard time since I think each of those amps could potentially draw around 50 amps at full volume.

Yeah, should have mentioned we don't run it for extended periods with the engine off too often and have a jump starter onboard.