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View Full Version : WI - Dead in the Water - Any Help?


nauti-dreamer
09-23-2011, 06:05 PM
Ok forum members...need some help!

In lieu of searching the past threads I thought I would get better, more direct exposure with a new thread. (my apologies to the admin)

We are in the Waupaca area of WI (long lake) and have a Prostar 214 (2007) with a dead engine. Here are the symptoms.

-engine cranks over but will not fire.
-checked the electrical connections at battery and all are good. (battery fully charged last night)
-safety lanyard is installed correctly.
-throttle is in neutral
-fuel pump is priming for ~5 seconds when key is turned.

discussion with dealer over phone is fuel delivery or inadequate spark.

And of course we are on the first of a 3 day weekend at a rented cabin an 1.5hr from home. Any thoughts or suggestions would helpful.

Also called a 2 dealers in the area and neither have room for last minute service/troubleshooting.

Thanks....!

snork
09-23-2011, 06:53 PM
No help for you "nauti-dreamer"

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
09-23-2011, 07:13 PM
Pull a plug wire off put a screwdriver inbetween the plug and wire, ground screwdriver shank to engine metal, crank over to check for spark, go to auto zone and borrow a fuel pressure tester, install on schrader valve to check for pressure. Just bc the pump "primes" does not mean it has adequate fuel pressure to start, auto zone prolly has an in-line spark tester instead of the screwdriver method and it won't shock you.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002STSC6/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/190-7523011-0013326

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2011, 07:24 PM
Pull a plug wire off put a screwdriver inbetween the plug and wire, ground screwdriver shank to engine metal, crank over to check for spark, go to auto zone and borrow a fuel pressure tester, install on schrader valve to check for pressure. Just bc the pump "primes" does not mean it has adequate fuel pressure to start, auto zone prolly has an in-line spark tester instead of the screwdriver method and it won't shock you.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002STSC6/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/190-7523011-0013326

Good answer, only need to leave a small gap between the screwdriver and ground to allow for a gap for the spark to jump. take note whether the spark is a good blue spark or a weak yellowish spark.

washmaster
09-23-2011, 10:26 PM
Wow!
Sounds familiar. See next thread "dead boat on dried up lake travis"

03geetee
09-23-2011, 11:24 PM
Take the above advice and also shoot some starting fluid down her and crank, if she fires and dies you have a fuel problem. If she laughs at your attempt to start her you have a spark issue.

Take your fuel cap off also see if that helps!

JTR

nauti-dreamer
09-24-2011, 12:16 AM
Wow!
Sounds familiar. See next thread "dead boat on dried up lake travis"

Yeah sounds similar, but good to see someone is much farther in their troubleshooting than I. I think I will try the simple stuff for an hour or so and if no luck then it's back to the dealer to use the warranty!!!:headbang:

nauti-dreamer
09-24-2011, 12:18 AM
Take the above advice and also shoot some starting fluid down her and crank, if she fires and dies you have a fuel problem. If she laughs at your attempt to start her you have a spark issue.

Take your fuel cap off also see if that helps!

JTR

@03geetee: good idea. And yeah I tried the fuel cap too. No luck.

nauti-dreamer
09-24-2011, 10:59 PM
here's what I found out....

Went to O'Reilly's Auto parts to get an in-line spark tester, 8 new spark plugs, and a can of starter fluid.

Replaced all the plugs. Gave each cylinder a shot of starter fluid. (Also cranked open and re-installed the electrical connections at the fuel pump) Cranked it over and she fired right up! took it out for a good run to get it warmed up. back to the dock for a shut-down and to test a restart....started up again!

Considered a success we went about our day on the lake for about 3 hours. Brought it back to the dock. tied up to break for dinner (1.5hr) Went back out to close up the boat and crank it over out of curiosity and NOTHING! Would not fire! Cranking fine but no juice. Checked the spark on 1 cylinder and it was fine. thinking it is definitely fuel related.

Questions....There are two hoses hooked up to the pump module. The orange is the supply line to the engine but not sure what the black hose is for? Is it air pressure from the exhaust? or just an ambient air vent to equalize tank pressure? How does the shrader valve get pressurized? Is it the pump module itself that draws up the fuel and applies the pressure head?

bturner2
09-25-2011, 08:13 AM
Sounds like you have a fuel pump going bad.

I believe the black line is a fuel return line.

The schrader valve is pressurized by the fuel pump.

Go back to Auto Zone and get a fuel pressure gauge to attach to the schrader valve. You'll be looking for pressure and the ability of the pump to maintain the pressure while the motor is running.

Read through the fuel pump 101 post. Everything you need will be there.

03geetee
09-25-2011, 08:20 AM
If this test comes back ok, your next issue may be something in the tank finding its way to the pickup but I doubt it, I think turner might have it nailed. Fuel pump isnt providing enough juice to supply the right pressure, you helped it with the starting fluid to get it going, but it wont do it on its own.

Let us know what you find!

JTR

washmaster
09-25-2011, 08:36 PM
here's what I found out....

Went to O'Reilly's Auto parts to get an in-line spark tester, 8 new spark plugs, and a can of starter fluid.

Replaced all the plugs. Gave each cylinder a shot of starter fluid. (Also cranked open and re-installed the electrical connections at the fuel pump) Cranked it over and she fired right up! took it out for a good run to get it warmed up. back to the dock for a shut-down and to test a restart....started up again!

Considered a success we went about our day on the lake for about 3 hours. Brought it back to the dock. tied up to break for dinner (1.5hr) Went back out to close up the boat and crank it over out of curiosity and NOTHING! Would not fire! Cranking fine but no juice. Checked the spark on 1 cylinder and it was fine. thinking it is definitely fuel related.

Questions....There are two hoses hooked up to the pump module. The orange is the supply line to the engine but not sure what the black hose is for? Is it air pressure from the exhaust? or just an ambient air vent to equalize tank pressure? How does the shrader valve get pressurized? Is it the pump module itself that draws up the fuel and applies the pressure head?

Been there, done that. Damn intermittent problems. Mine worked and started all day today as you may have seen from my thread with similar problems. Never did replace the FP though, as it consistantly delivered 55lbs.

Black hose is tank vent, BTW.

washmaster
09-25-2011, 08:44 PM
Here's what I've been thinking about our similar problems: flaky CPS.

Why! Because the ECM had to see 300rpm from the CPS before it commands the fuel pump to turn on. The rail is pressurized (3sec) from the initial key turn and then as you continue to turn the key to start, the engine spins (obviously faster than 300rpm) but the CPS never sees it and the pump never comes on. It sputters to life for a bit because it quickly consumes the fuel in the rail from the prime.
But that's just a guess. I've had a few sputters and some where it wouldn't even do that - just crank.

nauti-dreamer
10-02-2011, 09:06 AM
For those inquiring minds, here's the skinny on what's happened since.....

Dropped the boat at the dealer Tuesday. Turns out he connector supplying power to the fuel pump was bad only providing intermittent power. That was swapped out.

Secondly, the black vent line to the fuel pump module was kinked shut which may or may not have been involved. ??? Would that create a vacuum in the tank? not sure. I would think the pump itself would be able to overpower and still supply fuel. Anyway, that was fixed as well.

They test drove it and it fired right up. I haven't been on it yet but we'll see what happens Monday.

On a side note...woke up to frost and 34 degrees this morning. Hoping to get a few more runs in before winter hibernation! "...dis is bull$hit!"