PDA

View Full Version : Motor blown up!!!?? 1008 hrs


TOO-TALL
09-21-2011, 08:17 PM
Well,

Out on the river last night perfect water perfect weather head'n to the good spot.Get to where we ride idle down and boat dies.Look at temp its about 200 no alarms,no noth'n(normal 165)I'm thinking ok I sucked up some weeds or grass.Swim under boat.
Grate intake clean.
Unhook raw water line at trans cooler little debris not to bad,Pull out impeller and its perfect,so the motor is get'n water.
Let the motor cool down.Go to restart motor.Turns but won't start.
I gave it about 1/2 throttle.Motor starts,but is running rough.Gotta keep the throttle on or the boat will die.Start to head back to ramp.Temp is right at 165.
Pull the breather tube off the valve cover and smoke is blowing out the hole.If you put your hand over the hole oil particuls will be on your hand.Pull the dipstick up alittle and smoke is blowing out the dipstick tube.

Did a compresson check tonight....and its not good.
1 150
2-165
3-80
4-30
5-50
6-0
7-130
8-30

Don't know if it dropped rings,pistons.head gaskets..or all the above

This is nuts...I'm just sick over this.

Covi
09-21-2011, 08:31 PM
I am sick over this also. I wish I had an answer for you. Any engine history out of the ordinary?

JimN
09-21-2011, 08:40 PM
Sounds like a bad head gasket if you don't see water in the oil or an oil slick coming out the exhaust. Might be a cracked ring, as an alternative.

TOO-TALL
09-21-2011, 10:25 PM
No water in engine oil.

TOO-TALL
09-21-2011, 10:31 PM
heres a short video on my FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1731742052

toolz
09-21-2011, 11:16 PM
With so many holes at low compression, I would think she got real hot, scored the pistons and stuck the rings. I would be surprised if it's only head gaskets, since both banks have problems, but if you're lucky.... Sorry for the negative thoughts, but she's definately sick. You could do another compression check with oil in the cylinders and note the difference. It won't go up much if it's the head gaskets, but should make a lot of difference if it's scored pistons. You could also borrow a borescope and take a look inside the cylinders. On the up side, at least the season's pretty much over.

Saw you pics on Facebook- I think I know a couple of the owners of those rat rods you saw in Farmer City. I live near there. Were you going to Clinton Lake?

Thrall
09-22-2011, 05:36 AM
Both cyl banks? Not good.
If you overheated bad, I'd think you'd smell burning exhaust hoses too and it's noticeable!
How was/is the oil pressure? Maybe a bad oil pump quit pumpin', scored cylinders stuck the rings. (But you wouldn't have been able to drive it any distance back without seizing it up completely). Or timing chain jumped a tooth, hence the low comp, valves not closed when pistons at TDC, but again that shoudl affect ALL the cylinders about the same.

oldairboater
09-22-2011, 07:50 AM
Roll engine to top dead center on number one and see where the rotor is in relation to the cap for number one plug. If timing has made a big jump it should be easy to tell. If timing is close then I would then pull intake and heads. It will give you a visual.

CantRepeat
09-22-2011, 07:57 AM
Roll engine to top dead center on number one and see where the rotor is in relation to the cap for number one plug. If timing has made a big jump it should be easy to tell. If timing is close then I would then pull intake and heads. It will give you a visual.

I don't understand how this would change if it was a piston/ring issue?

With smoke coming out of the breathers it sounds like a ring and piston issue.

mikeg205
09-22-2011, 09:15 AM
It was strange that there was no high temp alarm that went off prior to engine shut down. Unfortunately I agree with the piston issue...a jumped timing chain would cause backfire via an open valve... You may want to do the compression test again and make sure the valves are in the close position when testing..with firing order ...1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 cylinder 6 may have valves all the way open and the other were partially open. numbers indicate IMO that crank looks close to number 1 cylinder at top dead center. Good luck...sooo sorry this happened.....

wagskis2
09-22-2011, 10:09 AM
Some smoke and blowby out of the breather is normal on a higher hour engine-My 1999/330 hp with 900 hours has a little bit. If you have a distributer ignition, like the previous reply-start with the easy one-check that on TDC the rotor points to #1 to eliminate timing chain-though if it was off, all cylinders would be low or misfiring.
Broken rings would cause low compression, but since one is zero-hopefully it's a head gasket, especially since it's the adjacent cylinders that are low. The best way to check is a cylinder leakdown tester-that's where you are putting compressed air in the spark plug hole through a test gauge. You'll definitely hear air hissing from either the oil fill or intake/exhaust-or outside the motor, which will tell you which direction to head.
If it's a head gasket, which it sounds like, be sure to have the cylinder head crack checked and surfaced.

wagskis2
09-22-2011, 10:25 AM
A little blowby out of the breather is normal on a higher hour engine. My Prostar/330 with 900 hours has a little bit. The easy check of distributer at TDC is a good place to start, but since #4 cylinder is at 0 and the two adjacent are at 30 psi, it's my bet you have a head gasket issue. The best way to check is with a cylinder leakdown tester-putting compressed air in the spark plug hole through a test gauge at TDC of compression stroke-you'll hear air hissing through the oil fill, intake or exhaust-or outside the motor, which will steer you in the direction you need to go.
If it is a gasket, be sure to have the head crack checked and surfaced. Good luck.
I grew up near Kankakee; just about got run over by a barge learning to water ski at age 13!

thatsmrmastercraft
09-22-2011, 10:58 AM
If you don't have a leak-down tester, a quick check can be performed by bringing each cylinder to the top of the compression stroke and using an air nozzle in the spark plug hole and listen for air escaping. Won't find the small problems but will locate the big ones.

TOO-TALL
09-22-2011, 11:41 AM
Can I rent a leak down tester?..also when I pulled the plugs for the compression test they were clean no metal debris on them.some were wet with fuel others were dry...???

Rockman
09-22-2011, 01:08 PM
Troy,

Sorry to hear about the motor.

Need to get a fresh brew of the apple cider done asap to keep your mind off the boat for now.;)

scott023
09-22-2011, 01:16 PM
Sorry to hear this Troy.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-22-2011, 01:18 PM
Can I rent a leak down tester?..also when I pulled the plugs for the compression test they were clean no metal debris on them.some were wet with fuel others were dry...???

Try your local AutoZone or O'Reillys.

oldairboater
09-22-2011, 02:17 PM
It will not change ring and piston issues. It would be a quick easy check of the timing chain. Others have said do a leak down which is a good check. I would skip that if I find the timing near to correct. By pulling heads and intake I get a visual of the pistons, cylinder walls, and valves, and head gasket. Cracked heads and cylinder walls show up when exposed to air and moisture quickly once the oil is wiped off of them. No need to magnaflux. If engine has more issues then head gaskets it will show. If I had to pull the engine then I have lightened the block already. Any overhaul I would do would involve pulling the engine anyway. The choices I would be looking at is how much is salvageable. Just the way I have done things in the past a lot of times. I don't understand how this would change if it was a piston/ring issue?

With smoke coming out of the breathers it sounds like a ring and piston issue.

oldairboater
09-22-2011, 02:30 PM
Not sure how to word this. A 900 plus hour engine has seen good use and could see more good use. Once it develops a serious problem instead of looking at it as a disaster. I see it as an opportunity to build my own stronger, more dependable, almost bullet proof engine. I have a 351 in my boat. It is a great engine but there are inherent weaknesses in that engine that I would eliminate or diminish when I do a rebuild or install. 351's have potential for more and with the right builder and parts you don't have to sacrifice dependability if you build smart. Several members here have already demonstrated that before losing races.

EricB
09-22-2011, 03:14 PM
A Cylinder Leakage Tester (CLT) will help you determine where the problems lie. Regulated air into each cylinder will show where the leakage is. If it is valves, you will hear air escaping in the intake or exhaust. If it is a head gasket or crack adjacent to cylinders, you will hear air escaping to the other cylinder.
The real point of the test (and doing it) is to identify where the problems are before you take it apart. Spend some time testing and diagnosing so you know what it is (and what it is not). Test-don't guess.

wagskis2
09-22-2011, 04:29 PM
Eric's right on, find out as much as you can before you start throwing wrenches at it. From years of rebuilding engines, this elimnates surprises and throwing parts at hopefully the problem. If your compression tester has a quick disconnect, it probably has the same fitting as an air hose-mine do. Use that and set your compressed air to 30 PSI-that's plenty. Any more is dangerous-it can actually kick the motor back on the downstroke. It needs to be right at TDC of that cylinders compression stroke-both valves closed. I even will put a breaker bar on the crankshafgt bolt to hold it in place. Then just start listening for the hiss.
Nice thing about a blown head gasket-you don't need to pull the engine, they can be replaced in the boat-lots of old blankets on the seats and carpets!

ntidsl
09-22-2011, 05:26 PM
Wow...this thread rocks!!! Honestly...you guys are so cool to take the time to explain all of this. I have a feeling TooTall will be back on the water with your help. Sounds like I should be hoping for head gasket. Good Luck TooTall.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Wow...this thread rocks!!! Honestly...you guys are so cool to take the time to explain all of this. I have a feeling TooTall will be back on the water with your help. Sounds like I should be hoping for head gasket. Good Luck TooTall.

That's just the way it is around here. From the many responses, you can see there are several approaches to diagnosing where the problem(s) lie.

It is ironic in the way oldairboater put it as just last night while I was having a cigar in the garage, I was contemplating building an engine for my boat. While my engine has less than 550 hours on it and hopefully far from having a problem, it would be a fun project.

CantRepeat
09-22-2011, 06:27 PM
It will not change ring and piston issues. It would be a quick easy check of the timing chain. Others have said do a leak down which is a good check. I would skip that if I find the timing near to correct. By pulling heads and intake I get a visual of the pistons, cylinder walls, and valves, and head gasket. Cracked heads and cylinder walls show up when exposed to air and moisture quickly once the oil is wiped off of them. No need to magnaflux. If engine has more issues then head gaskets it will show. If I had to pull the engine then I have lightened the block already. Any overhaul I would do would involve pulling the engine anyway. The choices I would be looking at is how much is salvageable. Just the way I have done things in the past a lot of times.

If it is a ring and piston issue the timing would be the same. I think you are saying that if the chain has jump a tooth the rotor not pointing at number 1 would show this?

Who knows if the last guy that did the timing didn't point it a 12 oclock or at the wrong cylinder? The rotor pointing at some place other then number 1 doesn't really prove or disprove anything.

TOO-TALL
09-22-2011, 06:31 PM
Yeah even tho this sucks...I'm get'n excited to get in there and see what happened.never done a big project like thisbut have friends that are gear heads and worked in race shops so there willing to help out. Headed to auto zone to get a leak down tester.thanks for all the advice and reply
s. Team talk rocks

TOO-TALL
09-22-2011, 06:42 PM
So put the piston at the very top of the stroke to do the leak down test?? I apologize in advance for dumb questions :)

thatsmrmastercraft
09-22-2011, 08:07 PM
Top of the compression stroke. top of the exhaust stroke wouldn't work so well.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
09-22-2011, 08:51 PM
how to...
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0406_cylinder_leakdown_tester/viewall.html

TOO-TALL
09-22-2011, 11:44 PM
Well did the leak test.put in about 30 psi and had air hissing out the dip stick.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-22-2011, 11:47 PM
Well did the leak test.put in about 30 psi and had air hissing out the dip stick.

Not a good outcome. Which cylinders?

TOO-TALL
09-23-2011, 12:05 AM
I only did cyclinder #6.it had o pressure.looks like the motor is coming out.gonna start disconnecting stuff Saturday.also my damper plate is making noise so add that to the to do list

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2011, 12:15 AM
Some of the guys that have pulled their engine put down some plastic sheet with adhesive already built in to the plastic. Might do a search for that, or someone will chime in. Good luck with the project.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
09-23-2011, 12:18 AM
Ace hardware
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11808225&cp=2568443.2568451.2626210.2627543.3255266

gatorguy
09-23-2011, 10:54 AM
That's just the way it is around here. From the many responses, you can see there are several approaches to diagnosing where the problem(s) lie.

It is ironic in the way oldairboater put it as just last night while I was having a cigar in the garage, I was contemplating building an engine for my boat. While my engine has less than 550 hours on it and hopefully far from having a problem, it would be a fun project.

you know smoking inhibits osteoblasts activity. In other words smoking will inhibit bone and tissue healing. Sorry I just want you to have a good ski season next year.

Bouyhead
09-23-2011, 11:27 AM
Some of the guys that have pulled their engine put down some plastic sheet with adhesive already built in to the plastic. Might do a search for that, or someone will chime in. Good luck with the project.

Sure did Peter.Self adhesive carpet protector is available at all the big box stores.

71055

wagskis2
09-23-2011, 01:31 PM
Hey too tall,
You may want to slow down one notch-judging by the hiss in the dipstick there's definitely going to be open heart surgery, but the right heads gotta come off anyway- so pull it off in the boat, that way if you luck out with just a head gasket, you aren't paying someone to do a prop shaft alignment after reinstalling the motor-and also risk scratching up your nice fiberglass in the process. There's always the chance of a scored piston, but at least you know ahead of time how far you really have to dig. Just hoping to save you some time and $$. Both should be spent skiing.

Wish I was there, wrenching engines is almost, but not quite, as fun as skiing. Let us know what you found out.

mikeg205
09-23-2011, 01:35 PM
Hey Troy....let me know if you need any help on the repair... would love to learn the process...

Mike

NatesGr8
09-23-2011, 02:22 PM
Make sure you take plenty of pics along the way. Would really like to see what went wrong/damaged parts. Good luck.

Nate

rhsprostar
09-23-2011, 02:34 PM
Sorry about the motor man...but i am liking this thread. Can't wait to see the process.
Take pics!

gatorguy
09-23-2011, 02:46 PM
I'm thinking you should build this new motor as big as your wife will let you. Unlike me, you have a legitimate reason to make changes.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2011, 02:48 PM
Sure did Peter.Self adhesive carpet protector is available at all the big box stores.

71055

That's it! Wish the PO of my boat knew about it. He replaced the floor and carpet, then he failed to winterize the engine and had to replace. Had to do a lot of work to bring it all back to like new.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm thinking these guys might make a marine version of this if you asked real nice. If not, with a little research, you could be right there.
http://www.racingjunk.com/Street/1681426/351W-SBF-427W-Stroker-600hp-Ford-Crate-Engine.html

TOO-TALL
09-24-2011, 08:47 PM
Talking with some motor guys today.They siad maybe the inlectors went bad?? is there a way to check the injectors??

Got the motor out today pics coming.

Footin
09-24-2011, 08:55 PM
Good luck Troy, this is turning into a great thread.

JimN
09-24-2011, 09:19 PM
Talking with some motor guys today.They siad maybe the inlectors went bad?? is there a way to check the injectors??

Got the motor out today pics coming.

If the injectors went bad, you'd see that the spray isn't the normal cone that it should be.

TOO-TALL
09-24-2011, 09:27 PM
Is there a way to check them out of the motor(the motor is out of the boat now)

toolz
09-24-2011, 10:29 PM
The injectors aren't going to fail all at once, or several at once. Not a bad idea to have them checked (or just replace them) when the motor is getting replaced. Severly lean fuel mixture can cause overheat and damage, but the safety measures built in to your engine control system won't allow that. The fuel system was not your problem, IMO.

JimN
09-25-2011, 10:56 AM
Is there a way to check them out of the motor(the motor is out of the boat now)


The usual problem caused by bad injectors is bad performance, stumbling/roughness or no-start situations. If an injector is bad, it's usually noticeable, unlike a lean condition caused by improper calibration or a slight vacuum leak. If the engine ran lean, you would see burned valves, piston heads, white deposits on spark plugs/valves and other evidence of excessive heat.

To test the injectors, you would need to connect them to a fuel pump (at normal pressure) and have some way to control them. This doesn't mean that you just need to turn them on/off, you need to do that many times per second and a way to verify it.

TOO-TALL
09-25-2011, 07:05 PM
First round of pics

TOO-TALL
09-25-2011, 07:13 PM
It took me a long time to figure out how to get the prop shaft loose.After doing some research on here i found a thread titled V-drive removal and notnowgus made the tool u see in the third pic out of a streeing wheel puller.I only had about 2 inches between the gas tank and prop shaft.This tool worked awesome.

I have to admit this is a humbleing exsprance(sp) in all the years I have owned a boat I never thought I'd be removing a motor and tearing it down

bturner2
09-25-2011, 07:17 PM
You are my new hero. I hope I have your guts if/when I end up in this situation. I'm good with electrical, mechanical and will try just about any repair I have the faintest idea that I think I can handle myself. Hopefully after your posts I'd be willing to take a shot at something like this......

JimN
09-25-2011, 07:40 PM
It took me a long time to figure out how to get the prop shaft loose.After doing some research on here i found a thread titled V-drive removal and notnowgus made the tool u see in the third pic out of a streeing wheel puller.I only had about 2 inches between the gas tank and prop shaft.This tool worked awesome.

I have to admit this is a humbleing exsprance(sp) in all the years I have owned a boat I never thought I'd be removing a motor and tearing it down

If you have access to one, get a motor stand and put the new engine on it, leaving the old one on the lift. Then, remove the accessories from the old engine and install them on the new one. It's a lot easier than doing it with the new engine on the floor.

NatesGr8
09-26-2011, 09:37 AM
Excellent progress so far. Were you able to lift the motor straight out? I know on my x45 the transmission is under the rear seats and i've often thought it would be impossible to get the engine out with the transmission attached. What was the procedure for the lifting? Also cant wait to see internal pictures. Excellent job.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-26-2011, 09:46 AM
I have seen people have to take the tires off and block the trailer as low as possible to make things work. Happens on lifted trucks too.

TOO-TALL
09-26-2011, 12:46 PM
I pulled the boat halfway out unhooked from the truck and then cranked the bow up as high as I could get it this lowered the back of the boat enough to get the motor out

TOO-TALL
09-26-2011, 12:55 PM
Excellent progress so far. Were you able to lift the motor straight out? I know on my x45 the transmission is under the rear seats and i've often thought it would be impossible to get the engine out with the transmission attached. What was the procedure for the lifting? Also cant wait to see internal pictures. Excellent job.

I wad able to pick up the front of the motor leaveing the trans hanging down in the bildge.once I got the front high enough I could pick up the back and swing the motor sideways then pull it straight up.I then pulled the lift back so that the trans was still in the boat then it was just a matter of picking up the trans by hand and swinging it out of the boat

Rockman
09-26-2011, 01:49 PM
I have to admit this is a humbleing exsprance(sp) in all the years I have owned a boat I never thought I'd be removing a motor and tearing it down



Troy, I am right behind you...I think I will be doing the same to the yamaha this winter...

gatorguy
09-26-2011, 02:28 PM
Looks good so far. I hope you get some good shots of the inside.

TOO-TALL
09-27-2011, 12:04 AM
Talked to my motor guy and he is busy maybe this weekend or tuesday next week we can get into it.....I can't complain he's looking at it for nothin.So sorry guys no internal pics yet.

I did take the exshaust off tonight and pluged the air compresser into cyclinder 6(it had zero compression) ran about 40 psi into it with the valves closed and felt air coming out of the exshaust port on #8.....not good.Maybe a head gasket?
I'm really hopeing the bottom end is good or at least the cyclinder walls are ok and can be reworked...well see.

Gonna call skidim tommow and order damper plate.

Its amazing what you find when do this type of work yourself.One of the trans mounts was loose.looks like the prop shaft had been removed before I bought the boat.We'll see what else I can find.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-27-2011, 12:07 AM
Keep plugging away.:)

rhsprostar
09-27-2011, 12:15 AM
Nice work, looks great so far. Actually, it kinda looks like a MC dealership in your garage with the banner and surf board.;)
So is that rust on the damper plate? Are the springs loose?

JimN
09-27-2011, 06:16 AM
Remembering to when I worked for the first dealer, I hope this doesn't turn out to be something relatively simple, like the LT-1 I worked on that had a bent valve.

mikeg205
09-27-2011, 08:34 AM
Troy, way to go on the swiftness of getting your motor out. If my hand heals quick enough after minor surgery today (fell paint balling) and if the weather holds out, we'll get you out on the water while your engine is healing.... outstanding job by the way...

Interesting about what you found....is the rust on the damper plate normal?

TOO-TALL
09-27-2011, 08:51 PM
Yes there is rust on the plate.I also found three cracks in the damper plate.Who knows how much longer it would have lasted

mikeg205
09-28-2011, 09:26 PM
is the rust normal on a damper plate? the rust seems like the plate was dipped in water on one side...can anyone address that?

TOO-TALL
09-28-2011, 10:56 PM
Once I got the motor out and took off the tranny I can see how water can get into the bell houseing.The bell houseing is not sealed to the motor there is a thin metal plate at the bottom that covers the back of the bell houseing.If you get alot of water in your bildge the water will get in threw the plate and cause the damper plate to rust.I'll see if i can get pics of the plate tommorow.

You can see the crack in my damper plate in the upper left side of the hole.I found three cracks like this one.


More misc pics
Looking at he valve springs,rocker arms. I didn't see any cracks or anything broken.

mikeg205
09-29-2011, 03:12 PM
wow troy...you move fast... a few more bolts and you'll have the heads off...did you drop the oil yet to see if it can shed some light on the situation?

NatesGr8
10-03-2011, 04:01 PM
Any new updates? Would love to see what you found inside that motor.

psychobilly
10-03-2011, 05:51 PM
Any new updates? Would love to see what you found inside that motor.

yeah, yeah, yeah, <<<<< PB sitin in front of puter waiting fer pics :popcorn:

TOO-TALL
10-03-2011, 10:02 PM
Ohhhh yeah look what I found tonight.Blown head gasket on the 2,4,6,8 side.
some blow by on the 1,3,5,7 gasket side.
And some cylinder walls have some scoreing.
Taken the block and heads up to my buddys thursday night to see what we can do.

This has turned into a fun,intresting time. its cool to get inside a motor and see what all goes on.this my first time tearing a motor down....but Its one of those things you only want to do once in a lifetime:) :)
I keep telling myself I'm saving money,but man what a job.Also its good to have friends in the motor industry now I can call in some favors.

I figure I'm a 1/3 of the way threw this whole process.
1/3 teardown
1/3 fix and repair
1/3 reinstall

JimN
10-03-2011, 10:42 PM
Ohhhh yeah look what I found tonight.Blown head gasket on the 2,4,6,8 side.
some blow by on the 1,3,5,7 gasket side.
And some cylinder walls have some scoreing.
Taken the block and heads up to my buddys thursday night to see what we can do.

This has turned into a fun,intresting time. its cool to get inside a motor and see what all goes on.this my first time tearing a motor down....but Its one of those things you only want to do once in a lifetime:) :)
I keep telling myself I'm saving money,but man what a job.Also its good to have friends in the motor industry now I can call in some favors.

I figure I'm a 1/3 of the way threw this whole process.
1/3 teardown
1/3 fix and repair
1/3 reinstall

I'd have it Magna-Fluxed and if it doesn't have any cracks, bore it out .030" over, use oversized rings, freshen up the heads (maybe port & polish), put it back together and enjoy the extra power.

When it's apart, check the pistons, bearings and wrist pins- if they're sloppy, replace them. You may also have too much wear on the connecting rod bearings- that would cause the wear on the sides of the cylinders (as opposed to in-line with the rods).

Amazing how bad it smells in a crankcase, eh?

milehigh970
10-03-2011, 11:23 PM
I am going to go with that wear is from the gapping hole in the headgasket right there above it. Pistons sure like that oil for lubrication ;) hard to keep that wall lubricated with a waterfall above it..

milehigh970
10-03-2011, 11:24 PM
Oh and.... I love that smell.. Always have! Its the gear head in me... ;)

CantRepeat
10-04-2011, 07:05 AM
I'd have it Magna-Fluxed and if it doesn't have any cracks, bore it out .030" over, use oversized rings, freshen up the heads (maybe port & polish), put it back together and enjoy the extra power.

When it's apart, check the pistons, bearings and wrist pins- if they're sloppy, replace them. You may also have too much wear on the connecting rod bearings- that would cause the wear on the sides of the cylinders (as opposed to in-line with the rods).

Amazing how bad it smells in a crankcase, eh?

I would suggest that if he could not clean up the cylinders with a flex hone/ball hone that he just go .30 over.

Don't forget to do the same thing with your lifters as you did with the push rods, IE mark them per hole. If you end up pulling the cam that is.

mikeg205
10-04-2011, 08:31 AM
Great job Troy...what a treasure trove of information and inspiration to the rest of us wanna be gear heads....hope you find out what caused the head gasket failure....

JimN
10-04-2011, 09:17 AM
I am going to go with that wear is from the gapping hole in the headgasket right there above it. Pistons sure like that oil for lubrication ;) hard to keep that wall lubricated with a waterfall above it..

That wouldn't cause a waterfall- it would send air/fuel and any unburned gas back and forth from cylinder to cylinder. I think the piston heads would have been cleaner if water had been getting in there.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-04-2011, 09:46 AM
Not too bad so far. Keep up the good work.

ncsone
10-04-2011, 10:00 AM
I may have missed this in an earlier post, but any idea what caused this to fail? That seems like a young motor to have such a serious problem.

JimN
10-04-2011, 12:10 PM
I may have missed this in an earlier post, but any idea what caused this to fail? That seems like a young motor to have such a serious problem.

Probably a bad overheat. Low octane fuel can cause problems, too.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-04-2011, 12:32 PM
Probably a bad overheat. Low octane fuel can cause problems, too.

I suppose someone should be checking how straight all the parts are now.

Redstorm
10-04-2011, 02:25 PM
New to site! Similar to the Harley site i'm on and WoW! I've been into boating all my life and just boaght my first MC and feel secure knowing that this site and you guys are aroung to assist. Hats off to you all and good luck on the rebuild. It takes guts to jump right in and so fast!

TOO-TALL
10-04-2011, 11:38 PM
Got the motor torn down tonight and loaded in the truck headn to my buddies shop thursday.
I removed the water pump and spun the shaft it was not smooth there was a lot of hitch'n like a bad bearing.
Might be the start of my problem?
Low water flow into motor.
Heat build up on weak headgasket.....the rest is history.

mikeg205
10-05-2011, 11:39 AM
Damn....lousy failure of water pump... something to add to system check....you would think the temp gauge would show higher temps..... unless it failed right before temp skyrocketed...

scott023
10-05-2011, 11:47 AM
You're flying along on this Troy. Great work.

JimN
10-05-2011, 12:33 PM
Damn....lousy failure of water pump... something to add to system check....you would think the temp gauge would show higher temps..... unless it failed right before temp skyrocketed...

Not if no water was getting to the thermostat. It's designed to be immersed in coolant, not hot air.

This is why the impeller needs to be checked so often. Also, if any seepage is seen at the circulation pump's weep hole, it needs to be checked out. If your pump has rust at/below the weep hole, it was an indication that the seal and/or bearing was going bad. One overheat wouldn't do this unless it was really hot and if that happened, your exhaust system would have shown a lot of damage. I would feel the hoses and look at the backside of the flappers for blisters. If you see blisters and the flanges show signs of melting, it may have been an ongoing issue that was missed.

TOO-TALL
10-05-2011, 09:48 PM
Not if no water was getting to the thermostat. It's designed to be immersed in coolant, not hot air.

This is why the impeller needs to be checked so often. Also, if any seepage is seen at the circulation pump's weep hole, it needs to be checked out. If your pump has rust at/below the weep hole, it was an indication that the seal and/or bearing was going bad. One overheat wouldn't do this unless it was really hot and if that happened, your exhaust system would have shown a lot of damage. I would feel the hoses and look at the backside of the flappers for blisters. If you see blisters and the flanges show signs of melting, it may have been an ongoing issue that was missed.

There is no seepage around the hole,but there is something wrong with my pump.its really hard to turn.
Its strange that no heat alarms ever whent off.Max temp got to 220.I donno?? now it looks like i had a bunch of small issuse(ie worn head gaskets,worn water pump) building and all it took was a trigger to start the ball rolling to where I am now...maybe the trigger was the water pump.

All the paint is still on the exhaust risers and exhaust manifolds.

FrankSchwab
10-05-2011, 10:32 PM
Add to that list a loose belt. If the belt was tight, it would have turned the water pump even if it was tight - until it locked solid (kinda like my air conditioning compressor did when driving back from Lake Powell a couple of weeks ago). Bad bearings in the water pump wouldn't have kept it from pumping water - but bad bearings with a loose belt would have.

I've also been in a car that overheated badly without any indication on the gauge. Just like JimN said - the coolant leaked out, so the temp sensor was in air rather than water and didn't indicate anything wrong.

/frank

TOO-TALL
10-06-2011, 12:09 AM
The belt felt tight before I remove it.

Here's another intresting tid bit....after the boat died on the water and the temp spiked.We let the boat cool down and got it restarted.We were headn back to the ramp and the temp was fine right at 160-165ish.....

TOO-TALL
10-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Motor is at the shop now......I'll let them do there magic then get back to you guys.

wagskis2
10-11-2011, 01:38 PM
Goes without saying, but with the time and $$ you'll have invested, new engine and raw water pumps, belt and t-stat are a must. Look for sand build-up in the block-an indication that water circulation was restricted. And check the trans cooler too, maybe there's weeds or an Asian carp stuck in there.

Forrest-X45
10-11-2011, 02:07 PM
Looks like I am a little late to the party on this thread but if your costs really start to climb on your rebuild have you thought about looking into a new or better yet a used engine? Or even taking the opportunity to upgrade to a bigger more power engine??? It would most like be more $$$ but who wouldn't want more power??? :) Just adding another perspective to your situation.......
For example - upgrading to a used LY6 in perfect shape?

TOO-TALL
10-11-2011, 10:46 PM
I have new belt and water pump along with t stat ready to intsall. Good
idea to check for sediment build up.I Will back flush the trans cooler.when I dropped off the motor the shop guys said the motor guy is on vacation........so I will have to wait few more days for him to return and dig into the engine...........standing by

thatsmrmastercraft
10-11-2011, 10:49 PM
Update appreciated.
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

TOO-TALL
10-11-2011, 11:36 PM
Looks like I am a little late to the party on this thread but if your costs really start to climb on your rebuild have you thought about looking into a new or better yet a used engine? Or even taking the opportunity to upgrade to a bigger more power engine??? It would most like be more $$$ but who wouldn't want more power??? :) Just adding another perspective to your situation.......
For example - upgrading to a used LY6 in perfect shape?

Thought about hoping up the the motor or bigger motor.....for about 2 seconds.
I think it would be a whole other can of worms.
I'm looking for reliability... noth'n fancy.

mikeg205
10-11-2011, 11:57 PM
Was out today in Henry Troy...could not help but think of your engine....

mike

TLR67
10-12-2011, 08:25 AM
Kudos to you for taking this on yourself.... I too will be in store for a similar job in the near future... Kinda looking forward to it...

mikeg205
10-12-2011, 03:49 PM
Kudos to you for taking this on yourself.... I too will be in store for a similar job in the near future... Kinda looking forward to it...

madness...:firejump:

TOO-TALL
10-22-2011, 02:00 AM
Well I stoped by the motor shop.
They had my block disassembiled, man the pistons were really scratched.
They pressured tested the block and its fine.The crank and cam are fine.
Next is to pressure test the valve heads and check the connecting rods.

When eveything checks out there gonna bore the walls over from .015 to .030 whatever it takes to get the score marks out.
Then oversize pistons,rings,new bearings threw out,oil pump.timeing chain...bla,bla...
And complete valve job.
Price 1500.00 to 2 g's

I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch,but
Right now with the water pump,damper plater,gaskets,and other misc stuff that I bought.And the motor work at the shop.
It looks like I'll be back on the water for 3 grand or alittle under.Won't know a solid # till its all said and done.

mikeg205
10-22-2011, 11:15 AM
For what its worth...you can restart the motor counter....when do think it will be done?

thatsmrmastercraft
10-22-2011, 02:40 PM
Well I stoped by the motor shop.
They had my block disassembiled, man the pistons were really scratched.
They pressured tested the block and its fine.The crank and cam are fine.
Next is to pressure test the valve heads and check the connecting rods.

When eveything checks out there gonna bore the walls over from .015 to .030 whatever it takes to get the score marks out.
Then oversize pistons,rings,new bearings threw out,oil pump.timeing chain...bla,bla...
And complete valve job.
Price 1500.00 to 2 g's

I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch,but
Right now with the water pump,damper plater,gaskets,and other misc stuff that I bought.And the motor work at the shop.
It looks like I'll be back on the water for 3 grand or alittle under.Won't know a solid # till its all said and done.

That sounds a lot better than it could have turned out. Hopefully all goes as planned.

Maristar210
10-22-2011, 08:52 PM
Sorry to hear about your boat.

Regarding your facebook page?

It says you are a "machineing center operator"

Machining has no E. Sad when you can't spell your job. :D

TOO-TALL
10-23-2011, 01:20 AM
Spellinggg iz overrated:.......

mikeg205
10-23-2011, 02:30 PM
Hey Too Tall...I like yor spellin.... speciallie...yor yeller bote

TOO-TALL
10-25-2011, 09:58 PM
Was at the motor shop today.

Heads are done.
Block was bored over .02 and the new bearings are installed waiting on the pistons to arrive from fedex.
Then they can reassemble.....hopefully I can pick it up at the end of the week.I'm so ready to put this nightmare behind me .

mikeg205
10-25-2011, 10:07 PM
Are you going to put it away for the season or at least go for test ride...i winterized.....I am so sorry it happened when I was there... there's a raw water flow sensor I am researching... its up a bit in this thread...sounds like a good idea for our waters....what happened to your boat and a probability of picking up a baggy the raw water skupper has me a bit overly worried...

Can't wait to get a tow behind the yellow x2 next season... we'll have to stop at the pub under the I-55 bridge for a good reason this time....

TOO-TALL
10-25-2011, 10:19 PM
I would like to water test it asap...

TOO-TALL
10-27-2011, 10:24 PM
Motor is done I can pick it up tommorow...total bill 2037.66

-bored over .02
-new bearings
-new pistons
-complete valve job(they found one burnt valve)
-new oil pump.
-reassemble.
-prime oil system.
And i get warrenty.

Gonna install saturday and hopefully water test sunday...more pics to come.

mikeg205
10-27-2011, 11:14 PM
in the grand scheme of things not so bad.....now you have a new motor... can't wait to get a tow.

psychobilly
10-28-2011, 12:19 AM
PICS MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You had better have some dang pics picking it up and then some of it getting unloaded!!!!! :D

thatsmrmastercraft
10-28-2011, 10:23 AM
Not bad, all things considered.

TOO-TALL
10-31-2011, 11:07 PM
Picked up the engine friday after work.Got home and started reassembly starter,alternator,hoses etc,etc.
Same thing saturday finished installing hoses and put engine back in boat(what a P.I.T.A!!).

Sunday pulled boat out and hooked fake a lake engine fired right up.. I was amazed.It only ran a few minutes till water came out exshust andl I noticed a few water leaks around exshaust riser hoses.put boat back in garage fixed the leaks...then it started raining.So I had to wait till tonight afterwork to put it on the hose and let her run for awile.

Pulled her out tonight and she fired right up temp came up to 160 I let it rum maybe a hour and bumped the throtlle from 1500-2500 from time to time.She sounds great and idles good.

Doing the water test tommorow afterwork...can't wait.
Here's some more pics from the weekend.
I have alot more pics.I'll put then in a album sometime soon.

Rockman
11-01-2011, 10:15 AM
Nice Job Troy!!!!:banana:

Cloaked
11-01-2011, 07:34 PM
Troy, looks good.

.

mikeg205
11-01-2011, 07:41 PM
great job troy!!!

TOO-TALL
11-01-2011, 08:53 PM
Thanks guys.Had her on the water tonight.Ran good.

The only problem I noticed was on one of the fuel injectors there was some fuel comeing up threw the injector and out where the wires plug in.....is the sign of a bad injector??

Cloaked
11-01-2011, 09:01 PM
Thanks guys.Had her on the water tonight.Ran good.

The only problem I noticed was on one of the fuel injectors there was some fuel comeing up threw the injector and out where the wires plug in.....is the sign of a bad injector??That's ahead of my time... I'm still pumping fuel to a 4160 carb... lol... Nice thing is that you have the shop guys right there. Glad the engine is working nicely. A fresh new power plant... You'll have to get LED lights for your trailer too... :D

Phntmski
11-05-2011, 11:56 AM
Enjoyed this thread. Lots of good info. Any news on the fuel leak?

TOO-TALL
11-05-2011, 09:17 PM
I replaced the leaking fuel injector today and took the boat out on the water again.Ran great and no fuel leaks.
Only thing left ot fix is the shower fitting I broke while puting the motor back in.

I can say now everything is back to normal and this nightmare is behind me.

All fixed...just in time to winterize:) :)

NatesGr8
11-07-2011, 09:43 AM
Glad to hear you got it all fixed and back together. You've given me the courage to do this if i ever pop my engine. Now you get to sit and wait all winter long, but at least you'll have a fresh engine for next season!!! Congrats again!!!

TOO-TALL
11-17-2012, 08:16 PM
update.......

put on 115 hrs this season on the rebuilt motor.So far so good.

KahunaCraft
11-17-2012, 10:28 PM
Great thread, thank you for sharing. A few questions.

Did you replace the thermostat? I might have missed that reading ...

Did you test the over heating alarm on the rebuild? Make sure it sounds off.

Finally, what shape are the hoses in? Could it be that one of them collapsed ?

mikeg205
11-18-2012, 05:00 AM
update.......

put on 115 hrs this season on the rebuilt motor.So far so good.

Good to know all is good...ran like new when I went out with you...:D

TOO-TALL
11-18-2012, 01:11 PM
Great thread, thank you for sharing. A few questions.

Did you replace the thermostat? I might have missed that reading ...

Did you test the over heating alarm on the rebuild? Make sure it sounds off.

Finally, what shape are the hoses in? Could it be that one of them collapsed ?


Thermostat...yes it is a new oem.

Alarm.....I don't know how to test it.if someone has a idea on how to test please let me know,It would be a good idea to test it.

Hoses...all looked good.

KahunaCraft
11-18-2012, 05:00 PM
The hoses will look fine, it is when you squeeze them, the will feel softer. For the cost, I'd suggest replacing the hoses over the winter or planning to do that at some point.

As for the alarm, a few components to test:

1. the temp sensor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFHWpgHMAvY&sns=em

Also by the sounds of it, it seems to be working. Just wanted to be certain the same problem doesn't hit you twice. Remember the other environmental conditions in the cold fall are different than warm summer. Ie incoming water, air temp and your new water pump is working now.

2. The alarm buzzer. If it's the same one the rings when the ignition is on...pretty easy to test it.

3. The wiring between the sensor and the buzzer. A meter would help do that.

I'd just pull the temp sensor out of the engine, leave it plugged into the wiring harness and use a heat gun or soldering iron to heat the sensor, like the boiling water does in the video, while the ignition was on but the boat is not running. CAUTION: it sound like there is fuel from the leaky injector, so don't use a torch to heat the sensor (not saying you would). See if the temp gauge and alarm buzzer notice the heat and start making noise and at what temp.

I'd also look into whether or not a lower threshold temp sensor can be bought, to start the buzz at 185, not 200, for early warning. Many things get worn out fast with too much heat. I'd want to review the owners manual and look up the service intervals for a new motor and repeat that process with your new motor. I think 20hrs you should change oil and every 100 after that.

Above is just what I'd try, chances are, there may be a much easer way, I didn't dig too far on google.

TOO-TALL
11-18-2012, 11:41 PM
KahunaCraft,


Cool read and thanks this will give me things to do over the winter.

The leaking injector was replaced.
I have a spare temp senser I can plug into the wiring harness.Then use a temp gun to heat up the senser this will atleast tell me if the alarm is working in the dash.

KahunaCraft
11-22-2012, 10:11 AM
one final note, I saw this picture of the inside of the cooling hoses ...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=707168&postcount=8

That's what I meant by soft hoses that collapse.

mikeg205
11-22-2012, 11:26 AM
one final note, I saw this picture of the inside of the cooling hoses ...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=707168&postcount=8

That's what I meant by soft hoses that collapse.

CLoaked's hose picture surfaces again!!! yes!!!!!:D:D:D:D

JimN
11-22-2012, 11:36 AM
one final note, I saw this picture of the inside of the cooling hoses ...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=707168&postcount=8

That's what I meant by soft hoses that collapse.

That looks like an exhaust hose and the damage inside looks like it overheated, badly. That's about the only reason these go bad although if left long enough, an impeller that's not supplying enough water will do the same thing when the engine is run at high RPM.

That's just one of the other things that causes problems when someone leaves "an old impeller that looks good", but isn't.

To those people who want to recommend using an impeller for more than a year, save it- you're giving out bad information, based on your own experience of owning one, or a few boats of this type. If you want to do this with your own boat, that's fine but without seeing what's going on with someone else' boat, it's bad advice.