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View Full Version : Ballast Relay bad in 2007 X2


pjm14945
08-24-2011, 10:25 PM
I replaced the stock relays back in 2008 to get the 20 min timers. I have the Fly High sacs installed. The relays are great to fill but a pain trying to get both hard and soft tanks to empty. If the relays detect air, they will think you hit empty.

Anyway, I now have a relay that has gone bad. The starboard pump would fill but not empty. I removed the impeller and stil the pump would not run on empty. I could not hear the relay "click" on empty. I went ahead and switched 2 relays and found that the pump worked fine with another relay.

So, I need to get a new relay. Does anyone have suggestions about getting a relay that will empty well with the hard/soft sac systems? I don't want to buy the same old 20 min timer from the dealer and have the same hassles with the empty cycle.

-Pete

CantRepeat
08-24-2011, 10:30 PM
Strange behavior for sure.

The relay doesn't control how the system empties. It just provides electricity to the pump. Are you talking about some after market timer?

WESSTAR
08-24-2011, 10:32 PM
I don't have an answer for the relays but I have a fly high in our 06 Star and I always put the switches to fill when I change the valve to the fly high bags for a few seconds. Gets all the air out of the system.

pjm14945
08-25-2011, 10:25 AM
The relay acts like a switch to supply power to the pump. Since there is only 2 wires to the pump, I assume that the voltage flips to put the pump into either fill or empty direction. The relay I'm having problems with can only fill and does not empty. I've tried the relay on 2 different pumps. By switching the relays, I've confirmed that the pumps and switches are fine.

You can actualy hear the relays "click" when you toggle to fill, off, empty. The bad relay is not "clicking" when moving to empty. And that is the same problem when I move the bad relay to a different switch/pump. i.e. I moved stardboard relay to the port switch/pump. Then the stardboard is fine and port can only fill.

I know I need a new relay. The question is, can I get a better relay than the stock 20 min relays? Or do I put in 06 relays that don't have the "feature" of setting ground zero whenever air is detected when you finish emptying 1 of the 2 sacs on that pump?

Has anyone found a better relay for the 07/08 X2/Xstars?

-Pete

CantRepeat
08-25-2011, 10:31 AM
The relay acts like a switch to supply power to the pump. Since there is only 2 wires to the pump, I assume that the voltage flips to put the pump into either fill or empty direction. The relay I'm having problems with can only fill and does not empty. I've tried the relay on 2 different pumps. By switching the relays, I've confirmed that the pumps and switches are fine.

You can actualy hear the relays "click" when you toggle to fill, off, empty. The bad relay is not "clicking" when moving to empty. And that is the same problem when I move the bad relay to a different switch/pump. i.e. I moved stardboard relay to the port switch/pump. Then the stardboard is fine and port can only fill.

I know I need a new relay. The question is, can I get a better relay than the stock 20 min relays? Or do I put in 06 relays that don't have the "feature" of setting ground zero whenever air is detected when you finish emptying 1 of the 2 sacs on that pump?

Has anyone found a better relay for the 07/08 X2/Xstars?

-Pete

Hey Pete,

Can you post a photo of the relay in question? If there are any numbers on it that would be helpful too.

Jeff d
08-25-2011, 11:48 AM
Those aren't just simple relays. They are timers and relays combined with some logic circuits that monitor the current draw of the pumps and make assumptions about what's going on based on the draw. See attached.

I'm about to tear into my friend's X2 and replace the timer modules with simple relays. The Ballast Puppy pumps have built in run dry protection that we will rely on to protect the impellers. He's been having a lot of problems ever since he went to additional sacs. He installed the 20 minute timers but still has issues where the timers decide that a certain pump shouldn't be run for whatever reason.


I've been studying a writeup by another member on here but I think I can do it with 2 automotive relays per pump instead of the 3 he used here:
http://www.lockituponline.com/ballast-control-box/

See the attached diagram for what I think will work instead of 3 relays.

CantRepeat
08-25-2011, 11:58 AM
I see. I was not familur with how the newer 07+ systems were done.

If you are going to build a new system from the ground up I have a thread on wiring the relays and switches from my 06 that might be useful to both of you.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=40934

pjm14945
08-25-2011, 03:43 PM
The 20 min relay/timers in my 2007 X2 are marked with : Active Intelligence Version 1.1 Model: 18500 - 0520

The pumps are Jabsco of course.

I would love to have the run dry protection. That is great to save your impellers.

I'll look into the links you provided. Let me know of any more information you have for the better relay/timers. I also have a call into the best MC dealer guy we have in central NC. I should have more information from him early next week.

Jeff d
08-25-2011, 03:56 PM
I would love to have the run dry protection.

This is a default feature of the Ballast Puppy pumps themselves even without the timers. The pump detects the additional drag of the impeller by the amount of current it's drawing and shut itself. The main purpose of the timer/AI is reportedly to satisfy lawyers (The ironic thing is the friend who wants them removed is a lawyer). Without the timer if you had a leak in the ballast system AND left the pump to fill and forgot about it you could sink the boat. Great idea just a finicky execution in some instances.

pjm14945
08-25-2011, 04:09 PM
Thanks for the info Jeff D. I didn't really want to replace the Jabsco pumps with Ballast Puppy. If I re-wired with the automotive relays, then I'd lose the run dry protection for the pumps. That's replacing one problem with another. I'll have to think about that one. I assume this would be similar to the '06 design that is either fill or empty until you set switch to off.

What is the part number for the automotive relays? Also, any chance that 3 relay setup has two relays on the empty line where one of the relay detects the low voltage draw when the pump sucks air and then turns off? That would make sense and would warrant the third relay.

CantRepeat
08-25-2011, 04:53 PM
I think with an 8 prong Carling switch you can drop to just 2 relays per pump. I would also recommend going with the delphi water tight relays.

I do not have an 07 to work with so I do not know how the the dash works, sorry.

Jeff d
08-25-2011, 05:06 PM
I didn't really want to replace the Jabsco pumps with Ballast Puppy.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the OEM pumps are Jabsco Ballast Puppies and have been for 10 years or so.


I assume this would be similar to the '06 design that is either fill or empty until you set switch to off.
Yes

What is the part number for the automotive relays?
Here's what I'm having my friend order (6 of each):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=330-079
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=330-075&scqty=6


Also, any chance that 3 relay setup has two relays on the empty line where one of the relay detects the low voltage draw when the pump sucks air and then turns off?
No, this wouldn't be possible with that style of relay. From revisiting skeeler's (The dude who posted the instructions) posts that lead up to his final design I saw that he was given some bad info on a 2 relay setup. Someone posted an incorrect diagram which he tried then came back and said it didn't work. The 3 relay setup will work fine but won't offer any additional functionality and will just cost you more money.