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View Full Version : Remove/Replace Fuel Pickup in PS190


ChuckD
08-08-2011, 10:14 PM
I have a 1988 PS190. On hard accelerations my engine bogs on fuel starvation - I have checked and replaced many things in the fuel system including a total rebuild of the Holley 4160. The fuel pump has correct pressure and I have determined that the fuel pickup must be clogged. I have searched the forums but I cannot find a procedure to remove the fuel pickup. I have loosened the top nut but I have not able to move/budge the fuel line connector at the top of the tank. Is there a correct procedure (without breaking the plastic tank) to remove the fuel pickup tube?

~Chuck

dpcsar
08-09-2011, 01:41 PM
I just cleaned my tank and the pickup had a rubber seal between the tank and hook up. I don't know a 'correct' procedure, but I just took the bolt out and worked it out by twisting it a little at a time to get the rubber seal to separate from the tank.

Kevin 89MC
08-10-2011, 09:59 AM
i just did mine this spring, thinking it was part of my fuel starvation issue. Turned out mine was the fuel filter, but anyways back to your question. After sliding my tank out, there was a rectangular plate screwed to the tank, which held the sending unit and the pickup. I did not need to remove the plate when changing out my sending unit several years ago, but it needed to come out for the pickup replacement, at least as far as I could tell. Unscrew all the screws, and there is a bottom ring to the plate inside the tank IIRC. This will allow you to get at the pickup. A word of caution, I snapped my anti-siphon valve (the elbow on the top side of the plate) when disassembling, there did not appear to be any anti-sieze on it from the factory. Fortunately my local MC dealer had it and a new pickup in stock. I should have taken pictures. Take soem of yours if you want and I can tell you what I did in more detail.
Good lock,
Kevin

ChuckD
08-11-2011, 11:55 AM
I have uploaded a picture of the fuel tank and the connector for the fuel line. I have loosened the main nut holding the connector in place but it doesn't seem to allow the connector and the pickup tube assembly to move. I have tried to twist it both CW and CCW but I am concerned the excess force may break/crack the tank near the connector. I have sprayed WD40 on the base of the connector, perhaps that will loosen it so that the tube can be removed. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Also, I haven't removed the actual tank yet. I was hoping that this would not be necessary.

dpcsar
08-12-2011, 05:14 PM
Your is different than mine. I have the same as "Kevin 89MC" described.

ChuckD
08-12-2011, 06:28 PM
hmmm, that's not encouraging... Does anyone have an idea of what is directly below the fuel connector (on the inside of the tank). I guess what I am trying to understand is if I can continue to turn the connector or if there is some other way to get to the fuel pick up. Thanks!

JimN
08-12-2011, 06:31 PM
I have a 1988 PS190. On hard accelerations my engine bogs on fuel starvation - I have checked and replaced many things in the fuel system including a total rebuild of the Holley 4160. The fuel pump has correct pressure and I have determined that the fuel pickup must be clogged. I have searched the forums but I cannot find a procedure to remove the fuel pickup. I have loosened the top nut but I have not able to move/budge the fuel line connector at the top of the tank. Is there a correct procedure (without breaking the plastic tank) to remove the fuel pickup tube?

~Chuck

If your pickup tube is clogged, you shouldn't have correct pressure.

ChuckD
08-12-2011, 09:38 PM
I have not connected a pressure gauge from the fuel pump, however, I did check the fuel flow and was only getting a volume of about 1/4 of a pint per 10 seconds. I then disconnected the fuel line at the tank and inserted the fuel line into a seperate container of gas and the fuel flow doubled to about 1/2 pint per 10 seconds. With this info, I determined that the reduced fuel flow was because of a clogged fuel line pickup in the tank. I just can't figure out how to get to it to clean it. BTW, I have replaced all of the filters along the entire fuel route - the main in-line fuel filter/water seperator, filter in the housing below the fuel pump and also the screen filter entering the carb. I will say that I found a lot of rust/crud, etc in all of the filters and I am guessing that the bottom of the fuel tank is just as bad.

JimN
08-13-2011, 09:49 AM
I think I would slide the tank out, for easier access. It's not too difficult unless it's full. If you tap on the aluminum block on top, it may break free- obviously, you don't want to beat on it too hard but if it's a corrosion issue, it may cause damage to the threads, regardless of how gentle you are- hopefully, that won't be the case. If you find that the the thread is damaged but not too bad, pipe dope (the kind that sets up firm) should keep it from leaking.

You could also pump gas through the pickup tube from the outside of the tank, too. A priming bulb (the kind used for an outboard motor) with a short section of hose, dipped into a gas can may clear it out. Then, with the plate that holds the sender removed, you may be able to see anything that comes out. I have seen all kinds of debris in gas tanks- gummy stuff, seeds, etc.

ChuckD
08-13-2011, 04:13 PM
Thanks, all... the tank is about 3/4 full. I will siphon it out and scoot it out some. Perhaps that and removing the sending unit plate will help. I am also wondering if blowing compressed air through the connector on top of the tank would hurt anything?

JimN
08-13-2011, 07:42 PM
Thanks, all... the tank is about 3/4 full. I will siphon it out and scoot it out some. Perhaps that and removing the sending unit plate will help. I am also wondering if blowing compressed air through the connector on top of the tank would hurt anything?

As long as the pressure isn't high, it should be OK to do that.

ChuckD
08-13-2011, 08:50 PM
Just as a update... After I siphoned the gas out, removing the tank was much easier than I thought it would be. With the tank out and the fuel sending unit removed, I was able to see the pickup tube. I was never able to remove the connector on top of the tank but I was able to "fish" the pickup tube thru the fuel fill inlet. Once the end of the pickup tube was out visable, I could see why I was getting poor fuel flow. I did not see any rust or krud buildup but I did see several slivers of plastic/fliberglass which I assume accumulated during the internal machining of the tank. With all the obstructions out of the way, I look forward to tomorrow's test!

Kevin 89MC
08-15-2011, 10:00 PM
I have moved my tank out with it mostly full. Not easy, but do-able, and may be easier than draining it IMHO. You won't (or shouldn't) be able to get gas or air backward through the fitting on the tank, as it should contain a functional anti-siphon valve. That may be part of your problem, if something is stuck in yours. My local MC dealer had one in stock after I broke mine.
Good luck,
Kevin

michaeljcann
03-09-2015, 02:11 PM
Hello. New to the forum here and if resurrecting an old thread with a long story is bad protocol I apologize in advance. I have a 1995 Prostar 190 with the standard TBI. I've owned the boat for about 12 years. It has about 800 hours. I started out on this and other boards trying to chase down a "hot start" issue where the boat wouldn't restart after sitting for an hour after a session on the course. I should also mention that I had fuel problems that in 2012 caused me to replace the fuel pump and lines at a marine mechanic to the tune of about $1000. I'd like to avoid a repeat of that experience. Currently the fuel pump is very whiny which was concerning me. This past holiday weekend I got the boat out. Pulled the tank out so the pickup assembly would accessible, removed that and siphoned out all of the gas. With the assembly removed I was able to peek into the tank and see some debris (not ALOT like others have reported) which I tried to sweep out with my hand. While I was sweeping around I found a tube that ran horizontally across the tank to what I assume is a 2nd pickup which I assume had become disconnected from the pickup attached to or near the vertical tube where there was a seemingly unscreened/unfiltered/obvious nipple to attach to. (I should have taken a photo). I reattached the tube, reassembled the tank put it all back together and filled the tank about 12 gallons of FRESH 89 Octane fuel that I treated with Lucas Ethanol Defense (thoughts on this product?). I hooked up the fake a lake and started the engine letting it run for 10-15 mins with no issues. After about 45 mins I started again with no issues. Satisfied I was good for a few sets we loaded everything for a ski trip and drove down to the ramp. The drive to the ramp is less than two miles but it's steep uphills and downhills. We dip the boat into the water and start the engine with runs 10 seconds and dies and on attempted restarts 2-3 seconds tops. Not willing to risk getting family and friends stuck on the lake in February we gave up for the day. Back at the house with the fake-a-lake I could not keep the motor running. I removed the spark arrester and for the 2-3 seconds that it runs there is good spray coming out of the injectors but I somehow feel that could just be the fuel that charges up when you turn the key to ON before engaging the starter.

So right now I figure I have one or more of a number of problems.

a. My screened pickups are old and not porous enough to allow enough fuel to seep in and the only reason the boat was running is that there was an un-screened inlet in the tank.
b. This un-screened inlet allowed any type of debris close enough and small enough to get sucked up the vertical tube to the assembly at the top of the tank and possibly beyond.

So I have a few questions for you folks on the board.
a. The L shaped fuel draw line fitting at the top of the tank has a valve handle. Is this ALSO where the anti-siphon valve would be?
b. If the answer to a. is yes and I remove this for inspection and cleaning what can I use to reseal it when I thread it back into the tank? Also any tips on how to get best results when inspecting and cleaning this fitting.
c. How would you safely go about purging the fuel lines of any debris that could just be laying in there waiting to get to the fuel pump.
d. Based on another post I had removed the fuel pump for inspection and cleaning of the screen last summer. The screen did not look obstructed but then again the boat had been sitting in the garage and anything that had been sucked to the screen may have fallen back down by virtue of gravity which is why I'm thinking about purging the lines. Should I be able to disassemble the pump at the fitting so the screen could just be pushed out with a finger or punch or you have to pry it out? (remember this is a replacement pump).
e. What are your thoughts on the pickups not allowing sufficient fuel to seep in? If this could be an issue and they're not terribly expensive I'd just assume replace them. Anybody have a part # or vendor?
f. Where is the Schrader valve on this boat to check fuel pressure? I've looked around but not found it.

Thanks in advance for any and all help. I hope I can solve two issues with one fix.

JimN
03-09-2015, 06:19 PM
Hello. New to the forum here and if resurrecting an old thread with a long story is bad protocol I apologize in advance. I have a 1995 Prostar 190 with the standard TBI. I've owned the boat for about 12 years. It has about 800 hours. I started out on this and other boards trying to chase down a "hot start" issue where the boat wouldn't restart after sitting for an hour after a session on the course. I should also mention that I had fuel problems that in 2012 caused me to replace the fuel pump and lines at a marine mechanic to the tune of about $1000. I'd like to avoid a repeat of that experience. Currently the fuel pump is very whiny which was concerning me. This past holiday weekend I got the boat out. Pulled the tank out so the pickup assembly would accessible, removed that and siphoned out all of the gas. With the assembly removed I was able to peek into the tank and see some debris (not ALOT like others have reported) which I tried to sweep out with my hand. While I was sweeping around I found a tube that ran horizontally across the tank to what I assume is a 2nd pickup which I assume had become disconnected from the pickup attached to or near the vertical tube where there was a seemingly unscreened/unfiltered/obvious nipple to attach to. (I should have taken a photo). I reattached the tube, reassembled the tank put it all back together and filled the tank about 12 gallons of FRESH 89 Octane fuel that I treated with Lucas Ethanol Defense (thoughts on this product?). I hooked up the fake a lake and started the engine letting it run for 10-15 mins with no issues. After about 45 mins I started again with no issues. Satisfied I was good for a few sets we loaded everything for a ski trip and drove down to the ramp. The drive to the ramp is less than two miles but it's steep uphills and downhills. We dip the boat into the water and start the engine with runs 10 seconds and dies and on attempted restarts 2-3 seconds tops. Not willing to risk getting family and friends stuck on the lake in February we gave up for the day. Back at the house with the fake-a-lake I could not keep the motor running. I removed the spark arrester and for the 2-3 seconds that it runs there is good spray coming out of the injectors but I somehow feel that could just be the fuel that charges up when you turn the key to ON before engaging the starter.

So right now I figure I have one or more of a number of problems.

a. My screened pickups are old and not porous enough to allow enough fuel to seep in and the only reason the boat was running is that there was an un-screened inlet in the tank.
b. This un-screened inlet allowed any type of debris close enough and small enough to get sucked up the vertical tube to the assembly at the top of the tank and possibly beyond.

So I have a few questions for you folks on the board.
a. The L shaped fuel draw line fitting at the top of the tank has a valve handle. Is this ALSO where the anti-siphon valve would be?
b. If the answer to a. is yes and I remove this for inspection and cleaning what can I use to reseal it when I thread it back into the tank? Also any tips on how to get best results when inspecting and cleaning this fitting.
c. How would you safely go about purging the fuel lines of any debris that could just be laying in there waiting to get to the fuel pump.
d. Based on another post I had removed the fuel pump for inspection and cleaning of the screen last summer. The screen did not look obstructed but then again the boat had been sitting in the garage and anything that had been sucked to the screen may have fallen back down by virtue of gravity which is why I'm thinking about purging the lines. Should I be able to disassemble the pump at the fitting so the screen could just be pushed out with a finger or punch or you have to pry it out? (remember this is a replacement pump).
e. What are your thoughts on the pickups not allowing sufficient fuel to seep in? If this could be an issue and they're not terribly expensive I'd just assume replace them. Anybody have a part # or vendor?
f. Where is the Schrader valve on this boat to check fuel pressure? I've looked around but not found it.

Thanks in advance for any and all help. I hope I can solve two issues with one fix.

Does the exhaust smell strongly of gasoline when it's warmed up? Next time, open the throttle a bit and see if it starts. If so, check the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor.

Your boat doesn't have a Shrader valve it was made before they added it. OTC makes a test fitting that can be attached, but since the line from the pump to the throttle body is stainless and not flexible, you might want to take it to a speed shop to have a valve installed. IIRC, the filter on the engine is mounted to rigid fuel line and the OTC test fitting fits in the space of a filter. It's not terribly expensive.

Go to a good auto parts store that ia capable of making new sections of fuel line and get the fittings needed to allow you to connect a short section of fuel line to the inlet. Dip this into a outboard motor fuel tank (if you can borrow one) and see if it will start & run consistently. If it still doesn't want to run well, test the fuel pressure (this is normally the first test but all of the screwing around trying to make something workl will take longer than using a different tank.

michaeljcann
03-10-2015, 01:32 PM
Thanks I should have thought of this. I have an outboard tank that has just a hose nipple. Should I be able to take a piece of hose from the outboard tank to the pump and just leave the return line going to the tank in the boat? Of course don't overflow the boat tank. This should be a great test of whether or not I'm dealing with obstruction.

JimN
03-10-2015, 02:53 PM
Thanks I should have thought of this. I have an outboard tank that has just a hose nipple. Should I be able to take a piece of hose from the outboard tank to the pump and just leave the return line going to the tank in the boat? Of course don't overflow the boat tank. This should be a great test of whether or not I'm dealing with obstruction.

I would normally recommend going right to the outboard tank with the boat's fuel line, but the only bare end is at the boat's tank and it's possible that the OEM fuel line is part of the cause. However, you could check that line to see if the tank is resting on it or if it's pinched anywhere else.

If the performance started out bad and then became better after a while, it might be that the tank is resting on the fuel line- using gas would put less weight on the fuel line.

mikeg205
03-10-2015, 06:37 PM
to check the fuel pressure you will need. gm tbi SGT-37650 and and rock auto still has the fuel pump for $40.00. https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?ck[ID]=0&ck[idlist]=0&ck[viewcurrency]=USD&ck[PHP_SESSION_ID]=8mjdqbnvv2gjkmbihsvgke9fi2

michaeljcann
04-10-2015, 04:14 PM
Hi. I wanted to post an update and thank you all for the help. The boat is running and the hot start issue did not resurface after some high RPM run time followed by a 30-40 minute rest. It started right up very smooth. I replaced the fuel pump with the $40 version from Rock auto. I strongly suspect the fuel pump was the primary culprit. I had to use some fittings from the old pump. I resealed the fittings with Permatex #2 where applicable. I went through the fuel system from the tank (1st post fixing the disconnected pickup line) to the TBI inlet to make sure all was clean. With the draw line disconnected from the tank and the pump I blew it out with compressed air. I didn't see what came out but it sounded like some kind of blob. I also updated the thermostat to the 160 degree version and I replaced the coolant temp sensor. I struggled with this sensor at first. At the thermostat housing there is a skinny sensor (temp switch) and then toward the stern of the boat there is a 3/4 or 7/8 inch sensor with I believe is the sender to the temp guage. I finally figured out that the Coolant Temp Sensor is on the drivers side of the boat between the first and second cylinders moving from stern to bow.

I was NOT able to get the screen out of the old pump. I didn't want to damage it during extraction. If the new pumps don't come with them I'm wondering why it's there. Secondly, I really like the idea of the small Napa filter just before the pump. Mike G., I think this was your idea. Any update on that? Are you still using your first $40 Rock Auto pump? How many hours on it?

Thanks again all!

-mjc