PDA

View Full Version : Fuel Pump Relay


rem_pss308
08-01-2011, 10:20 AM
Last two times out. Boat runs good. then suddenly stalls out. Usually will start right back up.

yesterday would not start back up. Unless I unpluged the fuel pump relay then plugged it back in. then it would fire right up, with good fuel pressure.

after stalling there is no or little fuel pressure. But everytime after unplugging the relay it goes back to good pressure.

The relay was very hot, after a stall. almost too hot to touch.
The last time I had fuel issues. I dont remember the relay being that hot.

The boat stalled about 8-10 times yesterday during a constant 6 hours of running.

I plan on changing the relay.

Just wanted to know if anyone had any opinions , or experiances like this.

thanks

rem_pss308
08-02-2011, 04:50 PM
Anyone know how long a fuel relay should last?

Also is it normal if its hot?

Thrall
08-02-2011, 05:38 PM
Shouldn't be hot to the touch. Proabably shorting out.
They're cheap, just throw a new one in it.

bturner2
08-02-2011, 07:17 PM
Please post the part number and location of the relay. I'm thinking this is going to be another good part to throw in the tool box......

rem_pss308
08-02-2011, 10:10 PM
http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R130012

Mine is located at the front of the engine on the port side.

chico
08-02-2011, 10:26 PM
Also check the connector at the fuel pump

Thrall
08-02-2011, 10:41 PM
http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R130012

Mine is located at the front of the engine on the port side.

Available at auto parts stores as well.

Thrall
08-02-2011, 10:42 PM
Please post the part number and location of the relay. I'm thinking this is going to be another good part to throw in the tool box......

I carry one ever since one crapped out on my 190.
I usually add the part that failed to my spare parts/tool box......hope I never blow an engine!:D

bturner2
08-03-2011, 08:16 AM
I hear that. After the fuel pump failure last year my tool box is swelling and now I'll be adding the relay.

Is there an actual part number on the relay that I can use to get one at the local auto parts store or is this something I can ask for by name? I'd order it from skidim if I was ordering something else but hate to pay the shipping for a single item that I don't immediately need.

rem_pss308
08-03-2011, 11:16 AM
Bought one this morning at NAPA
Part number is : AR153SB $15.84 including taxes

bturner2
08-04-2011, 06:27 PM
Thank you..... Off to NAPA, again.

brucemac
08-04-2011, 07:04 PM
these are not engine specific are they? aren't there more than one on some models? or am i confusing this? rear of the engine on mcx v-drive, right?

rem_pss308
08-04-2011, 09:35 PM
Mine is a LTR its a v drive. If you need a picture I can take one.

JimN
08-04-2011, 10:38 PM
I hear that. After the fuel pump failure last year my tool box is swelling and now I'll be adding the relay.

Is there an actual part number on the relay that I can use to get one at the local auto parts store or is this something I can ask for by name? I'd order it from skidim if I was ordering something else but hate to pay the shipping for a single item that I don't immediately need.

Yes, there's a part number on the relay. Bosch and Potter & Brumfeld make them but make sure to get the one with a diode for impulse suppression.

bturner2
08-05-2011, 04:48 PM
Just got off the water after a bit of a scare. I'm in Canada on Lake Erie for a quick vacation and took a nice board run with the wife driving. We're about 12 miles from the ramp at the corner of "No and Where". Got in the boat and was aboot (thought I would throw in some Canadian there ehh) to head out Turn the key to start the engine and nothing. For a moment I thought for sure Murphy's Law was about to get me for not picking up a relay before going on vacation. I quickly noticed the wife turned the boat off with the shifter in gear. But just for a couple seconds.......

Note to self, find out if there are NAPAs in Canada.

Smitty
08-05-2011, 07:26 PM
I'm having the exact same problem with my boat. Fuel pump was replaced last year and I'm still having stalling problems. Where do I find the relay? (2005 Maristar 210)

rem_pss308
08-06-2011, 04:39 PM
I'm having the exact same problem with my boat. Fuel pump was replaced last year and I'm still having stalling problems. Where do I find the relay? (2005 Maristar 210)

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R130012

JimN
08-06-2011, 06:29 PM
I'm having the exact same problem with my boat. Fuel pump was replaced last year and I'm still having stalling problems. Where do I find the relay? (2005 Maristar 210)

Why don't you monitor the fuel pressure while it's running, instead of jumping to conclusions? DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what fuel pressure gauges are for. Slamming parts in is a good way to waste a lot of money and get to the point of completely hating your boat. Learning to troubleshoot speeds up the process considerably and will keep you on the water.

Smitty
08-10-2011, 08:44 PM
Here's a good question: How much does it cost to buy the equipment to measure the DATA? Thanks for the all caps response. I prefer not be be yelled at in the replies.

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 12:27 AM
Here's a good question: How much does it cost to buy the equipment to measure the DATA? Thanks for the all caps response. I prefer not be be yelled at in the replies.

What caps? i dont see anyone yelling?

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 10:14 AM
Yes, there's a part number on the relay. Bosch and Potter & Brumfeld make them but make sure to get the one with a diode for impulse suppression.


JimN how can you tell if it has the diode?

The guys at NAPA cross refferanced the part number of the original. which is just like the one from skidim.

still havent run the boat to see if that was the problem.
hopefully this weekend.

JimN
08-11-2011, 10:57 AM
JimN how can you tell if it has the diode?

The guys at NAPA cross refferanced the part number of the original. which is just like the one from skidim.

still havent run the boat to see if that was the problem.
hopefully this weekend.

Bosch and other relay makers have a chart with the part numbers. It will/should show the diode on the diagram on the cover on the relay, too.

Otherwise, look on the original part and google the part number.

A Bosch 8020 relay will work for the fuel pump or other devices but the voltage spikes will cause the ECM to lock up, reset or whatever. Microprocessors don't do well with voltage spikes.

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 11:24 AM
thanks, definatly dont want any ecm problems, already had to replace that once.

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 11:31 AM
Can you tell me if this one has a diode

JimN
08-11-2011, 11:58 AM
Can you tell me if this one has a diode

Any company name on the relay? If not, it's not shown on the diagram.

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 12:05 PM
I didnt see anything on it that looked like a diode either. It was a picture of one I found.

I will look at the one I have from NAPA when I get home this evening.

I will probably go ahead and order the one from skidim just to make sure.

its the same part number as the one that came out of the boat.

JimN
08-11-2011, 12:47 PM
I didnt see anything on it that looked like a diode either. It was a picture of one I found.

I will look at the one I have from NAPA when I get home this evening.

I will probably go ahead and order the one from skidim just to make sure.

its the same part number as the one that came out of the boat.

Electronic devices can be tested for proper connection- what makes you think the relay is bad? If it's a hunch, stop guessing and use a multi-meter to verify its connections and functionality. A relay won't go bad unless you have used it with a high-current device when the battery is depleted or if the device draws so much current that the fuse blows quickly and repeatedly. If this has never happened, I seriously doubt your relay is bad. If you don't know how to test a relay, it's gonna be a long, hard road before you find the answers.

The diagram on the side shows what makes contact and when. Normally, pin 30 is connected to 87a. When you energize the coil (it's basically similar to the grade school experiment where you wrap wire around a nail and connect the wire ends to a battery, to make an electro-magnet), the relay toggles so pin 30 connects to pin 87.

To test a relay, connect a multi-meter, set to Ohms and connection verified by touching the tips of the leads together so see how low it reads, to pins 85 and 86. You should see a resistance number in the hundreds of Ohms. If you see OL or no change, the coil may be bad. If this reading changes after making the connection, check the resistance from pins 30 to 87a- it should be the same as when you touch the leads together. If it reads open, it shouldn't be a problem because that connection isn't used. If this tests good, connect pins 85 and 86 to a battery- you should hear the relay click. At this point, connect the leads to pins 30 and 87- it should now be the same as when you touch the leads together. If it shows OL, it's bad. If it shows the same as the connection from pin 30 to 87a and touching the leads together, the relay isn't bad and buying a new one is a waste of time and money.

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 12:59 PM
The last time I was out. The boat died a few times. I had this problem before, I finally found out the relay was not getting a good connection with the plug. I had to install a new plug. it worked great for a long time.

Lately when it dies. there is no fuel pressure( gauge ) I found that if I unplug the relay, and plug it back in. then I will have fuel pressure.

The relay was hot to the touch. which I think it should not be.

so yes. Im guessing the relay is bad.

JimN
08-11-2011, 02:31 PM
The last time I was out. The boat died a few times. I had this problem before, I finally found out the relay was not getting a good connection with the plug. I had to install a new plug. it worked great for a long time.

Lately when it dies. there is no fuel pressure( gauge ) I found that if I unplug the relay, and plug it back in. then I will have fuel pressure.

The relay was hot to the touch. which I think it should not be.

so yes. Im guessing the relay is bad.

The relay being hot is the result of the actual problem. I posted that running the engine when the battery is depleted can drop the voltage and cause everything to run hotter but it's not only the low battery that can cause voltage drop. If the grounds at the back of the engine are dirty/corroded, the same thing will happen and if it's bad enough, that one spot could be the cause of all of your boat's problems. By removing/replacing the relay, a bad terminal can be made to connect better, too. If the relay plug is sealed, or not, the wire may be corroded or have broken strands- these will cause voltage drop, too. Voltage drop causes current to increase and that means it will be hotter.


Measure the resistance from the relay negative to the ground wires at the rear of the engine- the whole engine harness is grounded there and a few of the grounds are shared by more than one sensor. If you measure more than about .1 Ohms, find out why.

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 02:41 PM
Thanks JimN I will do that.

It wasnt too long ago I took the grounds loose and cleaned them. but I havent driven the boat that much this later part of summer.

JimN
08-11-2011, 02:43 PM
Thanks JimN I will do that.

It wasnt too long ago I took the grounds loose and cleaned them. but I havent driven the boat that much this later part of summer.

OK- and as I have posted many times, all ground points need to be referenced to the battery posts, not the terminals.

Even in a well-crimped terminal or battery cable clamp, resistance can build up and if it does, starters fail, voltages drop and things go wrong. This is one reason engine covers and motor boxes need to be propped open over long storage periods and adequate ventilation is absolutely necessary. Also, as soon as a cable clamp or battery terminal is cleaned, it starts to oxidize. Silicone grease is a good way to delay this.

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 02:47 PM
OK- and as I have posted many times, all ground points need to be referenced to the battery posts, not the terminals.

meaning check them against what the battery post shows. cause the terminal might have a lower reading?

rem_pss308
08-11-2011, 10:10 PM
Did a quick check tonight.

.001 between relay and bolt where all the grounds are located on motor

Smitty
08-12-2011, 10:52 PM
Would you consider fuel pump issues to be general enough that a local marina/boat repair shop could look at it, or would you insist that it be done by a certified MC dealer?

rem_pss308
08-12-2011, 11:40 PM
If its somthing I cant figure out. then i would take it to a mastercraft service center.

rem_pss308
08-21-2011, 10:00 AM
Installed new relay, and also cleaned the battery terminals, and connections at motor. ran boat yesterday. did not shut off once. so hopefully is fixed.

Thanks again as usual JimN You are awsome.

tcgottarun
09-28-2011, 08:51 PM
After reading the numerous posts about the intermittent stalling, I too am a victim. Long story short I replaced my fuel pump to realize that it wasnt the problem. I then replaced the relay with the Napa AR153SB, which solved my problem for about 2 months. The stalling started again. I went to Napa to get the same relay however they did not have the relay in stock. They did have the AR153 (Echlin) relay. The guy at the counter said the SB was the lessor of quality and that the AR153 was made with better components. I paid $38.00 for the relay. Installed the relay and ran the boat through the course for about 30 min. at speeds of 21.3-36 mph. The boat ran great. The big question is what is causing this relay to fail? By the way, all of the posts regarding this issue have been great and very informative. Thank you!

rem_pss308
09-29-2011, 02:36 PM
tcgottarun, I am no expert. I have a very simple knowledge of mechanical workings. and very little about electrical stuff. I can read a fuel gauge, a volt meter, and do simple tests. if I know what Im looking for.

I had cleaned all my connections about 6 months ago. So I didnt think that it could be that. I knew it wasnt gitting fuel pressure cause of the gauge reading. I then tested at the fuel gauge plug. and had no power. Just by luck when I unplugged my relay it started working.
So Upon JimN's advise of it might be a ground problem. and the ground problem might cause the relay to be hot. I cleaned all conections again.
I dont know if it was the connections, or the relay, cause I changed it with a new one at the same time. But it has run fine since I have done both.

again with JimN's advise from another post. When I come home, I leave the motor cover open so what water , and miosture is in the bilge. can dry. because he had made a good point that with the engine cover closed. corrosion starts right then.