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View Full Version : Reversing the v drive rotation? How do I?


stennes
07-25-2011, 11:50 AM
Ok I got my new prop for my 03 X30 put it on, and wow! Reverse is forward and forward is reverse. I just got off the phone with Eric at OJ and he said I need to reverse the linkage? I guess I have one of those non converted MC's, I can't imagine it's that hard? His suggestion was my MC dealer, but their about 3 hours away, so we thought we'd start here. Anyone do this before? What's involved and what do I need to know?
Thanks,
Mike

east tx skier
07-25-2011, 12:17 PM
Are you trying to run a rh rotation prop on a MC?

FourFourty
07-25-2011, 12:30 PM
That doesnt really sound right to me.... I thought the V-drive gearbox's used planatary gears.... Which would make the reverse ratio different than the foreward ratio. If you reversed the direction of it, your reverse ratio would be your new foreward ratio.

I might have it all wrong, but it doesnt seem like the right fix to me. I would make sure the prop that you got is LH rotation.

ahhudgins
07-25-2011, 12:31 PM
Are you trying to run a rh rotation prop on a MC?

I thought this was a joke at first. If this problem started AFTER changing props, I would put the old prop back on and then order the correct one. Then maybe flip the motor around (just joking).

stennes
07-25-2011, 12:58 PM
I thought this was a joke at first. If this problem started AFTER changing props, I would put the old prop back on and then order the correct one. Then maybe flip the motor around (just joking).

Eric told me some older Mastercraft V drives rotated opposite of what the have now? I'm completely confused, I put my old prop on, but the correct rotation I need is pitched wrong for a wakeboard boat. He said Mastercraft concerted most all the old ones to right hand? He said they didn't do it long enough for OJ to make up new ones. My thought also was the ratio would be wrong but when it comes to prop, rotations, etc I'm clueless!

bigmac
07-25-2011, 01:00 PM
Wow. That's a new one on me. If it were anyone other than Eric, I'd discount the whole story.

JohnE
07-25-2011, 01:20 PM
IK've never heard of changing the rotation of the gearbox. Why don't you just get the correct prop? If Eric doesn't produce it, I'm sure the other company does. I did hear of early XStars having reverse rotation from every other MC. Never heard it about an X30.

stennes
07-25-2011, 01:27 PM
IK've never heard of changing the rotation of the gearbox. Why don't you just get the correct prop? If Eric doesn't produce it, I'm sure the other company does. I did hear of early XStars having reverse rotation from every other MC. Never heard it about an X30.

What did they do, run them or switch them? Eric does make it, but he said their for the twin engine line, and the pitch is all wrong and I would hate it. I thought about acme but if I did that what do I do with a used perfect prop with less than ten minutes on it?

stennes
07-25-2011, 01:28 PM
Wow. That's a new one on me. If it were anyone other than Eric, I'd discount the whole story.

Exactly my thoughts!

stennes
07-25-2011, 01:30 PM
Are you trying to run a rh rotation prop on a MC?

At this point I'm not even sure what I'm trying to do, or which rotation I have now bs what I need? My head hurts.

Thrall
07-25-2011, 02:08 PM
This requires some input from Eric OJ or JimBAWS.
I've never heard of a RH rotation MC either.
Wouldn't that mess up rudder offset or rudder design. etc? Or is everything 100% symmetrical?

MIskier
07-25-2011, 02:14 PM
An easy way to tell which direction prop you have is to look at where the blades join the hub, if the blades point in to the right it is a rh prop, if they point to the left its a lh prop.

I have never heard of an opposite rotation MC that was that new. The x-stars that had reverse rotation were all development boats.

stennes
07-25-2011, 02:19 PM
This requires some input from Eric OJ or JimBAWS.
I've never heard of a RH rotation MC either.
Wouldn't that mess up rudder offset or rudder design. etc? Or is everything 100% symmetrical?

Well after getting off the phone with the service manager of Boise Mastercraft, he said it was the only Indmar V drive that can go either way. He said all I need to do is remove the throttle quadrant, change the pin location and I'm good to go. Worse thing he said is, now my surf wake will be on the right side bs the left side, and docking the rear will swing right instead of left. He said some people hate it, others like it since it puts the drivers side into the dock, which doesn't have people climbing over the seats. To me I'm not worried my docking skills suck anyway, and I don't surf much, plus when I get a newer MC I won't have to relearn.

ttu
07-25-2011, 02:21 PM
why not just order the correct prop? really confused with this one.:confused:

woodrowskis
07-25-2011, 02:32 PM
there should be a tag on the transmission telling you the ratio. You can at least pin that down easily to know if switching is a good idea. should say any there from 1.00:1 up to 1.50:1

I have always wondered, does reverse have any ratio at all? Anybody know?

deminimis
07-25-2011, 02:35 PM
Worse thing he said is, now my surf wake will be on the right side bs the left side, and docking the rear will swing right instead of left.

Sweet, you're the surf boat now. Where abouts are you on the Mighty Columbia? I may have seen you on Saturday -John Day/Columbia???

stennes
07-25-2011, 02:51 PM
An easy way to tell which direction prop you have is to look at where the blades join the hub, if the blades point in to the right it is a rh prop, if they point to the left its a lh prop.

I have never heard of an opposite rotation MC that was that new. The x-stars that had reverse rotation were all development boats.

Me either, but I have heard it from both the service manager of Boise MC and Eric at OJ.

bturner2
07-25-2011, 02:52 PM
I did this two years ago on a 03 X2 (I believe I posted on this). It is pretty easy depending on how your throttle control is mounted.

So all you have to do is take off the panel the throttle is mounted on. There will be a throttle and shift cable attached to a bell crank. The bell crank will have two ears (one pointing up the other pointing down). You'll want to move the cable from whatever side it's on now to the other side, put it all back together and that's it. You're done. Sounds pretty easy right? And it would be except it's a boat and that portion of the boat isn't really made to come apart so everything is going to be difficult to get to and tight. All in all I believe this was like a 2 hour, 3 beer (due to the frustration level) job.

stennes
07-25-2011, 02:53 PM
why not just order the correct prop? really confused with this one.:confused:

Your confused:eek:, because all that OJ make are to steep, and I wouldnt like them is what Eric said.

stennes
07-25-2011, 02:54 PM
Sweet, you're the surf boat now. Where abouts are you on the Mighty Columbia? I may have seen you on Saturday -John Day/Columbia???

Right above Wells Dam, right below Chief Joe.

stennes
07-25-2011, 02:55 PM
there should be a tag on the transmission telling you the ratio. You can at least pin that down easily to know if switching is a good idea. should say any there from 1.00:1 up to 1.50:1

I have always wondered, does reverse have any ratio at all? Anybody know?

According to Boise MC, this is the only Indmar transmission that can either way, with no problems. I specificly asked him about ratios.

bturner2
07-25-2011, 02:56 PM
Found it!

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=23283

stennes
07-25-2011, 02:56 PM
I did this two years ago on a 03 X2 (I believe I posted on this). It is pretty easy depending on how your throttle control is mounted.

So all you have to do is take off the panel the throttle is mounted on. There will be a throttle and shift cable attached to a bell crank. The bell crank will have two ears (one pointing up the other pointing down). You'll want to move the cable from whatever side it's on now to the other side, put it all back together and that's it. You're done. Sounds pretty easy right? And it would be except it's a boat and that portion of the boat isn't really made to come apart so everything is going to be difficult to get to and tight. All in all I believe this was like a 2 hour, 3 beer (due to the frustration level) job.

LOL, no kidding, only on a boat does everything take twice as long, for something twice as easy.

deminimis
07-25-2011, 03:01 PM
Clearly wasn't you. Like that cold water up there, do ya? At least your water isn't radioactive like here.

stennes
07-25-2011, 03:05 PM
Found it!

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=23283

Awesome thanks, wonder why they did change this on all X's which from the thread, it was more of a X10-X30 problem? It also makes me wonder if this will be a problem being I have a X30? What were the 04 X30s? Then again, since the only props available are NOT recommended by Eric at OJ, I guess its a moot point?

scott023
07-25-2011, 03:07 PM
Wow. That's a new one on me. If it were anyone other than Eric, I'd discount the whole story.

I agree completely.

bturner2
07-25-2011, 03:08 PM
Believe it or not I found out the hard way the first time I took it out. The orginal prop was damaged and I just call Eric and got another one. Put it on and went to the lake only to find out everything was backwards. I ran it for a little while then put it bakc on the trailer until I could sort things out.

The boat had sat for 3 years, had only like 75 hours but also had a ton of little problems. Spent the whole summer fixing them only to have the wife tell me she wanted one of the newer pickle fork X2s. Who was I to argue. Sold the boat the next spring. Someone got a nice boat that's for sure.

stennes
07-25-2011, 03:08 PM
Clearly wasn't you. Like that cold water up there, do ya? At least your water isn't radioactive like here.

Fricken hate the cold water, usually its nice and warm, but with Grand Coulee, and Chief Joe spilling huge amounts of water, and everything running in being fresh snow melt, its all cold, Roosevelt, Rufus Woods which are usually warmer than here. I have apple orchards up here, and we have property, right above the Wells, (I can see it from my kitchen) and their right on the water, I have learned to adapt.

scott023
07-25-2011, 03:08 PM
What did they do, run them or switch them? Eric does make it, but he said their for the twin engine line, and the pitch is all wrong and I would hate it. I thought about acme but if I did that what do I do with a used perfect prop with less than ten minutes on it?

Eric woun't take it back???

stennes
07-25-2011, 03:10 PM
Believe it or not I found out the hard way the first time I took it out. The orginal prop was damaged and I just call Eric and got another one. Put it on and went to the lake only to find out everything was backwards. I ran it for a little while then put it bakc on the trailer until I could sort things out.

The boat had sat for 3 years, had only like 75 hours but also had a ton of little problems. Spent the whole summer fixing them only to have the wife tell me she wanted one of the newer pickle fork X2s. Who was I to argue. Sold the boat the next spring. Someone got a nice boat that's for sure.

Hey, thats where I'm at, same story, by time I sell this boat, someone will have a very nice boat. My wife hates it though, she said its jnyxed!

stennes
07-25-2011, 03:12 PM
Eric woun't take it back???

Yes, but his point was, there isnt any thing else available, not that I would like, he said the stocker is better than whats available, since it was such a short run, no one developed any props for it.

bturner2
07-25-2011, 03:14 PM
Awesome thanks, wonder why they did change this on all X's which from the thread, it was more of a X10-X30 problem? It also makes me wonder if this will be a problem being I have a X30? What were the 04 X30s? Then again, since the only props available are NOT recommended by Eric at OJ, I guess its a moot point?

I was told that they felt the boat when weighted and using a larger diameter prop had a better wake with the counter rotation. What I found is that my boat listed bad and steered poorly to the right. So bad that I was ready to sell it that day. Switching the prop and later switching the rudder made a huge difference and was the end of my handling/steering problems.

Unfortunately the boat trailer had the bad Reliable calipers and grounding issues with the gauges. I got free loaded calipers from Reliable which fixed the trailer brakes and got about 90% of the grounding problems sorted out before selling the boat.

O2BESOHUGE
07-25-2011, 03:17 PM
Dang! I Would Have Loved Seeing You Pull Someone Through The Slalom Course With The Boat Backwards!! :)

Glad You Fixed It!

scott023
07-25-2011, 03:17 PM
Yes, but his point was, there isnt any thing else available, not that I would like, he said the stocker is better than whats available, since it was such a short run, no one developed any props for it.

This situation is more than a little confusing...

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2011, 03:27 PM
Dang! I Would Have Loved Seeing You Pull Someone Through The Slalom Course With The Boat Backwards!! :)

Glad You Fixed It!

Sounds like when I installed the new helm on my boat last year and threaded the steering cable in backwards.:D

bigmac
07-25-2011, 03:40 PM
Looking into this a little more, the rumor is that indeed, for some reason, MasterCraft made a limited number of RH prop boats in the 2003 model year. And apparently that Hurth ZF-63IV 1.5:1 reduction V-drive transmission works fine in either rotation direction (strictly mechanical, no torque converter). So, I'm guessing that Eric's advice is good or at least worth a try. Now, removing the throttle quadrant is no picnic since you have to remove the side panel it's mounted on (you'll need very long arms). I would seriously consider calling Indmar and ask them about it. They may know since the engine/transmission came from them, and they might be able to confirm the theory. You could call MasterCraft, but in my experience Indmar is more helpful for these kinds of customer inquiries. You could also try PM'ing EngineNut.

stennes
07-25-2011, 03:43 PM
I was told that they felt the boat when weighted and using a larger diameter prop had a better wake with the counter rotation. What I found is that my boat listed bad and steered poorly to the right. So bad that I was ready to sell it that day. Switching the prop and later switching the rudder made a huge difference and was the end of my handling/steering problems.

Unfortunately the boat trailer had the bad Reliable calipers and grounding issues with the gauges. I got free loaded calipers from Reliable which fixed the trailer brakes and got about 90% of the grounding problems sorted out before selling the boat.

Really, my fricken trailer brakes are totally effed up! I have my grounding issues cleared up, it had a engine overheat almost fire, have all those issues worked out, now the prop rotation and trailer, I should be good to go. I did install the 06 X30 rudder which is larger than the 05 and older rudder, which made a huge differance.

Jim@BAWS
07-25-2011, 03:49 PM
This requires some input from Eric OJ or JimBAWS.
I've never heard of a RH rotation MC either.
Wouldn't that mess up rudder offset or rudder design. etc? Or is everything 100% symmetrical?

Run the boat with what is was designed for...a left hand rotation prop.

Easy way to tell. With the back of the prop facing you. In other words. looking at the prop mounted on the shaft. Grab the prop. If it fits in your left had properly...left hand rotation...right had will be the same in your right hand


Jim@BAWS

Jim@BAWS
07-25-2011, 03:51 PM
According to Boise MC, this is the only Indmar transmission that can either way, with no problems. I specificly asked him about ratios.

PS...INDMAR does not make transmissions. You probably have a HURTH V Drive
INDMAR purchases transmissions for there engines from Hurth

Jim@BAWS

kskonn
07-25-2011, 05:17 PM
Awesome thanks, wonder why they did change this on all X's which from the thread, it was more of a X10-X30 problem? It also makes me wonder if this will be a problem being I have a X30? What were the 04 X30s? Then again, since the only props available are NOT recommended by Eric at OJ, I guess its a moot point?

I have an 03 X30 and I went with an acme machined prop, it is awesome.

east tx skier
07-25-2011, 05:47 PM
This requires some input from Eric OJ or JimBAWS.
I've never heard of a RH rotation MC either.
Wouldn't that mess up rudder offset or rudder design. etc? Or is everything 100% symmetrical?

Some of the CC vdrives are LH rotation while the direct drives (at least of the modern era) are RH. My first thought was maybe we had confused brands momentarily.

stennes
07-25-2011, 06:19 PM
Run the boat with what is was designed for...a left hand rotation prop.

Easy way to tell. With the back of the prop facing you. In other words. looking at the prop mounted on the shaft. Grab the prop. If it fits in your left had properly...left hand rotation...right had will be the same in your right hand


Jim@BAWS

I thought that at first, but if MC makes the change (or did) what's the down size? My original prop is toast I straightened it as best I could for testing the boat out. My boat was moored on my dock and the let the water down, left it high and dry one prop get a pretty good bow in it. Eric said it can be straigtened but why when this new one is much better than the old one?

stennes
07-25-2011, 06:22 PM
I have an 03 X30 and I went with an acme machined prop, it is awesome.

I could send it back, but I'd be out the cost of over night shipping, plus return shipping. Since it's a fairly simple switch, I might as well flip the pins and keep it, plus I need to fix that part of the interior anyway, I replaced all the rest of the skins, but that piece has a couple broken screw holes which are a easy fix, I just never felt like removing it to fix it, now I have to.

André
07-25-2011, 09:18 PM
Easy way to tell. With the back of the prop facing you. In other words. looking at the prop mounted on the shaft. Grab the prop. If it fits in your left had properly...left hand rotation...right had will be the same in your right hand


Jim@BAWS
That's a good trick for EVERYONE to know!
Should be in the FAQ section.
Thanks Jim,you're really an awsome MC dealer a great contributor to this forum!:)

east tx skier
07-25-2011, 09:53 PM
I thought that at first, but if MC makes the change (or did) what's the down size? My original prop is toast I straightened it as best I could for testing the boat out. My boat was moored on my dock and the let the water down, left it high and dry one prop get a pretty good bow in it. Eric said it can be straigtened but why when this new one is much better than the old one?

What I believe Jim is saying is that the hull was designed for a LH rotation prop. Reading the link above, it seems that the RH rotation made the wake less desirable and made it hard to turn to the right among other things. It was an experiment that didn't work out apparently.

Kyle
07-25-2011, 10:19 PM
I may be totally out of line here but I've been through many transmissions. I have never seen one with the same reverse clutches as the drive clutches, or reverse or drive clutch packs being the same size, or the amount of clutches in the packs being the same quantity. I also have not seen the same gear ratio in reverse as forward either.

I don't have a schematic infront of me to make 100% sure if this is ok so a correction is welcome. If the front pump is put on 180* off in the transmission, the tranny will spin the opposite way because the fluid would run the opposite way through the valvebody. where I'm unsure is if the drive clutches become reverse and the reverse becomes the drive inside the tranny. I would need to look at my shop manual. If that was the case then the pump could be turned 180* and the tranny would use drive and reverse normally. The opposite rotation of prop would then spin correctly without damaging anything in the transmission.


Another thing is the rudder would be in a different location as mentioned above. If this is the case you are wasting time and need to stay with a stock prop. With the rudder being off center in the first place now it could be off center on the wrong side with the new prop.

I think that would be like someone trying to run with two left legs instead of a left leg and a right leg. You can still run but not as well.

Post some pics of the rudder vs prop on your boat.

SpryBeast
07-25-2011, 10:31 PM
My '03 X30 was RH from the factory too. It's now LH and took about an hour to swap the linkage.

bturner2
07-26-2011, 08:08 AM
I did a ton of research on this when I ran into this problem on my 03 X2 three years ago.

Let's start with the trans.....
If you take the model number of the trans and go to the manufacturer's site you'll find that this model is universal and runs in either direction just like a ballast pump. Believe me I ran mine in the opposite direction for over 50 hours without any problems after making the change. Here's the link to the trans site where you can find information on the trans....

http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/product_range/further_product_ranges/boats/ships.html

Performance.....
I personally noticed a remarkable performance increase after switching everything over. The boat quit listing and the steering improved noticeably. Some of this may have been because of the prop change recommended by Eric and again later due to the rudder change to the 07 rudder recommended by Skier to Skier.

The hull.....
The hull is exactly the same as any other boat. MC just switched the direction in a failed experiment to get the wake better. It didn't work and they switched back later in 03. They also sent out a service bulletin to replace the prop and switch the cable on the bell crank on boats that escaped the plant with this lame set up. My dealer told me he still has a stack of RH rotation props laying around somewhere.

here's the picture of the prop I took off my boat and the new one.....

bturner2
07-26-2011, 08:16 AM
Oh I should also add that I still have the prop and will sell it cheap to anyone who might want one.

bturner2
07-26-2011, 08:27 AM
Went looking for a picture of the back of the boat and could only find one that might show the offset.

tex
07-26-2011, 08:27 AM
Well after getting off the phone with the service manager of Boise Mastercraft, he said it was the only Indmar V drive that can go either way. He said all I need to do is remove the throttle quadrant, change the pin location and I'm good to go. Worse thing he said is, now my surf wake will be on the right side bs the left side, and docking the rear will swing right instead of left. He said some people hate it, others like it since it puts the drivers side into the dock, which doesn't have people climbing over the seats. To me I'm not worried my docking skills suck anyway, and I don't surf much, plus when I get a newer MC I won't have to relearn.

Mine swings to the right when docking.

stennes
07-26-2011, 12:40 PM
I may be totally out of line here but I've been through many transmissions. I have never seen one with the same reverse clutches as the drive clutches, or reverse or drive clutch packs being the same size, or the amount of clutches in the packs being the same quantity. I also have not seen the same gear ratio in reverse as forward either.

I don't have a schematic infront of me to make 100% sure if this is ok so a correction is welcome. If the front pump is put on 180* off in the transmission, the tranny will spin the opposite way because the fluid would run the opposite way through the valvebody. where I'm unsure is if the drive clutches become reverse and the reverse becomes the drive inside the tranny. I would need to look at my shop manual. If that was the case then the pump could be turned 180* and the tranny would use drive and reverse normally. The opposite rotation of prop would then spin correctly without damaging anything in the transmission.


Another thing is the rudder would be in a different location as mentioned above. If this is the case you are wasting time and need to stay with a stock prop. With the rudder being off center in the first place now it could be off center on the wrong side with the new prop.

I think that would be like someone trying to run with two left legs instead of a left leg and a right leg. You can still run but not as well.

Post some pics of the rudder vs prop on your boat.
I checked a friends 04 X30 and his is rudder is in the exact same spot as mine but his turns opposite of mine, he said his handling is just fine, and actually from talking with him, it's better. He said with his he installed the larger 06 and newer rudder and that was a huge improvement. I also installed the 06 rudder which improved it some, but not like his claims, maybe by changing rotation I will see the improvements he experienced?

Rockman
07-26-2011, 12:49 PM
here's the picture of the prop I took off my boat and the new one.....

Don't you mean the new prop and the one you took off your boat!? :confused:


Just messing with you...

Kyle
07-26-2011, 01:02 PM
I checked a friends 04 X30 and his is rudder is in the exact same spot as mine but his turns opposite of mine, he said his handling is just fine, and actually from talking with him, it's better. He said with his he installed the larger 06 and newer rudder and that was a huge improvement. I also installed the 06 rudder which improved it some, but not like his claims, maybe by changing rotation I will see the improvements he experienced?

What about the tranny and the gears and clutch packs.

I'm not saying it's not possible. I would just hate to have a tter burn up a tranny because someone said it's ok do it.

The bravo outdrives run both ways but they are gears and not clutches. The same gear runs reverse as it does drive. I would make 100% sure the tranny could do it vs try and then buy a tranny 150 hours later.

bturner2
07-26-2011, 02:09 PM
I was told by the dealer that this is what they did at the factory to get the reverse direction. This was also what the dealer was told to do to correct the problem. The vdrive gearbox and transmission is the same for either set up. No changes in part numbers or components at all from the boats sent out the door in either configuration.

As for the change in handling.... I notice a bigger improvement with the rotation change than the rudder change but then again the handling was really bad when I first got it and changed the rudder a month after correcting the rotation.

bigmac
07-26-2011, 10:38 PM
I don't have a schematic infront of me to make 100% sure if this is ok so a correction is welcome. If the front pump is put on 180* off in the transmission, the tranny will spin the opposite way because the fluid would run the opposite way through the valvebody. where I'm unsure is if the drive clutches become reverse and the reverse becomes the drive inside the tranny. I would need to look at my shop manual. If that was the case then the pump could be turned 180* and the tranny would use drive and reverse normally. The opposite rotation of prop would then spin correctly without damaging anything in the transmission.




Is that the way this ZF Hurth tranmission works? Sounds like you're describing an automatic transmission with a torque converter. This transmission is strictly gear-to-gear.


Back when he owned MasterCraft of Charlotte, Mike posted this on his forum website (http://mymastercraft.com/Forum/view_thread.cfm?postid=123&forum=10&category=2)

Date Posted: Monday, May 10, 2004, 08:04:53 PM

First of all to all of you doubters out there yes they do exist! EARLY in 2003 MasterCraft tried using RH rotation props. These rolled out the door on ALL V-Drives at the very beginning of the model year. Subsequent testing found that the "reverse" rotation negatively affected the handling and wake characteristics of most X-Series boats. It is not a recall, just preference to utilize the LH rotation props around which the hulls were designed. Mastercraft Warranty and Technical at last report would supply the correct part # prop at no charge. Lastly, to accomplish this change requires nothing more than a modification to the shift control box...it has nothing to do with firing orders, rebuilding transmissions or anything else that complicated. If you have a boat equipped this way make the change you'll be glad you did.

Kyle
07-27-2011, 01:12 AM
Is that the way this ZF Hurth tranmission works? Sounds like you're describing an automatic transmission with a torque converter. This transmission is strictly gear-to-gear.


Back when he owned MasterCraft of Charlotte, Mike posted this on his forum website (http://mymastercraft.com/Forum/view_thread.cfm?postid=123&forum=10&category=2)

I was referring to the many brogue Warner trannys I've been in. The front pump can be 180 off. I've accidentally put one in 180 off. Yes I found out the hard way.

bigmac
07-27-2011, 06:55 AM
I was referring to the many brogue Warner trannys I've been in. The front pump can be 180 off. I've accidentally put one in 180 off. Yes I found out the hard way.

I don't think the mechanism you postulate is applicable in any way to the ZFHurth 630IV V-drive transmission.

Kyle
07-27-2011, 10:37 AM
I don't think the mechanism you postulate is applicable in any way to the ZFHurth 630IV V-drive transmission.

I never once said that is how the zfhurth works or it is like the brogue Warner. All I said was make 100% sure. In this situation we have a dealer saying it's fine. We also have Jim a BAWS saying keep the original. Sorry I'm not the guy who will just give advise unless I'm 100% sure I would do it to my boat. In this case there are lots of things to consider before just doing. I have been through lots of BW trannys and lots of automotive trannys and haven't seen the same ratio in forward as reverse much less the clutch issues mentioned above. I was just saying let's find out for sure before tearing something up. A few phone calls or a few days investigating by clicking on the Internet is a lot better than $2000 for a new transmission and who knows what labor cost would be added on top of that.

I sure did not want this to be some kind of case where someone said "jump off this cliff, I made it" then the op jumps and he dies.

I also sure haven't seen one post here from anyone who has been inside one of these zfhurth trannys. I keep seeing It's all ok just do it. As a boat owner would you want proof or not, once again we still have dealers with opposite opinions.

I also don't see anyone who would be willing to pony up the cash if their advise was wrong.

Furthermore I never said the zfhurth was not capable of running both ways but wanted people to think about all of the possibilities before just doing. I also never indicated a zfhurth could even have a front pump that could even be 180* off. I was giving a bunch of suggestions to consider before just doing.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-27-2011, 10:43 AM
I never once said that is how the zfhurth works or it is like the brogue Warner. All I said was make 100% sure. In this situation we have a dealer saying it's fine. We also have Jim a BAWS saying keep the original. Sorry I'm not the guy who will just give advise unless I'm 100% sure I would do it to my boat. In this case there are lots of things to consider before just doing. I have been through lots of BW trannys and lots of automotive trannys and haven't seen the same ratio in forward as reverse much less the clutch issues mentioned above. I was just saying let's find out for sure before tearing something up. A few phone calls or a few days investigating by clicking on the Internet is a lot better than $2000 for a new transmission and who knows what labor cost would be added on top of that.

I sure did not want this to be some kind of case where someone said "jump off this cliff, I made it" then the op jumps and he dies.

I also sure haven't seen one post here from anyone who has been inside one of these zfhurth trannys. I keep seeing It's all ok just do it. As a boat owner would you want proof or not, once again we still have dealers with opposite opinions.

I also don't see anyone who would be willing to pony up the cash if their advise was wrong.

Furthermore I never said the zfhurth was not capable of running both ways but wanted people to think about all of the possibilities before just doing. I also never indicated a zfhurth could even have a front pump that could even be 180* off. I was giving a bunch of suggestions to consider before just doing.

Geeeze............Kyle being the voice of reason. What is the world coming to?:D

TxsRiverRat
07-27-2011, 10:45 AM
Geeeze............Kyle being the voice of reason. What is the world coming to?

LOL! :banana::banana::banana::banana:

scott023
07-27-2011, 10:46 AM
Geeeze............Kyle being the voice of reason. What is the world coming to?:D

His post blew me away. First time I've thought that it wasn't a 18 yr old posting up. :D:D:D




Just kidding Kyle.

TxsRiverRat
07-27-2011, 10:50 AM
damn, you guys give him a harder time than i do, and i ski with him... LOL

man, we had a badass time at the lake last night...

scott023
07-27-2011, 11:00 AM
damn, you guys give him a harder time than i do, and i ski with him... LOL

man, we had a badass time at the lake last night...

C'mon now, he likes it. :D

bigmac
07-27-2011, 11:04 AM
In this situation we have a dealer saying it's fine. We also have Jim a BAWS saying keep the original.

We have three dealers saying it's fine, four if you count Eric at OJ. I think you misread or are misquoting Jim@BAWS.

Run the boat with what is was designed for...a left hand rotation prop.

Jim@BAWS

Kyle
07-27-2011, 11:05 AM
Geeeze............Kyle being the voice of reason. What is the world coming to?:D

His post blew me away. First time I've thought that it wasn't a 18 yr old posting up. :D:D:D




Just kidding Kyle.

ROTF

You two crack me up.

scott023
07-27-2011, 11:06 AM
ROTF

You two crack me up.

:tiphat: :tiphat:

TxsRiverRat
07-27-2011, 11:08 AM
on a serious note, whatever kyle says is what i'd go with - he's a mechanic and really knows his stuff. his work is the only reason my boat isnt sitting dead ion the stall today...

Kyle
07-27-2011, 11:10 AM
We have three dealers saying it's fine, four if you count Eric at OJ. I think you misread or are misquoting Jim@BAWS.

I stand corrected about BAWS.

Kyle
07-27-2011, 11:16 AM
I want someone who has had grease under their finger nails from a zfhurth to chime in. Not someone who has heard 3rd hand it's ok. Someone who has busted their knuckles and shed some of his own blood who has taken one apart to get involved. Then I will be satisfied.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-27-2011, 11:23 AM
ROTF

You two crack me up.

I don't care what the rest of the guys say about you Kyle...........I think you're OK.:D

bigmac
07-27-2011, 01:24 PM
I want someone who has had grease under their finger nails from a zfhurth to chime in. Not someone who has heard 3rd hand it's ok. Someone who has busted their knuckles and shed some of his own blood who has taken one apart to get involved. Then I will be satisfied.

Me, I'd be satisfied with the advice of 3 MasterCraft dealers and a long-time MasterCraft OEM supplier, as well as someone else in this thread who has already made that linkage switch in 2008 and has had no issues other than now his boat handles properly since it has a LH shaft rotation on a boat hull that was designed for a LH prop.

Plus, the ZF63-IV owner's manual shows that the linkage can go either way and they state that that transmission has the same ratios and torque capacity in ahead or astern shifter position. Seems pretty clear-cut to me...at least enough to go ahead an make the linkage switch and try it out.

stennes
07-27-2011, 01:48 PM
Me, I'd be satisfied with the advice of 3 MasterCraft dealers and a long-time MasterCraft OEM supplier, as well as someone else in this thread who has already made that linkage switch in 2008 and has had no issues other than now his boat handles properly since it has a LH shaft rotation on a boat hull that was designed for a LH prop.

Plus, the ZF63-IV owner's manual shows that the linkage can go either way and they state that that transmission has the same ratios and torque capacity in ahead or astern shifter position. Seems pretty clear-cut to me...at least enough to go ahead an make the linkage switch and try it out.

Made the change yesterday, guess what, it fricken handles twice as good, before you were always having to keep pressure on the wheel to stay straight, not now, it also turns both ways as well. Wished I had done this in 05 when I bought it! Heck wish I would have know this prior to when I bought it!
ETA, I agree with you, same part number, Mastercraft dealers, a MC recall/retrofit, and I talked to a retired MC mechanic and a MC service manager who all say the same thing.

EJ OJPROP
07-27-2011, 01:58 PM
Made the change yesterday, guess what, it fricken handles twice as good, before you were always having to keep pressure on the wheel to stay straight, not now, it also turns both ways as well. Wished I had done this in 05 when I bought it! Heck wish I would have know this prior to when I bought it!
ETA, I agree with you, same part number, Mastercraft dealers, a MC recall/retrofit, and I talked to a retired MC mechanic and a MC service manager who all say the same thing.

Well, at least I got one right.

Shooter McKevin
07-27-2011, 03:03 PM
I want someone who has had grease under their finger nails from a zfhurth to chime in. Not someone who has heard 3rd hand it's ok. Someone who has busted their knuckles and shed some of his own blood who has taken one apart to get involved. Then I will be satisfied.

Amen!!

Made the change yesterday, guess what, it fricken handles twice as good, before you were always having to keep pressure on the wheel to stay straight, not now, it also turns both ways as well. Wished I had done this in 05 when I bought it! Heck wish I would have know this prior to when I bought it!
ETA, I agree with you, same part number, Mastercraft dealers, a MC recall/retrofit, and I talked to a retired MC mechanic and a MC service manager who all say the same thing.

Glad it worked out for you. Boat problems are very stressful. Did you do the work your self to switch it?

Has anyone considered that MC was possibly doing damage by reversing the transmission in the first place and now it is finally back to it's natural state? We hope they would have done their homework but they obviously didn't realize the damage they were doing to the handling until it was too late...

bigmac
07-27-2011, 04:13 PM
Has anyone considered that MC was possibly doing damage by reversing the transmission in the first place and now it is finally back to it's natural state? We hope they would have done their homework but they obviously didn't realize the damage they were doing to the handling until it was too late...

No. As has already been demonstrated, that transmission runs the same forward or backward.

eta:

Actually, there is no "forward" or "backward" on this transmission. That determination is left up to the boat mfgr according to the engine and prop combination that they choose. ZF Marine simply labels the three linkage positions on the tranny as A (propeller rotation opposite of engine rotation N (neutral) and B (propeller rotation same as engine rotation). It's the application that determines "forward" or "reverse", not something inherent to the design of the transmission.

Kyle
07-27-2011, 05:49 PM
Plus, the ZF63-IV owner's manual shows that the linkage can go either way and they state that that transmission has the same ratios and torque capacity in ahead or astern shifter position. Seems pretty clear-cut to me...at least enough to go ahead an make the linkage switch and try it out.

Well that info would have been nice to look at days ago....

I talked to a retired MC mechanic and a MC service manager who all say the same thing.

Finally someone who has gotten dirty and been around one enough to know.

I'd rather ask a real tech than a salesman or dealer. Most (not all) of the white collar workers at the dealers don't know crap about wrench turning or how to fix things. They tell you what someone told someone else who told their friend who told them. I want 100% facts before I go fooling around with $2,000 to $2,500 parts and then everyone is like a little kid and say soooorrrrrrryyyyyyy when something breaks and someone's out $$$$$$$$$

Kyle
07-27-2011, 05:52 PM
Glad the op is back up n runnin

stennes
07-27-2011, 07:00 PM
Amen!!



Glad it worked out for you. Boat problems are very stressful. Did you do the work your self to switch it?
Has anyone considered that MC was possibly doing damage by reversing the transmission in the first place and now it is finally back to it's natural state? We hope they would have done their homework but they obviously didn't realize the damage they were doing to the handling until it was too late...

Yes I did, and it was hot, as I didnt feel like driving it to my shop so I did it in the driveway. Wasnt that bad, other than removing the seat for more room, I also love working on boats, it takes twice as long to do something, twice as easy. Really the worse part was being able to see it, but not being able to get at it, without removing a bunch of interior parts. You could do it with the seat in there, but it would be harder.

bturner2
07-28-2011, 09:01 AM
Had the same experience. Glad it worked out for you.