PDA

View Full Version : Mastercraft and Wakesurfing


MuskokaJ
07-20-2011, 02:05 PM
As an avid Wakesurfer and fan of Mastercraft boats, I am finding it more difficult to justify my next purchase in favor of Mastercraft. Tige and Centurion have absolutely fantastic wakes for surfing, as well as many boat features that cater to surfers. I know that the X25, X35 and X45 produce "decent" wakes for surfing, but nothing like the clean, vertical and retentive wakes produced by Tige and Centurion (particularly that new RZ2, wow). I wish MC would produce a boat that catered more to the surf market. Any ideas if MC is working on anything in this regard?

FourFourty
07-20-2011, 02:08 PM
X25 surf wake just "Decent"?? I would have to strongly disagree with that. The 25 puts out an awesome surf wake.

ShamrockIV
07-20-2011, 02:19 PM
as a lifelong mc boater. i have been looking at others also. i think as much as i surf and with the wake that a malibu wakesetter throws if i ever trade again(and that is a big maybe with boat costs these days) that maybe the boat!!

my x30 is so finicky. getting the wake right is becoming a chore

CantRepeat
07-20-2011, 02:31 PM
Remember those great wakes on other models are not out of the box. They are highly custom with sacs and what not. But, there's no doubt that new models are doing a better job at making surf wakes. I'd still put my X30 up against other models. It took a ton of work to get to this point but I believe I've got a really great surf wake.

jwardenjr
07-20-2011, 04:18 PM
As an avid Wakesurfer and fan of Mastercraft boats, I am finding it more difficult to justify my next purchase in favor of Mastercraft. Tige and Centurion have absolutely fantastic wakes for surfing, as well as many boat features that cater to surfers. I know that the X25, X35 and X45 produce "decent" wakes for surfing, but nothing like the clean, vertical and retentive wakes produced by Tige and Centurion (particularly that new RZ2, wow). I wish MC would produce a boat that catered more to the surf market. Any ideas if MC is working on anything in this regard?

I just finished testing the Malibu, Tige, Centurion and ended up with the Mastercraft X-25 on order. The surf Wake with only factory Ballast and 3 people in the boat was as good as the other boats. The Tige did have the best wake but also had 2500 lbs of ballast in it. The boat did not come close to ride or build quality of the X-25 and put half that weight in the x25 it will be as good or better.

Wake quality with no ballast on the x-25 was better than either boat with ballast and it cleaned up as slow as 16 mph ...

V-man
07-20-2011, 06:59 PM
With a little work the 45 throws a lot of clean and vertical.
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VVYLP62J20A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

V-man
07-20-2011, 07:09 PM
Try this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=VVYLP62J20A

MuskokaJ
07-21-2011, 01:19 AM
X25 surf wake just "Decent"?? I would have to strongly disagree with that. The 25 puts out an awesome surf wake.

When I say "decent", it's all relative...I guess I am comparing the videos of surf wakes of the X25 and the RZ2. There are tons of videos on the internet of RZ2's producing truly amazing surf wakes, while the videos that I have found of the X25 surf wakes are what I would consider "decent". If you have some video of the X25 producing a great surf wake, I would love to see it, because frankly I prefer MC over other brands, and would like to stay with an MC for my next boat. But I will have a hard time justifying that, unless I can find an MC with a surf wake that compares to boats like the RZ2 and the Enzo. Thanks.

JohnE
07-21-2011, 09:28 AM
I don't surf much, but isn't this considered an excellent surf wake? Not mine, but courtesy of another member of this site.

68731

Double D
07-21-2011, 09:41 AM
IMO... Your asking a company, that in all their history was to eliminate wake, to now make a great big wake. MC and SN are probably lagging behind the others you mention because the others could never get to where MC and SN are now with boats that put out no wake. The others just had a lot less work to do... :D:D

So, go surf the other boats and stay off my lake... :rolleyes:

JohnE
07-21-2011, 09:47 AM
IMO... Your asking a company, that in all their history was to eliminate wake, to now make a great big wake. :

Not entirely true....they have been perfecting a big wake for boarding since the mid 90's.

FourFourty
07-21-2011, 10:06 AM
When I say "decent", it's all relative...I guess I am comparing the videos of surf wakes of the X25 and the RZ2. There are tons of videos on the internet of RZ2's producing truly amazing surf wakes, while the videos that I have found of the X25 surf wakes are what I would consider "decent". If you have some video of the X25 producing a great surf wake, I would love to see it, because frankly I prefer MC over other brands, and would like to stay with an MC for my next boat. But I will have a hard time justifying that, unless I can find an MC with a surf wake that compares to boats like the RZ2 and the Enzo. Thanks.

I might be able to get that this weekend. Hopefully the weather will be excellent again for the weekend. I dont even have much for added ballast, but I count on having 5-6 people to sit on the port side for surfing. I want to get a sack for up behind the port front seat, just have not done it yet. If I had that, I would only need 1-2 people with me. Right now, I fill the KGB, port hard tank, and a 300lb sack in the port locker. With 6 people sitting on the port side, attittude plate at 50%, port tab at 80%, and 11.2MPH, The wave is huge, clean, and has a nice deep pocket. I had 2 guys last weekend that tried surfing for the first time, and they both threw the rope in after only a minute or two...

I will see what I can do on a video for you though....

Double D
07-21-2011, 11:52 AM
Not entirely true....they have been perfecting a big wake for boarding since the mid 90's.

I know, but it sounded good... :D 8p

ShawnB
07-21-2011, 01:32 PM
Taken yesterday, 2011 X25 with factory Port+KGB filled, 450 in the rear locker, 500 along the port side and 250 in the port-side bow (all under the seats). 10mph, 50% plate and 100% surf tab.

We kind of like it.

Huskie05
07-21-2011, 04:06 PM
Taken yesterday, 2011 X25 with factory Port+KGB filled, 450 in the rear locker, 500 along the port side and 250 in the port-side bow (all under the seats). 10mph, 50% plate and 100% surf tab.

We kind of like it.

Still looks small for all that weight. We never use our plate, only the surf tab. Can you add some more people? Looks like you need more weight up front, not an expert but we throw more weight up front and our wake is unreal. You have the right surf tab down? Not being a jerk but that would kill it... head scratcher here.

cbryan70
07-21-2011, 04:31 PM
Taken yesterday, 2011 X25 with factory Port+KGB filled, 450 in the rear locker, 500 along the port side and 250 in the port-side bow (all under the seats). 10mph, 50% plate and 100% surf tab.

We kind of like it.
This on a shallow river?

DemolitionMan
07-21-2011, 04:39 PM
Surfing behind the 197.:D

jdl xstar
07-21-2011, 04:44 PM
Explore this thread titled "Best Surf Wake":

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=33172

Sometimes we overcomplicate the surf process and when it comes down to it, water displacement and speed are all that matters for creating a big wake and just about ANY mastercraft can have a solid, rideable wave if you weight it down enough. So, fill ballast, throw in a sack or two, and load all your passengers in the rear. Set speed between 10 and 11 mph and voila!

Size of rider and board size are obviously a huge factor as well so if you are a big guy riding a small board, you wont have much success no matter the wave size. Get a bigger board and you'll find your wake much more appealing!

lawdogg149
07-21-2011, 04:55 PM
Well said. To many people over look that they simply are riding the wrong board and blame the boat!!!!

Tri4X2
07-21-2011, 05:08 PM
http://slayshtank.com/2011/06/mastercraftwakesurf/

Check that one out.

I will keep this as PC as possible. I am a first time MC owner and bought it for rather specific reasons. My first consideration was build quality. My wife and I attended a boat show in Austin and quickly narrowed our field down to two boat companies. When looking at boats I couldn't help but notice how cheesy and not to mention cheap other manufactures build their boats. We did however take out Tige, Centurion, malibu (axis included), and SANTE to solidify our decision.

I made each manufacture show me surf and wakeboard wakes. I was impressed with the SANTE but my wife hated the seats as did I at 6'1. We hated Malibu's bolt in seating and found that having a plow behind the boat was just extra baggage. Tige just seemed cheap in comparison the MC and SANTE, but the kids loved the Pickle fork like they did in the MC. I just can't see myself in a Centurion based on the layout of the boat and the way those things are built. Axis was the only boat my wife actually asked to go back to shore after I drove a double up.

With all this being said, I would never base my boat purchase soupy on the fact that the manufacture produces the best surf wake. There is way too much other ingredients in a purchase like resale value, durability, and other things. I find it rather easy to dial in my X2 and have multiple people practically beg to surf behind my boat rather than take theirs out. Reasons for me having a bucket that is labeled "dough for tow"

MattsCraft
07-21-2011, 05:22 PM
As an avid Wakesurfer and fan of Mastercraft boats, I am finding it more difficult to justify my next purchase in favor of Mastercraft. Tige and Centurion have absolutely fantastic wakes for surfing, as well as many boat features that cater to surfers. I know that the X25, X35 and X45 produce "decent" wakes for surfing, but nothing like the clean, vertical and retentive wakes produced by Tige and Centurion (particularly that new RZ2, wow). I wish MC would produce a boat that catered more to the surf market. Any ideas if MC is working on anything in this regard?

I would put my boat's surf wave up against anything the other manufactures are putting out there. I am not sure what you are saying with the statement MC is not doing anything to their boats for making "Surfable Waves". Were they not the first inboard Manuf. to come out with Surf Tabs in 2010? My X2, well weighted, produces a wave darn close to the X25, the X25 advantage is a wider beam combined with a great wave with stock ballast. This to me is a huge advantage not having to add a ton of extra stuff etc. which is why this will be my next boat. Rumor has it that the X25 with the 6.2 is getting about 5 gallons/hour, another huge plus for this boat and hull design.

My son can launch off the platform (No Rope) ride the wave until he is tired (No Rope) and run back onto the platform when he is finished, all on an X2!

See this post intended for this discussion: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=42221&highlight=Wake+Surfing

D - Sorry man, I am in charge of Huge Wakes at the Buckeye Bash:rolleyes:

deminimis
07-21-2011, 05:42 PM
http://slayshtank.com/2011/06/mastercraftwakesurf/
Reasons for me having a bucket that is labeled "dough for tow"

That's what I've been doing wrong and look at me now.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/hobo.jpg

Huskie05
07-21-2011, 06:22 PM
I would put my boat's surf wave up against anything the other manufactures are putting out there. I am not sure what you are saying with the statement MC is not doing anything to their boats for making "Surfable Waves". Were they not the first inboard Manuf. to come out with Surf Tabs in 2010? My X2, well weighted, produces a wave darn close to the X25, the X25 advantage is a wider beam combined with a great wave with stock ballast. This to me is a huge advantage not having to add a ton of extra stuff etc. which is why this will be my next boat. Rumor has it that the X25 with the 6.2 is getting about 5 gallons/hour, another huge plus for this boat and hull design.

My son can launch off the platform (No Rope) ride the wave until he is tired (No Rope) and run back onto the platform when he is finished, all on an X2!

See this post intended for this discussion: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=42221&highlight=Wake+Surfing

D - Sorry man, I am in charge of Huge Wakes at the Buckeye Bash:rolleyes:

Very nice wake, just like mine! :worthy:

russellhorn
07-21-2011, 06:29 PM
I will say I have been behind two Moomba's, a 2011 Centurion surf edition, and a Malibu 24. I always come away feeling lucky to have my '07 X-15. The wake on it is outstanding. No tabs, a fat-sac that completely fills the locker, and a 400# sac in the floor. I usually only have one or two people with me and it only gets better with more. Sorry I dont have a pic, but this is real world experience here which you cannot get looking at pic/videos ;)

craig3972
07-21-2011, 06:56 PM
surfing is gay

MattsCraft
07-21-2011, 07:11 PM
I will say I have been behind two Moomba's, a 2011 Centurion surf edition, and a Malibu 24. I always come away feeling lucky to have my '07 X-15. The wake on it is outstanding. No tabs, a fat-sac that completely fills the locker, and a 400# sac in the floor. I usually only have one or two people with me and it only gets better with more. Sorry I dont have a pic, but this is real world experience here which you cannot get looking at pic/videos ;)

Well said Russ, I have been behind a lot of MC's toughest surf hull set up would be the 205V, X2/X,1 (year) this hull is really the first true crossover hull, narrow beam, sac'ed out produces a great wakeborad wake and as good or better than a current X2 ski wake (With Center Tab) as any V-Drive crossover on the market or the XStar which is designed ground up for wakeboarding.

My :twocents: is of course, why wouldn't Centurion, Tige etc. key on Marketing a "Surf" specific boat. MC and good dealers work with the buyer and market, making boats that truly crossover and direct them to the boat that is right for the majority of their favorite applications. (jeez, I should work for MC, sound like a marketing executive) As with anything, work with your dealer on your wants/needs, test drive and make an informed decision. Don't listen to marketing hype:rolleyes:.

For me (someone that is in marketing and sales), watching how manufactures differentiate their product etc. I love all the hype but bottom line, does the boat do what you want to do, perform over the long haul and offer continued support down the road... MC all the way baby!!!

MattsCraft
07-21-2011, 07:13 PM
surfing is gay

Anyone using the term "This is Gay" must be:rolleyes:

ktm29
07-21-2011, 09:03 PM
I have a 2011 X35 Wake not there yet? all balist full wake plate dwon OK but not great what are we doing wrong?

Tri4X2
07-21-2011, 09:40 PM
I have a 2011 X35 Wake not there yet? all balist full wake plate dwon OK but not great what are we doing wrong?
Add weight until you feel as if it may be to much... then add some more. Might want to try bringing up your wake plate too.

ktm29
07-21-2011, 09:56 PM
thanks, I agree more wieght. You think you pay 6 pluse figures for a wake surf boat you would not have to mod.

Double D
07-21-2011, 10:26 PM
D - Sorry man, I am in charge of Huge Wakes at the Buckeye Bash:rolleyes:

I can survive one day to hang out with you guys. Just don't start too early.... :rolleyes:

peettee79
07-22-2011, 07:22 AM
surfing is gay

Things that you suck at usually are !

FourFourty
07-22-2011, 09:02 AM
Still looks small for all that weight. We never use our plate, only the surf tab. Can you add some more people? Looks like you need more weight up front, not an expert but we throw more weight up front and our wake is unreal. You have the right surf tab down? Not being a jerk but that would kill it... head scratcher here.


Judging by how my X25 behaves, he would actually want the weight biased more tward the back if he wants a taller wake. That being said, I love the type of wave that is being shown in that pic..... Really deep with a really long clean lip and about 3' tall. Although I usually do set up for a taller wave.

If he wanted the wake taller, all he really has to do is lift the port tab and attitude plate a little bit.






surfing is gay

Surfing is gay.....That post is, in itself, Gay.

MuskokaJ
07-22-2011, 09:20 AM
surfing is gay

Thanks for your 2 cents and for making us Canadians look like morons.

ShawnB
07-22-2011, 09:24 AM
I'm confused at how small the wave looks too, especially compared to MattsCraft's. We do end up surfing in 6 feet of water sometimes in our lake but in other places it's over 20. Also there was no passengers in the boat at the time unless you count my 8-year old daughter.

And all of that said, I can surf all day behind it with a low-end Hyperlite board so it must have some value.

MuskokaJ
07-22-2011, 09:31 AM
Some of the people responding here have said "get a larger board" or "just about any boat is surfable with the right ballast". I agree with the those statements if you goal is simply to surf. But for some people, like myself, you want an EPIC surf wake to get airs, spin, and pull a variety of tricks. You want clean, vertical, and long pocket. I can surf all day long behind ANY Mastercraft, but going back to my original post, I'd really love to see a Mastercraft boat that can match the wake of some of the other boats out there (like the RZ2). I am not a fan of Tige at all, but man that boat kicks a sick wake. I've seen the X35 video with Chase Hazen, and it also looks pretty nice, but I have heard that it is a pain in the butt to set up a nice starboard wake. I also hear people say the X25 throws a great wake, but every picture I see, it's okay but not EPIC. As a current MC owner, I want a MC boat with an RZ2 wake...that is my wish list for 2012 product!

MuskokaJ
07-22-2011, 09:40 AM
I might be able to get that this weekend. Hopefully the weather will be excellent again for the weekend. I dont even have much for added ballast, but I count on having 5-6 people to sit on the port side for surfing. I want to get a sack for up behind the port front seat, just have not done it yet. If I had that, I would only need 1-2 people with me. Right now, I fill the KGB, port hard tank, and a 300lb sack in the port locker. With 6 people sitting on the port side, attittude plate at 50%, port tab at 80%, and 11.2MPH, The wave is huge, clean, and has a nice deep pocket. I had 2 guys last weekend that tried surfing for the first time, and they both threw the rope in after only a minute or two...

I will see what I can do on a video for you though....

I'd be interested in seeing that video, thanks. I am confused about your setting of port tab at 80%...if you are surfing port side, wouldn't putting down the port tab reduce the size of the wake significantly?

Tri4X2
07-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Why would you say it's a pain to set up starboard? As to the earlier posts, if you like MC stay with them, if not go with the cheaper boat, but the fat sacs that you will need anyway and save some money. We all buy for different reasons. I would not look at the videos and I would do what my wife and I did. Go to the dealership, tell them to take you on the water and show you their "epic" wave because that is your make or break deal. Once you surf behind it, and drive in thte types of water you normally do, you will make your decision

FourFourty
07-22-2011, 12:00 PM
I'd be interested in seeing that video, thanks. I am confused about your setting of port tab at 80%...if you are surfing port side, wouldn't putting down the port tab reduce the size of the wake significantly?

I think a common misconseption is that you use the tabs to help tip the boat to one side.... I found that doesnt do anything really at all. If properly weighted, I use the tab to tune the wake on the side that I am surfing..... Ie. lower the tab to help drop the bow and lengthen the wave. It also helps a little bit with platform interference.

When I first got this boat, i was trying to use the opposite tab to help tune the wave.... It didnt do anything... Maybe it is not the intended way to use it, but it makes a HUGE difference for me.

MuskokaJ
07-22-2011, 01:01 PM
Why would you say it's a pain to set up starboard? As to the earlier posts, if you like MC stay with them, if not go with the cheaper boat, but the fat sacs that you will need anyway and save some money. We all buy for different reasons. I would not look at the videos and I would do what my wife and I did. Go to the dealership, tell them to take you on the water and show you their "epic" wave because that is your make or break deal. Once you surf behind it, and drive in thte types of water you normally do, you will make your decision

Why would I say it's a pain to set up starboard? Because there are many boats out there (not just MC) that throw nice port wakes, but washy starboard wakes. This is often due to prop rotation, hull design, etc.

As for staying with MC or a "cheaper" boat, I'm not considering other boats because they are cheaper. I am simply looking for the best surf wake.

With regards to going to the dealers and trying out different boats, I have done that with all the MC's (X45, X35, X25) with the exception of the X55. I have not yet done that with the Tige RZ2/RZ4 or the Centurion Enzo, which currently seem to throw the best surf wakes in the industry. And the challenge with test rides behind any boat, is that it often takes several hours of tinkering to get the best wake out of a boat. Unless I'm riding with somebody who has already dialed in that wake, the test ride isn't necessarily indicative of the best surf wake that the boat can produce.

Please do not misinterpret my original post as MC bashing. I love Mastercraft boats, just want to see if any of the boats out there can throw a surf wake like the Tige or Centurion.

Tri4X2
07-22-2011, 03:45 PM
Why would it take several hours? If the dealership you are testing out can't set a boat up automatically then they have some problems knowing their product. I am sure the that Tige and Centurion have to load massive amounts of ballast just like MC.

When I went to TExas Ski Ranch and told them what I wanted, they brought thhe boat to the lake an hour away already set up with fat sacs. The longest it took us was the time to fill up ballast.

russellhorn
07-22-2011, 04:28 PM
You left out the X-15 and that is a mistake ;) Fill up the kgb, the port or starboard side (not both), throw a 1100# fat sac in the locker, set your pp at 9.8 mph, and you will have a surf wake that is the envy of most others. I know a guy that sold his Tige mainly because of the way the front would stuff (and take on water) into the wake when he crossed over. Not sure which model though. His new Centurion surf has already been in the shop several times for fit/finish issues you should never see in a boat that cost that much money. Now he is having electrical problems. Sure it has a nice wake....when its not in the shop. I’m not a MC fanboy as there are other very nice boats out there and I enjoy the time spent on them, but I am more than willing to sacrifice maybe a 2% bigger wake for the confidence and reliability I get with the MC.

Tri4X2
07-22-2011, 06:01 PM
You left out the X-15 and that is a mistake ;) Fill up the kgb, the port or starboard side (not both), throw a 1100# fat sac in the locker, set your pp at 9.8 mph, and you will have a surf wake that is the envy of most others. I know a guy that sold his Tige mainly because of the way the front would stuff (and take on water) into the wake when he crossed over. Not sure which model though. His new Centurion surf has already been in the shop several times for fit/finish issues you should never see in a boat that cost that much money. Now he is having electrical problems. Sure it has a nice wake....when its not in the shop. Iím not a MC fanboy as there are other very nice boats out there and I enjoy the time spent on them, but I am more than willing to sacrifice maybe a 2% bigger wake for the confidence and reliability I get with the MC.

This is what I'm talking about in my posts. :cool: Look at the JD Power ratings (which this is the first year they are not doing them:( "

If you are buying a boat from a individual that doesn't mean you can't go to a dealership and drive and surf behind one before you make a purchase. The x15 and the x2 have very similar bottoms so I can see what you mean!!

russellhorn
07-22-2011, 07:05 PM
Just my .02 for someone shopping mainly for surf: I spent a day with a friend who owns an X-2. We set-up his boat the same as mine (listed above) to see how it compared to the X-15. The wake was totally different even though the boats do look similar side by side on the trailers. The biggest difference being the frontal portions of the hull. We had to add an additional 400# sac on the front to get a good surf wake, but the pocket was no where near as long as it is on the X-15. Also, we had to increase the speed at least .5 mph. It had a nice tall wake that would look good in a pic/video, but actually surfing it was totally different than the X-15. BTW I am not slamming the X-2. It is a great boat for those who don’t have alot of room to store it and I am sure it skis/wakeboards well.

deminimis
09-11-2011, 12:45 PM
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LkdvJ6BrUMk/TmwtYwUAbTI/AAAAAAAABM0/aGN1nLt5Wpo/s720/larry1.JPG