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View Full Version : 92 PS 351 wake spray and prop?


Dave Osk
07-20-2011, 10:15 AM
I picked up a 92 PS 190 last week. It has an OJ 13 x 13 prop and standard 351. I spent some time searching Teamtalk for ideas on props and noticed a picture of a wake in the "show me your wake" thread that looked really nice. Actually much nicer than mine.
I was wondering what first hand experience some of the members here have had to reduce spray, rooster tail and improve the wake on this hull.
I read in the 93 waterski boat buyers guide that in 93 MC set up the stars and stripe with a lower bow attitude on plane to improve what I mentioned above. Has any one tried this on the 92?

TxsRiverRat
07-20-2011, 10:19 AM
What speed?

What wind conditions?

It all depends on that

east tx skier
07-20-2011, 11:25 AM
Welcome.

The 93 S&S and 92 190 should have the same hull. The WSM guys may have weighted the nose or something to get it to ride a little more bow down. But it shouldn't need much, if anything, to have a wonderful wake.

Here is a prop comparison (www.tylerskiclub.com/proptest.pdf) I did on my old 93 205 several years ago. My impression was that the CNC milled prop I replaced my factory 13x13 with improved the wake a bit.

As for chine spray, in no wind, you should be able to get into 35 off without too much trouble. Short of modifying the hull, there's not much you can do about that.

Dave Osk
07-21-2011, 04:46 PM
I really want to see what difference it will make with the bow riding lower. The Boat was set up for a second battery up in the bow. So I purchased a battery to put in that spot and might move the primary battery from the rear to the front as well. Hope to run it this weekend and will take a camera along with me.
Thanks for the help.

TxsRiverRat
07-21-2011, 04:52 PM
Maybe i ‘m not looking at this the right way, but wouldn’t pushing the bow down raise the transom higher and increasing the spray?

IMO, the OP did not consider speed or wind in his observations.

Dave Osk
07-21-2011, 05:08 PM
I understand what your saying about speed and wind. What I am looking at is the height of the spray at the stern of the boat. If I can change the spray direction from up to out I hope to improve the conditions for the skier at all speeds and wind. First try and easiest is change the plain of the boat and see what it does.

TxsRiverRat
07-21-2011, 05:42 PM
OK cool... I just think pushing the stern higher is going to increase it... Please post your findings, I've found spray at the testicular level is not fun...

LOL

Kyle
07-21-2011, 05:50 PM
Install a 4 blade prop. The side spray is something you will just learn to deal with. I have about 250lbs in my bow with batteries, amps, gear etc. The side spray is still the same.

The prop did a lot and made the wakes softer and the turbulent prop wash is a lot less with a 4 blade.

Kyle
07-21-2011, 05:51 PM
Btw -38 is still do able behind your boat, I've done it.... The newer ones have less side spray but you pay 3x as much for that luxury. Get some man hands and ski through it.

east tx skier
07-21-2011, 05:52 PM
Install a 4 blade prop. The side spray is something you will just learn to deal with. I have about 250lbs in my bow with batteries, amps, gear etc. The side spray is still the same.

The prop did a lot and made the wakes softer and the turbulent prop wash is a lot less with a 4 blade.

A newer 3 blade will soften the wake a bit as well.

Kyle
07-21-2011, 06:11 PM
Yeah a new CNC oj or acme will be fine yes.

I love the 4 blades as the speed is more consistant and a bigger skier could pull the speed down with a 3 blade especially if the engine is not the HO engine. The 3 blades do have a higher top end though.

The torque with the 4 is awesome. Maybe I'll try a CNC 3 blade for grins.

Kyle
07-21-2011, 06:14 PM
I also believe people added weight to the bow to represent 2 judges that would be sitting in the observer seat. That was my justification for adding all of my stereo system lol.

east tx skier
07-21-2011, 07:16 PM
Yeah a new CNC oj or acme will be fine yes.

I love the 4 blades as the speed is more consistant and a bigger skier could pull the speed down with a 3 blade especially if the engine is not the HO engine. The 3 blades do have a higher top end though.

The torque with the 4 is awesome. Maybe I'll try a CNC 3 blade for grins.

The Acme 541 had the same or greater surface area as their 4 blade. I have a 4 blade now, but it was what was recommended for my boat. At the time I bought the 541, that's what Bill was recommending for my 93 Pro Star.

Eric's recommendations for the OJ may be different. I seem to recall BrianM's liking the OJ XMP four blade better in his application.

Dave Osk
07-21-2011, 09:45 PM
Did you guys notice a change in the rooster tail between the 3 and 4 blade props when testing? On my last boat I tried several different props and found that one prop made the 22 bump low/firm and another prop created a tall/soft bump. Long liners preferred not to see the large foamy RT.

east tx skier
07-21-2011, 11:30 PM
Check out BrianM's prop comparison

http://press.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=31670

DooSPX
07-23-2011, 02:00 PM
You are not going to get rid of the chine spray. but a CNC prop will help your wake a bit. You have one of the best hulls for slalom wake period. The 91-94 PS190's are considered the best with the exception of the spray. for the Power Slot guys, both companies recommend 4 blades, for the 1:1 guys, they recommend 3 blades most of the time. Eric from OJ is a GREAT guy to deal with and will send you a prop or more for free to try until find the one that you like the best.
I am a OJ fan, but that's personal preference. Call OJ or Acme and talk to them about what you want from your boat and they will recommend a prop. Pick whomever you want. OJ's customer service is 10000% TOP NOTCH!!!

Also, wanted to add that with the 4 blade prop, my strongest pull across the wakes only pulls my speed down by about .2 mph, I love my OJ 4 blade!!!

lettmeknow
07-23-2011, 03:28 PM
Try the 5 blade, should solv all your problems! :D

Dave Osk
07-23-2011, 06:41 PM
Here is a picture of wake at 34 and spray at 30. My wife slowed down with out me knowing so speeds were not the same.

DooSPX
07-23-2011, 11:09 PM
I don't see anything different about those pictures that is not normal about the era hull. The wake looks great, and the rooster tail, you shouldn't worry about it. A CNC will knock it down some though...

Dave Osk
07-31-2011, 12:08 PM
To continue with getting my new old boat dialed in I have moved both batteries up to the bow that slightly changed the attitude of the boat on plane. Ground down the ruder so it pulls slightly to the right and last changed from the standard 13 x 13 OJ to the ACME 541. Here is a set of pictures at 32 mph old prop vs ACME 541.

The first pic is with the 541 ACME and the second is with a slightly dinged standard OJ.

lanier92prostar
07-31-2011, 12:26 PM
The space under the observers seat in my 92 was for a cooler, but I never thought of putting the battery up there. In mine the fuel tank is off center for the battery placement, so if you move the battery to the front, that will change the weight in the back of the boat.

Dave Osk
07-31-2011, 12:33 PM
To continue with getting my new old boat dialed in I have moved both batteries up to the bow that slightly changed the attitude of the boat on plane. Ground down the ruder so it pulls slightly to the right and last changed from the standard 13 x 13 OJ to the ACME 541. Here is a set of pictures at 32 mph old prop vs ACME 541.

The first pic is with the 541 ACME and the second is with a slightly dinged standard OJ.

Sorry, I got the order of the pictures screwed up the second picture is with the ACME 541 the first is the original OJ.

Dave Osk
07-31-2011, 12:42 PM
After moving both batteries to the front I will say it is not worth the effort. Pulling the battery cables from the stern to the bow was a pain. I really wanted to see what difference it would make first hand so I rolled up my sleeves and did it. I bought those cheap marine battery boxes and fit them into the cooler area. It worked nice and I do like the location for servicing the batteries but really did not see a significant improvement in wake or spray.

oldairboater
07-31-2011, 01:08 PM
The wake on my 93 is almost perfect. I plan on changing props to get a little better shaped wake but the change is going to be minimal. Moving batteries up to the front might make a change if it is next to where the bow eye comes through the hull. My built in ice chest area still is to centered in the boat for that little weight change. Sometimes the effort is not worth the trouble but it takes the people willing to put forth the effort to prove us wrong or right. Too many times I have scratched my head and said-" I didn't see that one coming."

jconover
08-01-2011, 12:30 PM
OK - Slalom skier question here -- when you get to the point in the middle of that wake, and you are ripping across the wake - what do you do? Do you
A) Close your eyes and pray for the best
B) Man up and plow through it because you know it is soft
C) bend your knees and try to be a human shock absorber
D) other

This is actually a serious question - I have been working on my slalom sets for a few years now, and I still have a problem crossing the wake - my brain is so trained to fear that little bump, I inevitably let some of the angle off my cut so that my ski is more on plane than on edge. I am afraid to hit the wake when I am moving at 50+MPH while on the edge of the ski. FYI i usually ski about 35 mph (weigh ~200lb). anything slower and i feel like i'm sinking.

PS - Sorry for the threadjack, it looked like the thread had arrived at a good conclusion, and it was relevant to the topic

To continue with getting my new old boat dialed in I have moved both batteries up to the bow that slightly changed the attitude of the boat on plane. Ground down the ruder so it pulls slightly to the right and last changed from the standard 13 x 13 OJ to the ACME 541. Here is a set of pictures at 32 mph old prop vs ACME 541.

The first pic is with the 541 ACME and the second is with a slightly dinged standard OJ.

TxsRiverRat
08-01-2011, 12:42 PM
My answers:

1. Behind my PS 205 @ 22 off: A

2. Behind my PS 205 @ any other line length: B/C


Are you skiing in a slalom course? If you are, you need to slow that boat down to 30 so you can learn it. Also, if you feel you must be at 35 MPH, my guess is you are not skiing wide enough... What you want to do is get very wide on the boat, gradually turn in for your cut across and when you get to the edge of the wake, go balls to the wall across the wake... I would practice that until you can fly across it, then start adding small things to it – preturn, edge change, one handed turn and then the offside cut...

jconover
08-01-2011, 12:46 PM
I dont have access to a course (yet). I practice in sets of 6 cuts, course-style - 3 left, 3 right, enter/exit in the middle. I have no idea how on earth i could slalom at 30 mph though.

DooSPX
08-01-2011, 12:50 PM
I moved the battery from beside the fuel tank to under the ob. seat. I made a box to fit in the cooler location, then fit a battery box and strapped it down to the hull. looks factory and works great.
when resting with no one in the boat, with a full or close to full tank, the rear drivers corner is slightly lower. But, while on plane it has no effect, and seems to keep a little better balance to the wake.

TxsRiverRat
08-01-2011, 12:55 PM
I dont have access to a course (yet). I practice in sets of 6 cuts, course-style - 3 left, 3 right, enter/exit in the middle. I have no idea how on earth i could slalom at 30 mph though.

i'm 6'00" and weigh 185# and i ski the slalom course at 32, and on occasion speed it up to a 17.50 (my best guess for 33). There was a driver error the other day and the PP was set for 30 and i ran it like I was standing still.

Practice your ON SIDE cut over and over again till you can cross it with wreckless abandon and have no fear... remember - hips up, arms straight and low, SOFT knees...

If you practice that stance on dry land it will help...

Kyle
08-01-2011, 02:02 PM
J

The immediate answer no matter speed or line length is man up, lift up your skirt and grab em.....

Now I'm not picking at you at all. Your question is legitement but letting up and not staying on edge all of the way through but slightly going flat is actually way more dangerous than staying on edge until you are completely through both wakes. A flat ski is an uncontrolled ski. Skiing flat or letting up will cause stuffing the ski into the wake sending you flying or cartwheeling with wreckless abandon.

Objective: get from one side to the other by staying on edge.
Stay out of the course for now cutting progressively stronger getting more angle each time which will increase speed behind the boat. Obviously your comfort zone will be determined by you. Make sure you are getting faster and faster each turn. Ski as long as you can not just 6 turns. It's not a race. Ski out turn cut across. Forget pretending like you are in a course but relax, turn and cut to the other side.
Watch some slalom videos where a pro is coaching on your tv. They will talk about body positioning.

Remember it's not how many turns or cuts you can make as fast as you can. It's make as many as you can. Keep in mind the pros ski 6 bouys with gates and they are doing it in 16.08 seconds. You are not there yet so if it takes you a minute who cares have fun and push yourself to cross harder and faster each time. Eventually you will be able to pull as hard as you can from one side to the other.

Quit worrying about the spray, wake, wake pattern, prop wash etc. You are only psyching yourself out.

You may take a few spills but who cares. A flat ski is not a very controlled ski

More angle increases speed behind the boat. Now angle at the turn bouys is not always speed but we will get to that problem sooner than later.

Also slow down the boat to 32 or 30 mph for a while. A ski buddy of mine is 6' something and 225 skis 28 mph a few passes.

TxsRiverRat
08-01-2011, 02:22 PM
JA ski buddy of mine is 6' something and 225 skis 28 mph a few passes.

I was wondering if that was 28 mph he was at the other day... Looked like you guys were crawling

Dave Osk
08-01-2011, 03:27 PM
I dont have access to a course (yet). I practice in sets of 6 cuts, course-style - 3 left, 3 right, enter/exit in the middle. I have no idea how on earth i could slalom at 30 mph though.

Even though you killed my thread I think I might be able to help you out. As you make your turn really focus at looking straight down the rope to the back of the boat. Your eyes should stay focused down the rope at the back of the boat until you exit the second wake. Proper eye and head movement are the building blocks of all schools of slalom.
Focus on this as you complete your turn and you will be across the second wake in grate condition.
After second wake eyes go out cross course.
Give it a try because it is really beneficial.

Kyle
08-01-2011, 09:21 PM
Dave your thread died a week ago. Everyone gave you the 2 things that you could do to improve your wake.

Option 1 change to a CNC prop 3 or 4 blade. Call Eric at OJ a prop builder, prop professional, and someone who will know every answer to all of your prop questions because he plays with props every day. Try both of them out and different pitches and diameters and cups. Someone even gave a review page of his opinions. This will make a noticeable difference. Pictures of wakes mean nothing but how smooth you ski conditions were that day. The wake change is feel not that visual. You can only be the judge of how the wake change was better or worse.

Option 2 add some weight to the front of the boat. Yes the bow sits lower but really doesn't change the wake. More people added weight to simulate a boat judge and a score keeper, not to make the wake better. Adding the weight would simulate tournament practice for skiers skiing in record tournaments.


So what's up with the attitude towards a man asking a question about wakes and skiing. How many times do you need to hear that everyone changes their prop to improve the wake or they buy a new 190 or 197. At least jconover is asking a levitate question instead of beating a dead horse over a little chine spray and a prop change.

So how did jconover kill your thread? I hate to say your thread died 7-23-11. It's time to play props and find out what you like.

Someone please give this thread CPR cause I'm not.

Dave Osk
08-01-2011, 10:42 PM
Kyle, I agree that the thread was not going anywhere and did not mind he asked the question. I wasn't serious about him killing it and apologize to all if it they took it that way.
I appreciated his question and tried to help because what he is experiencing is really common. Getting across the wakes with confidence and avoiding hard falls I take very serious.
This forum has a ton of information in it and really enjoy reading. I do have trouble navigating through it all and appreciate the folks that have helped guide me to the older threads and post responses. I really try to get the boat set up the best I can. Nothing better than having some one ski a personal best while your driving.

Kyle
08-02-2011, 12:00 AM
Dave this site is very fun for the most part and there is a lot of joking that goes on. Most of us that have been here for years get our humor. As a new guy saying killing your thread without a :) or :D it's very hard to understand jokes vs serious.

There have been a few guys that last a few weeks that are not funny. Stay around man and ask a few guys who hooligan was or is and you will get where I'm coming from. Glad you were just joking and not being serious.

Dave Happy posting and welcome to TT.

thatsmrmastercraft
08-02-2011, 12:30 AM
hooligan :uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

Dave, Kyle speaks the truth (Never thought I would be typing that:D). There is a ton of info here, and a fair amount of good-natured ribbing to go along with it. You would find it very challenging to find a MC related topic that can't be addressed by some member in the know.

TxsRiverRat
08-02-2011, 10:16 AM
I can write my name in cursive in pee on the sidewalk :D

Kyle
08-02-2011, 12:54 PM
I can write my name in cursive in pee on the sidewalk :D

Sure glad you gave this thread CPR and got it kicking again.....knew you would chime in.