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LaRue
07-07-2011, 12:36 PM
hopefully you experts out there can help me. we have a 2000 Maristar with no tower or ballasts of any kind. i would like to give my son a better wake for boarding. He seems to cut and approach the the wake pretty good but he isn't getting any type of air and basically lands on or just over the other wake.

On this type of hull, should he be able to get some air, i mean is this a matter of his form or is it because the wake is rather small. I am pulling him around 18-20 and fuel tank is usually 1/2 full.

Here are a couple of shots of our wake. As i look i am wondering if i should shorten the rope.

Furthermore, what would be the least expensive and most user friendly route of adding some size and shape to our wake, assuming low $$ and user friendly can actually go together.

Thanks in advance

MattsCraft
07-07-2011, 01:13 PM
I don't know your hull very well, but from the pics it looks like your line is possibly too short. Your wake shape looks clean, just not very tall. 65' to 70' is pretty typical for wakeboarding, huge air guys will go longer. I would add at least 2-400lb sacs to your rear lockers and a 350lb down the walkway, this will definitely increase the ramp size. This is pretty easy and fills pretty fast with a Tsunami pump. Without a tower getting big air will be more difficult. Straightening his legs in the trough will help him pop off the wake instead of bent and trying push off.

kskonn
07-07-2011, 01:35 PM
I agree with everything Mattscraft just said. Some Fat Sacs will make the wake bigger. However, with the size of that wake he should not be limited unless he is already doing 740's, serious invert tricks. We have ridden behind wakes smaller than that at 70 ft and been able to get plenty of air. Nobody ever wants to believe that 90% of air comes from Technique at the point you hit the trough of the wake, the way you use/manuever the roap etc... When you get really good a larger wake will take you to the next level. I know if you put Sean Murray behind your boat with that wake he would still be phenominal.

agarabaghi
07-07-2011, 01:45 PM
740s?

Here are some steps before you add ballast...

1) Rope length 65 - 70ft for that boat
2) Speed - 19 - 20mph probably... looks for when the wake forms a lip
3) Lose the gloves
4) Focus on line tension and handle position
5) Keep a progressive edge, start about 10ft from the wake, and approach it slowly while picking up speed as you get closer
6) As you come up off the wake stiffen / straighten your legs about 90% (not straight legged dont wanna blow knees) and keep handle at hip...

He should be able to clear the wake or at least pop up and get some air. I could do rolls and 3s on a unweighted '94 205...

LaRue
07-07-2011, 02:00 PM
740s?

Here are some steps before you add ballast...

1) Rope length 65 - 70ft for that boat
2) Speed - 19 - 20mph probably... looks for when the wake forms a lip
3) Lose the gloves
4) Focus on line tension and handle position
5) Keep a progressive edge, start about 10ft from the wake, and approach it slowly while picking up speed as you get closer
6) As you come up off the wake stiffen / straighten your legs about 90% (not straight legged dont wanna blow knees) and keep handle at hip...

He should be able to clear the wake or at least pop up and get some air. I could do rolls and 3s on a unweighted '94 205...

we are using a standard wakeboard rope so we should be good on that
i am at the speed suggested
i have told him to lose the gloves but he is stubborn like his mother :rolleyes:
What do you mean by keeping a progressive edge?
What are rolls and 3's?

Appreciate your help!!

agarabaghi
07-07-2011, 02:12 PM
Progressive edge is an edge where you focus on line tension and your edge. You load the line and progressively increase your speed as you approach the wake, it allows for more pop / control. Most people start their cut into the wake way to fast and let off their edge (flattening the board) and lose pop

http://vimeo.com/groups/2452/videos/2083792

Thats my buddy who i ride with everyday (hes ALOT better than me) and at 0:49 you can see a super progressive edge...

Roll = backroll
3's = 360 spin

Jeff d
07-07-2011, 02:17 PM
I've got a 230 so it's a bit different but even as little as a pair of 280 lb bags made a lot of difference in my boat. I'm running 2,700 lbs now and the wake will really launch you.

Your speed could be an issue too. With little or no ballast you could get away with 18-19 MPH or so. The wake will be a little taller. The boat will have no problem maintaining this speed without a lot of weigh in it and the wake should be "clean" (i.e. not foamy on top or curling over) at 60-70 ft out. When you add a lot of weight you will generally have to increase wakeboarding speed to clean up the wake and stay on plane.

Technique is key though and it's something you have to get a feel for. For big air cut as far out to the heelside as you can then start edging towards the boat. Slow at first and build speed at a rate such that you hit your max speed just before the wake (Called a "Progressive Edge"). As you enter the trough of the wake stand up tall and hit the wake with a heavy front foot. When done properly this should give you more vertical height.

For the 210 I'd probably start with a pair of 400 lb bags to give you flexibility in the future. You won't be able to throw them in the rear compartments though because it will be too heavy in the rear. Put one centered in front of the rear seat and one in the walkthrough. It will be like night and day with 800 lbs in there. If you want more then get a bow sac of some sort and move those 400s into the engine compartment. Also at that point you will likely get tired of filling with a portable pump and want to plumb everything in but prepare to spend more on plumbing and electrical odds and ends than you spent on the bags themselves.

FourFourty
07-07-2011, 02:17 PM
What do you mean by keeping a progressive edge?


Start out cutting slowly twards the wake, and progressively carve harder as you get closer to the wake. The big thing to acheive air is to really be carving fairly hard as you go up the wake. That will get energy built up under the board, and load the rope. Stand tall, and push your chest twards the ski. Make sure to hold the rope at your waste, or balance will be a big issue.

Jeff d
07-07-2011, 02:29 PM
Another factor on rope length is the tower. You don't have one, right? That effectively makes the rider 5' or so further back at a given rope length. So, for a new rider on the ski pylon 55-60' would be the equivalent of most comparable boats with 60-65' off of the tower.

LaRue
07-07-2011, 03:25 PM
thanks everyone for the quick responses!

kskonn
07-07-2011, 03:40 PM
740s?

Here are some steps before you add ballast...

1) Rope length 65 - 70ft for that boat
2) Speed - 19 - 20mph probably... looks for when the wake forms a lip
3) Lose the gloves
4) Focus on line tension and handle position
5) Keep a progressive edge, start about 10ft from the wake, and approach it slowly while picking up speed as you get closer
6) As you come up off the wake stiffen / straighten your legs about 90% (not straight legged dont wanna blow knees) and keep handle at hip...

He should be able to clear the wake or at least pop up and get some air. I could do rolls and 3s on a unweighted '94 205...

Sorry about the 740- it is a running joke I have with a buddy who constantly over rotates on a 720. I always tell him he is the king of the 740. I guess I have said it so much it became a habit!

Nice walk through on the progressive edge.


I Second losing the gloves. they will actually decrease your grip strength if you are using a wakeboarding handle with a padded grip. If he wants to get good he is eventually going to have to go through the pain of building up Calluses on his hands.

nmcjr
07-11-2011, 11:11 PM
Along with the ballast I'd strongly suggest getting pylon extension to get the rope up higher. You are really limiting him without that because in the air the rope will actually be pulling him back down, so really this is a required upgrade in my mind.

If you want to go cheap for ballast, buy a 750 and a tsunami pump, and drop it right in the middle of the boat. That should be enough to learn with, then later you can put it in the bow when you add two more 400's for the rear lockers. I'd spend the extra money on the extended pylon way before I'd buy the two bags for the rear lockers. A sinlge 750 in the middle will get him through 1-2 summers of advancement.

nmcjr
07-11-2011, 11:14 PM
And yes, gotta lose the gloves-there's serious style issues LOL, but they actually also make blisters worse because with wake handles the gloves then stick to the handle and rub on your hands. They work for ski handles because they are a hard rubber material.

kevkan
07-11-2011, 11:25 PM
Your wake looks like an awesome slalom wake. Kind of like my old '85. Flyhigh pole didn't help. Ballast didn't help. Getting a wakeboard boat was the answer!

agarabaghi
07-12-2011, 09:05 AM
get us video of your son cutting in.