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R_J
07-25-2005, 02:33 PM
OK, a little history. Last summer my brother purchased an 88 190 from an old friend of mine in High School 15 years ago. He had it one season, ran fine. When he went to winterize it he missed a couple freeze plugs. Needless to say I think he cracked the intake manifold as he will get water in all 8 Cyl's :eek: .

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago. He doesn't have the time to mess with it, so he is pawning it off on me :D . Being quite mechanically inclined I don't have a problem with an engine swap or anything of that nature.

Currently it has a Ford 351W in it. Best of my knowlege completly stock.

I do know MasterCraft changed to SBC later in the 90's (not sure on the year to be exact)

I happen to have a SBC that was built by a local speed shop for a 1977 Toyota LandCuser, this was a offroad only rig, so the egine was built for lowend grunt. The power range from the cam looks like 500-4500 RPM range. The engine has 700 miles on it.

This engine is a $6k engine to build. Aluminum heads all the bells and wistles. I was thining of swapping it in-lou of the Ford engine, however I'm not sure if I can get the correct Bell Housing (for lack of a better term) to connect to the 1:1 Borg Warner ( IIIRC ) tranny. I know it is a 1:1 as I saw the tag but I'm not 100% on the tranny manufacture.

Has anyone attempted a SBC swap into a originally Ford Mastercraft 190?

TIA

-RJ

6ballsisall
07-25-2005, 02:42 PM
OK, a little history. Last summer my brother purchased an 88 190 from an old friend of mine in High School 15 years ago. He had it one season, ran fine. When he went to winterize it he missed a couple freeze plugs. Needless to say I think he cracked the intake manifold as he will get water in all 8 Cyl's :eek: .

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago. He doesn't have the time to mess with it, so he is pawning it off on me :D . Being quite mechanically inclined I don't have a problem with an engine swap or anything of that nature.

Currently it has a Ford 351W in it. Best of my knowlege completly stock.

I do know MasterCraft changed to SBC later in the 90's (not sure on the year to be exact)

I happen to have a SBC that was built by a local speed shop for a 1977 Toyota LandCuser, this was a offroad only rig, so the egine was built for lowend grunt. The power range from the cam looks like 500-4500 RPM range. The engine has 700 miles on it.

This engine is a $6k engine to build. Aluminum heads all the bells and wistles. I was thining of swapping it in-lou of the Ford engine, however I'm not sure if I can get the correct Bell Housing (for lack of a better term) to connect to the 1:1 Borg Warner ( IIIRC ) tranny. I know it is a 1:1 as I saw the tag but I'm not 100% on the tranny manufacture.

Has anyone attempted a SBC swap into a originally Ford Mastercraft 190?

TIA

-RJ

RJ first off welcome to the board. There is a wealth of info here!

To answer your question yes it can be done. I recently added it all up and the swap will be costly. Skidim has access to the engine mounts you'll need to do this. Give the a jingle. Same transmision was used in later years with the SBC you'll just need a different housing. I am sure Skidim can get all those parts for you. Try Vince or Richard, they are top notch

www.skidim.com

Workin' 4 Toys
07-25-2005, 02:45 PM
RJ, let me get this straight, You want to install a "non-marine-ized" small block chevy into a boat that had a 351 Ford marine engine. Just to clarify before giving you my 2 Cents.

R_J
07-25-2005, 02:52 PM
Workin,

Yes this isn't technically a marine engine.

Standard rotation etc.

Specs: forged crank, rods, forged pistons with Dart Aluminum heads, roller rockers, deep oil pan, high volume oil pump. FF pins etc.

Last time it was on the dino ( 3 years ago ) it pumped 425 HP at 4200 rpm.

Now. Maybe I am crazy putting non specific marine engine in. Kind of why I am here :D

-RJ

R_J
07-25-2005, 02:53 PM
Jrandol,

thanks for the pointers I will check into them, cheers !

-RJ

6ballsisall
07-25-2005, 02:56 PM
RJ if it's a built engine there really isn't a whole lot of difference other than the components that go on the blcok (distributor, alternator, starter, water pump, those are marine specific and definetely needed)Your internal components sound ok for this app.

JLeuck64
07-25-2005, 03:11 PM
Did the Ford 351 rotate in the same direction as the SBC you are considering for replacement?

6ballsisall
07-25-2005, 03:15 PM
RJ, MC's rotate standard rotation just like a car engine so you are cool with the rotation.

R_J
07-25-2005, 04:32 PM
Jrandol,

I guess this is a prudent question. I saw in your original post you considered a SBC swap. After you tallied the money up for the swap you decided not to do it.

I guess my question is, why where you considering the swap in the first place?

Issue I see here with my situation is, I don't know what is cracked on the motor. It could simply be the manifold, as this seems like the most probably senario as my brother will get water in all 8 cy. I thought it would be unlikley that he would have a crack in all 8. Is this reasoning sound?

I'm not out to make more work for myself then need be, and by no means am I bent on using this SBC engine. If I can fix or replace the current engine for a reasonable cost then so be it, I will go that route.

"NEW" replacement engines look to be the 4k-6k range. The boat purchace was for 3k , in my book it was a no-brainer. :D If I can get out of the swap for ~1k or so I would consider that a good return on investment minus my own time.


-RJ

Workin' 4 Toys
07-25-2005, 04:57 PM
The biggest question you should have with an aftermarket engine is a set of nonmarine heads. Will there be sufficient amount of cooling using fresh water and running at fresh water temperatures.
Is the porting in the heads you have sufficient cooling using fresh water?
And I believe the oil pans and oil pickups in the pan are different, but I am not sure about this one.

6ballsisall
07-25-2005, 06:14 PM
RJ,

If you decide SBC theres a guy that works on my boat some for me that has a ridiculously built 350 (dyno charts right at 500hp) that is marinized in all. This is the motor I contemplated putting in my boat. The powerband is a little higher up but the motor was made to wrap to 7k comfortably. It might not be quite right for wakeboarding but sure would be fun for barefooting :D He is selling it for $3,500 which I believe is a steal!

jimmer2880
07-26-2005, 07:05 AM
You may have problems running 60deg water through those alum heads. I believe that's why the LT1's have 2 thermostats.

However, you could get around that problem by converting to a "closed cooling" system where you run antifreeze in the motor, and have the anti-freeze cooled by a heat exchanger with the lake water.

Sounds like a fun project.

Workin' 4 Toys
07-27-2005, 03:21 PM
RJ, what did you decide to do? Did you find the problem?

Storm861triple
07-27-2005, 03:36 PM
The cooling/water/heads issue is a non-issue. If anything, just like any other car-engine-in-a-boat, there will be way more than sufficient cooling w/the lake temp water.

The relivant issues here are:
Bellhousing/adapter -Advanced Adapters if you can't find a "conversion" bell housing
"Marinizing" -freeze plugs, starter, dist, and carb
Other harware -Manifolds, t-stathousing, raw water pump
Motor mounts -Perhaps some fab work

I think it's a totally managable project. I'd change a cam that peaks at 4500 RPM though. Too low IMO, and doesn't match those heads. Sounds like fun to me.

-Tom

R_J
07-27-2005, 03:37 PM
Still up in the air as to what to do, I found a local guy with an extra intake manifold, so we are going to try that first.

Found the heads to be the corvette head on the engine, from reading I also found this:

12556463 Corvette Aluminum Cylinder Head Assembly
This aluminum cylinder head assembly for small-block Chevrolet V8s is ideal for street rods, fresh-water power boats, and high-performance applications. GM Performance Parts' aluminum cylinder head assembly combines the benefits of light weight, advanced design, and an affordable price. This complete head assembly includes valves, chrome silicon heavy-duty valve springs, retainers, 3/8" screw-in rocker studs-everything an enthusiast wants in a high-performance cylinder head package! GM Performance Parts aluminum cylinder head assemblies are based on brand new Corvette light alloy castings (P/N 10088113). The Corvette cylinder head's advanced design features include D-shaped exhaust ports that enhance the flow of burned gases, high-velocity intake runners that provide crisp throttle response, and centrally located spark plugs that improve combustion efficiency. Valve seat inserts for 1.94" diameter intake valves and 1.50" exhausts are installed in the 58cc combustion chambers. Raised rocker cover rails with machined sealing surfaces virtually eliminate rocker cover gasket oil leaks. This high-performance cylinder head assembly is used exclusively on High Output 5.7-liter small-block V8 engines. Unlike production Corvette cylinder heads, it is outfitted with special heavy-duty valve springs (see part number 12551483 for technical specifications). A pair of aluminum cylinder heads offers a weight savings of approximately 50 pounds over comparable cast iron cylinder heads. (A bare aluminum casting, less valves and springs, weighs 19 pounds, versus 44 pounds for a bare cast iron head). This reduction in total engine weight of 25 pounds each can improve handling, acceleration, and fuel economy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/rjorgens/Chevy%20350/Chevy_Rocker_2.jpg

So I think the engine is up to the task at hand. The heads will be good for fresh water user. :toast:

Will see if the manifold works, if not it looks like the 350 is going in :cool:


-RJ

R_J
07-27-2005, 03:40 PM
The cooling/water/heads issue is a non-issue. If anything, just like any other car-engine-in-a-boat, there will be way more than sufficient cooling w/the lake temp water.

The relivant issues here are:
Bellhousing/adapter -Advanced Adapters if you can't find a "conversion" bell housing
"Marinizing" -freeze plugs, starter, dist, and carb
Other harware -Manifolds, t-stathousing, raw water pump
Motor mounts -Perhaps some fab work

I think it's a totally managable project. I'd change a cam that peaks at 4500 RPM though. Too low IMO, and doesn't match those heads. Sounds like fun to me.

-Tom


Are you impling Advanced adapters make a adapter to mate a Chevy to the current tranny. I was under the impression this is a pretty standard piece in the new boats that use the chevy blocks.

Storm861triple
07-27-2005, 03:58 PM
I suspect that you should easily be able to find the proper bellhousing that would mate a SBC to your trans.

I was just suggesting that if you CAN'T find that, Advanced Adaptors definitely makes kits to bolt SBC's into Ford applications...like this one.

Those Corvette heads certainly are fine for the job...as are any aluminum heads. I retract my earlier statement about the cam though. Those heads are nothing special, and a stockish cam (which it sounds like you have) is probably a pretty good match for the heads.


-Tom