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View Full Version : Will be skiing for the first time, have some questions


JeromeM
06-20-2011, 11:18 AM
I have been wakeboarding for 3 years now, I'm 31 so the most I do is wake to wake jumps and some small tricks(working towards a 360), I'm getting too old to show up at work with injuries, lol

In the winter, I teach skiing and snowboarding on weekends. What I love is ripping down groomed runs going as fast as I possibly can and doing some nice carved turns with nice angulation and inclination (looks kinda like this (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0W1PxAsfNjg/TEd65Mh87_I/AAAAAAAAAP0/czICYpDTxCo/s1600/YSC+HH+steep+.jpg), this is not me but just a picture I found: ) . I ski on world cup GS skis because I like to steer the ski myself.

Anyways, I figure I would love Slalom on water and since our 99 PS205 is I think a great boat for it, I'm trying it. I don't see myself in a slalom course, not for years anyways as there are none around here so this will be all open water slalom.

I have questions:

-I have a coated spectra line, and a regular line should I use the regular line?

-What length should I start with roughly?

-I'm thinking of starting at 26-28mph is that smart?

-How bad will deep water starts be? On a wakeboard even at 210lbs I pop out of the water instantly.

-The shop I am buying the ski from is letting me rent it for a weekend to ensure I like it, which is great. But they are putting me on this one: http://ridewatersports.com/20hospbu67sl1.html which is a 67" ski. I weigh 210lbs, I was thinking I would need a 69" http://ridewatersports.com/20hospch69sl.html as it's more in my weight range. What do you think, should I insist on the bigger one? On snow, I like a longer ski as it's more stable, I have to work it more to turn quickly but I prefer that to a shorter less stable ski just not sure how it works on water.

-This ski is a good deal since it's last years model, they sell all HP/Conelly/Radar skis, should I spend the $$ on a better ski and learn on it instead of having to buy a more advanced ski in a year or two or will I be ok on this one?

-The bindings are just the pretty basic Level front boot and a rear toe piece, should I get better stuff?

Is there anything else I should be looking at? I will be taking lessons this summer once I try it a few times, i'm a firm believer in lessons since as a ski instructor I am constantly taking lessons to get better.

I'm used to buying high end ski stuff every year for snow, but since I'm new to this I don't want to buy top of the line if I won't be able to use it.

Thanks!
Jerome

TxsRiverRat
06-20-2011, 11:26 AM
At 210#, I would go with a 68. I am 180 and on a 67. Straight line handle and 8 section ropes are cheap, about 40 bucks now. If you’ve never been up on a slalom, I would recommend a “deep-v” handle. as far as sped goes, I would say 30-32, you being a bigger guy, will need to higher speed to avoid the feeling like you’re sinking.

As far as your boat goes, the 205 is almost as good as the 190, I love love love my 93 205...

MC

MIskier
06-20-2011, 11:52 AM
The burner is a wide ski with a lot of surface area, so a 67in ski in that wide of a ski should be alright, if you are going to be trying a narrower faster ski, HO Nitro or Radar Senate, you will want to be on a 69in ski. 30-32mph with the full length rope will be a good place to start so that you have a wider area of the wake to stand in while getting comfortable with the characteristics of slalom skiing.

93Prostar190
06-20-2011, 12:53 PM
Get a slalom rope or ski rope (they have a bit of stretch vs. wake lines) .... 28 may be slow once you startin finding the "edge" of the ski ....

I am a snow person as well and love slalom skiing and wake boarding .... anytime you can get on edge and carve is a good thing.

LEARN THE deep water start .... just keep the ski between you and the boat and don't try too much throttle at first ...... give yourself a chance to set the ski, and keep your hips under you (not behind as you get compressed) .... with practice the more throttle the better ...

I use a 68 inch ski .... I would try an find a Connelly F1X is you can .... good width and performance so you can start swerving! A 69 would be nice for you ... no less than a 68.5 with a traditional shape ...

Good luck, keep us posted.

JeromeM
06-20-2011, 01:46 PM
ok, thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I will push them to give me the 69" then, I don't want to sink! haha I'm not sure what other skis they have there, but at least they will let me rent and apply that amount to the purchase of a ski so I can try a few and the $$ isn't lost.

At my lake I don't have a choice with the deep water start so I'll need to learn that real quick.

TxsRiverRat
06-20-2011, 02:12 PM
Ahem...


http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=13588

aaron.
06-20-2011, 02:18 PM
Get a slalom rope or ski rope (they have a bit of stretch vs. wake lines) .... 28 may be slow once you startin finding the "edge" of the ski ....

I am a snow person as well and love slalom skiing and wake boarding .... anytime you can get on edge and carve is a good thing.

Good luck, keep us posted.


x2, that spectra rope is static for wakeboarding. you'll want a slalom rope w/ stretch. It will make a considerable difference.

I like to think of slalom skiing as running sprints. Its quite the workout; and will help keep your back & shoulders strong for winter.

rip it up!

TxsRiverRat
06-20-2011, 02:20 PM
I do spin cycling classes on Mon and wed and I do power yoga on tue and thu. Spin helps me with cardio and endurance for slalom, yoga with core strength and balance... :)

Miss Rita
06-20-2011, 11:26 PM
If you're good at doing nice carving turns on groomed ski slopes waterskiing will be a piece of cake. What you'll find out is that when you snow ski your always trying to carve, with a waterski you always carve. You'll also find out that you just can't slow down to take a break whenever you want when the boat is pulling you 30 mph.

Since you're a snow ski instructor I'm sure you realize the value of spending $30 for an instructional waterski DVD. Watch some videos of pro skiers on YouTube. Relax, have fun, enjoy.

epnault
06-21-2011, 04:05 AM
I am not your typical sized slalom skier either at 6'1 235 but I am in great shape. I do alot of strength training and cardio.

I bought a HO Comp Freeride Charger in 2008 and it is a great ski. I bought it because I was hoping it would help me with deep water starts behind my parents I/O at the time and help with turning. It didn't help me in deep water starts-it would not pull me up but it was the boats fault but it did help me with learning how to turn. When I got my MasterCraft deep water starts were not an issue with this ski. The problem was my skiing improved really fast after we got a MasterCraft and this ski wasn't cutting it anymore. The ski is wide, buoyant, and has a V shape bottom. All these things are great for rough water, easy starts, and basics turning.

I am an x apline ski racer and I also snowboard. What you are going to find fairly quickly, since you understand edging, is the intermediate skis are not great at this. My wife let me buy a HO Coeificient X for fathers day and I had a chance to ride it on Sunday. It was an unbelievable experience. The funny was in the first turn I tipped over and skidded across the water. I had no idea how much effort it took to turn on the Charger. I took a couple more runs and was starting to get the hang of the high performance ski before running out of daylight. My recommendation would be to buy/try the step below the full competition ski ($600-$800 standard retail skis). I bet you will be most pleased with this level of ski versus the intermediate ones you listed.

konaking
06-21-2011, 08:26 AM
Hi there
At that speed and your weight you will want the bigger ski. At speeds of 32 plus the 67 ski will be good. If I may suggest the Radar Theory at slower speeds of 30 mph and the Radar Senate? Senate C at speeds above that. If you stay with it you will want a more capable ski. The Radar Senate C will take you a long way. Also since your local shop carries HO demo the Coefficient. May I also suggest you ask this ? onwww.ballofspray.com

Have fun your going to love it. Long time alpine skier from Ut. PSIA IV and old racer. Learned to water ski first though.

YooperScott
06-21-2011, 08:33 AM
Going straight to a slalom ski may be a little hard. You might want to get up on 2 skis, learn how to drop a ski in order to get to 1 and then after you can do that start getting up on 1. Just remember, if it were easy they would call it wakeboarding. :)

-V-
06-21-2011, 10:16 AM
is skiing really easier than wakeboarding?

lanep82
06-21-2011, 10:21 AM
is skiing really easier than wakeboarding?

Not in my opinion............

JeromeM
06-21-2011, 10:49 AM
If you're good at doing nice carving turns on groomed ski slopes waterskiing will be a piece of cake. What you'll find out is that when you snow ski your always trying to carve, with a waterski you always carve. You'll also find out that you just can't slow down to take a break whenever you want when the boat is pulling you 30 mph.

Since you're a snow ski instructor I'm sure you realize the value of spending $30 for an instructional waterski DVD. Watch some videos of pro skiers on YouTube. Relax, have fun, enjoy.

Thanks for the info, I am getting VERY excited to try it. I absolutely LOVE carving so this is going to be fun. And yes for sure I've been watching Youtube vids and I plan on taking lessons, there are several places locally that offer lessons so I'm sure that will help.

I am not your typical sized slalom skier either at 6'1 235 but I am in great shape. I do alot of strength training and cardio.

I bought a HO Comp Freeride Charger in 2008 and it is a great ski. I bought it because I was hoping it would help me with deep water starts behind my parents I/O at the time and help with turning. It didn't help me in deep water starts-it would not pull me up but it was the boats fault but it did help me with learning how to turn. When I got my MasterCraft deep water starts were not an issue with this ski. The problem was my skiing improved really fast after we got a MasterCraft and this ski wasn't cutting it anymore. The ski is wide, buoyant, and has a V shape bottom. All these things are great for rough water, easy starts, and basics turning.

I am an x apline ski racer and I also snowboard. What you are going to find fairly quickly, since you understand edging, is the intermediate skis are not great at this. My wife let me buy a HO Coeificient X for fathers day and I had a chance to ride it on Sunday. It was an unbelievable experience. The funny was in the first turn I tipped over and skidded across the water. I had no idea how much effort it took to turn on the Charger. I took a couple more runs and was starting to get the hang of the high performance ski before running out of daylight. My recommendation would be to buy/try the step below the full competition ski ($600-$800 standard retail skis). I bet you will be most pleased with this level of ski versus the intermediate ones you listed.

Thanks for the tips, sounds like I need to start to go back to the Gym :) And you confirmed what my fear was that the Charger might be "too" intermediate. I think the store is worried that the better ski will be too much of a learning curve but I am fine with a steeper curve if it means I can keep a ski longer. I wouldn't go to a full on $1000-$1200 ski but will ask if there's something in the middle and will demo that.

As for the speed, I was thinking slower so it didn't hurt as much but it sounds like slower will be harder to make the turns and stay up, which makes sense. I don't have an issue going 30-32mph, I guess I'll see when I get on the water.

JeromeM
06-21-2011, 10:50 AM
Hi there
At that speed and your weight you will want the bigger ski. At speeds of 32 plus the 67 ski will be good. If I may suggest the Radar Theory at slower speeds of 30 mph and the Radar Senate? Senate C at speeds above that. If you stay with it you will want a more capable ski. The Radar Senate C will take you a long way. Also since your local shop carries HO demo the Coefficient. May I also suggest you ask this ? onwww.ballofspray.com

Have fun your going to love it. Long time alpine skier from Ut. PSIA IV and old racer. Learned to water ski first though.

Thanks for the tips :) I will look for those skis at the store and will check out that site.

TxsRiverRat
06-21-2011, 11:01 AM
Not in my opinion............

is skiing really easier than wakeboarding?


http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/do-not-feed-the-trolls.jpg

russlars
06-21-2011, 01:15 PM
I think that you will find that getting up on slalom will be your biggest challenge. It is totally different and much harder than getting up on a wakeboard. In addition to getting a deep V handle to give you a nice straight pull I would recommend borrowing the widest ski you can find to help you learn to get up. Once you have learned to get up on a wide body ski, then you will be able to transition to a narrower performance ski. Also, make sure you have a good driver that knows how to give you a good pull. Good luck and watch out because it can be addicting!

JeromeM
06-21-2011, 01:35 PM
I think that you will find that getting up on slalom will be your biggest challenge. It is totally different and much harder than getting up on a wakeboard. In addition to getting a deep V handle to give you a nice straight pull I would recommend borrowing the widest ski you can find to help you learn to get up. Once you have learned to get up on a wide body ski, then you will be able to transition to a narrower performance ski. Also, make sure you have a good driver that knows how to give you a good pull. Good luck and watch out because it can be addicting!

Addicting is good :)

What would be the proper way to pull someone out of the water for Slalom? Get up to speed easy, gun it to half throttle....???

TxsRiverRat
06-21-2011, 02:02 PM
210# - gun it...

russlars
06-21-2011, 02:22 PM
Addicting is good :)

What would be the proper way to pull someone out of the water for Slalom? Get up to speed easy, gun it to half throttle....???
First of all I commend you on your fine choice in selecting a great slalom boat! When your driver us setting you up for the pull have them get you perfectly straight behind the boat, then just put it in and out of gear about every 5 seconds until you feel balanced on the ski. Stay collapsed in a ball with most of your weight on your back foot and you arms straight out in front gripping the handle with palms down. When I say hit it I like a nice solid pull slowly progressing the throttle to about 3/4 or so. Say in the collapsed position until the ski is on top of the water, then stand up. If you end up going over the front if the ski, which happens a lot with beginners, then have the
driver ease up on the pull the next time and keep more weight on the back foot. Just remember that you are not just going to pop out like you do on a wakeboard. There will be a lot more drag on your body. That is why a wider ski will be easier to get up on until you get the feel of it.

JeromeM
06-21-2011, 04:03 PM
First of all I commend you on your fine choice in selecting a great slalom boat! When your driver us setting you up for the pull have them get you perfectly straight behind the boat, then just put it in and out of gear about every 5 seconds until you feel balanced on the ski. Stay collapsed in a ball with most of your weight on your back foot and you arms straight out in front gripping the handle with palms down. When I say hit it I like a nice solid pull slowly progressing the throttle to about 3/4 or so. Say in the collapsed position until the ski is on top of the water, then stand up. If you end up going over the front if the ski, which happens a lot with beginners, then have the
driver ease up on the pull the next time and keep more weight on the back foot. Just remember that you are not just going to pop out like you do on a wakeboard. There will be a lot more drag on your body. That is why a wider ski will be easier to get up on until you get the feel of it.

That's great advice, understandably the wider ski will be better yes, I get that, but does it then hinder performance?

I have a REALLY old slalom ski at the cottage, maybe I could use that on my right foot at first if I'm having trouble getting up on one ski and then just drop it once I'm up.

MIskier
06-21-2011, 04:12 PM
That's great advice, understandably the wider ski will be better yes, I get that, but does it then hinder performance?

I have a REALLY old slalom ski at the cottage, maybe I could use that on my right foot at first if I'm having trouble getting up on one ski and then just drop it once I'm up.

I would advise against dropping, its better to just start from scratch learning to deep water start. A wide ride ski will not turn as well as a high performance ski, but its just baby steps right now. Once you are comfortable with the process of getting up and feel comfortable riding on the ski then you can think about a higher performace ski. A problem you will find just starting out trying to use a high end ski is that it will tend to want to wander if you are not on edge, plus you dont want to put a handle pop into the top of a brand new $800 waterski. If you can find a wide ride ski, or a beat up old ski at your cottage learn to get comfortable getting up on that before you demo an expensive ski.

JeromeM
06-21-2011, 04:20 PM
It's like a 62" extremely old ghetto ski, I tried to use it before, no way I'm getting up on that, lol

Maybe I demo the wider ski then hopefully am able to get up then I can try the better ski.

I just don't want to spend $400-$500 for something that will be obsolete this summer.

MIskier
06-21-2011, 04:33 PM
It's like a 62" extremely old ghetto ski, I tried to use it before, no way I'm getting up on that, lol

Maybe I demo the wider ski then hopefully am able to get up then I can try the better ski.

I just don't want to spend $400-$500 for something that will be obsolete this summer.


Do you know anyone that may have a large older ski? If you are just trying this again after a lot of years off you will probably not make it up on the first try, and using an easy up v handle is a sure bet to ding the top of a ski. Unless you buy a ski that is a very basic beginner ski odds are you wont be able to out ski its ability in a year. For example the senate and senate C by Radar are both mid to mid upper end performance and are capable of running the course well into the -30's.

TxsRiverRat
06-21-2011, 04:33 PM
I just don't want to spend $400-$500 for something that will be obsolete this summer.

Newsflash: Waterskis are constantly being improved and become obsolete after 1 season.

JeromeM
06-21-2011, 04:35 PM
Do you know anyone that may have a large older ski? If you are just trying this again after a lot of years off you will probably not make it up on the first try, and using an easy up v handle is a sure bet to ding the top of a ski. Unless you buy a ski that is a very basic beginner ski odds are you wont be able to out ski its ability in a year. For example the senate and senate C by Radar are both mid to mid upper end performance and are capable of running the course well into the -30's.

Unfortunately I know no one who slalom skis :(

How would that HO Charger compare to the Radar Senate?

Newsflash: Waterskis are constantly being improved and become obsolete after 1 season.

Right, same with snow ski stuff which is why I get new stuff every year, however I get it for free from the shop that sponsors me so that helps. for water I have to actually PAY for my stuff !! :confused: lol

TxsRiverRat
06-21-2011, 04:41 PM
so to learn, go out and buy the oldest, cheapest and widest 69 you can buy so u can learn to ride it... then upgrade... =)

MIskier
06-21-2011, 04:47 PM
Unfortunately I know no one who slalom skis :(

How would that HO Charger compare to the Radar Senate?



Right, same with snow ski stuff which is why I get new stuff every year, however I get it for free from the shop that sponsors me so that helps. for water I have to actually PAY for my stuff !! :confused: lol

The charger is a significantly wider ski than the senate and you probably would soon become disappointed in the purchase. Although that would be a good one to demo to get up on and get comfortable. For the final purchase From Radar I would look at the senate or senate C, and from HO I would look at the coefficient X, and Nitro. You can find good prices at ski-it-again.com.

You really shouldnt worry about your ski being obsolete after a season, if you were a shorline slalom skier than yes it is a concern but for someone that is just starting out as a rec skier you will be fine for several years on whatever you choose.

MIskier
06-21-2011, 04:53 PM
so to learn, go out and buy the oldest, cheapest and widest 69 you can buy so u can learn to ride it... then upgrade... =)

That is a good point, find a cheap ski like this one, http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=14770, and buy the bindings that you want. Once you are comfortable skiing go whole hog and buy the ski that you want.

sorry wrong link, here you go. http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=14778

pmkkdx
06-21-2011, 04:53 PM
also, if the rope you are using doesn't have the overly deep yoke, be sure to put the rope to the outside of your leading foot (left of ski if left foot forward). I found in my earlier days of deep water starts this will help stabilize the ski while you are still down in the water.

Also, if you do come up on two and drop one, be sure to drop in an area with little boat / ski traffic (and remember where you dropped too!!!). Also be sure it is not a ski you mind loosing (as other boaters might pick up). I had to learn using this method due to the lower HP of boats available to me when I started skiing, but also lost quite a few old wooden combo skis along the way.

TxsRiverRat
06-21-2011, 04:57 PM
Well MISKier, I would not recommend a CDX1... LOL I was thinking a a Big Easy, or the likes. then a deep v handle for sure...

Then again, I learned to slalom on a 69" obrien, regular rope/handle behind a 19 ft Maxxum... I never knew I would one day own my own inboard, and ski a slalom course...

MC

TonyB
06-21-2011, 05:01 PM
ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Connelly-Revolution-Slalom-69-Waterski-/280698625930?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415af11f8a

JeromeM
06-21-2011, 05:05 PM
The problem with Ski-it-again and e-bay is I'm in Canada, so shipping is crazy + brokerage fees etc. are nuts as well, usually not worth it :(

MIskier
06-21-2011, 05:06 PM
Well MISKier, I would not recommend a CDX1... LOL I was thinking a a Big Easy, or the likes. then a deep v handle for sure...

Then again, I learned to slalom on a 69" obrien, regular rope/handle behind a 19 ft Maxxum... I never knew I would one day own my own inboard, and ski a slalom course...

MC

Yeah I copied the wrong link, the one below that was for a HO charger which was the ski he had been asking about.

A wide ride would be ideal but I did not see any on ski-it-again.

MIskier
06-21-2011, 05:08 PM
Another option for for the rope is if you have two slalom handles attach them to the same mainline and then place one on either side of the ski, not as ideal as a deep V, but it works in a pinch. I have used this trick a couple of times to teach people to get up.