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View Full Version : MC Cruise to PP Stargazer ?


CantRepeat
06-19-2011, 06:58 AM
Well, I finally drove a boat that has PP and what a difference it makes! Set speed, give the gas, beep, it's on and set!


My question is has anyone changed out an MC to a PP system? This is for my 06 MCX, anyone know if they had DBW in 06?

bturner2
06-19-2011, 08:06 AM
It should be DBW but it's easy to check for. Go look at your throttle body and see if you have a mechanical throttle linkage. No linkage, it's DBW. While I've never done the MC to PP upgrade I have installed PP from scratch on an 03 X2 and it was pretty easy. All the boats come pre wired these days and other than mounting the servo for the PP on the non DBW it was all plug and play. Based on the posts I've seen from you this should be a very easy upgrade for you.

On a separate note I just upgraded from PP standard to StarGazer. Works great and was an easy install. Installed the new module. plugged it in and mounted the GPS antennae. Done. I would think your installation would be the same. I'm sure PP has instructions to do this upgrade and will provide them for you. If you do go StarGazer I found that you don't need to mount the GPS antennae on the dash. Mine sits under the dash above the steering wheel on a shelf that's part of the instrument cluster.

Jerseydave
06-19-2011, 09:13 AM
Well, I finally drove a boat that has PP and what a difference it makes! Set speed, give the gas, beep, it's on and set!


My question is has anyone changed out an MC to a PP system? This is for my 06 MCX, anyone know if they had DBW in 06?

I'm 99% sure you have DBW. My "05 X-star is DBW.
I'm considering Stargazer myself but I run a river with current so for now I'm sticking with my PP with the paddlewheel.

Wake2004
06-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Very simple, change the brain and install antenna. I had to change the gauge as well since mine did not have the LCD display.

CantRepeat
06-19-2011, 05:18 PM
Very simple, change the brain and install antenna. I had to change the gauge as well since mine did not have the LCD display.

Any issues with removing the MC controller?? Where was your brain located? What did it look like?

Wake2004
06-20-2011, 01:05 AM
Any issues with removing the MC controller?? Where was your brain located? What did it look like?

My controller was installed near the throttle lever, it was a small 2" (give or take a .5"). The new control was installed in the 2nd speedo location. Super easy to do. PP also sold or gave me a filler plate to cover the hole where the old controller was.

My brain was mounted to the subwoofer panel under the dash again easy to get to.

bturner2
06-20-2011, 06:45 AM
If you decide to go this route you may want to check Skier to Skier for pricing on the upgrade. They were close to $100 less the going to PP directly for mine.

CantRepeat
06-20-2011, 07:07 AM
If you decide to go this route you may want to check Skier to Skier for pricing on the upgrade. They were close to $100 less the going to PP directly for mine.

Thanks for the tip.

I think the first thing I'm going to do is find all the parts for the MC cruise so I know what to remove.

I had thought about doing the upgrade a while back but with out ever using one I lost interest thinking it wouldn't be much better then what I had. I had a guy from PP email me that info on the connectors back then. Now I need to identify the connector near the motor that is used. I think its a 16 pin connector.

edit

Does anyone know where near the engine this 16 pin connector is located and if it is used by the MC cruise or should it not be plugged in?

/edit

Cobra Rob
06-20-2011, 09:06 AM
I was thinking about doing this on my 07..

Please post when you decide.. It would great to know how much of a pain it was and about what the cost was. I know I have the PP wiring behind my helm area. I will need the upgraded gauge with the buttons on it though. I assume that is probably the most expensive part.

CantRepeat
06-20-2011, 10:25 AM
Well, I think I've got all the connectors located.

I've got the one behind the dash, a 9 pin Mate-N-Lok.

I chased down the wires for the MC driver controls. They have to duetches connectors near the main wiring infront of the driver.

If the main controller for the MC cruise is located under the dash then that box also has the wiring for the trim tab on it and has NO wiring plugins on it, just wires running to and from it.

CantRepeat
06-20-2011, 12:30 PM
OK, just got off of the phone with Mark from PP.

The only reason I'm looking for the 16 pin connector is to verify the PP system will work on my boat. There is nothing to hook up near the engine on a DBW boat.

The 16 pin connector that I located is not the one I'm are looking for. The one I'm looking for is a Delphi type connector, but a standard weatherpak.

Here's a photo of the connector. Again, you don't need to hook anything up to this. It's just to verify you have the right wiring at the motor.

Cobra Rob
06-21-2011, 09:27 PM
Sounds easy enough.. What was the approximate cost?

CantRepeat
06-21-2011, 10:02 PM
Sounds easy enough.. What was the approximate cost?

PP wakeboard edition stargazer DBW $1049 shipped to my door.

My lingering issues are what I need to do to the old MC system.

I know at this point the old MC gage will need to come out, which will leave plug unconnected. I do not know at this point what affect that will have on the rest of the MC system. At this point, the only thing that I'm worried about is my trim tab. For some reason the wires for it go into the brain box of the MC cruise.

So, in my effort, I hope to come up with a good write up for others that are moving from the MC cruise to and PP system.

CantRepeat
06-22-2011, 04:09 PM
Well, it's getting tricky now.

It seems my boat does not have the standard ALDL that PP needs to jump to make it self work. I believe I have an MEFI 4 that might need to be flashed to use PP products.

I've got emails and phone calls out to find out if there is an ECM already made that will work in my boat. I'm not sure if the boat was manufactured this way because it had MC cruise or not.

Does anyone know if PP was offered in 06 with the MCX 350s?

CantRepeat
06-23-2011, 11:02 AM
Anyone out there have an 06 with a PP system in it?

If so, could you possible take a photo of the Mate-N-Lok plug for the PP? I just want to check my wiring against yours.

I'm most interested in the wire labelled ECM. As per the install instructions from PP my pin out goes to the ground wire. I'm not sure if MC would label a ground wire ECM but stranger things have happened.

http://mikesell.net/images/boat/ecm.jpg

KnoxX2
06-23-2011, 11:28 AM
Well, it's getting tricky now.

It seems my boat does not have the standard ALDL that PP needs to jump to make it self work. I believe I have an MEFI 4 that might need to be flashed to use PP products.

I've got emails and phone calls out to find out if there is an ECM already made that will work in my boat. I'm not sure if the boat was manufactured this way because it had MC cruise or not.

Does anyone know if PP was offered in 06 with the MCX 350s?

It was in 06. You might have 05 MCX! I had to take mine to the dealer and have the ECM flashed to make mine work also.

CantRepeat
06-23-2011, 12:05 PM
It was in 06. You might have 05 MCX! I had to take mine to the dealer and have the ECM flashed to make mine work also.

What dealer did you use?

I've got a call out to Rambo's Birmingham store and they are checking on it. I guess they've not work on 06 ECMs for a while.

Short of that, I did talk to Indmar's tech support and it's only $45 bucks to get it reprogrammed.

BTW: the black wire labeled ECM on my boat is just a ground. Your mileage may very.

Gjones
06-23-2011, 01:27 PM
My '05 MCX in an X2 came with PP. Interested to know why MC would offer their cruise and PP both. Does it have to do with the MC cruise being standard and the PP being an option??

Just curious. :confused:

CantRepeat
06-23-2011, 01:33 PM
My '05 MCX in an X2 came with PP. Interested to know why MC would offer their cruise and PP both. Does it have to do with the MC cruise being standard and the PP being an option??

Just curious. :confused:

I'm not sure, but I think the first year for MC cruise was 06 and I'm not sure if PP was an option in 06.

I think I have it pretty much ironed out now. I'll finish up the install and then either haul my boat up to Rambo or send the ECM off to indmar.

CantRepeat
06-23-2011, 03:11 PM
It was in 06. You might have 05 MCX! I had to take mine to the dealer and have the ECM flashed to make mine work also.

Quick question.

I've read and been told that the grounding for the PP needs to really good. With that info, I was told I would have better performance if I ran a 16 gage wire from the PP straight to the block. Did you run this wire and if not have you had any issues?

Cobra Rob
06-23-2011, 10:48 PM
Well, it's getting tricky now.

It seems my boat does not have the standard ALDL that PP needs to jump to make it self work. I believe I have an MEFI 4 that might need to be flashed to use PP products.

I've got emails and phone calls out to find out if there is an ECM already made that will work in my boat. I'm not sure if the boat was manufactured this way because it had MC cruise or not.

Does anyone know if PP was offered in 06 with the MCX 350s?

My buddy defiantly has an 06 X-45 with PP on it directly from MC.

I have the MC cruise on my 07 and like their system better, that's why I was looking at this upgrade and I guess I was hoping because I had the MC version it would cost a bit less on the upgrade.. guess not from what you said

CantRepeat
06-24-2011, 07:53 AM
My buddy defiantly has an 06 X-45 with PP on it directly from MC.

I have the MC cruise on my 07 and like their system better, that's why I was looking at this upgrade and I guess I was hoping because I had the MC version it would cost a bit less on the upgrade.. guess not from what you said

Yeah, sorry to tell you, we don't get any short cuts on this upgrade.


But, after reading, making calls, and getting good info from users here I can tell you this.

The wakeboard stargazer edition from PP is $1049 shipped to your door. Your boat should have the mate-n-lok plug on it already. You will need to get your ecm flashed to use the PP products and Indmar will do it for $45 bucks.


But, like you, I got suck into the upgrade after driving a friends boat that had PP on it. The fact is it will make driving the boat while surfing that much easier on people. Set the speed, give it the gas and forget about it.

CantRepeat
06-27-2011, 09:41 AM
It was in 06. You might have 05 MCX! I had to take mine to the dealer and have the ECM flashed to make mine work also.

What dealer did you use to get the ECM flashed?

CantRepeat
07-14-2011, 02:56 PM
OK, to close this out...


I pulled the boat up to Rambo. Cecil, the service manager, got the correct cal file from Indmar and Jared flashed the ECM for PP. While still at Rambo they tested the PP in RPM mode and it was working fine. I took the boat out today and did some tuning on the PP and it works great in speed mode too.

A side note on this:

My boat motor has a serial number for an 05 motor. I assume it was because it was one of the first 06s out the door. What this means is that I have a MEFI4 and that is why I had to get the ECM flashed. It seems that if you have a later model 06 - 07 you may not need to do this.

The gauge for the MC cruise was removed but all the other wiring for the MC cruise is still in the boat along with the control. Not sure I'll even remove it at this point.

Indmar seemed a little confused about weather or not the PP wakeboard SG system would work with the cal file for 05/06 ECMs. They said they didn't start supporting the SG model until 08 in their ECM files. Truth is the ECM file is the same and it's just the PP brain that makes the SG work. IE if you had a PP in your 05 boat and upgraded to a SG system it will work without doing any ECM work.

Good luck on your upgrades.

sand2snow22
07-14-2011, 03:20 PM
On to this thread late, but could have told you what you already know. I switched my 05 X-2 from MC cruise to PP Stargazer. Had dealer reflash ECM. My only complaint with SG is at surf speeds. Can't do you find the boat will go up to the desired speed of say 10 MPH, then back down to 7 before slowly creeping back up to 10 MPH? Once settled it is great, but getting up is a nightmare, especially for beginners. Let me know if you have this problem.

Only fix I have found is if you gun it pretty good or if you gun it right before the system beeps....Obviously hitting it hard for isn't cool for beginners.

CantRepeat
07-14-2011, 04:05 PM
On to this thread late, but could have told you what you already know. I switched my 05 X-2 from MC cruise to PP Stargazer. Had dealer reflash ECM. My only complaint with SG is at surf speeds. Can't do you find the boat will go up to the desired speed of say 10 MPH, then back down to 7 before slowly creeping back up to 10 MPH? Once settled it is great, but getting up is a nightmare, especially for beginners. Let me know if you have this problem.

Only fix I have found is if you gun it pretty good or if you gun it right before the system beeps....Obviously hitting it hard for isn't cool for beginners.

I'm not finding that to be the case.

I had an issue with over shooting the speed but corrected that by going to the "control settings" and adjusting the "CS" value to a lower number. Likewise, you can change how hard the pull out is by changing the KDW setting. This setting might also help with the speed drop you are getting.

I'm a noob PP user but there sure are a lot of small things you can change to dial in the system. I'm sure with more time using PP it's going to be hands down the marriage saver that I'm looking for.

sand2snow22
07-14-2011, 04:58 PM
OK, I will try messing with the settings, but last I spoke with PP they said CS # was good and I shouldn't have to mess with the CS or KDW......

CantRepeat
07-14-2011, 06:14 PM
OK, I will try messing with the settings, but last I spoke with PP they said CS # was good and I shouldn't have to mess with the CS or KDW......

Well, they know their system better then I do. 8p

CantRepeat
07-16-2011, 03:58 PM
On to this thread late, but could have told you what you already know. I switched my 05 X-2 from MC cruise to PP Stargazer. Had dealer reflash ECM. My only complaint with SG is at surf speeds. Can't do you find the boat will go up to the desired speed of say 10 MPH, then back down to 7 before slowly creeping back up to 10 MPH? Once settled it is great, but getting up is a nightmare, especially for beginners. Let me know if you have this problem.

Only fix I have found is if you gun it pretty good or if you gun it right before the system beeps....Obviously hitting it hard for isn't cool for beginners.

I'm not sure this will apply to you, but if you have a MEFI4 ECM it seems changing to t he PCM setup in PP may help as well.

PP Support email.

Once the system settles down, does it hold the speed very well? The CRS is used when the system first engages then the KDW becomes a factor. If the surging only happens on the initial engagement then it's a CRS problem.

The CRS value calculates where and how we engage. if the value is too high the system might not engage or will take a long time to settle down. If it is too low, Perfectpass will engage then drop off and usually disengage the throttle. i would suggest trying to make a minor adjustment increasing the CRS value. You can also try resetting the system and selecting the PCM engine type and changing the CRS value. The PCM engine is actually slightly closer to the MEPHI-4 then the Indmar MEPHI-5 setting.

So the basics are CS is what keeps you from over shooting the speed or from disengaging. If you are not over shooting and it's not burping after it engages then the CS is set.

If you are dropping to much speed after engaging then raise the KDW. IE: just as soon as it sees it's dropping it will be more aggressive to in the pull. I believe that means it wont wait as long to try and corrrect the drop in speed. I'll have to check but I believe my surf KDW is set to 115.