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Brian B
05-26-2011, 04:01 AM
Just cost me a Memorial weekend trip with my son.

These brakes are dog ****. (2001 X10 with 100 hours)

Caliper fell off last trip. Took out clips, springs, rotor, pads with it...... Also master cylinder was leaking when I pulled it back into the shop......

Replaced pads, clips, rotor, ect....... Moved onto the rest of the brakes to replace all the pads......

2 rotors are trashed and one wheel had a galled lug nut and broke the stud off. Lookslike the failed master cylinder was causing the brakes to drag and also cooked the fluid. Fluid was black and had the consistency of syrup.

Need more clips, springs, and rotors and I highly doubt I'll find the parts in town. And/or find the time and patience to do the work while haing my 3 year old son in tow......

Oh, the master cylinder. What a piece of dog **** job that is....... Dont even do it. Pay someone to do it. I'm a trained technician and I went into a violent rage tonight after ****ing with the thing for 4 hours and failing........

I'm at my wits end. How a 100 hour boat and trailer could have so many problems is beyond me..... Looks like my son and I wont be headed to the lake this weekend. He's going to be more upset than I am.

Thrall
05-26-2011, 04:09 AM
Can you just pull the brake calipers off and roll? Save the weekend that way. 1 missing lug isn't the end of the world. Presuming it's a tandem, bring something to chain/strap up the wheel with the broken lug if it gets worse. You can run on 3 wheels...not ideal, but it works in a pinch.
Just read on here, I think, someone did a complete drum to disk conversion, tandem trailer, got all the parts incl bearings and seals for just over $200, new master cyl too I think. May want to find that, he listed who the parts came from.
Even my 06, when I got it 2 years ago, was from Vegas, as dry as Phx, trailer was only dunked a dozen times maybe, 48hrs on the boat and the PO said most of the hrs were the first year when he had it slipped at Mead............brakes were hanging up, fluid rusty, lug nuts starting to rust on.
When you do get it sorted out, anti seize the caliper bolts, caliper slides, wheel lugs. It will keep everything from corroding.

SkiDog
05-26-2011, 07:36 AM
Just cost me a Memorial weekend trip with my son.

These brakes are dog ****. (2001 X10 with 100 hours)

Caliper fell off last trip. Took out clips, springs, rotor, pads with it...... Also master cylinder was leaking when I pulled it back into the shop......

Replaced pads, clips, rotor, ect....... Moved onto the rest of the brakes to replace all the pads......

2 rotors are trashed and one wheel had a galled lug nut and broke the stud off. Lookslike the failed master cylinder was causing the brakes to drag and also cooked the fluid. Fluid was black and had the consistency of syrup.

Need more clips, springs, and rotors and I highly doubt I'll find the parts in town. And/or find the time and patience to do the work while haing my 3 year old son in tow......

Oh, the master cylinder. What a piece of dog **** job that is....... Dont even do it. Pay someone to do it. I'm a trained technician and I went into a violent rage tonight after ****ing with the thing for 4 hours and failing........

I'm at my wits end. How a 100 hour boat and trailer could have so many problems is beyond me..... Looks like my son and I wont be headed to the lake this weekend. He's going to be more upset than I am.

Don't give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You still got 2 more days to fix it!

samgreazy
05-26-2011, 07:46 AM
Yeah pull the thing with no brakes I have pulled plenty of big boats with no brakes my trailer brakes now don't work worth a crap I have no problems! Don't let that ruin your weekend disconnect those suckers and have fun this weekend!!!

Iskidaily
05-26-2011, 08:13 AM
Yeah pull the thing with no brakes I have pulled plenty of big boats with no brakes my trailer brakes now don't work worth a crap I have no problems! Don't let that ruin your weekend disconnect those suckers and have fun this weekend!!!

I was going to ask whether anyone else tows without trailer brakes... when I bought my '02 X-star last year, the trailer brakes were shot and since my boat is in a lift most of the time and I tow with a Suburban, I figured I would just leave the brakes "as is" and use the towing mode and vehicle brakes. I would appreciate any insights from more experienced trailer users though

gatorguy
05-26-2011, 09:03 AM
Just read on here, I think, someone did a complete drum to disk conversion, tandem trailer, got all the parts incl bearings and seals for just over $200, new master cyl too I think. May want to find that, he listed who the parts came from.

I'm that guy. I replaced everything except the brake lines for $407 from California trailer Works. Took me about 3hrs. I swapped from drum to disks because the drums suck and were not working at all. I towed 9hrs home with it not working with my suburban, and many 15min local trips to the lake. Never had any problems, but I want it to be "right" so I made the switch.

JimN
05-26-2011, 09:17 AM
Just cost me a Memorial weekend trip with my son.

These brakes are dog ****. (2001 X10 with 100 hours)

Caliper fell off last trip. Took out clips, springs, rotor, pads with it...... Also master cylinder was leaking when I pulled it back into the shop......

Replaced pads, clips, rotor, ect....... Moved onto the rest of the brakes to replace all the pads......

2 rotors are trashed and one wheel had a galled lug nut and broke the stud off. Lookslike the failed master cylinder was causing the brakes to drag and also cooked the fluid. Fluid was black and had the consistency of syrup.

Need more clips, springs, and rotors and I highly doubt I'll find the parts in town. And/or find the time and patience to do the work while haing my 3 year old son in tow......

Oh, the master cylinder. What a piece of dog **** job that is....... Dont even do it. Pay someone to do it. I'm a trained technician and I went into a violent rage tonight after ****ing with the thing for 4 hours and failing........

I'm at my wits end. How a 100 hour boat and trailer could have so many problems is beyond me..... Looks like my son and I wont be headed to the lake this weekend. He's going to be more upset than I am.

10 years and almost no time/miles on the road. Do you realize that trailers and vehicles that sit for 99.9% of the time will fall apart? It's called 'Lot rot' in the auto sales business. How long have you owned this boat? Have you done anything to make sure that the brakes were operational and would continue to be? Have you ever inspected the brakes before they failed? The galled nut has nothing to do with the brakes, but EVERYTHING to do with how it was serviced. Anyone who cross-threads a lug nut is an idiot.

The BOAT has 100 hours on it- the trailer has been sitting for 10 years.

Miss Rita
05-26-2011, 09:58 AM
Boats and trailers suffer more from neglect than abuse.

I've learned to flush the brakes every year; costs me $3 for new brake fluid. Your experience reinforces why I do it.

Brian B
05-26-2011, 11:35 AM
Thanks for your thoughts and input guys. I'm headed to the trailer parts store this morning and going to try to salvage the weekend. I'll report back and see where we get!

I'm wondering if someone sells a refurbished swing away assembly? Swapping that master is a nightmare!

JimN. I have owned this boat for two months and looking over the brakes on a otherwise "new" trailer was the last thing on my mind. Up until the failure all I had done was greased the wheel bearings......

Goalie_ken
05-26-2011, 11:36 AM
Do you have the "Custom Mastercraft of AZ' Zeimann low profile trailer? If yes that thing is a POS. I've battled mine for 10 years. Had to re-weld the bunk support, raise the leaf springs, replace an axle...it goes on and on....

pmkkdx
05-26-2011, 11:40 AM
a whole lot of good points being made! not much to add here ... but I too would merely bypass the brakes and tow away IF you have a large enough tow vehicle, and also allow considerable more stopping distance!

I also agree with regular maintenance ... "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure!" - Ben Franklin

Brian B
05-26-2011, 11:43 AM
I have a Duramax Silverado so going with no brakes is an option. Its just my perfectionism thats the deal breaker. I like my investments/toys to be in 100% order at all times....

I'm not sure if this is the Mastercraft of AZ low pro trailer. It came from a California dealer so I'm guessing not...

kskonn
05-26-2011, 11:51 AM
I was going to ask whether anyone else tows without trailer brakes... when I bought my '02 X-star last year, the trailer brakes were shot and since my boat is in a lift most of the time and I tow with a Suburban, I figured I would just leave the brakes "as is" and use the towing mode and vehicle brakes. I would appreciate any insights from more experienced trailer users though

I pull my X-30 all the time with no brakes. It is not even an option anymore. The 03 trailers had a horrbile caliper issue and by the time i bought the boat the break system had been disabled. I went one step further and welded the actuator so I would not have to deal with it anymore.

I pull with an F250 powerstroke.

Brian B
05-26-2011, 11:55 AM
Dang, I'm starting to feel like I'm wasting my time and money if this is what it's going to be like.......

Brian B
05-26-2011, 11:56 AM
BTW. If you have an accident with an injury and DPS finds that you've tampered with or disabled your brakes you're going to be cited for the accident, or ticketed and who knows what kind of mess it could turn into....

BROUSSARD
05-26-2011, 11:58 AM
You have the worst luck ever on Team Talk!

ski/hunt
05-26-2011, 12:02 PM
Brian your brakes probably have not been working well for your time of ownership anyway so I say disable for this weekend then take your time fixing. You can get a complete accuator I got mine from pacific trailer in Cali. (best price) also buy the complete backing plate insted of buying shoes and the rest piece by piece. Easy to take of brake line and the four bolts--- your done no messing with springs ect. Fix that junk later you can't let your little guy down!! I say "play now work later"!!!

ahhudgins
05-26-2011, 12:22 PM
Dang, I'm starting to feel like I'm wasting my time and money if this is what it's going to be like.......

Take the brakes out for the weekend and worry about it next week. I bought my Maristar 200VRS in Michigan and towed it to Virginia behind my F150 with no brakes. The original owner kept the trailer in storage so it was in perfect condition, but the brakes were toast. Like JimN said, if the trailer isnt used and serviced it will turn to crap.

After you get them working, regular checking and maintenance is a must. I clean out my drums every winter before I put it away and bleed my lines in the spring. Its just part of my routine now.

JimN
05-26-2011, 12:24 PM
JimN. I have owned this boat for two months and looking over the brakes on a otherwise "new" trailer was the last thing on my mind. Up until the failure all I had done was greased the wheel bearings......

New is new, unused is completely different. Steel parts that are made to be dunked in water need to be maintained and the precious owner apparently did little/nothing to make sure the trailer was roadworthy, either because they never trailered the boat, they didn't think it was necessary, they were too cheap or some other reason.

MC4SNETS
05-26-2011, 12:24 PM
I'm wondering if someone sells a refurbished swing away assembly? Swapping that master is a nightmare!




Yes, here is the part you need:

http://www.pacifictrailers.com/UFP-A-60-Inner-Member-Slide-7500lb-1-Axle-Disc-Brakes-34043/

My local shop told me that they always replace the whole thing and never replace just the master cyl....

JimN
05-26-2011, 12:28 PM
I have a Duramax Silverado so going with no brakes is an option. Its just my perfectionism thats the deal breaker. I like my investments/toys to be in 100% order at all times....

I'm not sure if this is the Mastercraft of AZ low pro trailer. It came from a California dealer so I'm guessing not...

So, you came here to biatch about your trailer and it's not even a MC trailer? They make their own, did you know that? They work well too, if they're maintained. Some trailers are crap and depending on what you got (post a photo), you may not have gotten a good one. Trailers that are sold by dealers are for one thing and one thing only- to make more money for that dealer, not to provide the best trailer.

You're new here and I don't know how many threads you have read but one thing you'll see is too many opinions about how to service these boats and trailers. Some here are easily capable of doing this service but many have never done anything like it and you'll see a lot of parts being thrown at boats in an attempt to solve a problem without even knowing how to check the existing parts. You called the trailer a POS said it ruined your weekend but completely ignored 10 years of someone elses' neglect. As I posted before, it's not a new trailer. It's not even correct to call it new if it was still sitting on a dealers' lot for ten years.

If you had paid someone to do an inspection of the boat, the trailer whould have been inspected, too. Bottom line, it was your responsibility to make sure it was in good condition and you ignored the trailer, which isn't exactly a minor point. The brakes are there for the safety of all, not just to keep your truck's brakes from wearing prematurely. If you haven't seen what happens when a truck and boat try to stop on a curve at high speed without brakes, look for some photos- it's not pretty.

I don't know what kind of training you have received as a technician but you have to know that the brakes on a car or truck can't be neglected and still expect them to stop you when you need them to. You may be in the SW part of the country but metal still rusts, brake fluid still goes bad and parts freeze.

Trailers are supposed to be serviced annually. Yours wasn't. Whether it was a dealer who dropped the ball or a customer who neglected it, it's now yours to deal with but coming here to complain that an unnamed trailer ruined your weekend isn't fair to MC, in light of the fact that it's their website and your comments could alter someone's purchasing decision.

craig3972
05-26-2011, 12:30 PM
I towed my 06 xstar last weekend with no brakes with a half ton dodge ram - without any excitement. I need new master cylinder and one caliper ... for now.

ShamrockIV
05-26-2011, 12:54 PM
as the other guys have said u may have more probs with a 10 year old boat with no hours due to it sitting than a ten year old boat with 1100 hours like mine.

but if it makes u feel any better the day after i got home from iraq i took my new ot me x30 out for the first time(traded while i was in Iraq0. the ipeller went out ans so did the tensioner and the belt!! I was not happy!! so i feel ur pain!!

pmkkdx
05-26-2011, 12:55 PM
Procrastination gives you something to look forward to!!! :D

but I know what you mean about having everything in perfect working order!!! I am the same way. You should be fine with a Duramax without trailer brakes in the interim (short trips, allow extra stopping distance)

Brian B
05-26-2011, 01:40 PM
JimN. It is a Mastercraft trailer.

I inspected the trailer myself when I purchased it, and everything looked perfectly fine. These problems have surfaced since my purchase.

Brian B
05-26-2011, 01:46 PM
Yes, here is the part you need:

http://www.pacifictrailers.com/UFP-A-60-Inner-Member-Slide-7500lb-1-Axle-Disc-Brakes-34043/

My local shop told me that they always replace the whole thing and never replace just the master cyl....

Wow! I would have definitely gone that route had I known better! Thanks for the link!

bturner2
05-26-2011, 02:01 PM
When I bought my 200VRS I bought some years ago I was told by the PO that the trailer had about 150 miles on it.The Trailer looked like new. Unfortunately the owner never did a thing to it. Needless to say when I went to pull it home the drum brakes were completely frozen up, tires were dry rotted and the brake fluid had the consistence of mud. Time will take it's toll on these mechanical devices.

JimN
05-26-2011, 02:13 PM
JimN. It is a Mastercraft trailer.

I inspected the trailer myself when I purchased it, and everything looked perfectly fine. These problems have surfaced since my purchase.

Can I have your garage?

Brian B
05-26-2011, 02:23 PM
Can I have your garage?

Nope! If I were outside in the heat doing this job I'd really be hating it! lol

pmkkdx
05-26-2011, 02:25 PM
[QUOTE=Brian B;756634] JimN. It is a Mastercraft trailer. [QUOTE]

are you sure? check the ID plate on the tongue to be positive, get serial # and have that checked out thru your MC dealer or the factory.

I found out the hard way mine was a CA afermarket manufactured trailer with merely a MC sticker put on it.

JimN
05-26-2011, 02:39 PM
Nope! If I were outside in the heat doing this job I'd really be hating it! lol

I have a friend in Apache Junction with a 2400 ft garage at his house. I was out there at the end of March to buy a cargo van and since his lift was busy (he's converting a '70 GTX into a Super Bird), we had to borrow his friends' lift and I had to work outside. In the nice, warm, sunny weather. 80- 90 and sunny every day. Oh, the horror.

JimN
05-26-2011, 02:40 PM
[QUOTE=Brian B;756634] JimN. It is a Mastercraft trailer. [QUOTE]

are you sure? check the ID plate on the tongue to be positive, get serial # and have that checked out thru your MC dealer or the factory.

I found out the hard way mine was a CA afermarket manufactured trailer with merely a MC sticker put on it.

Nah, the fenders, bow support and the rest look like an MC trailer.

MC4SNETS
05-26-2011, 03:28 PM
I have the same 2001 MasterCraft trailer. Everything on the trailer is made by UFP (http://www.ufpnet.com/) - Entire brake system, axles and your "boat buddy"

When I was dealing with what I thought was an axle problem, I did some research and found this out.

kskonn
05-26-2011, 03:53 PM
BTW. If you have an accident with an injury and DPS finds that you've tampered with or disabled your brakes you're going to be cited for the accident, or ticketed and who knows what kind of mess it could turn into....

I checked with DPS and did some research before purchasing, but thanks for looking out. Boat towing laws in Texas are below.

FYI... If it makes you feel better about my decision amking- I tow about 2 miles to a boat ramp, at a slow rate of speed. I have spent the last 2 months getting my boat back to "out of the factory condition"(upholstry being done now). the trailer was a mastercraft trailer that had been neglected for years, probably used 7 times before I purchased. After inspecting the trailer, both myself and the mastercraft dealer that I use felt it was best to order the whole assembly, master cylinder, actuator etc... as well as one new loaded axel from mastercraft, The spindles on one of my Axels was shot. I could order a new axel for 600 dollars vs trying to replace the spindles which were welded in place by the previous owner.

Boat Towing Laws in Texas
Maximum Speed Limit: 55
Maximum Dimensions for trailer:N/A'L x 8'6"W x 13'6"H
Maximum Length with Trailer:65'
Minimum Weight requiring Separate Trailer Brakes:4500
Trailer Equipment Requirements:
Safety Chains:Y
Brakelights:Y
Taillights:Y
Clearance Lights:Y (If over 80" wide.)
License Light:Y
Turn Signals:Y
Reflectors:Y
Flares:Y
Breakaway Brakes: Y (Over 3000 lbs.)
Tiedowns:Y
Two Trailers:N
Insurance:Y
Wide Trailer Permit Phone Number: 800-299-1700 Wire: 440-234-2081

Brian B
05-27-2011, 12:08 PM
Well. I got all the parts and everything is installed. New pads, new rotors, new clips and springs, new master......

All that left is greasing the wheel bearings and bleeding the brakes.... I tried last night with a vacuum pump bleeder and could seem to get a steading stream of fluid. Today I'm going to lower the tongue as low as possible and see if that helps!

nickespi
05-27-2011, 12:24 PM
Well. I got all the parts and everything is installed. New pads, new rotors, new clips and springs, new master......

All that left is greasing the wheel bearings and bleeding the brakes.... I tried last night with a vacuum pump bleeder and could seem to get a steading stream of fluid. Today I'm going to lower the tongue as low as possible and see if that helps!

You may need to pump the actuator to fully bleed the system. Just use a screwdriver to pump it.

ahhudgins
05-27-2011, 02:40 PM
When I bought my 200VRS I bought some years ago I was told by the PO that the trailer had about 150 miles on it.The Trailer looked like new. Unfortunately the owner never did a thing to it. Needless to say when I went to pull it home the drum brakes were completely frozen up, tires were dry rotted and the brake fluid had the consistence of mud. Time will take it's toll on these mechanical devices.

Must be something about the 200VRS (ha ha). Got mine from a dealer and the trailer was perfect. I even stuck my finger in the master cylinder and the fluid looked clean. My guess was that the whole system had been frozen for years from being in storage and the dealer dumped some fluid in it. I wish now I had converted to disk brakes but I replaced the master cylinder, wheel cylinders, shoes and lines. If I knew then what I know now.

Brian B
05-27-2011, 03:40 PM
So I'm using a power bleader and I cannot get a steady stream of fluid with no air. Been through a ton of fluid already! Someone please throw me a bone! I'm almost there and off to the lake!

G-Star
05-27-2011, 04:01 PM
So I'm using a power bleader and I cannot get a steady stream of fluid with no air. Been through a ton of fluid already! Someone please throw me a bone! I'm almost there and off to the lake!

Make sure your brake line connections are tight on the master cylinder and the calipers. Air must be entering the system somewhere.

flipper
05-27-2011, 04:17 PM
JimN. It is a Mastercraft trailer.

I inspected the trailer myself when I purchased it, and everything looked perfectly fine. These problems have surfaced since my purchase.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that is a Sport Boat Trailers trailer. They build a lot of them out here. Very well built trailers from my experience. I'd almost put money that's what that one is.

G-Star
05-27-2011, 04:39 PM
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that is a Sport Boat Trailers trailer. They build a lot of them out here. Very well built trailers from my experience. I'd almost put money that's what that one is.

What makes you say that?
To my untrained eye, it looks pretty MasterCraftey... :D
Although, the fenders look like they might be steel? Enlightenment, please...

flipper
05-27-2011, 04:59 PM
What makes you say that?
To my untrained eye, it looks pretty MasterCraftey... :D
Although, the fenders look like they might be steel? Enlightenment, please...
Steel fenders with diamond plate tops, the shape of the cross pieces under the boat (MC trailers may be the same, I can't keep track), and the rim for the spare isn't an MC rim. Looks almost exactly like my trailer down to the decal.

bturner2
05-28-2011, 08:43 AM
Must be something about the 200VRS (ha ha). Got mine from a dealer and the trailer was perfect. I even stuck my finger in the master cylinder and the fluid looked clean. My guess was that the whole system had been frozen for years from being in storage and the dealer dumped some fluid in it. I wish now I had converted to disk brakes but I replaced the master cylinder, wheel cylinders, shoes and lines. If I knew then what I know now.

I spent three years suffering with those brakes. Even went to the extreme of replacing the whole backing plate assemblies but then could never get them centered correctly and had problems with the shoes either dragging or not engaging. I finally sucked it up and replaced everything with UFP disks from the master cylinder to the rotors. I owned it like that for 4 years. Switching to disc was the best money I spent on that boat. Really made a difference in towing.

Kyle
05-28-2011, 10:21 AM
So I'm using a power bleader and I cannot get a steady stream of fluid with no air. Been through a ton of fluid already! Someone please throw me a bone! I'm almost there and off to the lake!

Loosen the furthest calipers bleeder. Put a vaccume hose on bleeder and run it to a can or water bottle with brake fluid in it. Pump actuator until no air comes out. Tighten bleeder valve and do the opposite side.

Will take you 20 min total.

Brian B
06-01-2011, 06:55 PM
Well guys, I got the trailer done just in time to detail the boat Friday night (until 2:00 am) and we made it to the lake by noon on Saturday! I used the boat Saturday afternoon, and spent the next few days riding in my buddies PWT XStar. That boat is incredible! 10K System, 450 hp, and a killer wake. I'll post some more pics in the memorial Weekend thread!

Philscbx
06-01-2011, 10:18 PM
Mine has no brakes from factory, So I make sure I don't need to hit them much.
The boat can push when you don't want it too.
I'll mod install electric vs surge hyd.

In all my travels to Europe, all trailers come standard with brakes on all wheels, and E brake lever on the tongue to lock trailer in place.
Makes so much sense & safety.