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josepcedwards
05-21-2011, 12:59 AM
OK so two week ago i added a sub 4 speakers and two amps. We headed out to the lake to jam some tunes and ride. I shut the boat off...... When I went to start it back up the starter was dragging and it didnt start. I shut off the amps and tried starting every so often. On my last try before starting to flag someone down it started. We headed back to the dock... When I got there i shut it off and tried starting it again it would hardly turn the starter over. When I go home I puilled out the battery and it had 12+ volts on it??????? I also took the alternator off and had it tested... It was bad. I had it rebuilt! Everything good!!!! NOT!! Head to the lake yesterday and shut the boat on and off a few times. WE shut it off and pulled the rope and and talked for a few mins and when we went to leave it didnt want to start. The start sounded weak. I let it sit for about 10 min and it like the battery charged it self "SOME" enough to get it started. Got back to the dock and it wouldnt hardly turn the starter over!!!???? Got home this afternoon and it started right up in the driveway...... I NEED HELP!!!!!

1981 S&S 351w

thatsmrmastercraft
05-21-2011, 01:20 AM
1. Remove, clean and replace pos. and neg. at battery and ground at block.
2. While battery is disconnected, charge it and take it to get tested.
3. Remove starter and take along with battery to be tested. Lube shaft prior to replacing.

If both battery and starter test OK, chances are your battery connecting were bad.

Drawing too much juice to power the sound system can cause problems.

EricB
05-21-2011, 01:30 AM
Like, how old are you? Do you know what a DVOM meter is, and can you use one?

If so, then we can help. Otherwise, it may be best to leave diagnostics to people who can help you. It could prove to be less costly than it already has been for you.

thatsmrmastercraft
05-21-2011, 01:43 AM
Like, how old are you? Do you know what a DVOM meter is, and can you use one?

If so, then we can help. Otherwise, it may be best to leave diagnostics to people who can help you. It could prove to be less costly than it already has been for you.

Some people here can't even spell DVOM:rolleyes:

josepcedwards
05-21-2011, 08:32 AM
Like, how old are you? Do you know what a DVOM meter is, and can you use one?

If so, then we can help. Otherwise, it may be best to leave diagnostics to people who can help you. It could prove to be less costly than it already has been for you.

Im 25 and very good with a DVOM. The battery has been tested andit has new battery post. When the boat is running im only getting around 12 at the battery. Where is the voltage reg at?? could that be a problem?

1redTA
05-21-2011, 09:52 AM
starter solenoid?

oxberger
05-21-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm betting it's a connection problem or a cable issue. I had a similar problem and after hours of throwing money and time at it found out that the cable casing had a small crack in it and the cable had corrosion on it. When the cable got hot enough there wasn't enough juice flowing to start the boat. replaced the cable and no more starting issues. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Definitely start with Peter's suggestions, that should find the issue for you.

EricB
05-21-2011, 11:17 AM
To start out, battery needs to be at least 12.4 v. static. This will indicate that it is about 75% charged.
Put your DVOM (on the DC volts setting) across the battery terminals with Key off, engine off and read V. Keep meter across battery and open engine cover and pull coil wire from the dist. cap and ground it to the intake. Turn key the start and crank for 10 to 15 sec. to see what your battery will do under a load. Record the voltage reading. This test will tell you alot...

1. If the engine cranks slowly and battery voltage stays above 10.5 v (approx). then you have a high resistance connection in the starting system somewhere.
2. If the engine cranks slowly and the battery voltage drops to 8V or lower, then your source (battery) is defective or your starter is failing. Now you will need to determine which.

3. If the dang thing will not act-up when attempting to test it, then you will need to run it in the lake and get it to act up. Take your meter with you to the lake and test under the complaint condition. But here is the interesting part to this: if it only acts up when it's at operating temp and after you stop the engine, first thing to do is to open cover and pull coil wire from dist. cap and ground it. Attempt to crank engine again and if the problem "magically" fixes itself, then you have a ignition timing issue. This indicates excess slop in the chain and gears and will then need new chain and gears.
Good luck....keep us posted!

Kyle
05-21-2011, 12:11 PM
If this started immediately after a stereo install let's take a few steps back and see how wires and cables are connected and where they are connected.

Just to be clear
If you are saying the complete stereo system is off along with all other electrical components when still not starting then I would say you have a secondary issue.

Always always always start with a good known battery. Load test it

Check pos and neg connections on starter and block and battery and solenoid

Make sure solenoid is not causing resistance use ohms here with your meter


I would get the boat get to operating temp. Make it to where it will not start. Try starting it a few times. Then touch cables running to the starter. I bet one is hot, not warm but hot. That's the one with high resistance.

My guess your starter is bad and it is causing super high resistance when it's hot from a hot block. Then you try and start it and over load the cable that runs to the starter making that cable hot. It's early in the year and moist air has settled in the starter probably causing issues with the armature. I have been on a boat stuck like you and it was the starter took less than 5 min to diagnose without multi meter.



I seriously doubt the ignition or coil are bad as it would more than likely stop running or run like crap, it would not wait for you to turn it off before acting up. It would have high resistance all the time when starting or running. Timing chain and gears would effect timing and that would cause it to run rough all of the time not intermittent.

EricB
05-21-2011, 01:33 PM
No. A timing chain can gain slack and cause erratic timing. It does show as a "intermittent" problem that resuls as high timing advance which will cause the starter to fight against the engine trying to fire too early.. That is why I suggest taking the ignition out of the equasion by grounding the coil wire. I do not believe the coil is bad either and did not suggest to replace it.

I do agree that checking the temperature of cables and connections is also a way to determine if there is a problem. A dvom is more accurate and will tell you without the potential of hurting yourself. Also, if it gets hot, thats an indication of too much current flow which would indicate a short.

cbryan70
05-21-2011, 02:11 PM
pictures of the install? curious where you installed/how you installed all the speakers

Kyle
05-21-2011, 03:03 PM
If a stretched timing chain was the case it would run bad and have issues starting. We only have starting issues. Thus eliminating timing chain.

Built many of engines. Actually I used to do it for a living at a caddy dealer not out of my garage or under a tree. I'm not questioning anyones judgment but in this particular incidence the chain seems to be fine.

josepcedwards
05-22-2011, 12:19 AM
When running the boat runs great. Idols good, runs smooth, ect. I do know for a fact that it only happens when the boat is hot. I installed car audio professional for 5 years, so Im almost sure the system is not the main cause. Did installing two amp cause a 30 year alternator go bad... Yes It prob did. The boat is all original when it comes to the engine, like the alternator (was) starter and it that good stuff. I had the batter tested two weeks ago and out of 325 cranking amps it tested GOOD at 323 cranking amps. Im going to test all the suggestions tomorrow. Thanks for all the great input!!!! Maybe this will be an easy fix.

cbryan70
05-22-2011, 10:56 AM
323 cold crank amps? That is LOW......

Kyle
05-22-2011, 11:27 AM
Agreed on too low cca. Most marine batteries for a v8 will be 800+- on cca.

Still bet the starter is having resistance issues internally. How long do you have to sit and wait before the boat will fire over again.

josepcedwards
05-22-2011, 12:00 PM
Agreed on too low cca. Most marine batteries for a v8 will be 800+- on cca.

Still bet the starter is having resistance issues internally. How long do you have to sit and wait before the boat will fire over again.

im sorry it was 623cca out of 625cca. This just started to happen. I hope by this evening i will have it all worked out.

josepcedwards
05-22-2011, 12:27 PM
OK just some quick numbers
@ the battery not running im getting 12.65v
@ the battery running im getting 12.94v
@ the alternator lm getting 13.88
Right above the voltage reg the is a white bar about 3in long that has 3 wires going to the left side that read 11.67 and on the right it is grounded. idk what that is.

Kyle
05-22-2011, 12:37 PM
Can you take a pic of this white bar.

Kyle
05-22-2011, 12:41 PM
Loosing over 1v from alt to battery seems weird. You should be getting close to 14v when running at the battery if you have a new alt. What amp alt did you purchase.

josepcedwards
05-22-2011, 01:01 PM
Loosing over 1v from alt to battery seems weird. You should be getting close to 14v when running at the battery if you have a new alt. What amp alt did you purchase.

Photobucket is down. The Alternator was just rebuilt. I will post pics asap

josepcedwards
05-22-2011, 01:04 PM
That white bar is a IGNITION RESISTOR.

Kyle
05-22-2011, 01:20 PM
Warm her up. Bet the starter or solenoid is bad. I bet the wire and starter casing gets hot

josepcedwards
05-22-2011, 01:31 PM
i agree! thanks!

josepcedwards
05-22-2011, 05:23 PM
Warm her up. Bet the starter or solenoid is bad. I bet the wire and starter casing gets hot

So I let her warm up and run for a good while. When I shut it and tried to start it again you could here there drag in the starter. I put the volt meter on the battery to see what it was dropping down too.... 10.4.

EricB
05-22-2011, 11:20 PM
.......which indicates a high resistance condition (not short). Just out of curiosity, did you disconnect the coil wire and ground out the coil (removing the ignition system from the equasion)?
I submitted suggestions on anothe post dealing with a voltage question and outlines the test called voltage drop. Look for that post and try those tests.

Kyle
05-22-2011, 11:36 PM
I wonder what the voltage at the starter not the battery.

I bet the starter is very tired and worn out. It gets hot and has super high resistance. It's like load testing a battery to the max. I bet if you took the starter off and had it tested it would probably test good because there is no load on it. The compression of the engine creates load and the starter is saying I'm tired of spinning this engine over.

This would cause severe voltage drop at the battery while trying to crank.

josepcedwards
05-23-2011, 12:36 AM
The starter is trashed! If you were a 30 year old starter, wouldnt you be tired by now?

Kyle
05-23-2011, 12:43 AM
The starter is trashed! If you were a 30 year old starter, wouldnt you be tired by now?

Origional starter. Omg heck yes I would be tired and quit years ago. I say you got your moneys worth out of that thing or at least someone did.

josepcedwards
05-23-2011, 12:49 AM
Origional starter. Omg heck yes I would be tired and quit years ago. I say you got your moneys worth out of that thing or at least someone did.

Hahaha! I pulled it off and its kinda like "yea its bad" kinda thing.
Thanks for your help.

Kyle
05-23-2011, 01:09 AM
No prob. Glad we got it figured out fast and you can get back after skiing again quick.