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View Full Version : Do you let friends borrow your PWC?


wiltok
07-21-2005, 01:51 PM
I am having this long running disagreement with the sig other (soon to be fiance). We have a second home on a lake along with the usual compliment of water toys (X-9, Donzi, Sea Doo and Kawa Stand Up). We often have friends up to visit - and spend the day having fun on/in the water. Up until recently, we have let friends (and relatives for that matter) take out the Sea Doo to cruise around the lake. I am starting to get uncomfortable since our lake is getting sooooo busy - boats, tubers, skiers, jet skiers, you name it on the water. In Michigan, I understand that the registered owner of the boat is liable for the actions of the borrower (along with the borrower of the craft, I suppose). I want to stop letting others use it - since I think it is a huge liability (when they are out on their own - anything could happen). My g'friend, on the other hand, does not agree and thinks I am being overly cautious - and that it is rude not to let them go.

In addition, it irritates me that most of the people that take it out beat the crap out of it. Wake jumping, spins, full throttle passes are the norm (her brother asked me last weekend - after taking a ride an extremely busy day - does this thing really go 65 mph?). If I borrowed someones car - I certainly wouldn't neutral drop the trans, full throttle starts, go over bumps and lock up the brakes. Yet my PWC doesn't get the same consideration. I really baby my toys so they last a long time - I just cringe when I see someone else out there beating it up.

From my perspective, I have people up and we provide a place to stay, food, gas, tons of skiing, tubing, boating, etc... I think it is reasonable to request that they not use the PWC. What do you guys/girls think??

-Keith

p.s.. One analogy I used during a recent discussion with her - if a friend had a motorcycle I wouldn't expect to take it out if we were over for a bar-b-que. Why is this any different?

parks_jr_55
07-21-2005, 01:56 PM
When we had family up to our cabin, my dad just said that our insurace only covers our family to drive the MasterCraft. I hear ya on this one. I would not like someone else driving the MC so I bet its like that for your SeaDoo.

smsunman1
07-21-2005, 01:56 PM
If they want to cruise the lake tell them to use the pontoon.

bcampbe7
07-21-2005, 02:00 PM
If they want to cruise the lake tell them to use the pontoon.


Or buy their own SeaDoo and trailer it with them.

I don't think you are overreacting in the least bit. Does your g-friend consider the consequences if a relative was to crash the SeaDoo into another boat or PWC? Safety of your frineds is one thing, but financial liability is another. Just inform them that due to insurance restrictions you and the g-friend are the only ones covered.

smsunman1
07-21-2005, 02:00 PM
I ride mine like a demon with my hair on fire. I think these things are made to be run hard. I don't like running them down the center though, I fill like a target. Have your visitors ever had a boat or know the rules? If not they should stay off until.

smsunman1
07-21-2005, 02:04 PM
I just like the look on there faces when you tell them to take the Toon especialy 14,15,16 year olds. Ya know that face a two year old gets before they go bazerk

erkoehler
07-21-2005, 02:05 PM
Outside of my immediate family, Rockman and one other friend are all that are allowed to drive my boat. And I think Rockman is pretty well trained :D

parks_jr_55
07-21-2005, 02:08 PM
Outside of my immediate family, Rockman and one other friend are all that are allowed to drive my boat. And I think Rockman is pretty well trained :D

The only other people that have driven our MasterCraft, are our friends from California, that had a 205V and knew what they were doing.

maristarman
07-21-2005, 02:10 PM
In Michigan, I understand that the registered owner of the boat is liable for the actions of the borrower (along with the borrower of the craft, I suppose). I want to stop letting others use it - since I think it is a huge liability (when they are out on their own - anything could happen). My g'friend, on the other hand, does not agree and thinks I am being overly cautious - and that it is rude not to let them go.

Find out for sure. No point in arguing with the missus about things you're guessing about. Call your insurance company and see what the actual liability is.

From my perspective, I have people up and we provide a place to stay, food, gas, tons of skiing, tubing, boating, etc... I think it is reasonable to request that they not use the PWC. What do you guys/girls think??

Agree with you on that one. I let my brother in law drive our boat on Shasta one time. Dude started getting a little crazy and I didn't hesitate to kick him off the helm.

If you've been letting folks use your toys all along, not letting them do it now will be a tough sell. If it is a big liability as you suspect, thats your stick. I'm sure your girlfried wouldn't want you to lose your house on the lake, all your toys, not to mention your @$$ if you got sued.

p.s.. One analogy I used during a recent discussion with her - if a friend had a motorcycle I wouldn't expect to take it out if we were over for a bar-b-que. Why is this any different?

Its not. Nice analogy.

djhuff
07-21-2005, 02:11 PM
I'd let them ride it, but not to "cruise the lake" They should stay near your dock so that you can tell if they are being idiots.

erkoehler
07-21-2005, 02:13 PM
I'd let them ride it, but not to "cruise the lake" They should stay near your dock so that you can tell if they are being idiots.


Maybe tell them that the insurance changed, and they need to take a PWC safety course if they want to ride the toys.....

Evan Jones
07-21-2005, 02:14 PM
Boat is definitely not loaned out to anyone who is not an experienced inboard driver, but for some reason I don't have a problem with the waverunner. We are not on a busy lake though. I guess maybe you could limit it to quieter times. Those PWCs are made to rip. I can't see myself not letting the company borrow it.

Liability is huge though, so a little training or rules might make you feel a little better. I totally see where you are coming from though. Good luck with the fiance.

smsunman1
07-21-2005, 02:14 PM
I'd let them ride it, but not to "cruise the lake" They should stay near your dock so that you can tell if they are being idiots.
what he said

erkoehler
07-21-2005, 02:16 PM
I should say though, that the MC has never gone out without me in it or behind it..

MarkP
07-21-2005, 02:17 PM
what he saidWhat they said!!

If they have to ride it to keep peace, why tell them the insurance changed?? just tell them to take a course and keep it near the house..

parks_jr_55
07-21-2005, 02:18 PM
Maybe tell them that the insurance changed, and they need to take a PWC safety course if they want to ride the toys.....

Good idea ERK. I was going to say to say that the insurance changed and that it does not allow anyone except (girlfriend and family) to ride it.

Crash
07-21-2005, 02:20 PM
Tough call. This country is getting crazier and crazier with lawsuits and non-lawabiding activities. I think I would agree with you, perhaps show more leancy based on age (maturity) and inactivity on the lake. We've ALL seen and experienced first hand how dangerous an unskilled marine motorist (PWC/BOAT/ETC.) can be.

wiltok
07-21-2005, 02:23 PM
Wow - lots of great input. I just did a little research - I was correct:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=mcl-324-80207&highlight=

Workin' 4 Toys
07-21-2005, 02:25 PM
When we had family up to our cabin, my dad just said that our insurace only covers our family to drive the MasterCraft. I hear ya on this one. I would not like someone else driving the MC so I bet its like that for your SeaDoo.
If this is true, then in theory the girlfriend/fiance wouldn't be covered either.

parks_jr_55
07-21-2005, 02:29 PM
If this is true, then in theory the girlfriend/fiance wouldn't be covered either.
Good point

Workin' 4 Toys
07-21-2005, 02:30 PM
Tough call. This country is getting crazier and crazier with lawsuits and non-lawabiding activities. I think I would agree with you, perhaps show more leancy based on age (maturity) and inactivity on the lake. We've ALL seen and experienced first hand how dangerous an unskilled marine motorist (PWC/BOAT/ETC.) can be.

Very true. Tell them to get their own!!

dog paw
07-21-2005, 02:30 PM
I have to agree with you Kieth. The liability thing in itself should be enough. It makes you the a$$hat but at least you will not be on the opposite side of the courtroom with your "friend" or worse yet there funeral The list of people who use any of my equipment is very short.

Memorial day weekend the wife and I were cruseing into a marina on our lake, waved to a dude on his way out on a rental sea doo 10 min later a lady and I were doing CPR on him. He did not make it Seems as soon as he got past the no wake area he turned in front of a boat. Split second mistake and he was dead. I can still see the foamy blood spray out of his ears while we were working him.

AirJunky
07-21-2005, 02:32 PM
I live in a neighborhood that shares about 300' of beachfront. A couple who lived down the street from us has a Honda & a SeaDoo PWC that they ride & loan out all the time. 2 summers ago, he let a mom & her daughter (who also live in our neighborhood) go ride the 2 PWCs. They had an accident where one of the PWCs ran up & across the top of the other, damaging both heavily & hurting the younger girl. The mother blames the owner for not telling her the rules & characteristics of these boats & refuses to pay anything for damages. She stopped short of making the PWC owner pay for medical bills for the girl's injuries.
.................And our lake isn't even all that busy.

It would be nice if others could learn from this mistake but I suspect that won't be the case. Good luck with your own lessons & the somewhat niave fiance.

Granite_33
07-21-2005, 02:45 PM
In addition, it irritates me that most of the people that take it out beat the crap out of it. Wake jumping, spins, full throttle passes are the norm (her brother asked me last weekend - after taking a ride an extremely busy day - does this thing really go 65 mph?).


AHHHHHHHH........family politics.

So.......what the h*ll are they good for other than doing the above??

To me, isn't the idea of having a jet ski to go out.......do turns, spins, jump wakes? Jet skis are nice to have......but unless you are ocean or big lake riding.....they are not much fun to just sit on. (scream a big Sea Doo off of some ocean rollers and you know what I mean :eek3: ) My opinion.

Other than that, there is no good reason to own one.....other than you can't afford a boat.....(and you have that covered :D )

From a boat owners perspective I hear you......
"I go out of my way to invite people up, and they beat the hell out of my equipment!!!......"
From an invitee perspective......
"Keith makes some serious Jack!! Hes got a house and all these toys up here but he won't let us touch them!!!" WHY? Answering them with "I don't want to be liable for your actions" WILL cause family issues. I guarantee a pandoras box worth. :noface: Big potential for ill will.

Lay out some guidelines......when the lake is busy...no acting like a jerk on the jet ski.
Or how about......after you learn to slalom and wakeboard, you can jet ski.
Or how about you establish your own jet skiiing hours......early in the AM, later in the PM.....when there is less traffic. During busy times they sit.

Also, I don't agree with the motorcycle analogy. Motorcycles are much more complicated pcs of equipment that take more skill than a jet ski.
As a non biker....I would never ask anyone with a motorcyle to let me ride it, because I don't have enough experience riding.
The skill needed to ride a jet ski? Working thumb.

You have the right to do whatever you want........I think that being serious about the guidelines for using the Jet skis is in order. Moreover, I think that the guidelines you give to your friends and relatives will be appreciated for the reasons why.

:twocents:

wiltok
07-21-2005, 02:46 PM
Actually, the Sea Doo is in her name. So if I was riding it, we could both be sued (which would happen in either case). We both do have $1 million umbrellas - which I am thinking of raising to $2 just to be safe. Some scary stories out there - that's for sure. A few weeks ago I was almost broadsided by a PWC - she turned just in time (I was operating at a no wake speed in my Donzi). I'm sure this arguement will continue - but I think I am going to insist on this one....

bradamerry
07-21-2005, 02:48 PM
They are your toys, not theirs..

I had a cousin tell me I needed a openbow boat, so he could ride up front.. I told him he needed a BOAT...


Her parents and yours, should get to ride..

AirJunky
07-21-2005, 02:53 PM
You have the right to do whatever you want........I think that being serious about the guidelines for using the Jet skis is in order. Moreover, I think that the guidelines you give to your friends and relatives will be appreciated for the reasons why.

Or sell the PWCs & be done with the problems. :D

Granite_33
07-21-2005, 02:56 PM
Or sell the PWCs & be done with the problems. :D

Actually, one of my suggestions was going to be to get rid of them!!!

Too funny!!!

Ryan
07-21-2005, 02:56 PM
I know injuries and liability are very serious subjects.

But, no one chips in for GAS???? That's crazy.

I always thought I'd have a Seadoo before a boat. But, the whole trust issue is why I never did it. I thought I'd get over it with my MC - until my brother-in-law put it in the sand stopping the engine when he threw it into hard reverse! Somehow yelling "Go left" twice ment trun right and give it throttle...That's with me in the boat! I figure if I ever do that again, I'll be kneeling behind the driver with the kill cord in hand.

It sucks to be paranoid, others can surely drive (or learn to) as well as me. Why shouldn't I trust? Left, Right, Left... Left, Right, Left... Oh yeah, that's why!

I suggest you actually switch insurance - tell your woman it's cheaper and make sure it only includes those you trust. Then you're not lying to anyone when you pull the insurance excuse. Better yet just sell the Seadoo and buy a new ski, wakeboard and have gas $ to pay for these great folks.

bradamerry
07-21-2005, 02:59 PM
Just tell them the damn things are broke down... Parts coming in on Tuesday and you and the girlfriend don't use them for the weekend.. :D

OhioProstar
07-21-2005, 03:01 PM
I am surprised that Rick hasn't chimed in and told you to not get married and do what you think is best.....

bradamerry
07-21-2005, 03:04 PM
I am surprised that Rick hasn't chimed in and told you to not get married and do what you think is best.....
He must be napping.. ;)

Workin' 4 Toys
07-21-2005, 03:06 PM
These are some very interesting ways of getting rid of friends. But I guess if they disrespect the equipment, who wants them. My friends have never been easy on anything I loan out, tools, toys, whatever. I guess thats why I don't anymore. Now that I think about it, I guess thats why they stopped asking....

3event
07-21-2005, 03:08 PM
Inexperienced riders on the seadoo = too much liability. Show the gal some of the stories from this post. You can also argue that your guests are more likely to get injured riding the seadoo (vs boat) even if they are operating responsibly. You are concerned for their safety and your financial future.

My friends frequently ask when I am going to consider getting a pwc. I tell them NEVER. And if someone asks to bring theirs out to our lake for the day I find some excuses to make it sound like too much trouble. The only way to completely avoid this problem is to not have one - everyone and his hillbilly brother wants to ride them!

Good luck!

Granite_33
07-21-2005, 03:17 PM
Inexperienced riders on the seadoo = too much liability. Show the gal some of the stories from this post. You can also argue that your guests are more likely to get injured riding the seadoo (vs boat) even if they are operating responsibly. You are concerned for their safety and your financial future.

My friends frequently ask when I am going to consider getting a pwc. I tell them NEVER. And if someone asks to bring theirs out to our lake for the day I find some excuses to make it sound like too much trouble. The only way to completely avoid this problem is to not have one - everyone and his hillbilly brother wants to ride them!

Good luck!

Good One........ :)

Like I said earlier..........qualifications to jet ski?
Working thumb....... :eek:

parks_jr_55
07-21-2005, 03:21 PM
Actually, the Sea Doo is in her name. So if I was riding it, we could both be sued (which would happen in either case). We both do have $1 million umbrellas - which I am thinking of raising to $2 just to be safe. Some scary stories out there - that's for sure. A few weeks ago I was almost broadsided by a PWC - she turned just in time (I was operating at a no wake speed in my Donzi). I'm sure this arguement will continue - but I think I am going to insist on this one....

If it's her jetski, shouldn't she have the say. And the liability.

caden
07-21-2005, 03:27 PM
Law in TN requires teenagers pass a PWC safety course. Owner can be cited for letting teenager w/o course drive. So that cuts out the teenagers for us. Adults, we usually let them drive the PWC.
Never the MC unless they are experianced.

wiltok
07-21-2005, 03:28 PM
If it's her jetski, shouldn't she have the say. And the liability.

Yes - but since we both own the lake house - we ultimately share the liability. And soon, her name will be on the primary home - more risk...

Footin
07-21-2005, 03:36 PM
Answer is: Sell the waverunners and don't get married.

dog paw
07-21-2005, 04:22 PM
Man I'm a little taken back with the same stupid "Jet Skis suck" attitude. I thought this board might be a couple steps above that :confused: Sound like the "thick sculled lemmings" (as I heard someone elase call them) in a 10 cent runabout cursing the snobby kids with the "monkey bar boats" :rant:

Oh well...

stevo137
07-21-2005, 04:38 PM
Question 1: Don't let them use the Jet Skis. What's the worst that can happen?
Question 2: Let them use the Jet Skis. What's the worst that can happen?
We recently visited some friends cottage in South Haven MI area on a very nice small lake and had a good time using their jetski but the lake is mostly locals and very orderly.
It's a tough call but it also depends on the person and how responsible they are.
And the BIG QUESTION. Have they been drinking alcohol? If so, no way! :noface:

maristarman
07-21-2005, 04:50 PM
Man I'm a little taken back with the same stupid "Jet Skis suck" attitude. I thought this board might be a couple steps above that :confused: Sound like the "thick sculled lemmings" (as I heard someone elase call them) in a 10 cent runabout cursing the snobby kids with the "monkey bar boats" :rant:

Oh well...

You wouldn't happen to own a PWC, would you? ;)

Next thing you know you'll be telling us that you pull a tube behind your Mastercraft, too. :eek:

To some people on this board (not me), thats a hangin offense.

bcampbe7
07-21-2005, 04:52 PM
You could do as I do...
A friend of mine is always wanting to use my boat when I go out of town.
Whether he is joking or not, I don't know.
I always tell him that if he can get into the house, find the keys, get the boat hooked-up and get out of their all before the cops show up due to the alarm going off, he can take it out. He also needs to return it in the condition he "stole" it in and with a full tank of gas. He hasn't tried yet...

smsunman1
07-21-2005, 04:56 PM
keys, we don't need no stinking keys

6ballsisall
07-21-2005, 04:57 PM
Heres my humble opinion take it for what its worth.

If I were to ever buy jetskis again (had a sweet racing standup years ago) I'd continue to use them for what I paid for. Riding and enjoying them. I had a buddy that loaned me his 2 sitdowns for a week long trip to Lake Powell a few years back but he also knew I was responsible and knew how to ride and if I did wreck them, I'd unquestionably pay for any damages. As for liability, check with your insurance company on that. I think if I was in your shoes I'd do one or more of a few things.

1. Put a rev limiter on them so they don't max it out. Most of the new ones have the ability to do this digitally from what I understand. If not, it would not be hard to make something mechanical
2. Set guidelines for riders. Tell them what you expect of them. "Don't go over here or make sure you avoid getting near boats"
3. Make riders go out with you and watch how they handle your ride. If they seem irresponsible or wreckless pull the key
4. Make darn sure they know what they are doing before handing over the keys(Look over shoulders before cranking a hard turn, if you flip it over which way to upright it, if you get stranded what to do, etc....)
5. Make darn sure they haven't been drinking before going out.

I think if you did these things and had prior checked on the insurance issue beyond a reasonable doubt you did the proper things to insure the safety of your users. Be firm with the rules and let people know ahead of time (in a nice way) that you'll pull the plug on the fun if they don't follow the rules, people will respect that. Lastly, remember going to the lake is suppose to be fun and relaxing for everyone. Don't forget that!!

dog paw
07-21-2005, 05:12 PM
You wouldn't happen to own a PWC, would you? ;)

Next thing you know you'll be telling us that you pull a tube behind your Mastercraft, too. :eek:

To some people on this board (not me), thats a hangin offense.



LOL! Yes I have a couple. One is a "true 65mph ski" also. There speedos are not quite as nice as a MC's.

TUBES? I am ashamed to say I have one. Its hanging on the wall of the garage has not seen water in years. I have told the wife I was going to strap a few dive knives to the side of my Sea Doo and have some fun with the tubers Been a LONG time since a tube has been on the back of mine hehe. I have suffered more physical damage by a tube that any other water toy I have used..

milkmania
07-21-2005, 05:37 PM
prenuptual!!!

6ballsisall
07-21-2005, 05:40 PM
I have to agree with you Kieth. The liability thing in itself should be enough. It makes you the a$$hat but at least you will not be on the opposite side of the courtroom with your "friend" or worse yet there funeral The list of people who use any of my equipment is very short.

Memorial day weekend the wife and I were cruseing into a marina on our lake, waved to a dude on his way out on a rental sea doo 10 min later a lady and I were doing CPR on him. He did not make it Seems as soon as he got past the no wake area he turned in front of a boat. Split second mistake and he was dead. I can still see the foamy blood spray out of his ears while we were working him.


OMG!!! How traumatizing!! Sorry to hear you had to go thru that and more sorry to hear for his family!! :eek:

Bobby
07-21-2005, 05:47 PM
My mom let my older cousin use her Nautique a few years back when it was kept at the lake house. He went out, beat the living hell out of it and ruined the transmission. He did not help pay for it or help install the rebuilt trans. About a month after it was fixed he asked if he could use it again and I thought my dad was going to strangle him.

I wouldn't let anyone borrow any toy I had under any condition. It's just not worth it.

School Skier
07-21-2005, 06:13 PM
We don't let anyone else drive our M/C except immediate family! My son had a PWC a number of years ago one day the next door neighbor asked if he could use it during week while we all were home working, my son agreed to it. When my son got back to the lake later in the week the neighbors friend and relatives were all using it, he never loaned it out again.

The state of Wisconsin DNR has a web site with boating stats in those stats higher numbers of accidents are caused when people let other poeple use their watercraft's.

milkmania
07-21-2005, 06:17 PM
Man I'm a little taken back with the same stupid "Jet Skis suck" attitude. I thought this board might be a couple steps above that :confused: Sound like the "thick sculled lemmings" (as I heard someone elase call them) in a 10 cent runabout cursing the snobby kids with the "monkey bar boats" :rant:

Oh well...

It's not the Jet Skis suck attitude that I have....
it's just most of the dumbass jet ski drivers is what angers me.
I was trying to teach 5 kids how to ski, and the smokers wouldn't display any form if discipline. They made me incredible uncomfortable on the water with kids.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/mastercraft190/80.jpg

AirJunky
07-21-2005, 06:32 PM
Man I'm a little taken back with the same stupid "Jet Skis suck" attitude. I thought this board might be a couple steps above that :confused: Sound like the "thick sculled lemmings" (as I heard someone elase call them) in a 10 cent runabout cursing the snobby kids with the "monkey bar boats" :rant:

Oh well...

Guess I'm a "snobby kid" then. But at least I haven't t-boned another "monkey bar boat" like the dumba$$ on my lake....... on a calm day with very little traffic.
Guess I need to dig up the pictures of the boat after the accident.

milkmania
07-21-2005, 06:36 PM
It's not the Jet Skis suck attitude that I have....
it's just most of the dumbass jet ski drivers is what angers me.
I was trying to teach 5 kids how to ski, and the smokers wouldn't display any form if discipline. They made me incredible uncomfortable on the water with kids.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/mastercraft190/80.jpg

oh yeah, that picture and my paragraph have no relation to each other:rant:

BRAZOS 205
07-21-2005, 07:16 PM
Sell the Jet skis and buy your girlfriend a bigger diamond engagement ring. You will be happy and she will be happy.

dog paw
07-21-2005, 10:26 PM
[QUOTE=milkmania]It's not the Jet Skis suck attitude that I have....
it's just most of the dumbass jet ski drivers is what angers me.
I was trying to teach 5 kids how to ski, and the smokers wouldn't display any form if discipline. They made me incredible uncomfortable on the water with kids.


Sorry but I get a bit defensive when a group gets singled out. When I 'm out I see all the dumbasses and beleive me on our lake theres a lot of them and its just getting worse. We have law enforcement telling the bassboat gang to run the MFers over. Oh the if you read my past post the guy who killed the kid on the ski memorial day on our lake was a Bass pro /guide on the lake. That reminds me I need to get a HIV test for my effort to help. There are HUNDREDS of boat show boaters who should no way shape or form be on the water. Flinging there kids around on tubes the size of docks

Junky, you don't need a camara on our lake theres a incedent every weekend. Last saturday I saw a PWC plow into the side of a ocean going size boat blasting around in 10ft of water. The kid on the Hydroslide pretty much landed in the back of the boat. Last year a boat show boater plowed into my friends son (he was waiting for a pickup on a slide) he bounced off the front of the boat like a ninja turtle! No one was hurt The driver lived :D

Hey if I could fit it in the garage I'd have a tower too. Although I don't think a 84 was designed for one.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/bobrxdi/100_0304.jpg

bucky
07-21-2005, 11:17 PM
Imnsho, this whole issue comes down to safety. The liability comes from people or property possibly getting hurt, and you don't want anyone getting hurt. When it comes down to it, they are your toys, and your choice.
Several times I have had to step up and be "Another a$$hole with a Mastercraft". No problem.
As for the girl, you're wasting your time asking any man how to handle them. And the women won't tell.;)

DooSPX
07-21-2005, 11:28 PM
I dont think you are over reacting either. I only let a few peps (and I mean 3) ride my Doo. even when it was stock. and they only ride when im there and only go as far as I can see them. I taught each one for a while before they were allowed to run it. they know to be aware of EVERYONE on the water no matter how close or far.

Leroy
07-22-2005, 02:03 AM
As hard as it is to say NO, especially when the significant other is saying yes, you really need to do that. Getting a release doc signed with relatives is awkward to say the least. Being a policeman is tough, knowing they are beating the cr@p out of it is equally unpleasant.

Maybe you have to ask why have one of these things?

sizzler
07-22-2005, 03:30 AM
I'M FAIRLY LUCKY HERE........our lake has a no PWC policy.....they have their own seperate lake to annoy each other on.....we also have designated areas for sailing,canoeing and windsurfing so we all dont get tangled up with each other..........

sizzler
07-22-2005, 03:35 AM
regarding relatives/friends using toys...they have to have SBDA (ski boat drivers award) to drive on the lake.....which only my closest friends have....wife just got hers......had a load of old friends turn up the weekend to stay.......they brought more booze,food than was needed and filled the boat with gas on saturday and sunday......they know that this is the way to get re-invited........

guess i'm lucky to have good friends :friday:

Leroy
07-22-2005, 03:52 AM
(In my English accent)

I say old chap, if only we American's could get it right like you Brits!

I'm only kidding, and still laughing remembering the differences of living in Belgium. Remember you saying your wife was going to boat driving school (maybe we should have here!). I remember England and the rest of Europe having so many rules, controls, and instructional classes due to culture and population density. Still missing living over there!

sizzler
07-22-2005, 04:45 AM
yeah..rules work sometimes leroy.........

swap a few of them for some of your lakes.....

Bobby
07-22-2005, 05:06 AM
I'M FAIRLY LUCKY HERE........our lake has a no PWC policy.....they have their own seperate lake to annoy each other on.....we also have designated areas for sailing,canoeing and windsurfing so we all dont get tangled up with each other..........


What Utopian lake is this????? I would pack up and head to that lake for a weekend of jet ski-less skiing. :friday:

sizzler
07-22-2005, 05:16 AM
nice lake complex in lincolnshire england..........they keep to their water ,we stick to ours....we only meet in the club-house :friday:

bradamerry
07-22-2005, 09:28 AM
There are alot of folks with boats that have no idea how to use them. Makes the lakes very dangerous and sometimes people get hurt, or worse. I have taken a NO BS Stand on this. If we are sking and you are acting an A$$ to close to us, I will chase you down and tell you about it, in front of your whole damn family. Farmer chased down a jet skier last yr at Greeson. He was pulling Brandy through the course and the Jet Skier was coming in from the other end.. That guy needed a butt kicking.

Remember I am an A$$hole, I don't need any more practice!!!! ;)

SD190EVO
07-22-2005, 10:00 AM
I'm pretty anal about my M/C and nobody takes it out without me. My PWCs on the other hand are a different story. I'll let anyone take them and now that they have had a few nice dock-dings I could really care less. It has actually really made them more fun. I used to be anal about them too and always use fenders and such. Now even I let them ram into the docs. Way less stress. What the heck, I'm not going to be burried in them and even if I was, who cares if your casket has a few scratches on it.

As for the liability, that is why you have insurance. You can get a half-mil of liability for almost nothing and that will save you having to lie to your friends.

As someone who's been around marinas and water a long time, it's always seemed to me that canoes, dingies, paddle boats and now PWCs are sort of 'available for use'. More like letting someone use your bicycle than a motorcycle.

Granite_33
07-22-2005, 10:07 AM
There are alot of folks with boats that have no idea how to use them. Makes the lakes very dangerous and sometimes people get hurt, or worse. I have taken a NO BS Stand on this. If we are sking and you are acting an A$$ to close to us, I will chase you down and tell you about it, in front of your whole damn family. Farmer chased down a jet skier last yr at Greeson. He was pulling Brandy through the course and the Jet Skier was coming in from the other end.. That guy needed a butt kicking.

Remember I am an A$$hole, I don't need any more practice!!!! ;)


Thats my kind of boater right there! :rant:

wiltok
07-22-2005, 10:23 AM
As someone who's been around marinas and water a long time, it's always seemed to me that canoes, dingies, paddle boats and now PWCs are sort of 'available for use'. More like letting someone use your bicycle than a motorcycle.

This is the crux of the agrument (well put!) - she shares your attitude and I guess that I don't ;)

Granite_33
07-22-2005, 10:55 AM
Wiltok......I'm still an advocate of early morning / late afternoon jet skiing hours.
Look at it this way.....if you say 6AM - 9AM are jet skiing hours.....you will soon find out how many of your friends are dedicated jet skiers. :D

I think only training and knowledge of jet skiers can minimize accidents....they are too fast.....and don't slow down like a boat does when you back off the throttle. You can peg the throttle and be on another boat in a flash.......

Moreover, I belive that jet skiers think that boaters are paying attention to them........when in fact they are not.

PWC's are safe as long as you know how to ride them........not sure about your lake, but the lakes around Coldwater have DNR officers riding PWCs......sidearms and all.

jwchapman
07-22-2005, 11:25 AM
Interesting positions - I guess it comes down to whatever people are personally comfortable with. My wife and I have a second house on the lake and a good assortment of toys.

I don't let anyone else drive my MasterCraft unless I am out with them - more for safety reasons that any other - it is old and pretty beat up (by a previous owner, not me - and it runs great).

On the other hand, I have a pair of SeaDoos that I will let pretty much anyone ride when they are out at the house with us. They are also fairly old but run great. I do give basic lessons for those who haven't ridden before and so far have not had many problems or issues (knock on wood). Which leads to an interesting story.

Two years ago I had the church youth group out for the day. I covered all the basic rules and told them where they should ride, safety, on-water training, etc. and turned them loose (you can start the notes of disbelief here).

Two 16 year olds were out together on one of the skis, riding well, out of the cove and back, etc. while we were getting lunch together. They asked if they could go back out for a few minutes until lunch was ready - I said sure. You can probably now see where this is heading.

After an hour or so, we started to get a little worried but figured they were just out having fun. The rest of the group was skiing with me, driving the other jet ski, paddle boat, kayak, swimming, etc. Time went by. After another hour or two we started to get a little worried. I went looking them in the boat - but it is a big lake. After another hour we were really worried. Finally we got a call from one of their mothers back home - they were lost - very, very, very lost as it turned out - even further down the lake than I had ever been. They kept thinking that the house was just around the next bend, corner, etc. They ran out of gas and were given some by people on the lake. They were given lemonade, food, directions (wrong of course) - it is a great lake.

Finally they called. I put the trailer on the truck and went and got them - they were that far away. Just a little sunburned and hungry - otherwise no damage.

I figure here everyone will divide into two camps. Those who think this is terrible, irresponsible and can't believe it. And those who think - wow, that will make a great story - and I bet they don't do that again (or maybe they will - you just never know). I will just say everyone had a great time, and did the next year as well. And I'm still letting people ride the jet skis - however there is now a nice laminated card in each of them with a map, addresses and phone numbers.

phecksel
07-22-2005, 12:28 PM
After a minor incident where a rider got stopped by the police for something less then no wake under the bridge, I made the decision that my wife and I are the only drivers. Combine that with dropping damage insurance (liability now tied to house), and we are totally responsible.

For some reason, jetskis = brainless stupidity

lakes Rick
07-22-2005, 12:32 PM
I am surprised that Rick hasn't chimed in and told you to not get married and do what you think is best.....

Never fear, I am always "watching"...

AH smokers.. Personally they remind me of the older Jet boats.. Whenever you see a MORON driving like he/she is drunk and out of control it used to alway be a jet boat. The smokers have taken over that position now.. Lets face it ALOT of accidents happen due to those noisy irritating worthless PITA.....

I never take a friend with me to purchase anything. I mean I just LOVE To spend other peoples money... BUY IT BUY IT, I hate pressure.. Same thing when its NOT theirs.. NOBODY cares about your stuff except your self.. I only have a few people who I let use anything of mine, as I take care of their belongings as well as they take care of mine... A few things that should NEVER be loaned out.. Chainsaws, dirtbikes/quads/3 wheelers, fast cars, pickups, smokers/jetski's or a boat...

Oregon requires a boating license now, so most of the time this point is moot..NO ONE under 16 gets to drive except with a licensed adult.. BOATING license that is.. Guess what MOST of your weekenders who want to just "hop on and go" don't have or have any idea they need one.........

Besides not having the "backup gene", most women do not have any problem loaning out "our" mechanical items.. WHY?, because they never are the ones to take care of them or fix them.. "oh dont worry that you smashed our boat and killed some people, hubby will fix it"... See what I mean.......

Lastly it would concern me that I am thinking about marrying someone who blows the liability of loaning out an item that has a high death rate without even caring about the risks.. AND to even argue with you about it???? Guaranteed no backup genes here.... Step back and take a deep breath..

Just my 02 cents....

zberger
07-23-2005, 12:08 PM
the lake that i go to..

NO PWC's or Tubes from 11am-6pm.. on the weekends, you can do whatever you want, whenever you want m-f.

this is nice, because i think PWC's are stupid and pointless.. why go race around by yourself when you can be out with 8 of your friends?

Just never really seen the point of them..

pdoppenheim
07-23-2005, 02:09 PM
I'll give up control of my MasterCraft when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

pdoppenheim
07-23-2005, 02:12 PM
It is unfair to characterize jetski operators as brainless morons. Unfair to the brainless morons that is. They are still several cuts above the jetskiers.

milkmania
07-23-2005, 02:31 PM
Chainsaws, dirtbikes/quads/3 wheelers, fast cars, pickups, smokers/jetski's or a boat...



sounds like we may have a story here:uglyhamme

shepherd
07-23-2005, 04:03 PM
Here's a solution: get rid of the SeaDoo. They're all just noisy irritating pests out on the lakes anyways... :rant:

It seems that anyone who gets onboard one of those things leaves his brain on the shore. Present company excepted of course :o I'm sure all you great skiboat operators would know better than chase behind waterskiiers and wakeboarders, tear through the slalom course while a skier is using it, etc.

So, if you can't part with it, just tell people insurance won't cover it, inform them of the MI law and hand them a beer (or offer to give them a pull).

Crash
07-25-2005, 12:01 AM
Witnessed a couple illustrations why you shouldn't let irresponsible friends drive your water toys this weekend. These guys were riding them hard to 'have fun' on someone else's PWC and Seadoo. Not sure what happended to the PWC, but they ended up walking the Seadoo home...