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NickP
05-11-2011, 10:00 PM
Background:
I have a 2004 Prostar 205V with an Indmar Predator 310hp TBI. I had a marine machine shop do complete refresh of the motor because the prior owner ingested water into it(pistons, rings, gaskets, TBI injectors, etc) (cam remained the same). I have about 4 hours on the refresh. The problem is when motor is rev’d over 2000 rpm it sputters and pukes. The primary symptom is fowled plugs(black soot) right away. After reading the posts here, I have replaced the fuel pump (runs at 32 psi without return clamped, 60psi with return clamped), MAP sensor, plugs twice (NGK $70 a set!!!), the throttle position censor, temperature sensor and the knock sensor… I’d replace the Crank position censor if it was used on this motor (I confirmed this with Indmar twice). The timing is dead on at 10 degress. The gas tank was taken out and all gas removed and replaced. I am thinking about changing out the kitchen sink as well. I've thown everthing else at it. I am going broke and pulling my fricking hair out!!

BTW Thank you to JimN for all his posted.

JimN
05-11-2011, 10:30 PM
Background:
I have a 2004 Prostar 205V with an Indmar Predator 310hp TBI. I had a marine machine shop do complete refresh of the motor because the prior owner ingested water into it(pistons, rings, gaskets, TBI injectors, etc) (cam remained the same). I have about 4 hours on the refresh. The problem is when motor is rev’d over 2000 rpm it sputters and pukes. The primary symptom is fowled plugs(black soot) right away. After reading the posts here, I have replaced the fuel pump (runs at 32 psi without return clamped, 60psi with return clamped), MAP sensor, plugs twice (NGK $70 a set!!!), the throttle position censor, temperature sensor and the knock sensor… I’d replace the Crank position censor if it was used on this motor (I confirmed this with Indmar twice). The gas tank was taken out and all gas removed and replaced. I am going broke and pulling my fricking hair out!!

BTW Thank you to JimN for all his posted.

Don't use the proverbial "parts cannon" to fix these problems. The sensors and stored codes will often tell you much of what you need to know. Verify with Indmar or MC that you can use the paper clip jumper to read codes before trying it but if you have black, sooty plugs, I would look at the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor plug and harness. If that's unplugged or is showing extremely low temperature (high resistance), it will run extremely rich. This raises another question- Which sensor did you replace? If you replaced one that doesn't have a yellow and a black wire, you replaced the one for the gauge, not the one that reports to the ECM. A bad fuel pump won't cause this. Also, clamping the return isn't the way to test fuel pressure- the way we were told to do it at training is: read the pressure at Key ON/Engine OFF, Idle, 2000RPM and WOT under load. This means it needs to be done on the water, not on the trailer.

Did you make sure to set base timing at 10°BTDC? I posted the procedure a few days ago.

Also, make sure the fuel tank vent isn't clogged- if you run it for any length of time and remove the gas cap, you shouldn't hear air being sucked into the tank. If this has any vacuum, your vent is clogged.

Did you check compression and cylinder leak down? What about a vacuum test?

NickP
05-11-2011, 10:50 PM
For me/this instance.. a parts cannon is an understatement.

This motor only has one temp sensor/ECT, which I replaced. Beings the guage shows 160 degrees and shares the sensor with the ECM, I think hte ECT is good.

For the timing: I jumpered the AB on the test plug and the motor did what it was supposed to (idle at 1000 rpm, etc) and I set it to exactly 10 degrees BTDC. I've checked this a few times.

My thought is the tank vent would limit the fuel (lean)... it's runnning really rich.

The check engine light hasn't come on. I just read the post about error code reading and jumping AB again. I'll check that.

I'll check the vacuum and compression. The motor only has 4 hours on it, but worth taking a look at.

NickP
05-12-2011, 01:54 AM
I checked the engine fault codes and came up with following sequences:
12122222424281811212 - dissecting this I get the "book ends" (only twice) and 22, 42 and 81. Using http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/ at the bottom for generic codes without Onboard Diagnostics (OBD-II) I get:
22 - TPS out of adjustment - Even though I replaced this... the perfect pass linkage keeps the throttle open a little bit. I'll adjust this and see if fixes it.

42 - EST circuit - using this diagram http://www.fieros.de/en/v6help/code42.html and these instructions to test it:
"To check the ignition module to see if the solid-state switch is capable of switching when the 5 volts are applied, the engine should not be running and the ECM connectors should be disconnected. An ohm meter and test light can be used. With the ohm meter on the EST circuit, it should read less than 500 ohms (in some cases, a lot less). Using a test light to battery voltage, probe the bypass wire. With this voltage applied to the bypass wire, the solid-state switch inside the ignition module should switch and the ohm meter on the EST circuit should go over 5,000 ohms."
from: http://www.justanswer.com/car/05fs1-fix-electronic-spark-timing-circuit.html#ixzz1M79axwWN
I'll try this tomorrow.

81 - transmission 2-3 error - this one I have no idea. Thoughts?

Does this seem like I am barking up the right tree?

banMBC
05-12-2011, 03:38 AM
Check the output of your alternator.

92 190 PS
05-12-2011, 10:09 AM
I can't find the old posts, but I know a lot of folks have had similar issues as yours and the issue was a screen in the fuel line. I wish I had a picutre of my brother in laws when we did it and I'm sure folks on here can describe what I'm talking about better than I, but on his there was a 90 degree check valve on the top of the tank and on one side of the valve was a screen. Took the valve and screen out and several small pieces of debri fell out right away. Cleaned the screen and put it back in and the problem was solved. Again, I've had this issue 2x once on a 93 MC and had the same issue with another friends 97 SN. Good luck.

JimN
05-12-2011, 01:12 PM
I checked the engine fault codes and came up with following sequences:
12122222424281811212 - dissecting this I get the "book ends" (only twice) and 22, 42 and 81. Using http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/ at the bottom for generic codes without Onboard Diagnostics (OBD-II) I get:
22 - TPS out of adjustment - Even though I replaced this... the perfect pass linkage keeps the throttle open a little bit. I'll adjust this and see if fixes it.

42 - EST circuit - using this diagram http://www.fieros.de/en/v6help/code42.html and these instructions to test it:
"To check the ignition module to see if the solid-state switch is capable of switching when the 5 volts are applied, the engine should not be running and the ECM connectors should be disconnected. An ohm meter and test light can be used. With the ohm meter on the EST circuit, it should read less than 500 ohms (in some cases, a lot less). Using a test light to battery voltage, probe the bypass wire. With this voltage applied to the bypass wire, the solid-state switch inside the ignition module should switch and the ohm meter on the EST circuit should go over 5,000 ohms."
from: http://www.justanswer.com/car/05fs1-fix-electronic-spark-timing-circuit.html#ixzz1M79axwWN
I'll try this tomorrow.

81 - transmission 2-3 error - this one I have no idea. Thoughts?

Does this seem like I am barking up the right tree?

That 81 can't be right- call Indmar or MC with the part and serial numbers for the ECM.

I can see how the IC module would cause these problems, though, although I would do all of the tests so you can have a definitive answer. The 22 tells me that you may have gotten a bad/wrong TPS or a harness/terminal is bad.

If you have a MC or Indmar dealer near you, I would go there so they can connect their diagnostic computer and look at the actual data. Scanners are OK but all they show is a code without any other info, while the computer will show voltages, percentages and changes in state or position. Specifically, ir would show how far out f range the TPS is. At idle, the TPS should read 2% or less and if it spends any appreciable time at idle with the TPS reading 3% or higher, it'll throw a code because 2% or less TP @ 650 RPM and normal MAP reading is what the ECM looks for as its definition of idle. More than 2% with the associated change in RPM and MAP define "not at idle".

Also, if you do call MC or Indmar, one of the first things they'll ask for is the Checksum of the ECM and you can't find that with a scanner, AFAIK.

ranger098
09-03-2012, 11:09 PM
did you have any luck fixing this? my Predator engine seems to be doing the same thing. my check engine light comes on too... not sure if yours does. the light turns back off when i bring it to an idle for a minute, but comes back on when i try to accelerate.

JimN
09-04-2012, 06:03 AM
did you have any luck fixing this? my Predator engine seems to be doing the same thing. my check engine light comes on too... not sure if yours does. the light turns back off when i bring it to an idle for a minute, but comes back on when i try to accelerate.

Clear out the oil cooler and check your impeller.

CantRepeat
09-04-2012, 07:36 AM
Copied from a post by EngineNut:

There is a whole list of code 81's and without a scan tool I don't know which one you have. The most common one is related to injector banks A and B which is most often caused by a poor ground.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=47950