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View Full Version : 2011 x-15 Ballast pumps not working


UrbantuxTN
04-20-2011, 09:07 PM
I took my boat out for the second time two weeks ago and noticed only the port ballast was filling and spilling. I didn't think much of it but went back today to check it out. Sure enough only the port ballast is filling.

The boat has all of 4 hours on it. They worked at the test drive but not this time out (first time since taking ownership). I am going by the dealership tomorrow... Any ideas what it could be? I also noticed the little red light on top of the switches doesn't work.

The biggest thing for me is that the boat is in the slip and the trailer is in storage. So they are gonna have to come out to fix anything. I don't know if they do that but this not what I expected after what I paid.

vision
04-21-2011, 12:17 AM
Probably not the case, but the pumps are on timers and depending on their setting, you may have reached the limit of the timer. The red light on the switch blinks 6 times when the pump times out.

This of course, does you no good if the switch LEDs do not work. I will say they are really dim and in bright sun almost impossible to see.

Can you hear the pump run when you turn on the switch? If so, set it to empty until it stops on its own, which will reset the timers to their default value.

UrbantuxTN
04-21-2011, 07:59 AM
Would the timer be an issue if the boat has been turned off then back on?

I was in my covered slip on a cloudy day and all the other LEDs were plenty bright enough to see. Even the tower lights switch (same general panel as the fill switches).

I can only really hear the Port pump. The other ones make a light humming but the port pump (the working one) is pretty loud. Is it possible that the impeller is bound or bad? Where are they located at so I can check?

MattsCraft
04-21-2011, 10:13 AM
If my memory serves me correctly, pretty sure on the 2011 X15, the port and starboard pumps have been re-located just behind the engine, mounted horizontal in the engine compartment. The pumps are pretty load when they run and if the one only hums sounds to me like the impeller is stuck, but you should get feed back from the switch/module (blinking) as it would time out due to voltage load. If they are not located there, each pump will be behind the carpeted kick panel in the rear lockers. The KGB pump should be forward in the port rear compartment near the tranny and ballast module, you will probably need to remove the side kick panel to get access. Lastly, are you sure that nobody closed the thru-hull valve shut off?

Hope this helps.

MC X-15
04-21-2011, 10:30 AM
Welcome to mc ballast issues. I have had problems since day one with my pumps. One works while wont drain or vice versa. Its a nightmare. Hopefully you have good dealer that can help you out. Mine never was able to. I changed to green inpellers, did everything possible. Still can never get them running properly. Its a sore subject for me bc its such a simple feature IMO and its part of the selling points for these boats, not to mention 50k+ boats. And it really messed with wakeboarding when only one side will fill/empty. I gave up and use fat sacks now with manual pumps. At least that works and gets a good wake.Get it to work MC.

MattsCraft
04-21-2011, 11:04 AM
Welcome to mc ballast issues. I have had problems since day one with my pumps. One works while wont drain or vice versa. Its a nightmare. Hopefully you have good dealer that can help you out. Mine never was able to. I changed to green inpellers, did everything possible. Still can never get them running properly. Its a sore subject for me bc its such a simple feature IMO and its part of the selling points for these boats, not to mention 50k+ boats. And it really messed with wakeboarding when only one side will fill/empty. I gave up and use fat sacks now with manual pumps. At least that works and gets a good wake.Get it to work MC.

Sorry to see you are having problems, my system has worked almost flawlessly from day one. I had a siphoning issue, but that was resolved with the Green impellers, other than that no issue's filling or draining with overflow bags, as long as you keep your RPM's up (1500) as stated in the manual!

UrbantuxTN
04-21-2011, 12:51 PM
Went by the dealership today and talked to the service manager. They wrote up a ticket and said they will TRY to get out to my boat to take a look. I didn't get a warm fuzzy that 1.) they really cared that my brand new boat was busted or 2.) that they would be willing to foot the bill to fix it.

He did say he would try to get out and take a look at my boat but that if I want warranty service I have to bring it to him. That is of course easier said than done since my boat is at the marina in a slip and my trailer is in my back yard (requires me to dismantle the fence to get it out).

I just didn't get the feeling they felt like it was their problem, which I really don't like. I just paid an insane amount for a brand new boat and I expect it to work, for a while at least. I have only used the damn thing once.

EDIT: The dealership is not a problem, I don't want to give a wrong impression they are definitely doing what they can to get it resolved. I was just irritated about having problems.

KnoxX2
04-21-2011, 12:59 PM
One thing to think about is if you had bought a new car you would have to take it to the dealership for and warranty work. I know this is not what you want to hear but it is true.

UrbantuxTN
04-21-2011, 01:03 PM
One thing to think about is if you had bought a new car you would have to take it to the dealership for and warranty work. I know this is not what you want to hear but it is true.

I understand that, and if that is what I have to do that is what I have to do. I would be up a creek if I didn't get a trailer. I know a good number of people don't around here.

I am just irritated that I am having problems at all. Goes with boat ownership I guess.

jason@wakemakers.com
04-21-2011, 01:13 PM
This may be obviously apparent, and please don't take it as an insult to your intelligence, but did you check to make sure the ball valve on the intake for those pumps is open? If you've never filled those ballast locations it could be as simple as just opening that valve (should have been done by the dealer during PDI, but they may have missed it).

UrbantuxTN
04-21-2011, 01:18 PM
This may be obviously apparent, and please don't take it as an insult to your intelligence, but did you check to make sure the ball valve on the intake for those pumps is open? If you've never filled those ballast locations it could be as simple as just opening that valve (should have been done by the dealer during PDI, but they may have missed it).

As simple as that sounds I have no idea where I would look to check that? If you can point me in that direction I will check it next time out to the boat.

KnoxX2
04-21-2011, 02:52 PM
I understand that, and if that is what I have to do that is what I have to do. I would be up a creek if I didn't get a trailer. I know a good number of people don't around here.

I am just irritated that I am having problems at all. Goes with boat ownership I guess.

After re-reading this thread I just thought of a problem I was having with one of my pumps. Did happen to check and see if the circuit breaker was popped? One of my pumps was causing too much of a load on the circuit because they had tied in another accessory to it! Just a thought

KnoxX2
04-21-2011, 02:54 PM
As simple as that sounds I have no idea where I would look to check that? If you can point me in that direction I will check it next time out to the boat.

You can follow the hoses that come off the pump to the valve.

UrbantuxTN
04-21-2011, 02:58 PM
See I would have to know where the pump is, or the breakers, or... I feel like an idiot. Just new boat means I have no clue.

I take back my concerns about the dealership from earlier.. they are doing what they can and I understand that, I don't think they will leave me high and dry here. But if I can get it worked out sooner than they can it is good too.

jason@wakemakers.com
04-21-2011, 03:16 PM
As simple as that sounds I have no idea where I would look to check that? If you can point me in that direction I will check it next time out to the boat.

Open the engine compartment and look down at the very bottom. You'll see numerous fittings that pass through the hull of the boat with a standard ball valve, all of them should be in the open position.

KnoxX2
04-21-2011, 03:18 PM
Brakers should be on a panel under the dash. Pumps are located behind a false panel in the storage locker areas. Glad to heare the dealers are takeing care of you.

UrbantuxTN
06-02-2011, 05:12 PM
The dealer came out not long after this thread started and said the center of the impellers spun out???? 1.) how does that happen and 2.) where can I get spare green impellers for the pumps? Does West Marine carry these or do I have to get them online?

My KGB is not filling again and I think I may have "spun out" the center again. I haven't located that pump to check it. The other two appear to be mount in the engine compartment dead center/top on the transom. Where is the KGB one. I think someone had said it is in the Port Locker behind a carpeted panel? is that accurate?

jason@wakemakers.com
06-02-2011, 08:57 PM
We see that happen occasionally on a batch of bad impellers. It's not common though, so don't think it's going to happen with every impeller you get.

I'm not aware of any national retailers that carry the impellers, so if you don't have a dealer to get them from locally you would need to order online. Our flat rate shipping will have them delivered within three days though.

All three of the pumps should be mounted along the transom at the rear of the engine compartment.

GoneBoatN
06-03-2011, 01:40 AM
Google "ballast puppy impeller" and you will find the green nitrile impeller for the Jabsco ballest puppy pump.

I have a 2010 X-15. Port and Starboard pumps are mounted on the transom just behind the engine. The KGB tank pump is mounted on the starboard side in the transmision area under the center rear seat.

Instructions for changing it are at http://www.wakemakers.com/jabsco-ballast-puppy-green-neoprene-impeller.html. You should be able to remove the impeller with your fingers but I like to use use two old fashon bottle openers (the kind that have the long skinny handle) to pry it out. Be sure not to damage the housing of the pump. Don't loose the o-ring (aka gasket) and make sure it is in place before replacing the cover.

UrbantuxTN
06-03-2011, 08:46 AM
Our flat rate shipping will have them delivered within three days though.

Just ordered two, why don't you throw in complimentary next day air :-) Thanks for the help. Do you know what tools I need to bring to the boat to get the cover off the pump?

CantRepeat
06-03-2011, 09:22 AM
Here's a thread about pulling the impellers and polishing the pumps. You may not want to get the extra mile and polish the pumps, but it does show you what the impellers and pumps look like.

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=29454

UrbantuxTN
06-08-2011, 08:38 PM
Heading to the boat tomorrow to put a new impeller in my KGB. What tool(s) do I need to get this done? Is it a bolt or a screw, flat or phillips. It is a 20 minute drive so I don't want to bring the wrong tool.

BTV
06-08-2011, 09:09 PM
Phillips to remove pump and motor if necessary, flat to remove pump cover, needle nose pliers to remove impeller. That's what it takes on my 09 X15 anyway. You may not have to remove pump from rubber mounts on the 2011.

mseller
06-08-2011, 09:13 PM
^^^ beat me to it. I can't believe you're having to replace the impellers on a 2011 boat

jason@wakemakers.com
06-08-2011, 09:13 PM
If you know what you're doing you can swap it without removing the pump, but that will be tough if this is your first time.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
06-08-2011, 09:26 PM
One thing to think about is if you had bought a new car you would have to take it to the dealership for and warranty work. I know this is not what you want to hear but it is true.

Any good service department will go out of their way to fix problems. Father in law bought a new golf cart, it by no means was top of the line but he had a problem with charging he called them telling them that he was going to bring it in they told him not to worry about it that they would come to his house and get the golf cart, over an hour away. I myself have made numerous house calls on warranty related items, and made several trips to the airport and train stations for key issues. A golf cart or a Sentra is no where the price of a 2011 MC X15, they need to get their butts out there and fix your brand new boat and not tell you that You need to BUY new impellers to fix a manufacturer defect.

Jerseydave
06-08-2011, 10:05 PM
Any good service department will go out of their way to fix problems. Father in law bought a new golf cart, it by no means was top of the line but he had a problem with charging he called them telling them that he was going to bring it in they told him not to worry about it that they would come to his house and get the golf cart, over an hour away. I myself have made numerous house calls on warranty related items, and made several trips to the airport and train stations for key issues. A golf cart or a Sentra is no where the price of a 2011 MC X15, they need to get their butts out there and fix your brand new boat and not tell you that You need to BUY new impellers to fix a manufacturer defect.

Amen brother! It's called service after the sale, and a lot of companies just don't get it.

I have customers that sometimes call me on a sunday if they run out of product....and if I can help them within reason I do it. I value my customers and want them to stay with me, not stray to some other vendor. If you give them an excuse to look for better service they just might do that!

Changing your impellers is not too tough, and with boats if you have a short season like we do here you learn to fix a lot of things on your own. Sure beats waiting 2-3 weeks for a service appointment.

UrbantuxTN
06-08-2011, 11:06 PM
^^^ beat me to it. I can't believe you're having to replace the impellers on a 2011 boat

This is the second time it has gone out. Dealership came out and replaced it the first time.

This time though I blame myself. I wasn't paying attention and clicked the empty tank to empty and just let it run (thought it was filling) I can only assume I burnt out the impeller.

There shouldn't be a problem replacing this type of thing with the boat in the water right?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
06-08-2011, 11:31 PM
^^ No don't blame yourself, thats not the American way, always blame someone else... Have you seen the MC lawsuit thread, anyway hope you get it all figured out and back on the water...

mseller
06-09-2011, 08:53 AM
This is the second time it has gone out. Dealership came out and replaced it the first time.

This time though I blame myself. I wasn't paying attention and clicked the empty tank to empty and just let it run (thought it was filling) I can only assume I burnt out the impeller.

There shouldn't be a problem replacing this type of thing with the boat in the water right?

No problem replacing these on the water. My suggestion would be to turn off the battery switch, then unplug the pumps and replace the impellers. Since your first time should take about 20-30 mins.

UrbantuxTN
06-10-2011, 08:31 AM
Alright so I had the boat out yesterday while my lift was being installed and I took the time to "replace" the kgb impeller. Took me just a couple of minutes to get the cover off and the impeller out, only to realize there is absolutely nothing wrong with the impeller. I could have put it in the bag with the new ones and not been able to tell the difference.

I went ahead and put it back in and then after fighting with the O ring for several minutes in 103 degree heat got the thing closed back up. Fired up the engine and fired up the pump and it ran fine.

This begs the question, what else could cause the pump to not work? When I would flip the switch before it barely made any noise. Now it is back to the loud sound of a working pump. These damn ballast pumps are driving me nutty.

BTV
06-10-2011, 12:58 PM
Welcome to the world of Mastercraft ballast pumps. When they work right they are ok, but they often drive me crazy with timing out, voltage problems, etc. I wish they still had the old school pumps that run till you shut them off and drain out the side so you can tell when they are empty. You run the risk of burning up an impeller, but at least the pump does what you want.

davomaddo
06-10-2011, 01:54 PM
Good Luck,
I am with MX X-15 on this one. The MC ballast system ranks a 3 on a scale of 1-10. They sort of over engineered it to the point where it is way too complicated and there are too many things to go wrong with them. I have the Fly High integrated with my system. I get it to work, but I have had many issues over just 2 summers. I miss the simple electrical/plastic pumps I had on my old boat. Those things didn't time out, didn't have impeller issues, and were relatively cheap and simple to replace if they broke. Sometimes simple is better - especially in a water environment where things have tendency to corrode and break.

G-Star
06-10-2011, 02:33 PM
Alright so I had the boat out yesterday while my lift was being installed and I took the time to "replace" the kgb impeller. Took me just a couple of minutes to get the cover off and the impeller out, only to realize there is absolutely nothing wrong with the impeller. I could have put it in the bag with the new ones and not been able to tell the difference.

I went ahead and put it back in and then after fighting with the O ring for several minutes in 103 degree heat got the thing closed back up. Fired up the engine and fired up the pump and it ran fine.

This begs the question, what else could cause the pump to not work? When I would flip the switch before it barely made any noise. Now it is back to the loud sound of a working pump. These damn ballast pumps are driving me nutty.

Just some thoughts here, but it sounds like the impeller might have been stuck. If it was barely making any noise - aside from a hum - it could have been the motor trying to turn, but not moving because of the stuck impeller. [I've had this happen, but it was with the old-style black impellers.] If you picture the impeller turning one way, stopping, then trying to switch directions, you can imagine it takes a fair amount of power from the motor to "flip" all the impeller vanes and start turning the impeller the other way. If the pump runs dry, it will build up heat and wipe all the water lubrication off the inside of the pump housing, making it more likely for the impeller to stick.

If you polish the inside of the impeller housing, it should decrease the amount of friction between the impeller and the housing and both improve pumping performance and reduce heat generation if the pump were to run dry again.

peettee79
06-10-2011, 09:28 PM
I too was fed up with the timers, so I just bypassed them..Now they run for as long as you wish....best mod ever, I highly reccomend
If you not using you ballst pumps every week they tend to stick, a small trick is when youve finshed emtying flick the pumps back to fill for a second....this will ensure they are facing the correct way next time. I vasoline my impellors every few months or so to keep then plyable. The Black impellors are the worst cullperate....