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samgreazy
04-09-2011, 09:05 PM
Just wondering how many of you have car amps in your boat? I just ordered a jl jx 360.2 and a 360.4, just wondering if any of you had them and any concerns with it??

swatguy
04-09-2011, 09:42 PM
Most people still use car amps. Their is so much more variety on specs.......though recently their has been some top notch marine stuff being made. Usually going with non-marine amps will save you some cash. Just be sure to mount them up and off the floor in a dry area. What plays more of a role on whether you should go with marine amps in my opinion is how well your boat is eaired out after use and where u store it. I feel if someone just stores it on a lift outside or outsidetheir house under a cover u tend to get moisture in there and that is what will cause corrosion to you non-marine amps. Howevere being in a garage or somewhere with a more temperature and humidity controlled enviornment will allow the boat to not have that dampness factor

JRW160
04-10-2011, 10:16 AM
I have a couple of car amps in my boat. The marine stuff is just too expensive. In most cases you can buy 2 car amps for the price of 1 marine amp.

CantRepeat
04-10-2011, 10:20 AM
Most people still use car amps. Their is so much more variety on specs.......though recently their has been some top notch marine stuff being made. Usually going with non-marine amps will save you some cash. Just be sure to mount them up and off the floor in a dry area. What plays more of a role on whether you should go with marine amps in my opinion is how well your boat is eaired out after use and where u store it. I feel if someone just stores it on a lift outside or outsidetheir house under a cover u tend to get moisture in there and that is what will cause corrosion to you non-marine amps. Howevere being in a garage or somewhere with a more temperature and humidity controlled enviornment will allow the boat to not have that dampness factor

Extremely good point there. Boats are made to be wet on the bottom, not inside. I always open up all my seats, motor hatch, lockers and let them air out under covered parking.

bturner2
04-10-2011, 10:42 AM
PO installed a car amp in my boat to power the Wet Sounds speakers on the tower. It's been in there since 2007 with no problems so far. That being said I would have bought the marine version and have considered replacing it. Just not high on the wish list this year.

samgreazy
04-10-2011, 10:56 AM
thanks for the feedback guys

kskonn
04-10-2011, 09:29 PM
I used to install Car and Boat Audio back in college and we used car amps all the time. the only thing I would reccomend is adding some good fans to keep them cool. the biggest issues I would see was overheating after cranking the stereo on the lake for a number of hours. It is cheap to add fans. Not everyone has this issue it is just the most common issue that I would hear people complain about.

markismm
04-12-2011, 02:37 PM
I agree with all of the foregoing. I had a PYLE "Marine" amp that got wet when I had a rub rail leak and fried. The fact that it was "Marine" did not in anyway help it out in that scenario. I tried to fix it by replacing the fried MOSFET transistor, but it still does not sound right. Although the circuit boards on your "Marine" amps are often coated to protect them from moisture issues, many other critical compenents are not, such asthe MOSFET transistors which are usually mounted to a heat sink. I have now replaced my PYLE Amp with two MTX car amps and fixed the rub rail leak. No probs for the last 3 seasons. As long as you keep moisture levels to a minimum and do not subject your amp to any direct water or splash, you should be okay in my opinion.

j4rowell
04-12-2011, 03:15 PM
I agree with all of the foregoing. I had a PYLE "Marine" amp that got wet when I had a rub rail leak and fried. The fact that it was "Marine" did not in anyway help it out in that scenario. I tried to fix it by replacing the fried MOSFET transistor, but it still does not sound right. Although the circuit boards on your "Marine" amps are often coated to protect them from moisture issues, many other critical compenents are not, such asthe MOSFET transistors which are usually mounted to a heat sink. I have now replaced my PYLE Amp with two MTX car amps and fixed the rub rail leak. No probs for the last 3 seasons. As long as you keep moisture levels to a minimum and do not subject your amp to any direct water or splash, you should be okay in my opinion.

Don't base your decision of this story. Mark bought a PYLE of crap. Marine amps such as the wetsounds are top notch and will often withstand water.

J NORRIS
04-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Have had car amps in my boat since 2001 and no problems. I agree with adding fans to keep 'em cool. I have car speakers in the bow of my PS209 (alpine type r), they have been wet, but dry out and sound the same. I can buy two pair of car speaker for price of marine quality speakers. You pay twice as much for 1/2 the power capacity.

rhsprostar
04-12-2011, 05:45 PM
I run a regular car amp....seems fine and was way cheaper...

BriEOD
04-12-2011, 07:15 PM
Ditto here....all Kicker auto gear.

-2 Amps
- 4 6.5 speakers
- 4 Kicker Tower speakers
- 1 Kicker sub (actually that is marine)

hbomb
04-12-2011, 09:36 PM
unless you are in salt water, car amps are not an issue, provided they are mounted in an area which is not subject to water intrusion and are mounted high (often they are mounted at floor level)
moisture as mentioned is an issue but a couple of bags of damp rid from home depot totally eradicate that issue.....
the other main issue........ price.............. and range........ far better/bigger range in car audio as we all know
i personally thinkm the marine bit is purely for boats used in and around salt water where corrossion is an issue... fresh water........not a problem
our old boat ran 2 phoenix gold car amps - 4 ch & 2 ch , powering 6 boat/tower speakers and sub and it could be heard miles away.........
my JBL in the X2 sort of go close but I will say i am sorry i let go of the phoenix gold stuff when I sold the old boat

markismm
04-13-2011, 09:41 AM
I will second the "Pyle of Crap" comment above. It was a piece of junk. The bottom line there is you get what you pay for. In either event, if something is advertised as "Marine", then likely its should withstand some moisture. Regardless of the amp you buy, I would avoid mounting in any place where you might expect direct water contact. Unfortunately, in my case, any amp I would have had at the time I had the rub rail leak would have undoubtedly bit the dust. Water was shooting in and spraying directly into the end of the amp where all of the controls were located. Thus, it became a piece of toast.

pbgbottle
08-01-2012, 08:09 PM
i just had my boat swamped in a storm and all car audio stuff , everything was submerged for almost 2 hours .i have been drying out the boat for 5 days, im getting ready to fire up the stereo and see what i get .i will report back if they dried out and withstood the full submersion test .LOL
all wet from deck to amps to speakers ,fully submerged.

JRW160
08-02-2012, 10:42 PM
I doubt the amps will still work, and if they do, I doubt they will work for very long. Even if you had marine stuff it probably wouldn't survive submersion.

Double D
08-02-2012, 11:54 PM
i just had my boat swamped in a storm and all car audio stuff , everything was submerged for almost 2 hours .i have been drying out the boat for 5 days, im getting ready to fire up the stereo and see what i get .i will report back if they dried out and withstood the full submersion test .LOL
all wet from deck to amps to speakers ,fully submerged.

Did you put your amps in or around a large of amount of rice? It helps pull the moisture out of the electronics. I would do that a few days before you try them. Good Luck!!


Sent from my wife's old iPad using Tapatalk....

pbgbottle
08-03-2012, 01:20 AM
update tryied it out tonight . everything works so far accept my big amp.

deck works .2 small amps work .all the speakers work , but one amp dead .my sub amp.
i put an inline fuse in the main power line from my battery and as soon as i connect power to it it blows the fuse .the amp seems to have a direct short blows fuse instantly . but however does not blow the fuse which is plugged directly into the side of the amp .

and the fuse does not blow if the amp disconnected .only blows as soon as i hook the wire to the amp. amp is toast . i have opened it up and i see no damage . will look closer tommorrow.
even my remote control works and i had forgotten about that so i removed battery's and dried it out the remote today and it still works . i hope everythnig holds up for the rest of the season at least .

looks like i only need a one new amp . Doh! maybe it will dry out a bit more and work .LOL

XtwentyNot
08-03-2012, 01:48 AM
My friends at JL tell me the only difference is color. I ran the HD's over the MHD's.

pbgbottle
08-10-2012, 10:22 PM
update opend up the fully submerged amp that was dead ,cleaned and checked it out with a magnifying glasss .cleaned up some traces and reseated a resistor and she came to life . now to see how long it lasts i did have to reapply some new heatsink thermal compound.

hopefully this car amp will last for awhile or at least for the rest of the season . who needs a marine amp .this one survived a swim in the lake.

MC209
09-03-2012, 01:45 PM
In my last boat my whole stereo was car audio equipment and it worked great

deminimis
09-04-2012, 02:56 PM
Great thread. I'm either upgrading my tunes or my boat this Winter. Would like to buy car amps and take a bit of the pain out of a stereo upgrade. Since I trailer my boat to the water and is otherwise kept in my nice and dry shop, I'm thinking I'm going to be okay with car amps.

Granite_33
09-04-2012, 04:04 PM
I Put a JL XD600/6 in for my 4 in boat speakers and 2 tower speakers.
Added Kenwood KAC-9105D for my sub.

Neither one is a marine rated amp.

Mounted inside up off the floor. No problems at all.

dvsone79
11-26-2012, 05:59 PM
I've got a Boss 4 channel "marine" amp running two tower speakers and a sub. It works well, but can get pretty hot. Anyone have any suggestions for fans? What/where to buy, how to power them, etc...

Edit: I may have come up with a solution. I ordered a 5", 12volt fan for $7 from sonicelectronics.com. I should be able to connect directly to the battery. Just need to figure out how to mount it to the amp. I still welcome other suggestions!

MLA
11-26-2012, 06:18 PM
I've got a Boss 4 channel "marine" sub running two tower speakers and a sub. It works well, but can get pretty hot. Anyone have any suggestions for fans? What/where to buy, how to power them, etc...

Dvsone79,

An amp getting hot to the touch, is not abnormal, especially with a Class-A/B. Even the more efficient Class-D amps get hot. The heat generated can be attributed to a few external factors and may be addressable. Is the amp getting hot enough to shut down for a period?

Cable gauge feeding amp: too small for current draw x distance can effect the amps efficiency, resulting in added heat and quicker thermal shutdown.
Speaker load per amp chnl. What speakers and how many total is the amp driving? As the amp's load, measured in speaker(s) impedance, will determine the amps output (on a typical amp but not all), so as the impedance drops, the amp works harder. This means more heat produced.
Tuning. Gains too high and cross-over points too low can cause the amp to work harder. Reducing the gains, setting all the full-range speakers to Hi-Pass and upping the cross-over point will lighten the work load of the amp.

When needed, external fans will work. The trick is to get the air flowing from the bottom as heat rises. Also orienting the amps vertically, will allow the heat off the heat-sinks to rise up and off the amp. When mounted horizontally the heat from the bottom heat-sink rolls across the upper heat-sink, reducing its effectiveness. If fans are used, you need to construct it so you have fresh air coming in via one fan and a means to pull the hot air out. Simply blowing hot air from locker across the amps does little.

There are lots of 12V fans out there. They can be easily wired up with a relay that triggered when the amps turn on, or with a manual switch. If you dig enough, there are some temp sensors out there that will turn the fan on at a calibrated point.

dvsone79
11-27-2012, 01:05 AM
Great info MLA. The amp is running two 100w tower speakers on channels 1 and 2, with channels 3 and 4 bridged to the sub. It gets hot to the touch, but hasn't shut off on me yet. The power cables are 4 gauge, and short in length, which I initially thought was overkill.

dvsone79
11-27-2012, 01:10 AM
Also, iirc, I've got high pass turned on for the tower speakers and low pass for the sub.

MLA
11-27-2012, 09:23 AM
Great! I would not say that a pair of 4 ohm tower speakers on 1 half of the amp and a 4 ohm sub bridged on the other half is over taxing an amp by any means. If it was, you should be seeing the amp going into thermal shut down. 4ga power cabling is perfect. Hi-pass on the tower speakers is ideal. So far, I think everything is ok. If you are not seeing any issues playing it hard on a hot summer day, then I would worry about it being hot to the touch, which is normal. If it does, then you can look into some ventilation. One other trick I forgot to mentions is to mount the amp on some short stand-off is its mounted to a carpeted wall. This adds some additional air space.

EarmarkMarine
11-27-2012, 11:00 AM
Another cooling point worth mentioning is that an amplifier fan cover shroud will multiply a fans effectiveness many times. Otherwise, the fan mostly circulates air around the fan perimeter and pushes or pulls air a very short distance away from the fan. Ideally you would like to see the fan encompass the amplifier's entire heatsink surface area.
Most any thin, rigid material (.25" or so) can be used to create a fan shroud, such as wood, ABS, aluminum, plex, a cutting board, etc. The shroud would be the identical footprint of the amplifier and elevated above the heatsink by .5" with 'Z' (double 'L') brackets. The fan would be mounted in the center of the shroud.
Off on a bit of a tangent but related to amplifier heat....there are two seperate functions inside every amplifier. One is the DC to AC to DC switching power supply which is outside the signal path in most topologies. The other, the second, is the audio booster so to speak. As you halve the load resistance (impedance) you will increase the power on the audio booster side. But efficiency drops as the load becomes lower and with a drop in efficiency the ratio of heat generated to power produced to the speakers can get ugly. Now, on the power supply it is a fixed output with a definite ceiling. Ohm's Law no longer applies to the power supply side. It's forgiveable to load an amplifier down on half the channels but loading the amplifier down to the minimum on ALL channels will definitely tax the supply. The result? Voltage from the supply sags. And the amplifier works even less efficiently as the voltage drops. It's possible to load an amplifier down to get a 60 percent increase in power that can generate as much as 4 times the heat! So the initial system design and power management is a big part of it. Sure, fans can help dissipate heat but at the core more heat is an indication of wasted energy.

David

dvsone79
12-07-2012, 11:34 PM
I've attached 3 5" 12volt fans on it, and wired them up with the positive wires going to the REM wire of the amp, and the negative going to the ground wire on the amp. I'm thinking that will cause them to turn on when the amp turns on, and turn off when the amp turns off.

It ain't pretty, but I think it will keep the amp significantly cooler.

EarmarkMarine
12-08-2012, 10:51 AM
79.
You do not want to power fans from the remote turn-on lead. That circuit is not intended for that function. This will either burn the super thin traces off the board of the source unit or damage the tiny OP IC that drives the 'remote' output. Use a relay that is triggered by the remote turn on lead.

David

MLA
12-08-2012, 11:10 AM
Definitely need a relay to carry the load of the fans. That circuit from the head-unit is rally only meant to be a 12V signal and not intended to supply current for a load, even as light as a small 12V fan.

carlsonwa
12-08-2012, 12:17 PM
87359

Use this diagram using a 30 amp SPDT relay




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dvsone79
12-08-2012, 12:25 PM
Wilco. Thanks for the feedback fellas!