Ethanol Or Not!

[School Skier]

With the high price for gas many gas stations where I get my gas for the M/C have had ethanol added to the gas a 10% mixture. In my operators manual it stated it is not good to run it with that type of gas. What are you skiers doing?

[bigmac]

With the high price for gas many gas stations where I get my gas for the M/C have had ethanol added to the gas a 10% mixture. In my operators manual it stated it is not good to run it with that type of gas. What are you skiers doing?

Most of the gas stations around here have a pump for non-oxygenated (no ethanol) premium gasoline, specifically for boats, motorcycles, snowmobiles.

Personally, I have a 150 gallon tank on wheels with a 45-foot hose that I get filled with non-oxygentated premium two or three times a month. It has a 12 volt gasoline pump and meter and I haul it down to the lake behind the garden tractor to fill the boat from that.

[Workin' 4 Toys]

With the high price for gas many gas stations where I get my gas for the M/C have had ethanol added to the gas a 10% mixture. In my operators manual it stated it is not good to run it with that type of gas. What are you skiers doing?

I don't think there are many places left you can get it without. I believe there is info about fuel on Indmars website.

[WTRSK1R]

Around the Milwaukee Area you can not get gas without Ethanol unless you drive some distance outside of the 5 county area. It is an EPA requirement to reduce smog. With gas at $2.50 per gallon it does not pay to go hunting for non-reformulated gas. I have not had any problems with it, but I do go out of my way to fill the tank with "good" gas before I winterize since I have heard that it is not good to store the boat with the ethanol mix.

[Hoosier Bob]

I have always heard it is not a problem with the gas but with high performance GM injectors. Check with any GM dealer and ask why and I am sure they can tell you. Trans Ams, Corvettes and Camaro's all had this warning. Wifey did it once and I can not say good or bad but we spend too much on these toys to risk it. I would avoid at all costs unless you get numerous GM reps to tell you otherwise. Good luck! Like I said I believe this is GM specific!With the high price for gas many gas stations where I get my gas for the M/C have had ethanol added to the gas a 10% mixture. In my operators manual it stated it is not good to run it with that type of gas. What are you skiers doing?

[6ballsisall]

I think Ethanol is fine. I ran many a cars on it in Nebraska and Colorado for lots of miles and had zero issues.

[bigmac]

Around the Milwaukee Area you can not get gas without Ethanol unless you drive some distance outside of the 5 county area. It is an EPA requirement to reduce smog. With gas at $2.50 per gallon it does not pay to go hunting for non-reformulated gas. I have not had any problems with it, but I do go out of my way to fill the tank with "good" gas before I winterize since I have heard that it is not good to store the boat with the ethanol mix.

Yeh, it true that non-oxygenated fuel isn't available in many urban areas - that's true of Minneapolis like Milwaukee, but up here in vacationland, about 1/2 of the gas stations have it at the pump.

The problem is that ethanol will attract moisture, and it can attack some hoses and seals. It also has a detergent action that can put particles in suspension and clog fuel filters. Another issue is that it contains more oxygen than regular gasoline, which can fool the FI computer and make an engine run leaner than design.

Ethanol's beneficial effect on emissions is highly suspect, and it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn into ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. Mainly, what ethanol is is a pork-barrel subsidy for midwestern farmers. Don't get me started...

[Workin' 4 Toys]

Q & A Quotes from Indmars website:
QUESTION: Can I use reformulated or oxygenated fuels?

ANSWER: Reformulated (oxygenated) gasoline is required in certain areas of the USA. The two types of "oxygenates" used in these fuels are alcohol (ethanol) or ether (MTBE or ETBE). These reformulated gasolines are acceptable for use in your Indmar engine. If the gasoline in your area contains either methanol (methyl alcohol) or ethanol, you should be aware of certain adverse effects that can occur. See your operator’s manual for details.

[Workin' 4 Toys]

One more Q & A quote from Indmar:
QUESTION: What type of fuel should I use?

ANSWER: All current Indmar engines (except for the Malibu LS1) are designed to operate on 89 octane, unleaded fuel. Little or no performance gain will be realized by using fuel of a higher octane rating than the engine requires. The Malibu LS1 requires the use of 93-octane fuel. Failure to use 93-octane fuel will result in engine damage that is not covered by your engine warranty.

[jimmer2880]

Yeh, it true that non-oxygenated fuel isn't available in many urban areas - that's true of Minneapolis like Milwaukee, but up here in vacationland, about 1/2 of the gas stations have it at the pump.

The problem is that ethanol will attract moisture, and it can attack some hoses and seals. It also has a detergent action that can put particles in suspension and clog fuel filters. Another issue is that it contains more oxygen than regular gasoline, which can fool the FI computer and make an engine run leaner than design.

Ethanol's beneficial effect on emissions is highly suspect, and it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn into ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. Mainly, what ethanol is is a pork-barrel subsidy for midwestern farmers. Don't get me started...

I was told that that study is several years old (going by a recent newspaper article pertaining to a group of folks near by trying to block an ethenol plant from going in) and another study was done that states that it only takes 69% Fossil fuel to produce it.

Again - only what I read in my local newspaper. pls don't shoot the messenger.

[bigmac]

I was told that that study is several years old (going by a recent newspaper article pertaining to a group of folks near by trying to block an ethenol plant from going in) and another study was done that states that it only takes 69% Fossil fuel to produce it.

Again - only what I read in my local newspaper. pls don't shoot the messenger.

I was quoting an Associated Press article by Mark Johnson in yesterday's Minneapolis paper. It was titled "Study Says Ethanol Not Worth the Energy".

"But researchers at Cornell University and the University of California-Berkeley say it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn into ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. "

[maristarman]

From the Indmar owners manual for 1994 through 2002 engines:

"All carbureted and standard EFI engines run on unleaded fuel of 89 Octane (R+M)/2 or higher. The LS1 requires 93 octane or higher. Fuels must meet the specification ASTM D4814 in the US and CGSB 3.5-92 in
Canada. These fuels need no additives.

MBTE (methyl butyl tertiary ether) is an oxygenate and octane enhancer. This compound may be blended with fuel. Fuel that is no more than 15% MBTE is acceptable for use in your Indmar engine.

Ethyl alcohol, ethanol or grain alcohol is acceptable as long as it is a blend and the blended fuel contains no more than 10% ethanol.

Fuels that are blended to contain methanol or wood alcohol should not be used in Indmar engines. These fuels can corrode metal parts in your fuel system and engine. Fuels that contain methanol will damage your engine. Damage caused by the use of fuels that contain methanol is not covered by your warranty."

It also says:

"Indmar recommends the regular use of Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer for boat users that consume less than a tank of fuel every two weeks. Today’s fuels are more susceptible to degradation and the use of a quality stabilizer will help ensure fewer problems for the occasional boater."


Anybody ever use that stuff? Does it make a difference?

Thanks.

[bigmac]

From the Indmar owners manual for 1994 through 2002 engines:

"All carbureted and standard EFI engines run on unleaded fuel of 89 Octane (R+M)/2 or higher. The LS1 requires 93 octane or higher. Fuels must meet the specification ASTM D4814 in the US and CGSB 3.5-92 in
Canada. These fuels need no additives.

MBTE (methyl butyl tertiary ether) is an oxygenate and octane enhancer. This compound may be blended with fuel. Fuel that is no more than 15% MBTE is acceptable for use in your Indmar engine.

Ethyl alcohol, ethanol or grain alcohol is acceptable as long as it is a blend and the blended fuel contains no more than 10% ethanol.

Fuels that are blended to contain methanol or wood alcohol should not be used in Indmar engines. These fuels can corrode metal parts in your fuel system and engine. Fuels that contain methanol will damage your engine. Damage caused by the use of fuels that contain methanol is not covered by your warranty."

It also says:

"Indmar recommends the regular use of Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer for boat users that consume less than a tank of fuel every two weeks. Today’s fuels are more susceptible to degradation and the use of a quality stabilizer will help ensure fewer problems for the occasional boater."


Anybody ever use that stuff? Does it make a difference?

Thanks.

See, opinions on all this petroleum stuff really vary, and I don't have a clue as to who is right. Ethanol in modern engines, even boat engines, is probably not a problem and it looks like it covered on warranty anyway. The only practical issue I'd be concerned about is the affinity that ethanol has for water and the resultant potential for phase separation. That could be disastrous. I've seen it happen in 150 gallon storage tanks - it could happen in a boat with a half-full gas tank that's been sitting for a few months.

I use StaBil and/or SeaFoam all the time for winterizing boats, winterizing motorcycles, and summerizing snowmobiles. I don't know if it does any good or not. I've had mechanics tell me yes, and I've had them tell me it's worthless. General concensus lately as related to me by my snowmobile service guy is that StaBil/SeaFoam are pointless and Yamaha's recommended technique is drain the gas tank and carbs for storage and stay away from stabilizers.

I don't know. Non-oxygenated gasoline is readily available to me at the pump and for home delivery to my storage tank, so I use that. If I had to use ethanol, I would, although I wouldn't store a vehicle with a full tank of 10% ethanol.

[jamisonsbrodie]

The main difference between an automotive fuel system, and a boat fuel system is in the fuel lines. Boats use rubber/butyl lines vs steel/copper in a car. Ethanol can eat away at butyl gas lines and clog carburators/injectors. Otherwise, an ethanol blend would be ok.

[jimmer2880]

I was quoting an Associated Press article by Mark Johnson in yesterday's Minneapolis paper. It was titled "Study Says Ethanol Not Worth the Energy".

"But researchers at Cornell University and the University of California-Berkeley say it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn into ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. "

Ehh... what does Cornell know? I'll put newspaper reporters against them anyday! NOT!:o

[zberger]

The marina on the lake I go to only sells 87..

While I hate to admit it.. the boat runs SIGNIFICANTLY better on premium fuel vs. 87..

But since gas is already 2.79 a gallon out there.. I tend to doubt anyone would pay more than that anyways.

We just pick up a couple bottles of octane boost.. throw em in with the gas.. seems to make a noticeable difference.

[jraben8]

I normally start using Sta-bil or Seafoam in September when I know I won't be skiing as much. At that point a tank may last me until December. I have always used Sta-bil for winterizing in all of my gas engines with no problems either way.