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rem_pss308
03-13-2011, 09:21 PM
Yesterday and today when i backed the boat into the water. I turned the key and it cranked, but would not start. until I kept the key on for at least a minute or more. then it started.
Yesterday i checked the fuel pressure and it was good. at key on, starting and running.
It seemed like the starter might be a little slower than usual. and as I held the key in the cranking position it would gradually start spinning faster then crank.
After the first crank( running) it did like it was suposed to the rest of the day.

Any Ideas what is causeing this delay in starting?

Could it be my starter is not turning fast enough?

Thanks for any responses...

2RLAKE
03-13-2011, 09:32 PM
Check hour terminals on the starter and assure you don't have one corroded???

onejdgreen
03-13-2011, 10:00 PM
Depending on the boat or engine, it could be the starter solenoid or starter relay.

JimN
03-13-2011, 10:06 PM
Yesterday and today when i backed the boat into the water. I turned the key and it cranked, but would not start. until I kept the key on for at least a minute or more. then it started.
Yesterday i checked the fuel pressure and it was good. at key on, starting and running.
It seemed like the starter might be a little slower than usual. and as I held the key in the cranking position it would gradually start spinning faster then crank.
After the first crank( running) it did like it was suposed to the rest of the day.

Any Ideas what is causeing this delay in starting?

Could it be my starter is not turning fast enough?

Thanks for any responses...

How long did you crank it? If you cranked for a minute, and it seems you did from your post, you're beating the crap out of your battery and starter.

What was the fuel pressure at key ON/engine off? Did you check it at idle? You should check it at Key ON/Engine OFF, idle, 2000 RPM and WOT. It needs to be done at all 4 because you may be OK at idle or key off and it may be low at the other two.

If this happens again, turn the key to on (don't crank) and listen for a buzzing sound that should last for about 3 seconds. After you hear this, turn the key OFF for more than 5 seconds and turn the key to ON again (don't crank) and make sure it buzzes again. Crank it and see if it starts. If it does, it's likely that your fuel pump is weak or the filter is clogged. Before you try it again, use the fuel pressure gauge's purge valve and clear tube to take a fuel sample of about 6 ounces. Let it sit for a while and look for water droplets settling out.

LaRue
03-13-2011, 10:13 PM
That's a great post Jim! Perfect example on why TT is valuable

mattdda
03-13-2011, 10:20 PM
Fuel injected, right? Good voltage on battery?

rem_pss308
03-14-2011, 10:49 AM
How long did you crank it? If you cranked for a minute, and it seems you did from your post, you're beating the crap out of your battery and starter.

What was the fuel pressure at key ON/engine off? Did you check it at idle? You should check it at Key ON/Engine OFF, idle, 2000 RPM and WOT. It needs to be done at all 4 because you may be OK at idle or key off and it may be low at the other two.

If this happens again, turn the key to on (don't crank) and listen for a buzzing sound that should last for about 3 seconds. After you hear this, turn the key OFF for more than 5 seconds and turn the key to ON again (don't crank) and make sure it buzzes again. Crank it and see if it starts. If it does, it's likely that your fuel pump is weak or the filter is clogged. Before you try it again, use the fuel pressure gauge's purge valve and clear tube to take a fuel sample of about 6 ounces. Let it sit for a while and look for water droplets settling out.



Thanks Jim.

I did check the fuel pump at the four times. it is holding like it is supposed to. the first time it did it. That was my first thought. I keep a fuel pressure gauge in the boat now.

I did not take a sample of the fuel.

I will this week.

I changed the filter at the begining of last summer. But might do it again.

Havent checked voltage at the starter. will do that this week.

Since I have had the boat. (2) years. it has been slow to crank ( turn Over ) compared to my old Prostar. with the GT-40 351, This one has the LTR 350,

Thanks for all the responses.

Will tell what I find out.

JLeuck64
03-14-2011, 11:03 AM
This forum will keep you grounded!

By the way... that's something you should check. The ground cable on the engine block ( ;

setidball
03-14-2011, 11:09 AM
My 1995 ProStar190 (TBI 350) had a similar problem…slow cranking and delayed start. Perhaps not quite as much delay as you describe. It would start but crank slowly all day.
Put the Battery on the charger over night…the next day…same thing. Turned out that the alternator had a failed diode. The battery was discharging through the alternator almost as fast as it would charge. Replaced the alternator…problem solved. You can check this by checking the key off battery current draw. Disconnect the alternator and check it again. There will likely be a small parasite current keeping the stereo and other computer memories alive but it should not be more that a few milliamps. In my case about 10mA.

JimN
03-14-2011, 11:43 AM
Thanks Jim.

I did check the fuel pump at the four times. it is holding like it is supposed to. the first time it did it. That was my first thought. I keep a fuel pressure gauge in the boat now.

I did not take a sample of the fuel.

I will this week.

I changed the filter at the begining of last summer. But might do it again.

Havent checked voltage at the starter. will do that this week.

Since I have had the boat. (2) years. it has been slow to crank ( turn Over ) compared to my old Prostar. with the GT-40 351, This one has the LTR 350,

Thanks for all the responses.

Will tell what I find out.

I wouldn't worry about the cranking speed compared with a different brand of engine because they don't use the same starter. If you have a timing light, put it on the #1 plug wire and verify that you have spark as soon as you start cranking. If not, look at the safety switch or neutral safety switch as possible causes.

JimN
03-14-2011, 11:45 AM
My 1995 ProStar190 (TBI 350) had a similar problem…slow cranking and delayed start. Perhaps not quite as much delay as you describe. It would start but crank slowly all day.
Put the Battery on the charger over night…the next day…same thing. Turned out that the alternator had a failed diode. The battery was discharging through the alternator almost as fast as it would charge. Replaced the alternator…problem solved. You can check this by checking the key off battery current draw. Disconnect the alternator and check it again. There will likely be a small parasite current keeping the stereo and other computer memories alive but it should not be more that a few milliamps. In my case about 10mA.

To add more to this- your bridge rectifier was bad and that's the specific reason your battery was discharging.

A bad rectifier will draw about 300mA, usually more like 350mA.

setidball
03-14-2011, 11:50 AM
To add more to this- your bridge rectifier was bad and that's the specific reason your battery was discharging.

A bad rectifier will draw about 300mA, usually more like 350mA.

Yes, agreed!!

rem_pss308
03-14-2011, 03:24 PM
I did have an alternator problem saturday. and changed it out Sunday morning. Something knocking around in it. and causeing it so go from 14 volts to about 13.

My safety switch is wired solid. so that is not a problem.

Jimn : I did notice that as I held the key after a little time. it seemed the speed did go a very little bit faster just before it cranked.

JimN
03-14-2011, 04:52 PM
I did have an alternator problem saturday. and changed it out Sunday morning. Something knocking around in it. and causeing it so go from 14 volts to about 13.

My safety switch is wired solid. so that is not a problem.

Jimn : I did notice that as I held the key after a little time. it seemed the speed did go a very little bit faster just before it cranked.

Have your starter tested.

Remember- the longer you crank and the injectors are firing, the more you're flooding the engine. If too much gas goes in, it can be a major problem when it fires up because raw fuel can be sent to the exhaust system. If you have long crank times, you'd be better off pulling the fuel pump fuse or relay before continuing because, if the raw gas ignites, it can blow up your muffler, or worse.

rem_pss308
03-14-2011, 08:21 PM
Have your starter tested.

Remember- the longer you crank and the injectors are firing, the more you're flooding the engine. If too much gas goes in, it can be a major problem when it fires up because raw fuel can be sent to the exhaust system. If you have long crank times, you'd be better off pulling the fuel pump fuse or relay before continuing because, if the raw gas ignites, it can blow up your muffler, or worse.

I will have it tested Wednesday. thanks.

rem_pss308
03-17-2011, 09:40 PM
Fuel Pressure is 42 at key and 42 cranking, 42 running at low throttle, and at full throttle. The motor is starting better but has sounded like it back fired a couple of times. I dont have to crank it for so long anymore. but it is longer than I think it should take. sometimes it starts right up, and some times it starts after some cranking. Had starter checked. it is ok. think maybe a tune up. new plugs tomorrow.

JimN
03-17-2011, 10:05 PM
Fuel Pressure is 42 at key and 42 cranking, 42 running at low throttle, and at full throttle. The motor is starting better but has sounded like it back fired a couple of times. I dont have to crank it for so long anymore. but it is longer than I think it should take. sometimes it starts right up, and some times it starts after some cranking. Had starter checked. it is ok. think maybe a tune up. new plugs tomorrow.

Did you take a fuel sample? Do that and check for codes, using the paper clip method if you don't have a scan tool. Specifically, look for codes 33 or 34.

rem_pss308
03-17-2011, 10:31 PM
I havent took a fuel sample. My check engine light doesnt come on at all. I think because it was not wired properly ( reading another post ) If you think there is a problem I can get the blinky thing. from skidim and check it.

what do those codes mean?

JimN
03-17-2011, 10:34 PM
I havent took a fuel sample. My check engine light doesnt come on at all. I think because it was not wired properly ( reading another post ) If you think there is a problem I can get the blinky thing. from skidim and check it.

what do those codes mean?

You can get a code reader at Harbor Freight if you have one close to you.

33 and 34 are for the MAP sensor.

rem_pss308
03-18-2011, 04:27 AM
will one of these work?
will they hook up to the harness?
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=code+reader

Skidim has the blinky thing reader.

rem_pss308
04-17-2011, 06:49 PM
You can get a code reader at Harbor Freight if you have one close to you.

33 and 34 are for the MAP sensor.


Got the code reader from harbor frieght. it will plug into my 2003 toyota. but will not plug into my 1999 X-star/

Boat would not start today. it acted like it was binding. Acter cranking a few seconds. I turned the key off. then tried again. after about the fourth try the starter bogged, like the battery was dead. so I had truck pull up, hooked jumper cables to it. again for a few seconds would turn over good then act like batteries were dead.
Jumper cables are heavy duty, and had 14 volts at my battery. act like something like fuel in cylinders is causeing not to turn over.


Is there another code reader that will hook up.

Anyone have any ideas?

Need help bad. closest dealer is BAWS at three hours away.

CruisinGA
04-17-2011, 07:34 PM
I had a similar problem when the ground cable from the engine to my batteries went bad.

Connections were clean, cable was in good shape, but over the off season had developed a bad spot that would sometimes allow enough current to pass and sometimes not. Try hooking jumper cables to the engine (positive to lug on starter where battery cable is attached and negative to lug where ground cable is attached. If it starts every time then you have most likely found your problem.

JimN
04-17-2011, 08:22 PM
Got the code reader from harbor frieght. it will plug into my 2003 toyota. but will not plug into my 1999 X-star/

Boat would not start today. it acted like it was binding. Acter cranking a few seconds. I turned the key off. then tried again. after about the fourth try the starter bogged, like the battery was dead. so I had truck pull up, hooked jumper cables to it. again for a few seconds would turn over good then act like batteries were dead.
Jumper cables are heavy duty, and had 14 volts at my battery. act like something like fuel in cylinders is causeing not to turn over.


Is there another code reader that will hook up.

Anyone have any ideas?

Need help bad. closest dealer is BAWS at three hours away.

I thought Harbor Freight had OBD I readers, but I may be wrong. You can use a paper clip to get the codes but slow cranking isn't going to show anything.

Remove some of the spark plugs and put a blanket or tarp on the floor and over the gunwale so nothing that sprays out will stain anything, then crank it. If you get water shooting out, do the same thing to the other side and clear the cylinders before trying to start it again.

Re-read post 14.

Jerseydave
04-17-2011, 08:33 PM
Quote: Jumper cables are heavy duty, and had 14 volts at my battery. act like something like fuel in cylinders is causeing not to turn over.

It's possible you have water getting into the cylinders. (possible bad exhaust manifolds??)

Pull the plugs like JimN says and crank it over, see if water comes out.

rem_pss308
04-17-2011, 08:52 PM
I thought Harbor Freight had OBD I readers, but I may be wrong. You can use a paper clip to get the codes but slow cranking isn't going to show anything.

Remove some of the spark plugs and put a blanket or tarp on the floor and over the gunwale so nothing that sprays out will stain anything, then crank it. If you get water shooting out, do the same thing to the other side and clear the cylinders before trying to start it again.

Re-read post 14.

My check engine light never comes on. If I use the paper clip. will it still show something. I remember you told someone else in another thread that there check engine light was wired wrong or something.

It did bog down after getting it into the water. it would turn over ok out of the water. but still would not start. except just once.

JimN
04-17-2011, 09:40 PM
My check engine light never comes on. If I use the paper clip. will it still show something. I remember you told someone else in another thread that there check engine light was wired wrong or something.

It did bog down after getting it into the water. it would turn over ok out of the water. but still would not start. except just once.

They fixed the mis-wired MIL issue and it was only on the '99 models, IIRC. If it lights up with the paper clip, it's wired correctly. When you insert the clip but only turn the key to ON, do you see it flashing? If so, make note of how many times.

rem_pss308
04-18-2011, 07:00 AM
They fixed the mis-wired MIL issue and it was only on the '99 models, IIRC. If it lights up with the paper clip, it's wired correctly. When you insert the clip but only turn the key to ON, do you see it flashing? If so, make note of how many times.

Mine is a 1999 : (

I will try it today when i get off work. thanks jimN

JimN
04-18-2011, 10:06 AM
Mine is a 1999 : (

I will try it today when i get off work. thanks jimN

I could swear the line at the bottom of your posts showed that you have a 2003 boat when I posted that. Hmmm.

Again, if your light goes on when you turn the key to ON and goes off or goes on when the key is already ON and you insert a paper clip, yours is wired correctly. If it never goes on, it's not. You'll need to do a continuity test from the ALDL plug at the rear of the motor to the light's + and - wires IF you need to check it.

rem_pss308
04-18-2011, 06:12 PM
I could swear the line at the bottom of your posts showed that you have a 2003 boat when I posted that. Hmmm.

Again, if your light goes on when you turn the key to ON and goes off or goes on when the key is already ON and you insert a paper clip, yours is wired correctly. If it never goes on, it's not. You'll need to do a continuity test from the ALDL plug at the rear of the motor to the light's + and - wires IF you need to check it.




Mine never comes on when I turn the key on.

can you explain the continuity test. im a dummy when it comes to electronics.

rem_pss308
04-18-2011, 07:35 PM
Concradulations to crusinGA When I jumped it at the starter. it turned over quicker and then started right up. after the next try it went very slow again. so I pulled all the starter connections and cleaned them. ( they didnt look that bad ) now it starts quickly without being jumped off.

I want to again thank everyone who gave input. as usual this forum is the best one I know for good answer, and no bull crap.

jimN I would like to know if its possible to fix my engine light. I did the paperclip thing and it never showded any blinks.

thanks again everyone. I will sleep good tonight.

headed to the river to give it a run.

BriEOD
04-18-2011, 09:19 PM
Good to hear!