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View Full Version : Blown Engine or Tranny


Creeklife
03-09-2011, 10:46 AM
I loaded up my wife, the dog, and a cooler of beer and took off from the dock for the first ride of the year. I'm running at about 3000 rpm when all the sudden it slips out of gear. I've had seals burst and this happen but this time It had a loud metallic banging sound with it. I immediately shut it down and had a neighbor tow me back in. When I got back to the dock, I started it back up and could hear that metallic sound while at idle. Would you hear banging while in nuetral if it was a transmission issue or is this a blown engine??? If something was broken in the transmission, would you hear it clacking while in nuetral???

milkmania
03-09-2011, 10:51 AM
well, it's not a completely blown engine if it started back up.....
can you isolate where the sound is coming from? front of engine block, back, near the tranny....
take a 3 to 5 foot piece of rubber hose, hold one end to your ear, and move the other around in the engine compartment... You'll be surprised how well it works to isolate noise.

dmminfla
03-09-2011, 10:52 AM
It sounds like it could be the damper plate. You could pull the starter and look for metal shavings in the bell housing.

CantRepeat
03-09-2011, 11:01 AM
It sounds like it could be the damper plate. You could pull the starter and look for metal shavings in the bell housing.


Good suggestion right there.

http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1100

Creeklife
03-09-2011, 11:06 AM
I replaced the damper plate about a 2 years ago, and replaced the front and rear seals last year. When my damper plate went out last time, it did't make that metallic noise. If I put it in gear it oviously wont engage. It's the noise that gets me. Why would it make a noise when its not in gear. That's what leads me to believe that it's something else

thatsmrmastercraft
03-09-2011, 01:23 PM
Have you checked the oil or looked at the spark plugs yet?

rjracin240
03-09-2011, 01:30 PM
Sorry to hear about your boat, I am right up the street from you and will try and help any way I can. PM'd you with contact info.

Creeklife
03-09-2011, 01:30 PM
No Trans oil in bilge, Engine oil appears fine. I'll try taking a look at the spark plugs. What am I looking for?

thatsmrmastercraft
03-09-2011, 01:35 PM
Preferably nothing, but if you find chunks of metal, you are getting warmer.

Creeklife
03-09-2011, 01:39 PM
I guess my question is when the engine is running and the boat is in neutral, are there moving parts in the transmission that would be making a clanging sound? I've had Transmission problems before but the engine would run normal. It's the metal clanging that has me worried that it might be block related. Would the Engine run if there was something broken in the block???

dmminfla
03-09-2011, 01:46 PM
Yes the tranny is always spinning because it is hooked directly to the flywheel via the damper plate. When put in forward the clutch plates are pressed together to engage the prop shaft. Check the trans fluid for any metal shavings.

CantRepeat
03-09-2011, 01:48 PM
I guess my question is when the engine is running and the boat is in neutral, are there moving parts in the transmission that would be making a clanging sound? I've had Transmission problems before but the engine would run normal. It's the metal clanging that has me worried that it might be block related. Would the Engine run if there was something broken in the block???


Well starting it anymore without finding the issue is only going to lead to more damage.

The fact that you say it stop moving forward right after the noise happen is what is leading everyone to think damper or input shaft. Could even be the front main bearing in the transmission.

So, when you say it went into neutral, was that because you moved it there or did the boat stop going forward with it still in drive?

thatsmrmastercraft
03-09-2011, 01:49 PM
The engine can run with major problems. Picture a broken connecting rod with the piston and the remains stuck at the top of the cylinder bore. Going to sound like he!!, but still capable of running.

I would first pull the starter as already suggested and look for shavings. Then look at all the spark plugs. Then turn the engine over by hand and see what if any compression is there. Then perform a compression test.

Have you checked the trans fluid? Might find something there.

CantRepeat
03-09-2011, 01:57 PM
The engine can run with major problems. Picture a broken connecting rod with the piston and the remains stuck at the top of the cylinder bore. Going to sound like he!!, but still capable of running.

I would first pull the starter as already suggested and look for shavings. Then look at all the spark plugs. Then turn the engine over by hand and see what if any compression is there. Then perform a compression test.

Have you checked the trans fluid? Might find something there.

The way he says he lost forward movement while still in gear makes me think, plate, input shaft, main bearing or something in the front of the trans.

thatsmrmastercraft
03-09-2011, 02:00 PM
The way he says he lost forward movement while still in gear makes me think, plate, input shaft, main bearing or something in the front of the trans.

After going through the thread again, I would agree.

Creeklife
03-09-2011, 02:36 PM
I haven't been able to get a tow to the ramp to pull it out of the water yet. It is still behind my house. I am just trying to do some troubleshooting in my head. I suspect that its the transmission due to the fact that I was running at about 3000 rpm when I lost power. My only concern was the metal clanging around in neutral. I figured that If my transmission was shot, I should still be able to run the engine with it in neutral and not hear a metallic banging (I've never heard that with any previous transmission problems). I'll try to get a tow this weekend and pull the transmission. Question...Is it possible to run the engine (with Fake Lake) with the tranny pulled???

CantRepeat
03-09-2011, 03:44 PM
I haven't been able to get a tow to the ramp to pull it out of the water yet. It is still behind my house. I am just trying to do some troubleshooting in my head. I suspect that its the transmission due to the fact that I was running at about 3000 rpm when I lost power. My only concern was the metal clanging around in neutral. I figured that If my transmission was shot, I should still be able to run the engine with it in neutral and not hear a metallic banging (I've never heard that with any previous transmission problems). I'll try to get a tow this weekend and pull the transmission. Question...Is it possible to run the engine (with Fake Lake) with the tranny pulled???


I don't think you would need or would want to do that in order to discover the problem.

FrankSchwab
03-09-2011, 09:45 PM
I don't see why not. There's nothing in the cooling or lubrication systems that connect the two (other than the transmission cooler, which you'd leave in-line). You'd have to figure out how to stabilize the engine, as the transmission acts as a third motor mount (I believe).

I don't think I'd bother. I think you'll figure it out in 30 minutes by checking the fluids, spark plugs, and starter for metal bits.

03geetee
03-10-2011, 09:55 AM
The rubber hose should help you determine if the noise is coming from the front (engine) or back (trans). Try the other diagnostics but dont forget about the tip on TT member already suggested it might help you easily discover its the tranny.

JTR

TRBenj
03-10-2011, 10:59 AM
I would bet good money that it is the damper. Sometimes they fail softly, sometimes theyre catastrophic and fill your bellhousing with shrapnel... pull the starter and have a look- you'll need it out of the way to pull the transmission anyways. Ive heard of cheap dampers dying prematurely, just like you describe. Get a good sachs damper when you replace it, rather than the cheesy one sold by SkiDIM.

bigmac
03-10-2011, 11:42 AM
I would bet good money that it is the damper. Sometimes they fail softly, sometimes theyre catastrophic and fill your bellhousing with shrapnel... pull the starter and have a look- you'll need it out of the way to pull the transmission anyways. Ive heard of cheap dampers dying prematurely, just like you describe. Get a good sachs damper when you replace it, rather than the cheesy one sold by SkiDIM.

^^This. Damper plate is the weakest link in the transmission, tends to fail loudly, and because it always is turning with the engine can make a lot of noise at idle. Given the noise the OP describes, I suspect there's a better-than-even chance it holed the bell housing too.

Creeklife
03-11-2011, 09:53 AM
What does holed the bell housing mean???????

CantRepeat
03-11-2011, 10:22 AM
What does holed the bell housing mean???????

How about a photo of the damage? Sure sounds like a damper plate. If it was so catastrophic that it put a hole in the bell housing I would think check the main bearings would be in order.

Creeklife
03-11-2011, 10:51 AM
I've got the boat out now and I will start to take apart. I'll try to get some pictures posted this weekend....Thanks to everyone for their input......

dmminfla
03-11-2011, 03:07 PM
What does holed the bell housing mean???????

The bell housing is the dome that covers the flywheel and where the tranny is attached to the engine. I doubt that it has been damaged from a broken damper plate.

CantRepeat
03-11-2011, 07:28 PM
The bell housing is the dome that covers the flywheel and where the tranny is attached to the engine. I doubt that it has been damaged from a broken damper plate.


I'm thinking that it is possible for a spring running around at 3k to blast through an aluminum housing.

americanskierJim
03-11-2011, 08:30 PM
I'm thinking that it is possible for a spring running around at 3k to blast through an aluminum housing.

I AGREE with this it sounds like the damper plate has failed.

oldairboater
03-11-2011, 10:33 PM
Did you replace the damper last time or pay someone to do it? This is easy trouble shooting. Pull plugs --check for compression in each cylinder. If you have compression and it is the same all the way around give or take a few pounds----I doubt in is in the engine. Check damper next ----then transmission.

blackcreek
03-13-2011, 09:23 PM
I can see his boat from across the canal and it looks like a damper plate to me.

ProStar Slalom
03-14-2011, 03:47 AM
I can see his boat from across the canal and it looks like a damper plate to me.


^^^I'm looking from Afghanistan and see the same thing. When mine failed on my '87 powerslot the flywheel caught a large piece of the plate and carried it into the starter housing while running around 2500 RPM. It hit the starter so hard that it knocked the starter right out of the engine (stripped the threads from the mounting bolt holes). Scared the *&^% out of us and I was quit surprised to see the starter lying in the bilge when I looked to see what was going on. Fortunately no major damage other than needing a new plate and tapping some threads. All the rattling you're hearing is probably pieces of springs getting churned up in the bell housing.

bigmac
03-14-2011, 12:30 PM
The bell housing is the dome that covers the flywheel and where the tranny is attached to the engine. I doubt that it has been damaged from a broken damper plate.

Happens all the time. Usually it's just a couple springs, but if part of the plate broke off at 3000 RPM then damage to the bell housing is more likely than not.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b197/amygwen_/P1050587.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b197/amygwen_/P1050590.jpg

CantRepeat
03-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Looks like it'll buff out, Bigmac!

Creeklife
03-23-2011, 01:42 PM
Pulled the transmission and it is definately the Damper Plate.....It really ticks me off because that damper plate, purchased from Skidim, only has about 100 hours on it. I'm looking to purchase a new one....Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can buy one that is going to last more than 100 hours?

Bouyhead
03-23-2011, 02:18 PM
Lots of aftermarket ones online. Have you thought of calling Skidim? There suppliers change all the time, maybe they will make good on the failed part somehow. I had only good experiance with them, It's worth a phone call.

Good Luck

Table Rocker
03-23-2011, 03:06 PM
A question for people on here who might know: Could blowing up damper plates be a sign of transmission problems? If the trans were binding a little, would it cause repeated damper failures?

CantRepeat
03-23-2011, 03:51 PM
A question for people on here who might know: Could blowing up damper plates be a sign of transmission problems? If the trans were binding a little, would it cause repeated damper failures?


I think the way these transmissions work, if it were binding the only thing you would notice is creep when in gear either forward of backward. Even if the clutch pack comepletely fused together something would have to bind the prop enough to shatter the damper.

FrankSchwab
03-23-2011, 06:44 PM
I'd search for "damper plate" on here - there have been a number of threads in the past that had links to some beefy plates.

CantRepeat
03-23-2011, 07:16 PM
I'd search for "damper plate" on here - there have been a number of threads in the past that had links to some beefy plates.

"Beefy" always good! :D

blackcreek
03-23-2011, 07:48 PM
Well at least you know how to fix a boat now Brian.

FrankSchwab
03-24-2011, 12:23 AM
"Beefy" always good! :D

Beefy (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=37033&highlight=damper+plate), indeed.

dmminfla
03-24-2011, 08:36 AM
It sounds like it could be the damper plate. You could pull the starter and look for metal shavings in the bell housing.

You're welcome

CantRepeat
03-24-2011, 09:44 AM
Beefy (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=37033&highlight=damper+plate), indeed.

Now that is some grade A beef right there.

TRBenj
03-24-2011, 01:36 PM
Like I said, this is not the first time Ive heard of the recent SkiDIM dampers failing with low hours. I do not believe they are very high quality parts.

You want a higher quality (and cheaper) Sachs style. The ALTA-106 or 106A (trimmed down for a $30 upcharge) is what you want.

Dampers at Ebasicpower (http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=eBasicPower&Category_Code=DAMPERS)