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supersix
03-03-2011, 02:38 PM
Hey Gang
I'm in the market for a Prostar 197, I'm finding boats out there, most priced well over book price. After consulting with my local MC dealer, they can't give a prostar away, nobody wants them. Every customer that walks in wants X-Boats. He hasn't sold a prostar in 5 years, he's been the MC dealer for 15+ years. Nor has he taken one in trade, he had people trade in X7's and takes him months to sell. I saw the last 2 he took in trade, he gave $17.5k for both and sold for $22k each they were 2003's loaded in nice shape under 400 hours.

I've been a MC loyalist since I bought my first 190 in 1991, owned a 2001 X9 too. I'm a skier/footer and a part time WB'er. I can WB behind friends boats.

Getting your opinion? on 2003-2005 197's. Why are all most 197's for sale, sitting at an asking price of $35,000+ and they only book at $25,000 max on high end. A cumulative consciences for all I talked with, they agree with me they are over priced. And the resale market for a prostar is nonexistent. This is from 2 MC dealers. Could be a regional thing?

This post is not for a dealers perspective(I have that), I want the MC owners perspective.


Thanks

FourFourty
03-03-2011, 02:51 PM
Must be a regional thing I would think. Prostars seem to sell like hotcakes in this area.

dstone124
03-03-2011, 03:45 PM
I'd love to know what specific dealer you've been working with. I've got (2) ski buddies that would love to be sitting in a later model 197. The ones that hit the market aren't there long IF priced appropriately. I'd agree about your comment on fair market value and people thinking they have something special when selling. I'd ask what "book" you are using to evaluate as well.

My experience, the 197 is a hot item. The 190 is more commonplace and harder to move. The 205 is a crap shoot depending on the end user. Of course; every boat is subjective.

When I went looking for my 197 / x-7, my local dealer was of absolutely NO assistance. I was taking boat options to him and asking for opinions, ultimately doing his job (IMO).
At the end of the day, I drove 6hrs 1 way to buy my boat, from a dealer who I don't think believed I was a serious buyer until I was on his showroom floor with cashier's check in hand. Then again, I bought my carry over 06 dealer new with 15hrs in 08, so that may add to the "dealer perspective" you're referring too.

Bottom line if you find a clean, well equipped 197 with moderate hours in the year range you've described for less that $25K, buy it or PM me the link!
Good luck!

supersix
03-03-2011, 04:09 PM
I'd love to know what specific dealer you've been working with. I've got (2) ski buddies that would love to be sitting in a later model 197. The ones that hit the market aren't there long IF priced appropriately. I'd agree about your comment on fair market value and people thinking they have something special when selling. I'd ask what "book" you are using to evaluate as well.

My experience, the 197 is a hot item. The 190 is more commonplace and harder to move. The 205 is a crap shoot depending on the end user. Of course; every boat is subjective.

When I went looking for my 197 / x-7, my local dealer was of absolutely NO assistance. I was taking boat options to him and asking for opinions, ultimately doing his job (IMO).
At the end of the day, I drove 6hrs 1 way to buy my boat, from a dealer who I don't think believed I was a serious buyer until I was on his showroom floor with cashier's check in hand. Then again, I bought my carry over 06 dealer new with 15hrs in 08, so that may add to the "dealer perspective" you're referring too.

Bottom line if you find a clean, well equipped 197 with moderate hours in the year range you've described for less that $25K, buy it or PM me the link!
Good luck!
Your response is exactly what I was looking for. NADA book is what I'm basing info off.

east tx skier
03-03-2011, 04:12 PM
Most people buy 197s from private sellers I imagine. Every year, there are tons of low hour tournament team boats for sale in the mid to high 30s. People that want almost new, but not MSRP buy these. I have seen plenty of 197s in mid 20s from private sellers.

bturner2
03-03-2011, 06:15 PM
I heard a similar story from my dealer except that they still do sell tournament boats but will only stock one or two a year. Hi reasoning was that true tournament guys/gals tend to be very specific in what they want in their boat and that stock boats are thus hard to move. He also mentioned that the X1 was heading in this direction also.

MakeMineaS&S
03-03-2011, 08:52 PM
My experience, the 197 is a hot item. The 190 is more commonplace and harder to move.


I would have thought it was the opposite. I see 197s everywhere, but never EVER see a used 190 for sale, (at least in the 2005-current model years). Older 190s? Everywhere, but not new ones.

Hell, if I won the lottery, just to be different, (among other reasons), I would get a brand new 190, even though the 197 is arguably more useful.

Hell, the only used boat that is blowing my skirt up right now, (though I couldn't afford it), is the show-team 190 equipped with the L18 that BAWS has for sale. I even love the colors.

The only "new" 190s I've seen are pics on here of a "Nightmare" Edition 190 jump boat with the graphics removed and the aforementioned L18 190 show team boat.

georgea0731
03-04-2011, 09:18 PM
I sold an 04 X7 a few years ago. Then bought an 03 197 S&S (Ann.). Dealers seem to inflate prices that seem to lock your options in at very high prices. I'd say a predetermined strategy. As long as new boats are even higher then they can control or influence the used market. This is a long time practice by high end boats. I saw it years ago when I first started drooling on MCs. It seems similar to the used car market, list really high, negotate a little and sell for a good profit. If everyone does it then you're stuck.
Some 197's are listed for more now then mine was over 3 summers ago. I only got about $28,000 for mine from a dealer on consignment. I'd really believe some 03's could be haved for low $20's if you're patient.
Look at ski-it-again and compare prices and I think you'll see a wide range.
Good luck and best wishes,

supersix
03-05-2011, 10:41 AM
I sold an 04 X7 a few years ago. Then bought an 03 197 S&S (Ann.). Dealers seem to inflate prices that seem to lock your options in at very high prices. I'd say a predetermined strategy. As long as new boats are even higher then they can control or influence the used market. This is a long time practice by high end boats. I saw it years ago when I first started drooling on MCs. It seems similar to the used car market, list really high, negotate a little and sell for a good profit. If everyone does it then you're stuck.
Some 197's are listed for more now then mine was over 3 summers ago. I only got about $28,000 for mine from a dealer on consignment. I'd really believe some 03's could be haved for low $20's if you're patient.
Look at ski-it-again and compare prices and I think you'll see a wide range.
Good luck and best wishes,
Thanks, again another owner with a perspective I'm looking for. These dealers that have over inflated the prices are now have another hurdle, banks have tightened controls they won't loan more than book value not to mention tougher to qualify. This eliminates the majority of buyers.
Now you have some owners selling, follow the dealer prices. Great if you can get it, I don't blame them for trying. But will be harder to move versus a dealer. I want to buy from an owner, they have the best insight on their boat.
Again I posted this message to get info from "YOU" the owners, and you are reaffirming what I'm finding. Keep it coming. If more of you are aware, you too can make better choices.

east tx skier
03-05-2011, 10:47 AM
Good point about lenders not lending over "book" for boats. Probably tougher these days, but I ran into this when I bought my last boat, which was 10 years old. I was using a local credit union, which was very easy to work with. Sometimes, a smaller, local lender like this will be more understanding when you explain to them that the blue book values and the values of 10 year old tournament boats are not necessarily representative of actual market value. Again, this was 3.5 years ago, but some lenders will bend on this point.

bcboy
03-24-2011, 12:20 PM
Good Morning fellow TEAMTALK members,

With the Buying/Selling season heating up I was thinking it would be nice to know what boats are selling for in various markets.

I know the market is different in all parts of North America but it will be a usefull tool to our specific markets none the less.

If you feel comfortable to share it would be great to have as much info as possible to compare with so I will start with a some of my last sale examples!!

2003- 19 skier 310hp sold in 2006 (basic equiptment) $25,000

2006- x-1 350mcx sold in 2009 (well equipted) $42,000

2008 - X-star (current and not for sale)

All boats were sold in Vancouver B.C and at the end off the season...October

These boats were all bought from a dealer and I have always saved money by buying in the off season or buying inventory they have and would rather not hold on to for the winter!!!

The X-1 was a custom order but still ordered it in the Fall.

Probably should not include new boat purchase prices.

JohnE
03-24-2011, 12:43 PM
As mentioned, we can't discuss new boat pricing in a thread.

j4rowell
03-24-2011, 12:45 PM
09 X2 purchased in Nevada for 42k (Purchased January 2011)
127 Hours
MCX 350
Tandem Trailer
Bimini
Teak Platform
08 X2 purchased in Michigan for 47k with an Electric Lift (Purchased August 2010)
100 Hours
Blue metal flake
Bimini
Tower Speakers
Transom Lights
Fiberglass platform
Basic trailer/motor

JohnE
03-24-2011, 12:54 PM
FWIW I'd list options if you are posting pricing. Engine, trailer choice and all the rest of the options will put it in better perspective.

SWeaver
03-24-2011, 12:55 PM
2003 205v mcx, 2004 zeroflex tower with racks and speakers, tandem trailer 220hrs, mint condition, heater, bimini, cover $21500. SanFran purchase january.

JohnE
03-24-2011, 12:57 PM
Date of purchase, too....

bcboy
03-24-2011, 10:35 PM
09 X2 purchased in Nevada for 42k (Purchased January 2011)
127 Hours
MCX 350
Tandem Trailer
Bimini
Teak Platform
08 X2 purchased in Michigan for 47k with an Electric Lift (Purchased August 2010)
100 Hours
Blue metal flake
Bimini
Tower Speakers
Transom Lights
Fiberglass platform
Basic trailer/motor

Do you still have both X-2s ???

j4rowell
03-24-2011, 11:24 PM
mines the 09. Neighbors is the 08. We've each dropped an additional 10 to get them fully loaded now though...

showskier
03-25-2011, 11:35 AM
I just bought an 02 197 TT 6 months ago for $23,500. I thought i was getting a really good deal. It did have the small 310HP engine with a powerslot, perfect pass and needed minor upholstery work and some rubbing compound on the bottom of the hull to get it back to mint. Id think that a 197 with the MXC and in really good condition would fetch $26,000 or higher still. It seems the 385HP models are still going for a premium around 30K for the 02-03' still.
Id think that if you could grab a nice used 197 TT for around 25-26K you'd count yourself lucky. Good luck, coming from an '87 Ps190, this boat kicks the crap out of it. and dont worry, 310HP is plenty when paired with the powerslot. I can foot 4 people behind it at 38-40MPH and tow a 10 person pyramid with minimal effort!

ucwaterski
03-25-2011, 01:27 PM
2010 197TT - MCX, Heater, ZO. Northeast
Purchased Feb 2011. under 38k - private purchase.

Boat was super dirty, but no damage. All cleaned now.

supersix
03-26-2011, 12:25 PM
UPDATE: I just missed on a 2006 197 loaded with everything, MCX, single trailer at $27k.
BUT:
I found a 2007 197 with 400HP LY6 motor, mini tower, ski/w-board racks, bimini, cover, perfect pass, stereo w/ tower speakers, tandem trailer...$30k I think the motor is worth quite a bit $$$$
Thoughts!!!!

kyfooter
03-26-2011, 01:11 PM
Interesting thread. When it comes to valuing a boat, I always say it's worth what someone will pay...and what someone is willing to sell it for. I have an immaculate 2003 TT 197 (doesn't everyone believe their boat is immaculate though?). How I define immaculate might be different than someone else though. Has a custom cover, side curtain covers to keep the sun off the sides, even though its on a covered boat lift, PP, powerslot, heater, MTS ballast, depth, bimini, original MC TT cover, and so on. Trailer has -0- rust, new tires, and 302 hours. With the same hull (in general) as the current models, the boat is worth a lot to me. Would be nice to have Zero off, but perfect pass is close enough for me.

I wouldn't sell for mid $20k. Not when mid 90 ProStars are still selling for $15k+. However, it also depends on the seller's motive...if it's because the boat isn't used anymore, $25k or so is probably right...but if it's because the seller wants a new boat, I would bet $25k isn't enough.

Just my opinion. As long as new boat prices continue to go up at the rate they have, it's hard to argue for lower values on used boats. Chevy/Ford trucks on the other hand are quite different. Bought my Z71 truck in 2004 to match the boat...I bet my truck's value is about 50% of what I paid for it...if that even though it only has 44,000 miles with no scratches. Why? Because there are newer models, at fairly level pricing since early 2000s.

Supply and demand...if new prices go through the roof, used boat demand is a little higher = boats "maintain" value a little longer.

bcboy
03-26-2011, 01:29 PM
Probably missed the first one because it wasn't the right boat for you...this one sounds Great!!

I always think it will work out if it is meant to be...good luck.

j4rowell
03-26-2011, 04:02 PM
Interesting thread. When it comes to valuing a boat, I always say it's worth what someone will pay...and what someone is willing to sell it for. I have an immaculate 2003 TT 197 (doesn't everyone believe their boat is immaculate though?). How I define immaculate might be different than someone else though. Has a custom cover, side curtain covers to keep the sun off the sides, even though its on a covered boat lift, PP, powerslot, heater, MTS ballast, depth, bimini, original MC TT cover, and so on. Trailer has -0- rust, new tires, and 302 hours. With the same hull (in general) as the current models, the boat is worth a lot to me. Would be nice to have Zero off, but perfect pass is close enough for me.

I wouldn't sell for mid $20k. Not when mid 90 ProStars are still selling for $15k+. However, it also depends on the seller's motive...if it's because the boat isn't used anymore, $25k or so is probably right...but if it's because the seller wants a new boat, I would bet $25k isn't enough.

Just my opinion. As long as new boat prices continue to go up at the rate they have, it's hard to argue for lower values on used boats. Chevy/Ford trucks on the other hand are quite different. Bought my Z71 truck in 2004 to match the boat...I bet my truck's value is about 50% of what I paid for it...if that even though it only has 44,000 miles with no scratches. Why? Because there are newer models, at fairly level pricing since early 2000s.

Supply and demand...if new prices go through the roof, used boat demand is a little higher = boats "maintain" value a little longer.


Seems quite obvious. I think the point of the thread is to see what the markets is selling at, not to point out who got the best deals and/or what you would sell your boat for. Just saying... :D

Jim@BAWS
03-26-2011, 04:24 PM
http://www.bayareawatersports.com/searchengine/Details.aspx?diid=5397809&bvdid=3121&type=AN&indid=1&sortCol=Length&sortDir=DESC&