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SWeaver
02-22-2011, 03:42 PM
I ordered a viper system with shock, radar proximity, and a PA system. Not likely to come with boat installation instructions, though. Should be here in a few days, I'll install in a week or two.

Anybody got any tips on how to do the install?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-22-2011, 03:48 PM
I'd return it, I have had very bad luck with viper alarms(I'm a automobile tech) for years, if your looking for a way to disable ignition look into keypad ignition systems.

willyt
02-22-2011, 03:51 PM
mattscraft has a viper security system on his boat...

josepcedwards
02-22-2011, 04:48 PM
I'd return it, I have had very bad luck with viper alarms(I'm a automobile tech) for years, if your looking for a way to disable ignition look into keypad ignition systems.

Who makes this!!! I need.

I did car audio fo a number of years. We were a Viper dealer. The only thing that it would be good for would be the shock sensor or maybe a hood or truck switch for the engine hatch. That would only require a power and ground for just the sensor or if you wanted to do the switches , all you have to do is wire them in. What boat are you putting it in?

SWeaver
02-22-2011, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the responses. Though, I'm not doing it for the ignition protection. It would be unlikely to be stolen off the lift quietly, and there is a keypad to lower into the water. I'm more concerned with the prop, cover, stereo and ballast components etc. So, I'm doing it more for the radar proximity and shock protection/warning alarm to wake me up so I can lay down a beating.

What problems have you had with Viper and who else would you recommend for those features?

It's going in an 03 205V w/mcx.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-22-2011, 10:35 PM
@ josep its made by livorsi, see here http://www.livorsi.com/catalog/keypad_start.htm

@ SWeaver, a viper or any other type car alarm might work as a perimeter type alarm, usually in my exp with vipers its because the car stereo shop that installed it boched the job by using wrong connector types and not using proper power and ground signals, prob. would work for 10k miles or so then its gets towed into the dealership because the viper box shorted out the ECM or the BCM, i see this all the time, not saying that with you doing the install yourself on your boat that it's going to happen, aftermarket car alarms are very easy to bypass if someone really wants your stuff they will get it. An alarm or a lock only keeps an honest person out. I personally would look into getting a perimeter security system for your lift and the area. When I was in the navy we used these to "lockup" our aircraft when we were out of the country with one of these systems, http://www.lasorsa.com/blog1/aircraft-perimeter-security-systems/

just my 2 cents

JimN
02-22-2011, 11:02 PM
Thanks for the responses. Though, I'm not doing it for the ignition protection. It would be unlikely to be stolen off the lift quietly, and there is a keypad to lower into the water. I'm more concerned with the prop, cover, stereo and ballast components etc. So, I'm doing it more for the radar proximity and shock protection/warning alarm to wake me up so I can lay down a beating.

What problems have you had with Viper and who else would you recommend for those features?

It's going in an 03 205V w/mcx.

Proximity sensors are frequently triggered by water movement, so be prepared for a lot of falsing because a fiberglass boat doesn't have a ground plane (floor pan) to act as a barrier to the downward direction of the radar.

Rather than using a pin switch for the motor box, I would look at magnetic switches. You would mount the magnet to the cover and the switch to the floor, running the wires to wherever the control unit is. Also, make sure the control unit is well sealed, so water can't get in. Most car alarm controllers aren't completely sealed because they don't need to be. Soldering and heat shrink on the wire connections is the most dependable if the solder joints are good. If the wires move while the solder is cooling, the joint won't work well. Liquid electrical tape isn't the way to seal the connections, either. Heat N Seal butt splices would be a good alternative and some have low temperature solder inside, which would be the preferred method because they offer more protection than heat shrink tubing.

As mentioned, bad installation is the reason most installed accessories fail. Scotch Locks aren't the way to install anything and twisting/taping is just about as bad.

josepcedwards
02-22-2011, 11:39 PM
@ josep its made by livorsi, see here http://www.livorsi.com/catalog/keypad_start.htm

@ SWeaver, a viper or any other type car alarm might work as a perimeter type alarm, usually in my exp with vipers its because the car stereo shop that installed it boched the job by using wrong connector types and not using proper power and ground signals, prob. would work for 10k miles or so then its gets towed into the dealership because the viper box shorted out the ECM or the BCM, i see this all the time, not saying that with you doing the install yourself on your boat that it's going to happen, aftermarket car alarms are very easy to bypass if someone really wants your stuff they will get it. An alarm or a lock only keeps an honest person out. I personally would look into getting a perimeter security system for your lift and the area. When I was in the navy we used these to "lockup" our aircraft when we were out of the country with one of these systems, http://www.lasorsa.com/blog1/aircraft-perimeter-security-systems/

just my 2 cents

Thanks! Kinda high in price.. $309

SWeaver
02-23-2011, 12:14 AM
Thanks for the comments/suggestions.

What do you guys think about just using the proximity and bump protection and not the starter lockout? Would that prevent the potential for the ECM getting shorted out? Would the system (other than starter lockout) still work if i didn't hook it into the ECM and just used a power, ground and the accessory proximity unit?

That infrared perimeter thing sounds great if it was stored close to land or on land, but on a lift at the end of a 100' dock, I'm thinking it's tough to find places to mount those components.

Obviously, other than sleeping in the boat with a 12 gauge, nothing is absolutely safe. What I am trying to accomplish is to provide a way to give some warning in case somebody tries to rip stuff out of my boat. I understand if I am not home, it won't matter much. I have motion lights that go off, but I'm thinking that won't help if my eyes are closed. Just trying to add another layer of security to it.

josepcedwards
02-23-2011, 12:31 AM
Do you have pirates where you live!!??

JimN
02-23-2011, 07:04 AM
Thanks for the comments/suggestions.

What do you guys think about just using the proximity and bump protection and not the starter lockout? Would that prevent the potential for the ECM getting shorted out? Would the system (other than starter lockout) still work if i didn't hook it into the ECM and just used a power, ground and the accessory proximity unit?

That infrared perimeter thing sounds great if it was stored close to land or on land, but on a lift at the end of a 100' dock, I'm thinking it's tough to find places to mount those components.

Obviously, other than sleeping in the boat with a 12 gauge, nothing is absolutely safe. What I am trying to accomplish is to provide a way to give some warning in case somebody tries to rip stuff out of my boat. I understand if I am not home, it won't matter much. I have motion lights that go off, but I'm thinking that won't help if my eyes are closed. Just trying to add another layer of security to it.

Starter interrupt has absolutely nothing to do with the ECM. This is an alarm system, not an engine management device. It needs a constant voltage supply, ground, connections for the starter interrupt, sensor inputs and maybe an ignition lead sense wire.

If you want the stuff in your boat to be safe, don't leave it there and make it known that nothing of value is left in the boat.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-23-2011, 09:32 AM
@ jimn in todays cars ecm's along with bcm, pcm and other control units all play an integral part with vechicle's starting and not just cranking, 10 years ago this wasn't necessarly true,

@ sweaver its your boat and items in boat install alarm if you want to just make sure all connections are watertight and you will need to fine tune the alarm: ie, when the 502 blown jet boat blows by your dock does alarm go off? or can you sneak into boat without going off?, if your not wanting ignition protection then don't install that part of the alarm, the kit will include generac instructions just install the way you want it to work

SkiDog
02-23-2011, 10:01 AM
Why not put video cameras on the dock with motion sensors that will alert you to your smart phone.

SWeaver
02-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Thanks again for the discussion. Obviously there isn't anything that is the perfect answer by itself for any situation. A professional thief will likely get what they're after. Do you still lock your doors on your house at night? I do. What about the bedroom door, too? If you don't, you likely will once somebody breaks in while you're asleep. That's when we started to. Unfortunately, it was a little late. That extra layer of security wouldn't by itself have mattered. But, if you have enough roadblocks/layers, they start to make a little bit of a difference. IMHO and experience.

@ Joseph....yes lots of pirates. Big ugly ones with lots of parrots and eye patches. The occassional Somali makes a cameo too. 8p

@Jim N....The viper system has a starter killer. j.mccreight said that his experience showed him ECM failures due to the alarms shorting them out from bad connections, so something must hook into it, and I though it was that feature. I am trying to figure out if an install could be done without anything connecting to the ECM to prevent that, and didn't know if it was possible and if so, which features would likely not work. The heat splice connection recommendation is a good one, thanks.

@ skidog....I like the motion video camera idea. I'm gonna look into that too.

As far as taking my stuff out of the boat to keep it safe. Thanks again for the input. They don't make a quick release stereo and ballast systems. :rolleyes: I'd rather not remove the sunbrella cover, but i guess I should keep that inside, too. :D.

Seriously though.....yes, the wakeboards, skis etc come in with us. But, there's a bunch of people who've had ballast pumps cut out, stereo equip stolen and apparently boat covers (***?) stolen, and the occassional prop.

Motion lights + prox alarm + shock protector + motion cameras = layers.

JimN
02-23-2011, 10:48 AM
@ jimn in todays cars ecm's along with bcm, pcm and other control units all play an integral part with vechicle's starting and not just cranking, 10 years ago this wasn't necessarly true,

@ sweaver its your boat and items in boat install alarm if you want to just make sure all connections are watertight and you will need to fine tune the alarm: ie, when the 502 blown jet boat blows by your dock does alarm go off? or can you sneak into boat without going off?, if your not wanting ignition protection then don't install that part of the alarm, the kit will include generac instructions just install the way you want it to work

But we're not dealing with a new car here, we're dealing with a boat and I think we should stay on topic. The added complexity of newer cars is exactly why it's not worth doing, for most people. Not knowing how to make the connections correctly, identifying the wires, the ideosynchracies of the alarm and general electrical knowledge make it a losing proposition.

Another thing that may enter the picture is that many alarm manufacturers reduce the warranty unless it's installed by an authorized dealer/installer. Ironic as that may be in light of the quality (or lack thereof) of installation by authorized dealers, it's their policy and they usually don't bend on it.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-23-2011, 11:37 AM
@ jimn doesn't a 2003 205v MCX have an ecm? i think so, it controls spark, fuel duration and starting functions among other things. It's not like my 89 ts, as far as warranty, I don't think that any alarm manufacturer would warranty the install if it's not installed in an applicable vehicle, so if sweaver doesn't need ignition protection he doesn't need to hook up that part and he wouldn't take a chance of damanging his ecm, he's not voiding warranty because he has no warranty. Also I have never had an installer shop in 15 years of me doing this, step up to the plate to pay for their poor installation when weird things start happening and items get shorted out, it always falls on to the customer.

SWeaver
02-23-2011, 11:59 AM
The warranty won't be an issue for me. It's installed in a boat, so I assume it is voided. But thanks, because it's a valid point to make.

JMcC- I think you have a good understanding of what I am hoping to do. Assuming some functions (like starter kill) go through the ECM, if I elect to NOT hook that up.....Will the remaining features work? Then I don't risk shorting out ECM for a feature that I don't care about in the first place?

I think things like radar alarm, magnet/prox sensors, shock detect and associated light/siren should work, but you apparently have alot more experience with this. Do you know if this is correct?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-23-2011, 12:10 PM
Yes you should be able to hookup without using the starter interlock functions and the rest of functions 'should work'. You are customizing something that was not designed for your use, just becareful with your connections and pay attention to the supplied wiring diagram and you s.hould be okay.

JimN
02-23-2011, 12:46 PM
@ jimn doesn't a 2003 205v MCX have an ecm? i think so, it controls spark, fuel duration and starting functions among other things. It's not like my 89 ts, as far as warranty, I don't think that any alarm manufacturer would warranty the install if it's not installed in an applicable vehicle, so if sweaver doesn't need ignition protection he doesn't need to hook up that part and he wouldn't take a chance of damanging his ecm, he's not voiding warranty because he has no warranty. Also I have never had an installer shop in 15 years of me doing this, step up to the plate to pay for their poor installation when weird things start happening and items get shorted out, it always falls on to the customer.

ALL MC engines with fuel injection have an ECM and there's no connection from the starter circuit to the controller. At all. If the motor has TBW and you're trying to disable the ignition or starter, it still doesn't have anything to do with the ECM unless it's just a "slash and burn" installation. The ECM latches the fuel pump relay if it sees 300+RPM during crank. If the RPM is less, it doesn't even do that. However, I wouldn't recommend cutting the Ref Hi lead to the ECM because that connection could go bad while under way, at the worst possible time. There are several ways to keep it from starting without ever touching the wires to the ECM- there's a safety switch, the neutral safety switch, the crank lead at the key or starter, etc. OTOH, an alarm that only protects these can be rowed away without alerting anyone. Plus, it's likely that anyone who's on a mission for this boat would find out if it's alarmed before attempting anything. That way, they can find out where the siren is so it can be disabled quickly.

Re: "applicable vehicle", some alarm manufacturers state that the warranty is void if used in a marine application, too. Not all alarms are well sealed, if at all. If it's for marine, it's usually designated as such and completely sealed.

This is a security device, not a noise maker. If a noise maker is needed, it's very easy to do that with a few relays, switches, a horn and maybe some lights. There's no reason to use an actual alarm for that, at all.

The shops I worked in and ran had a lifetime warranty on their installation. If we screwed it up, we fixed it at N/C to the customer as long as it hadn't been altered. We had standard methods and connectors, so we could see this pretty easily. If we saw Scotch Locks and wire nuts, we knew it wasn't our work. If your shops don't step up when they screw up, you need to find someone else to do this kind of work. FWIW, I was also a MC tech.

JimN
02-23-2011, 12:55 PM
The warranty won't be an issue for me. It's installed in a boat, so I assume it is voided. But thanks, because it's a valid point to make.

JMcC- I think you have a good understanding of what I am hoping to do. Assuming some functions (like starter kill) go through the ECM, if I elect to NOT hook that up.....Will the remaining features work? Then I don't risk shorting out ECM for a feature that I don't care about in the first place?

I think things like radar alarm, magnet/prox sensors, shock detect and associated light/siren should work, but you apparently have alot more experience with this. Do you know if this is correct?

Do you have a snap-on cover or does it tie down? If it has snaps, you can get a switch that looks like a regular snap (they make several kinds) and as soon as the cover is lifted at that snap, or series of snaps, the alarm is tripped. You could also use a pressure pad on the floor at the most likely point of entry. If you leave it uncovered and have raccoons in the area, all bets are off. You could use an "electric eye", too. I think Radio Shack still sells them and I have used these on boats before.

jk13
02-23-2011, 01:09 PM
EDIT: JimN beat me to it. Good job Jim.

I have been an aftermarket installer for 18 years now. I have dealt with Viper and other brands and like stated before, there are some hacks out there and they are the cause of these issues, not the product. I am not saying you have not seen issues because of these systems, but here are some thoughts:

Any issues with a BCM would be related to power door lock integration, parking lights, memory seat (if hooked up), power window roll up (if hooked up), and other body functions.

Any issues with an ECM would be related to a remote starter (not an alarm only), and really the only one would be an improperly identified tach signal wire that has become frayed or cut through and disconnected. Most new car issues have to do with remote starters (not alarms) and how they integrate with the security key systems in the cars. Chevy's Pass-Lock, Chrysler's Securi-Key, Ford's PATS system, and the like. I do not think your Mastercraft has any system like this, and with an alarm only and not a remote starter, you don't have to worry about it. If you want to discuss how remote starters work and how simple they really are, send me a pm. I don't want to take up more space here with an unrelated topic.

A starter kill circuit is simply a relay that disconnects the starter wire behind the key cylinder when the alarm is armed, it cannot fry an ECM, or a BCM for that matter. Worst case is that once the alarm is disarmed, it would not reconnect the wire (which is the default or non-energized state of the relay) and the boat would not crank.



Now with all of that being said, I DO NOT recommend putting an alarm in a boat for all the reasons mentioned above. If equipped with a proximity sensor, it will false alarm from the waves below and the cover being blown in the wind. If equipped with a shock sensor, it would have to be set extremely sensitive to get a reading from the cover or prop being removed, so it will false alarm from boats driving by. It will really become more of a pain than it's worth, and I would bet you will stop using it after the first weekend. HOWEVER, pinswitch buttons (well lubricated on a regular basis) on the cover snaps and magnetic or mercury switches on the compartments containing the gear mentioned would be the best way to go to avoid false alarms and keep most of it safe(r).


Good luck.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-23-2011, 01:30 PM
jimn we recommend our customers not to install aftermarket alarms on their cars, the factory security systems are much better than aftermarket, but as you probable know some people just "want it" regardless of warnings. My new car department does not sell them either. Car toys, best buy and others around my dealership say the same thing "lifetime guarantee" but when there is problems they never back their work. I suggested he not use an alarm but another route to take like this http://www.lasorsa.com/blog1/aircraft-perimeter-security-systems/. we can go around and around on car type boat type installation techniques this brand or another I'm just giving my experience from a new car dealer standpoint when using aftermarket products, there are some people than never have problems out of their alarms but when they do it's usually very costly to repair.

MattsCraft
02-23-2011, 01:30 PM
Here is the system I have: I recommend adding the 30 watt siren and one additional hatch sensor! Works great! You can also add a module to flash your docking lights.

http://www.boatalarm.com/index.html

SWeaver
02-23-2011, 01:30 PM
The cover is from skiboatcovers.com.....no snaps. Are the magnetic or mercury sensors run through an alarm system or are they a totally self contained alarm? What about the electric eye or pressure pad? Do any of these go through the horn or a separate siren or other alerting device?

I live on the lake, the boat is about 150 feet away. I want something to wake me up and alert me to the situation.....I want a loud alarm, but not at the expense of damaging the boat too..

jk13. No remote starter, so no need for that detail this time around, but thanks. So, then the ECM shouldn't be affected by the starter kill, because that would be a connection at the ignition and not related to the ECM at all? Just want to make sure I am following you in case I decide to go ahead with the install.

Good info:D

JimN
02-23-2011, 05:45 PM
jimn we recommend our customers not to install aftermarket alarms on their cars, the factory security systems are much better than aftermarket, but as you probable know some people just "want it" regardless of warnings. My new car department does not sell them either. Car toys, best buy and others around my dealership say the same thing "lifetime guarantee" but when there is problems they never back their work. I suggested he not use an alarm but another route to take like this http://www.lasorsa.com/blog1/aircraft-perimeter-security-systems/. we can go around and around on car type boat type installation techniques this brand or another I'm just giving my experience from a new car dealer standpoint when using aftermarket products, there are some people than never have problems out of their alarms but when they do it's usually very costly to repair.

The great thing about OEM alarms is that the harnesses are made for the module to be installed and that's where the wheels fall off for the aftermarket installed units. Another problem is that too many dealers just grab the cash and don't care about training their installers.

How about an IP camera and a remotely controlled mini gun?

SWeaver
02-23-2011, 07:32 PM
How about an IP camera and a remotely controlled mini gun?

Nothing would make me happier than to be at work, plucking off some thug with my Android phone. There's gotta be an app for that.......

T-bone
02-23-2011, 10:34 PM
I second the Flagship Marine Skiboat Alarm. I have 2 deck sensors underneath the floor and all compartments have magnetic switches. It arms and disarms with a key fob. I set it even when we dock at a restaurant on the lake. A number of times I've gone back to the boat to grab something and forgot it was alarmed. Stepping on the floor sets it off and it definitely gets your attention.

http://www.boatalarm.com/skiboatalarms.html

I also have a couple of surveillance cameras pointed at the dock and they record continuously to a 500 GB hard-drive, capturing 7-days of video before starting to overwrite the first day. It's hooked to a router so I can view it over the internet when we are away. We initially tried the motion detector cameras, but any waves hitting the dock or boat lift would set it off.

http://www.surveillance-video.com/alldi2coirni.html

Of course the alarm, cameras, and warning signs were all installed after we had the stereo, amp, tools, etc. stolen out of the boat while it was on the lift. You are doing it right by installing the alarm before that happens.

Yellow X9
02-23-2011, 11:34 PM
jimn we recommend our customers not to install aftermarket alarms on their cars, the factory security systems are much better than aftermarket, but as you probable know some people just "want it" regardless of warnings. My new car department does not sell them either. Car toys, best buy and others around my dealership say the same thing "lifetime guarantee" but when there is problems they never back their work. I suggested he not use an alarm but another route to take like this http://www.lasorsa.com/blog1/aircraft-perimeter-security-systems/. we can go around and around on car type boat type installation techniques this brand or another I'm just giving my experience from a new car dealer standpoint when using aftermarket products, there are some people than never have problems out of their alarms but when they do it's usually very costly to repair.

"the factory security systems are much better than aftermarket, but as you probable know some people just "want it" regardless of warnings"

Not sure what dealership you work for, doesn't really matter though. A factory alarm covers HARD Enrty points only!-Doors, truck, hood. As stated before all vehicles 2003 and newer have some point of immobilization built in to the Vehicle,ie-PK11, Pass lock, Transponder and even 80-bit encrypted keys. So with that said I would just break the window, never open the door, crawl in thru the window and help myself to the contents of your vehicle. Im here to defend After Mkt-as I work in the-12-Volt industry, currrently and for the past 34-years. There are hack shops out there, word to the wise or that note. In some cases on NEW cars, what the dealership calls a Security System is no-more than a Keyless entry system! And to top off my rant on dealerships / Car manufacture's, it sure is funny how they take a hard look at the after Mkt world! Problem with dealerships, they look in the vehicle 1st, if there anything after Mkt, it automatically assumed thats the problem with the vehicle!

Back to the Security system on the boat, can completely be done. I would cover all entry points with magnetic switches as they don't false, steer clear of Micro-wave / impact sensors A starter interupt curcuit breaks connection between the Key and the starter and nothing else-so no issues are gonna arrise from this. Its your boat, protect it. As far as your connections when wiring up the sec system in your boat, solder and heat shrink and you'll have no issues, place the brain behind the instrument cluster and you'll be good togo.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-24-2011, 12:49 AM
Why has this became bash on my car dealership thread, I work for an import dealer, we dont sell or install aftermarket systems because of the problems thats can arise from these systems being tied into factory systems. From our experience only, now I know a lot of new car dealerships install alarm we dont. im sure there are some systems thats work great but our experience is thats its best not to install these because of the expensive problems they can cause down the road. Can a car systems be used in a boat maybe, is there better options to protect a boat slip and property yes.

JimN
02-24-2011, 12:55 AM
I think a trained attack badger would do the trick.

SWeaver
02-24-2011, 08:36 AM
I'm currently training some ill-tempered small mouth bass, but they won't be ready in time :)

Seriously though, screw it, I'm just gonna install all these ideas (viper, ski boat with the floor and magnet switches and motion lights and a video system). One is bound to work, and it'd still be cheaper than replacing all the stuff a couple times, plus as an added bonus, I might get to pistol whip somebody.:rant:

Yellow X9
02-24-2011, 08:42 AM
Why has this became bash on my car dealership thread, I work for an import dealer, we dont sell or install aftermarket systems because of the problems thats can arise from these systems being tied into factory systems. From our experience only, now I know a lot of new car dealerships install alarm we dont. im sure there are some systems thats work great but our experience is thats its best not to install these because of the expensive problems they can cause down the road. Can a car systems be used in a boat maybe, is there better options to protect a boat slip and property yes.

You ask why- re-read your post, bash on the after mkt world. Sorry, I work for the after mkt world. and yes there are other options for boat slips, but your not going to feel confortable spending $100 for piece of mind

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-24-2011, 10:44 AM
You are correct in saying most factory security systems are hard points along with an IMMOBILIZER system is all the new cars use, but when weird things happen in my experience (16 years Nissan) on a car with aftermarket stuff added 9 times out of 10 its the aftermarket componets that have failed. I was simply telling sweaver that using a viper car alarm for his boat slip is not the best option. I don't have customers come in and say "you know my viper car alarm works great" its usually because the car gets towed in for not starting or the lights or horn acts weird.
I had a customer just 3 weeks ago have their 2009 Pathfinder towed if for 'dying while driving'. 65 miles tow bill = $180. After checking it out the next morning and test driving the truck for 35 miles, hwy driving, city driving, and short stop trips I could not duplicate the concern. The next day the husband says his wife was driving at dusk and when she turned on her headlights the truck died, she restarted with no problem but when she turned on her headlights again to pull out it died and called a tow truck. Having that information I start to check out the IPDM system, which controls the ground for the headlights and the ECM and I found a clifford system installed in the headlight circuit, the installer wired it in for headlight functions. Now I had no need to condemn the alarm because everything seemed to be working. But the when she was turning on the headlights it was killing the ground for the ecm and hence the dying, I asked the customer how long has this been going on and they said it just started, and they had the alarm installed last week this was the first time they were driving at night with the headlights on. So I gave the customer the option of sending it back to the installer or having me remove it from their truck, they wanted it removed so I did. After it was removed no more dying. The customer said that they will not install anything aftermarket on their cars again. We did not charge the customer for 4 days of work nor did we charge them for the tow bill. However we did earn their business from another dealer, who had the alarm installed for them.
This is the type of stuff that I deal with with aftermarket items, its not just alarm but dvd players, headrest monitors and radios. So if it seems I am biased then maybe just giving my experience.

Yellow X9
02-24-2011, 10:52 AM
You are correct in saying most factory security systems are hard points along with an IMMOBILIZER system is all the new cars use, but when weird things happen in my experience (16 years Nissan) on a car with aftermarket stuff added 9 times out of 10 its the aftermarket componets that have failed. I was simply telling sweaver that using a viper car alarm for his boat slip is not the best option. I don't have customers come in and say "you know my viper car alarm works great" its usually because the car gets towed in for not starting or the lights or horn acts weird.
I had a customer just 3 weeks ago have their 2009 Pathfinder towed if for 'dying while driving'. 65 miles tow bill = $180. After checking it out the next morning and test driving the truck for 35 miles, hwy driving, city driving, and short stop trips I could not duplicate the concern. The next day the husband says his wife was driving at dusk and when she turned on her headlights the truck died, she restarted with no problem but when she turned on her headlights again to pull out it died and called a tow truck. Having that information I start to check out the IPDM system, which controls the ground for the headlights and the ECM and I found a clifford system installed in the headlight circuit, the installer wired it in for headlight functions. Now I had no need to condemn the alarm because everything seemed to be working. But the when she was turning on the headlights it was killing the ground for the ecm and hence the dying, I asked the customer how long has this been going on and they said it just started, and they had the alarm installed last week this was the first time they were driving at night with the headlights on. So I gave the customer the option of sending it back to the installer or having me remove it from their truck, they wanted it removed so I did. After it was removed no more dying. The customer said that they will not install anything aftermarket on their cars again. We did not charge the customer for 4 days of work nor did we charge them for the tow bill. However we did earn their business from another dealer, who had the alarm installed for them.
This is the type of stuff that I deal with with aftermarket items, its not just alarm but dvd players, headrest monitors and radios. So if it seems I am biased then maybe just giving my experience.

Fair enough- we could go on all day about this, I too have stories about dealerships, current draws, ECU's, ECM's, factory security measures that fail, but i'll stop on my rant.
Its Miller time

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-24-2011, 10:54 AM
Agree its 5 oclock somewhere

SWeaver
03-07-2011, 11:52 AM
Well, all that arguing and I changed my mind anyway.....
Thanks for all the info, though. I decided the false alarms would drive me nuts quickly and went in a couple other directions. Thanks again!

JimN
03-07-2011, 02:27 PM
Well, all that arguing and I changed my mind anyway.....
Thanks for all the info, though. I decided the false alarms would drive me nuts quickly and went in a couple other directions. Thanks again!

As much as I like the starter kill aspect of car alarms, them amounting to little more than a noise-maker due to false alarms makes it annoying and I think we have all been in a shopping center parking lot where at least one person has triggered their alarm and let it go. almost as if they're announcing to the world that they have an alarm and it's futile to try to steal their car. It becomes a 'Boy who cried "WOLF!" ' situation.

Maybe snake-head fish could be used.