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View Full Version : Ballast Questions- Intergrated Bow Sac or Lead up front? (2003 X-2)


Jason99T/A
02-20-2011, 06:04 PM
I am on the fence about what to do to effictively add weight to the front of my '03 X-2. Currently, I have 750 lb sacs in the rear (hard tanks removed) and factory 300lb KGB in the ski locker. I normally fill them to around 500lbs each.

I'd like to add ~500 lbs to the front. Not sure an Integrated Bow Sac (IBS) will get me there as I heard you cannot fill them to full capacity due to space limitations under the seat. I was thinking about simply adding 400-500lbs of lead from Pop Products (http://www.pop-products.com/products/). How much weight can the IBS effectively add?

I was looking at the Wakemakers piggy back setup (http://www.wakemakers.com/mastercraft-piggyback-bow-ballast-system.html) for the IBS.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Jason

MIskier
02-20-2011, 07:19 PM
I would go with the bow sac for sure. The problem with adding the lead is that once you ballast down you are stuck with that weight until you make it back to the dock. Having 400-500 extra pounds in the boat with the other tanks empty could cause handling issues depending on how many people are in the boat and where they are located.

willyt
02-20-2011, 11:05 PM
I have an 05 X2, and have 200 lbs of lead up front. I'd be hesitant about putting 500lbs up there, but IMO these boats need at least 200lb of permenent weight up there. You could also try throwing a 300lb fatsac in the walkway (which I do). Perhaps a hybrid option for you

jason@wakemakers.com
02-21-2011, 02:17 PM
No doubt that you need extra weight up front with that hull, especially with the larger bags in the rear of the boat.

Ultimately I think it comes down to how you use the boat, and how important that storage space is. If you live on a lake and the boat is on a lift 100% of the time (with sufficient capacity for the lead up front), then that's a fine route to go.

If you trailer the boat though, be very careful, as essentially 100% of bow weight is picked up by the tongue of the trailer, and most of the time you'll be at or very near the max of your trailer and hitch setup without any additional weight, so putting an extra 500 pounds up there will blow right through a Class III rating.

Of course you could always move the lead from the boat to the two vehicle, and while that sounds like an awesome time, I'm pretty sure I'd get stick of doing it every time I use the boat.

CantRepeat
02-21-2011, 03:11 PM
If you trailer the boat though, be very careful, as essentially 100% of bow weight is picked up by the tongue of the trailer, and most of the time you'll be at or very near the max of your trailer and hitch setup without any additional weight, so putting an extra 500 pounds up there will blow right through a Class III rating.



That's extremely important post right there.

Most folks are only concerned with on the water performance and don't think to much about real safety issues.

Good looking out Jason!

mallees
02-21-2011, 05:42 PM
I have an 04X2 and I found I could get more weight up front by putting 100kgs/220lbs of lead up front and plumbing in 2 Fly-High side sacks under the front seats. They are rated at 260lbs each, but they dont fill all the way before the front seats pop up. I would guess that you can get 200-220lbs in each. Thats a total of about 620-660lbs and its all under the seats. I only have the 400lb sacks down back and find the wake to be pretty well balanced and way bigger than my ability will ever need.:o

djkslc
02-21-2011, 06:53 PM
I have an 02 xstar with the integrated fly high sack under the front seats. Because I use it for skiing, wakeboarding, and surfing I like having the ability to control how much weight I have up front. I am one of the rare ones that still have the 200lb tanks in the back.

nmcjr
02-22-2011, 07:43 PM
The more weight up front the better. I think the consensus is that the IBS only gets you to the ~350# range. I tried several other configurations and now I run the bow triangle, filled to capacity and am very happy with it. I only use lead to balance side to side and only have 120# of lead on board.

mattdda
02-22-2011, 08:20 PM
Do any of you guys have problems with the perfect pass not being able to maintain speed with that much weight? I find that mine can't find the right compensation (over, then under, then farther over, then farther under) when I add ANY non-factory ballast.

I have an 03 X30, factory KGB, (2 rear, 1 in locker) - and when i add 250 to 300 lb to each side in the back - even with 2 other people in the boat - it just can't handle it.

I've tried adjusting the kDw and the NDS (or whatever they are...basically, the aggressivenes to compensate and sample rate, respectively) - and that doesn't seem to help.

Any advice as to what to do differently?

nmcjr
02-22-2011, 08:34 PM
Mine holds speed really well and I'm running ~2000#. As I recall I have my KDW at 200 and my NN at 60. What settings have you tried? You will have problems if you don't have the KDW high and the NN low.

I have friends with Calabrias and a Supra who could not get their boats to hold speed to matter what settings we tried and they fluctuated terribly. However, I think those must have had to do with the placement of the paddle wheel, that's the only thing I could figure.

mattdda
02-22-2011, 09:02 PM
I think it's set at 130 or 150 for the kdw...don't remember the nn. Will definitely try to boost it up...was always a bit leary before because the factory setting is 100.

I'll certainly give it a shot!

thx!

jason@wakemakers.com
02-23-2011, 01:21 AM
Outside of the sampling and response rate adjustments in Perfect Pass, there are two main factors that contribute to speed holding:

1. Distribution of weight: If you have a bias of weight towards the stern of the boat it will be much more difficult (for Perfect Pass or a human) to maintain consistent speed. I'm concerned about this setup for you, as it sounds like all of the weight you've added is in the rear of the boat.

2. Propeller: Just like the transmission in your car, the prop determines the engine's mechanical advantage, and if you're in too high of a gear, just like in your car, you'll have a hard time maintaining speed. That's why re-proping when you add additional weight to the boat is important.

mattdda
02-23-2011, 07:18 PM
I've considered the distribution - but please tell me if I'm thinking about it wrong:

Having just the 2 factory boxes full in the back with no middle bag, I have no issues. So, adding two additional bags to the back, and filling the middle provides the same weight balance - just sitting lower in the water. I think the issue is my error - incorrect perfectpass settings. I can maintain the speed MUCH better than the perfect pass with all of that weight - so my riders aren't as affected as I am - because they can't! hah! Of course, after having all of that weight - I've found it to be overkill for my skill. I need to gain more skill before I need a wall of wake like that...

Prop - already working on that. Skidim set me up with the size I need, I just need to call back and order it up. We've just moved so I'm waiting for bills to settle out (and sell my other house). And I know you're right that it'll help.

I think my next test is to increase the settings on the perfect pass and see where that takes me. Seems to me like it can't be the hull (otherwise I'd hear more from some of you guys), can't be the extra weight (so many people add lots of ballast with no issues). The only think I can't rule out is the perfect pass and the prop. Will have the new prop for March 9th - so I'll hopefully eliminate that consideration. Last test will be perfect pass...

...we shall see...

nmcjr
02-24-2011, 10:16 PM
Just to clarify, you only want to increase the KDW, you want to lower the NN (do both). And don't worry about changing these settings, you can't hurt anything with them. The worst thing is that if you go too far it may feel "nervous" especially without extra weight. In fact, mine does feel this way when unloaded, but there's really no way to have good speed hold when loaded without that when empty and its not that bad anyway.

Also, you should probably look at your speed pickup paddlewheel to make sure there aren't any broken teeth or any weeds tangled on it etc.

mattdda
02-24-2011, 11:01 PM
Aaaahhhh!!! I was under the impression I was to raise both. I'll certainly have to lower the nn, then!!

Thanks!!

Jason99T/A
02-28-2011, 11:55 PM
Well guys... I bought the IBS from Wakemakers this afternoon. I'll post some pics of the install and hopefully de-winterize the boat this weekend! Big thanks to Jason@Wakemakers for all the help with the complete ballast setup on my boat.

brucemac
03-01-2011, 01:53 AM
fill up the ibs 3/8 and lets see some pics!

jason@wakemakers.com
03-07-2011, 09:18 PM
Bruce is just antsy because he wants that bag in his boat and wants to know what it's going to look like full! :D

Jason99T/A
03-08-2011, 11:51 AM
IBS showed up this morning. I hope to install this weekend and get out on the water shortly!

G-Star
03-08-2011, 04:26 PM
IBS showed up this morning. I hope to install this weekend and get out on the water shortly!

Pictures!!! :D

Kummer
06-24-2011, 12:02 AM
What! still no pictures - c'mon man! let me see um

jason@wakemakers.com
06-30-2011, 02:40 PM
We've got pics of the install, is that what you're looking for?

agarabaghi
06-30-2011, 02:50 PM
I run about 560lbs of lead in the nose of my boat. I leave it in the nose all the time as my boat is wet stored almost 24/7. When i do pull the boat out i remove almost all of the lead and leave it on the dock.

Its 14bags from pop-products.com
Pics:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7893/imageuep.jpg

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4241/imagebbh.jpg

Smoothie
06-30-2011, 03:28 PM
I went with lead keep 200 in the nose and the rest beside my drivers seat and under passenger seat 200. When boarding just move the rest to the front. What I understand is you could only get about 200 to 250 with the integrated bow sack and the boat needs more with my set up.

agarabaghi
06-30-2011, 03:29 PM
yup.

560 up front
370 in ski locker
1500 in rear.

mccobmd
06-30-2011, 09:11 PM
I was out this weekend and put a v-drive sac up front in the middle. Got about 500lbs in it. I didn't want water under the seats so tried this. Got 550lb as a pair and use the second in the back when surfing.