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BHT
02-15-2011, 05:56 PM
Already starting to get the bug for the 2011 season and wanting to upgrade from MC Cruise to PP StarGazer or Zero Off (this is for a 07 X1). Did a search on TT and seems that folks are happy with either one. PP is less expensive for mine and I hear nothing but good things about their CS. Would there be any reason to pay more $ and get the ZO?

I know this has been discussed before but I thought I'd ask for a update from users of the GPS based system on rivers. 50% of the time I'm on a river with a reasonable current, will I hate trying to get the speed right and wish I'd stayed with the paddle wheel?

east tx skier
02-15-2011, 08:07 PM
I don't think you can make Zero Off work on an 07 (possible you could do some serious reworking of the system, but I don't think it'll work out of the box). SG is a great system. If you have a paddle wheel on your boat and you get SG, order the system from Perfect Pass and tell them (or your dealer if they do it for you) that you want the latest incarnation of SG with the river option. They do not advertise this option, but it basically allows you to utilize the paddle wheel for speed when you are dealing with a river current or turn it off when you want pure gps.

BHT
02-15-2011, 08:20 PM
This is the exact reason why I like TT so much! Thanks east tx skier.

mccobmd
02-15-2011, 09:40 PM
I had conisdered upgrading but so far the MC cruise has worked well enough I've used that budget for wake boards, wake ski's and more ballast.

BHT
02-16-2011, 12:08 AM
The MC Cruise does work pretty well. The problem I run in to is when my wife or friends who are not very experienced with driving pull me they blast through the speed and fumble around a bit getting cruise to pull the speed back. I had PP on other boats and it would pick up the speed early and take it from there. Needless to say the wife and I had a few words over this last summer :rant:

BHT
02-16-2011, 12:05 PM
I did a search on WakeWorld and a couple people complained about PP SG being slow to stabilize on the target speed. I find that difficult to believe otherwise the system would be useless on a slalom course.

east tx skier
02-16-2011, 12:29 PM
I did a search on WakeWorld and a couple people complained about PP SG being slow to stabilize on the target speed. I find that difficult to believe otherwise the system would be useless on a slalom course.

Questions that should be asked on this issue is whether the system is mechanical or drive by wire and, if mechanical, what version of SG they are running. The original incarnation of SG for boats with a mechanical throttle was a little slow to lock in. With the current update (the 2008 update), the system settles in nicely. That said, you still have to aim for your speed, set point, whether you you have a mechanical or digital throttle control system. The driver can't push the throttle 3/4--full and expect the system to immediately adjust.

brucemac
02-16-2011, 01:05 PM
I did a search on WakeWorld and a couple people complained about PP SG being slow to stabilize on the target speed. I find that difficult to believe otherwise the system would be useless on a slalom course.

I do not have this issue. I've been very happy with SG. ETS is right, you can't just burry the throttle.

If anybody here has ordered the paddle wheel software update, please share your experience. I'm considering it.

east tx skier
02-16-2011, 01:20 PM
It was described to me by someone at PP as being a complete paddle wheel based system. So if you have ever used WB pro, it's like that.

brucemac
02-16-2011, 01:22 PM
yup yup, was just curious what was involved. it's just a software flash with a thumb drive isn't it or does it require a whole new master module? i emailed PP to find out. it would be nice to have the option, but i can't see spending a ton of money on it.

east tx skier
02-16-2011, 01:25 PM
Probably could be flashed. Just an alternate version of the current update. For slalom, I'd just as soon run it in practice mode and adjust speed for current. I never liked pure pw speed mode for skiing.

brucemac
02-16-2011, 01:30 PM
yeah maybe i'll pick up the phone and just call them...thanks ets.

brucemac
02-16-2011, 02:21 PM
Mark from PP emailed me back. $75+shipping. I just need to verify wiring harness has the paddle wheel wire connected to the master module and I'd be set. Upgrade instructions look painless. I'll probably end up doing this in the Spring.

east tx skier
02-16-2011, 03:02 PM
Mark from PP emailed me back. $75+shipping. I just need to verify wiring harness has the paddle wheel wire connected to the master module and I'd be set. Upgrade instructions look painless. I'll probably end up doing this in the Spring.

If it's the flash drive method, it's really easy.

BHT
02-16-2011, 04:29 PM
My previous experience with PP was to smoothly throttle up until the beep and then PP would take over to the target speed. What I don't like about MC Cruise is I have to go past the target speed and let cruise bring the speed back down. This is where less experienced drivers seem to have trouble, they always throttle to far past the target speed and I feel like I'm water skiing instead of wakeboarding LOL.

I too emailed Mark at PP and he described it this way (We have a version of software that lets you turn the GPS on, off or mixed. When the GPS is turned off the system will look for a paddle wheel speed signal. The mixed mode will control from the paddle wheel but will use the GPS for calibration. This can be useful if your paddle wheel causes a lot of surging).

It's only an additional $75 to the PP SG kit to have this capability. This could be the answer for us who frequent both lakes and rivers.

east tx skier
02-16-2011, 05:23 PM
My previous experience with PP was to smoothly throttle up until the beep and then PP would take over to the target speed. What I don't like about MC Cruise is I have to go past the target speed and let cruise bring the speed back down. This is where less experienced drivers seem to have trouble, they always throttle to far past the target speed and I feel like I'm water skiing instead of wakeboarding LOL.

I too emailed Mark at PP and he described it this way (We have a version of software that lets you turn the GPS on, off or mixed. When the GPS is turned off the system will look for a paddle wheel speed signal. The mixed mode will control from the paddle wheel but will use the GPS for calibration. This can be useful if your paddle wheel causes a lot of surging).

It's only an additional $75 to the PP SG kit to have this capability. This could be the answer for us who frequent both lakes and rivers.

The mixed option sounds like the original version of SG where the GPS and paddle wheel provided the speed overlay. In a river current, what ends up happening, is that the GPS keeps trying to correct the speed input given by the paddle wheel. Since GPS represents speed over ground and the paddle wheel represents speed over water, the GPS ultimately wins out since its function is to correct the paddle wheel. In that case, your actual speed over water will not be the same as the speed the system ultimately attempts to maintain.

In wakeboarding and free skiing, speed over water is what you want to be accurate. In slalom course skiing, speed over land (or the set distance of the course) is what's important.

That's why my preference is to just figure out the current (best guess) or use the airguide speedometer to figure out my speed over water and set the speed on SG higher to adjust. Again, this is just based on my aversion to free skiing in speed mode based on how it feels.

BHT
02-16-2011, 11:46 PM
ETS very helpful info thanks. Using the second speedo to base your speed over the water is a great idea. Now I can understand why there's still limitations on getting accurate speed while on a river. Still thinking that for $75 it's probably worth getting that option.

BHT
02-17-2011, 12:20 AM
ETS I just read a post from you last May about using the RPM adjust to help with river current. Is that just using RPM mode or can you make small RPM adjustments while in GPS mode?

BHT
02-17-2011, 10:44 AM
One last thought, I should be able to read the speed of the river current on the GPS while the boat is at rest on the water?

east tx skier
02-17-2011, 10:52 AM
ETS I just read a post from you last May about using the RPM adjust to help with river current. Is that just using RPM mode or can you make small RPM adjustments while in GPS mode?

There is an RPM adjustment in GPS mode and GPS practice mode. Typically, these days, we just adjust the speed up or down though. But either way should work.

east tx skier
02-17-2011, 10:55 AM
One last thought, I should be able to read the speed of the river current on the GPS while the boat is at rest on the water?

I don't think that will work, but might be worth trying. Theoretically, they could build some sort of current capture program to determine river current into the system whereby you press a button, it measures start position, a certain amount of time passes, it measures your position then, and determines the river current and adjusts for it until you tell it to stop, i.e., when you're not on the river again that day.

DeVrieski
07-08-2011, 01:57 AM
I have been reading through several threads here on PP Stargazer. I have a 2000 PS 205 without any speed control. I would really like to get PP and am not set on it being stargazer gps or just the paddle wheel type as far as functionality goes - I just want some form of speed control. But, that being said, I do ski on a river about 40% of the time. I like the idea of not drilling a hole in the bottom of my boat, but if the GPS controlled system will not work well on a river then maybe this is the route I need to take. Any thoughts on this? Also, I would like to do the install myself, and am confident I could do it with stargazer but if I have to cut a hole in the bottom of boat I get nervous I am working outside of my expertise. Is there a way to adjust the stargazer to compensate for river current? Anyone else have experience using GPS systems on a river?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

DeVrieski
07-22-2011, 06:21 PM
I called a PP dealer today and asked them some questions about stargazer wake edition and 3 event. They said the only difference between 3 event and stargazer wakeboard edition was the ability to use the course magnets. Does this sound accurate? Also, they said that using it on the river was fine I just needed to adjust my speed according to the current or use in RPM mode. I used Stargazer wake addition this weekend and we couldn't get the RPM mode to work accurately, it would fluctuate between 32 and 38. Was this a result of it being an older version? If I spend $1200 I want to make sure tha tI am going to get a system that works for both river and lake. Any experience would with this would be greatly appreciated