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Double D
01-25-2011, 09:19 AM
Yep, I know its the wrong manufacturer for this site, but I don't own a Nautique. However, it will happen soon enough if its not already in the works at MasterCraft.

I am a die-hard V8 gasoline engine guy so I was quite surprised when I read it. But, with everything else, I guess its going to happen some day.

So, an Electric powered Ski Nautique E.

What do you think??

http://nautique.com/Blog/index/electric-nautique

Plave
01-25-2011, 09:20 AM
Fantastic news, I'll repost what I posted elsewhere;

Well I for one am totally stoked by this news, the move to electric propulsion is one that is inevitable and a move I think us over here in Europe are waiting for more than the US. I know I keep saying it but a lake fill for me is $10.00 a gallon.

As with any major innovation it takes one of the big boys to do it to really get it across to the public, Toyota are doing it with cars of course.

Double D
01-25-2011, 09:28 AM
Hope I dont get banned for this: Here is the video...:rolleyes:

http://nautique.com/videos/index/100-electric-nautique

Double D
01-25-2011, 09:33 AM
Fantastic news, I'll repost what I posted elsewhere;

Oops, my bad if this was posted elsewhere.... :confused:

Plave
01-25-2011, 09:39 AM
Oops, my bad if this was posted elsewhere.... :confused:

I meant elsewhere as on another forum

Plave
01-25-2011, 09:48 AM
Something we've just been talking about here, we read about issues fitting the new Ilmor into the 205/x2/x1 hull and therefore the possible end of the design this year.

This would be a fantastic way to prolong the life of a hull that surely isn't ready for retirement, an all electric Mastercraft the X1-E?

I can dream can't I?

aquaman
01-25-2011, 09:56 AM
May be a great alternative power source for special applications. I believe electric motors can generate significantly more torque. Also, rather than adding ballast, battery weight could have a similar effect on wake size and shape?

BUT, electrical cars and boats have been around in limited production for A long time without gaining popuar acceptance?

Plave
01-25-2011, 09:58 AM
It takes the big boys to start doing for the world to take notice.

Toyota are looking to sell 3,000,000 of their new leaf electric car over the next few years and don't be surprised to see them do it. The infrastructure is being improved, more charging stations are appearing and of course much more of the public are willing to accept them as viable.

FourFourty
01-25-2011, 10:03 AM
I think this is very interesting, however, not a cure from any environmental aspect. And judging by the power bills of people who own electric cars, its not going to save anyone any money either......

I am amused that environmentally friendly people think that the electricity that charges their electric vehicles is magically produced from thin air...... They dont ever realize that the power plants that produce the energy, burn coal and oil to do it(55%ish nationwide). Even though there is a CO2 advantage to electric cars, there is a Sulfer Dioxide disadvantage. Sulfer Dioxide=Acid Rain. Maybe if we could cut through the red tape of the trout and bird lovers, we could build more dams and windmill farms. More dams= more lakes:D.

off soap box now!

Plave
01-25-2011, 10:09 AM
My excitement is based on cost not so much the environment.

$10.00 a gallon on our lake, how many of you would be running your boats at $10.00 a gallon?

FourFourty
01-25-2011, 10:14 AM
My excitement is based on cost not so much the environment.

$10.00 a gallon on our lake, how many of you would be running your boats at $10.00 a gallon?


Problem with that is your boat will cost a lot more to begin with. I couldnt say how much for sure, but $10-$15k more wouldnt surprise me. I see your point though $10.00 per gallon is rediculous. I would be installing my own tank and pump at the lake.....

Nissan leaf is an econobox with an MSRP of over 30k!!

Plave
01-25-2011, 10:18 AM
Well yeah the "how much more will it cost to buy" question is the big unknown for us.

When you look at the costs of engine upgrades it may not be much more, if any. It's difficult as we're just guessing at the moment and my excitement may yet (and probably will) be dampened when the reality reaches the showrooms but I'm a hopeful kind of guy. :D

There's 30 ish boats where I am, mostly MC's and I face either hauling cans by hand down through the woods for fueling after paying $8.50 a gallon or driving up lake which is much easier but costs $10.00 a gallon.

My cabin sits lakeside and has electricity, you can see where my dream is going........

ksdaoski
01-25-2011, 10:31 AM
not to get overtly political, but at least its being derived domestically, rather than having to import-

I think this is very interesting, however, not a cure from any environmental aspect. And judging by the power bills of people who own electric cars, its not going to save anyone any money either......

I am amused that environmentally friendly people think that the electricity that charges their electric vehicles is magically produced from thin air...... They dont ever realize that the power plants that produce the energy, burn coal and oil to do it(55%ish nationwide). Even though there is a CO2 advantage to electric cars, there is a Sulfer Dioxide disadvantage. Sulfer Dioxide=Acid Rain. Maybe if we could cut through the red tape of the trout and bird lovers, we could build more dams and windmill farms. More dams= more lakes:D.

off soap box now!

Jim@BAWS
01-25-2011, 10:34 AM
Very interesting!!

My stereo in my boat runs on electricity!!!

Jim@BAWS

JimN
01-25-2011, 10:35 AM
Well yeah the "how much more will it cost to buy" question is the big unknown for us.

When you look at the costs of engine upgrades it may not be much more, if any. It's difficult as we're just guessing at the moment and my excitement may yet (and probably will) be dampened when the reality reaches the showrooms but I'm a hopeful kind of guy. :D

There's 30 ish boats where I am, mostly MC's and I face either hauling cans by hand down through the woods for fueling after paying $8.50 a gallon or driving up lake which is much easier but costs $10.00 a gallon.

My cabin sits lakeside and has electricity, you can see where my dream is going........

Why not change to CNG or LP gas? Some others from the UK have shown what is needed on this forum.

willyt
01-25-2011, 10:36 AM
It takes the big boys to start doing for the world to take notice.

Toyota are looking to sell 3,000,000 of their new leaf electric car over the next few years and don't be surprised to see them do it. The infrastructure is being improved, more charging stations are appearing and of course much more of the public are willing to accept them as viable.

Plave, the leaf is actually made by nissan.

The huge drawback to the leaf is it doesnt have a secondary method of propulsion. Enter the chevy volt... while this isnt about cars, I can see the Volt's technology (having an internal combustion backup generator) being applied very successfully to boats to eliminate "range anxiety." Take the 100% E Nautique to any of the big lakes in the US, table rock, bull shoals, cumberland, meade, powell, and you're SOL.


I am amused that environmentally friendly people think that the electricity that charges their electric vehicles is magically produced from thin air...... They dont ever realize that the power plants that produce the energy, burn coal and oil to do it(55%ish nationwide).

while i totally agree that we need to look more to alternative/clean energy to power our gagets, getting power from the grid is far more efficient than carrying around our own internal combustion engines (as our main source of power, anyway). I ride on the ohio river alot, and there are many marinas/docks. it would be really cool to pull up to one, plug the boat in, eat some lunch, unplug and go ride again. I can see this technology being applied to wakeboard boats more than ski boats, just because of the weight of the backup generator and battery packs. This is a very interesting development... and i think electric drivetrains will be here to stay (although i will miss the rumble of my MCX on holeshot...)

Plave
01-25-2011, 10:37 AM
It's not easily accesable where I am or I would have done by now

EDIT - Nissan/Toyota I always mix up!

FourFourty
01-25-2011, 10:37 AM
not to get overtly political, but at least its being derived domestically, rather than having to import-

Very good point! That is a big plus.

I still want more dams though :cool:

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 10:46 AM
Whether it ever comes to pass as a production model and any other downside mentioned already, I've got to say that it's pretty cool that they have this working on the water. Not to mention, there are going to be a lot of die hard CC guys who are going to take note that it is on a 196 platform.

Plave
01-25-2011, 10:47 AM
there are going to be a lot of die hard CC guys who are going to take note that it is on a 196 platform.

It was already noted on PN :D ;

Some of us got our wish - the 196 is back, only now it's $100k+ :-)

ksdaoski
01-25-2011, 10:49 AM
its not listed, but should have great torque, starting at 0 RPM's! 3-4 sets is weak. But have to start somewhere-

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 10:51 AM
It was already noted on PN :D ;

Probably the future for that hull. Much lower drag to overcome than the 200.

CantRepeat
01-25-2011, 11:06 AM
4 sets and then 4.5 hour down time. It doesn't seem any where near read for market.

Oh, and she was late to 1 ball.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 11:09 AM
4 sets and then 4.5 hour down time. It doesn't seem any where near read for market.

Oh, and she was late to 1 ball.

It's a concept vehicle for sure. I don't know about you, but we can get a lot more sets than 4 in a 4.5 hour running period. Even assuming it was only 4 sets, after 2--4 sets in the course, I need a lot more than 4.5 hours of down time. :o

aquaman
01-25-2011, 11:14 AM
I think this is very interesting, however, not a cure from any environmental aspect. And judging by the power bills of people who own electric cars, its not going to save anyone any money either......

I am amused that environmentally friendly people think that the electricity that charges their electric vehicles is magically produced from thin air...... They dont ever realize that the power plants that produce the energy, burn coal and oil to do it(55%ish nationwide). Even though there is a CO2 advantage to electric cars, there is a Sulfer Dioxide disadvantage. Sulfer Dioxide=Acid Rain. Maybe if we could cut through the red tape of the trout and bird lovers, we could build more dams and windmill farms. More dams= more lakes:D.

off soap box now!

you are correct, when the electricity is generated from fossil fuel........

but remember, Nuclear Energy is pretty close to "magical" as far as by products and efficiency. more nuclear power plants would make all electrical vehicles more promising.

CantRepeat
01-25-2011, 11:19 AM
It's a concept vehicle for sure. I don't know about you, but we can get a lot more sets than 4 in a 4.5 hour running period. Even assuming it was only 4 sets, after 2--4 sets in the course, I need a lot more than 4.5 hours of down time. :o

I think the video says it has enough power on a single charge to run 3 or 4 sets. Battery technology has always been the weak point when it comes to electric cars, and now boats. I'm sure there will be advancement in motors but without a different type of storage device I can't see main stream production happening.

Just think what would be possible if they found a way to make 8 hour run times on a single charge!

FourFourty
01-25-2011, 11:19 AM
you are correct, when the electricity is generated from fossil fuel........

but remember, Nuclear Energy is pretty close to "magical" as far as by products and efficiency. more nuclear power plants would make all electrical vehicles more promising.

I agree.....I think it would be hard to get approval for them i think. People are too scared of a Chernobyl type incident.

aquaman
01-25-2011, 11:28 AM
a little off topic......but there are some electrical power-plant cooling reservoirs that sure look inviting as a year round temprature controlled ski-lake! : )

MakeMineaS&S
01-25-2011, 11:34 AM
Schnitz posted his thoughts on this a couple of years ago, however, since he's hardcore course skier, he analyzes it from a course skier perspective, IE, your average slalom set is X seconds, a charge under load would give you Y total run time, so you could ski Z amount of sets on a charge, then pull in charge, and ski Z more sets. Too limiting for the general population, IMHO, you like cruising or free-skiing or boarding and don't spend every moment in the course.

http://www.schnitzskis.com/neatstuff/electricskiboat.html

IS THERE AN ELECTRIC SKI BOAT IN YOUR FUTURE? 9/20/2008

Right now, we have the technology and the actual parts to put together an electric powered ski boat. Tesla Motors currently sells an electric powered sports car powered by a 118 pound, 248 HP electric motor powered by Lithium Ion batteries. This car can go from 0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds (which is faster than almost every production car on the road) and will hit a top speed of 120 mph with a range of roughly 150 miles. A rechargeable battery weighing close to 1,000 pounds powers it. Add the battery and motor weight together and it’s almost identical to that of a conventional PCM 349 HP engine with a full tank of gas. If we increase the size of the motor by 25%, we’ll have 310 HP (at the output shaft of the motor from 0 through 8,500 rpm) and increased the motor weight by only 30 lbs.

The battery size can remain the same as the motor can run at close to 25% efficiency, as it’s capable of spinning a constant 14,000-rpm. Ski boats typically run at 3,500 RPM for 30 seconds, then idle for a minute and then repeat until the end of the set. At each end of the lake, this boat would use no energy at all as the motor can stop spinning entirely. There’s no need to idle. These factors will allow the boat to run for hours in between charges just like the Tesla roadster. Docks in the future will have quick chargers where you will plug in your boat in between sets and/or overnight.

Utilizing this current technology, we could put one of these motors and battery packs in a boat, replacing the gasoline engine and still have all the performance we have grown accustomed to but without burning any petroleum based products period! No exhaust fumes at the transom. No noise complaints from the neighbors. Ski boats might then be allowed on lakes, rivers and places where they have never been before.

In the end, we have a fully powered ski boat that is noiseless, pollution free and will operate all day for pennies. One of the drawbacks is that our current technology limits the battery pack life to only last 3 to 5 years. If the battery pack costs $10,000.00, then the cost per year for the batteries is $3,333.00 per year ($64.00 per week) for a 3 year replacement and $2,000.00 per year ($38.46 per week) for 5 years. Right now, with gasoline at $3.79 a gallon, we can ski about 16 short sets on this amount. For anyone skiing 20 sets per week, the savings should the equivalent of about 4 gallons of gas per week plus all of the associated oil and filter changes that go along with this wear and tear. This equates to $15.16 (4 gallons of gas per week x 52 equals $788.32 per year plus 5 oil and filter changes with Mobil 1 equals another $150.00 for a grand total of $938.32 in savings per year not including the cost of the electricity to recharge the batteries which is ridiculously low and not including any labor for the oil and filter changes. Add to this all of the positive economic factors (like keeping our money circulating within our own economy rather than sending it offshore) and the environmentally friendly facets which can reduce emissions to zero through the purchase of green energy credits and you are looking at the future right NOW.

It’s up to each and every one of us to help clean up this beautiful planet we call home. Its up to us to make sure the thoughts and words become things. In doing so, we will all be doing our part, contributing to a more beautiful, peaceful and cooperative world.

Sincerely,

Schnitz!


Notes;

PCM Engine weight = 950 lbs

HP 343

Torque 430 at 5,000 RPM through 1.23 to 1 transmission

Gasoline weight = 25 gallons x 6.216 = 155.40 lbs

Total weight for both = 1,105.40

Add the weight of the gas tank also.

HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252

Weight of Tesla motor = 118 lbs

Weight of fuel (batteries) =

HP 248

Torque 276 at 0 thru 4,500 RPM x 1.23 trans = 339.48

Right now, the Tesla battery pack weighs about 975 lbs. Add to this a 150 lb motor and the net weight is 1,125 lbs. The gasoline-powered boat on the other hand carries a 950 lb engine and 155 lbs of fuel for a net total of 1,105 pounds, a 20-pound difference or basically no difference

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 11:41 AM
I think the video says it has enough power on a single charge to run 3 or 4 sets. Battery technology has always been the weak point when it comes to electric cars, and now boats. I'm sure there will be advancement in motors but without a different type of storage device I can't see main stream production happening.

Just think what would be possible if they found a way to make 8 hour run times on a single charge!

My mistake. I read that about a year ago they were only getting 1--2 sets in an older hull using lead acid batteries. A year later, using Lithium Ion batteries, they are getting double that. It's progress.

This boat is definitely for a private lake course skier setup. Probably not ready and too expensive for prime time. But cool.

Also, it looks like they have the battery packs spread out along the floor underneath the gunwhales on either side.

LaRue
01-25-2011, 11:46 AM
wondering if they would install a sound chip that would allow the beautiful rumbling sound of a running inboard to be heard. :D

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 11:50 AM
wondering if they would install a sound chip that would allow the beautiful rumbling sound of a running inboard to be heard. :D

Figure that is an easy option. Your engine would always sound great. ;)

Jim@BAWS
01-25-2011, 12:08 PM
wondering if they would install a sound chip that would allow the beautiful rumbling sound of a running inboard to be heard. :D

It comes stardard with a CD to put in your stereo that runs on electricity

Or you could load up a sound on your Ipod and play that

This is all pretty cool...BUCK ROGERS type stuff

Jim@BAWS

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 12:13 PM
It comes stardard with a CD to put in your stereo that runs on electricity

Or you could load up a sound on your Ipod and play that

This is all pretty cool...BUCK ROGERS type stuff

Jim@BAWS

If it were me, I'd have a separate deep cycle up front for the stereo. :)

Jim, you may need to explain to some of these younger, wakeboarding types (I kid) who Buck Rogers is. ;)

aquaman
01-25-2011, 12:22 PM
Your boat could have a V-10 rumble, turbine (s) or rocket powered sound. LOL

ski_king
01-25-2011, 12:25 PM
Boesch Boats in Switzerland has been building electric inboards now for a few years.

http://www.boesch-boats.ch/boats/electric-power

CantRepeat
01-25-2011, 12:29 PM
If it were me, I'd have a separate deep cycle up front for the stereo. :)

Jim, you may need to explain to some of these younger, wakeboarding types (I kid) who Buck Rogers is. ;)

They may get to meet him since Buck lives in the 25st century! :D

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 12:31 PM
They may get to meet him since Buck lives in the 25st century! :D

In that case, they'll meet Duck Dodgers first. Just sayin'. ;)

atlfootr
01-25-2011, 12:35 PM
Cool concept, enviro friendly ... there's a dealer guy on the lake who'll probably have one soon.
Can you imagine pulling it to the lake with one of these? :D

It's called a Wheego Whip and also runs on electricity, here's a VIDEO of it in action
Wheego Street Footage (http://vimeo.com/16566961) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/).

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 01:09 PM
Right now, it is certainly not for everyone. But like fiberglass ski boat hulls, composite stringers, electronic fuel injection, towers for wakeboarding, Diesel engine power, etc. all electric propulsion it is another effort to move the industry forward with innovation, which is a good thing.

vision
01-25-2011, 01:14 PM
I like it. Now give me a small 4 cylinder gas generator so that I can have enough electric power on demand to go 15 mph and get home, or let it run while we are docked to charge the batteries if shore power is not available. Sure, this defeats some of the environmental friendliness, but you could still being using power from the grid most of the time and not have the concern of being stranded. As previously noted, this is the advantage of the Chevy Volt over the Nissan Leaf.

Archimedes
01-25-2011, 01:29 PM
Given all the unsupported hype about other forms of EVs, I'll believe this when I see it. I'd really like to see an independent test of both the range of the battery pack involved and it's durability over time in a watersports environment. If it were a truly viable alternative, I'd have no problem going electric (if I ever bought another boat...), but I wouldn't switch just for the 'green' effect, which in reality isn't all that green and everyone knows it.

The other huge hurdle that always sounds easy on paper but is huge in reality are putting enough charging stations on a lake (safely) to support this technology. That would be very, very difficult and very expensive to do on the lakes we frequent out here.

aquaman
01-25-2011, 01:41 PM
Charging stations might not be so important. With advancing battery technology and solar panels, you might be able to charge as you ski. The bimini and fore-deck could contain sloar panel material? Solar panels have long been reliable on sailboats for constant charging.

Efficient batteries and solar charging could really change the discussion of electric boats.

1redTA
01-25-2011, 01:46 PM
I've been weighing this
PROS
100% torque at 0 rpm
I can hear the stereo over the engine/motor
batteries = ballast
Cons
I can hear my wife over the engine/stereo
no V8 wet exhaust sounding from the boat
short life and cost of battery packs

All kidding aside, the charge time is probably using 110V, 220v could knock charge time in half and is cheaper. Although, somebody would have a retractable power cord mounted to their boat for extended skiing time.

The diesel electric drive is a proven system. Look at trains and submarines they have been employing this tech for a long time, till the nuclear switch.

The power grids can't support energy at peak demand in some areas already. The US already uses nuclear energy to produce 20% of the energy w/104 plants at the current time.

It would make sense to me, to put a nuclear power plant buried in the center of major cities. The heat by-products produced could power many geothermal type systems, ie HVAC units.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 01:49 PM
As mentioned, it's not terribly green if we're producing electricity from burning coal. But we are getting the coal and/or nuclear fuel here as opposed to importing the bulk of the oil we consume. Shifting the fuel reliance to our shores is for the better.

Again, it's a concept vehicle only at this stage. It will be years before you start to see this sort of thing on the local lakes.

kkkeating
01-25-2011, 03:17 PM
Bottom line on these ideas is if they were cost effective and convenient, everyone would have one. I'd hate to start taking on water with 1000 to 1500 pounds of lead in a boat. It one looks at Popular Mechinics magazines over the past 25 years, theres a lot of ideals that look great but very few actually become commercially viable.

jason95gt
01-25-2011, 03:30 PM
Epic already has an electric boat at a cost of $150k. That is about $80k more than the standard boat. The main problem I have with these electric cars and boats is you still have to charge them and how is the power made for electricity? Typically oil or coal. Electricity isn't free or environmentally free either.

ski_king
01-25-2011, 03:37 PM
I keep thinking how electricity and water do not mix well......

JLeuck64
01-25-2011, 03:47 PM
Very interesting!!

My stereo in my boat runs on electricity!!!

Jim@BAWS

LMAO Jim!

(you crack me up! But technically the gasoline is converted to electricity to run your stereo there buddy...)

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 03:50 PM
I'd hate to start taking on water with 1000 to 1500 pounds of lead in a boat.

I'm not sure I understand this part. Where is there lead in the boat?

aquaman
01-25-2011, 04:50 PM
I keep thinking how electricity and water do not mix well......

well, neither do oil + water for that matter. just sayin.

Archimedes
01-25-2011, 04:54 PM
As mentioned, it's not terribly green if we're producing electricity from burning coal. But we are getting the coal and/or nuclear fuel here as opposed to importing the bulk of the oil we consume. Shifting the fuel reliance to our shores is for the better.


But since the electricity use is so low, that's not what's being replaced, because economically the shift in resource allocation is effectively from gasoline to the batteries themselves, so the real issue is where is the money for the batteries going? Since 75 percent of the cost of batteries is in the materials, it's going to the companies mining the ore and the rest is going to the companies manufacturing the batteries. Aren't most of the lithium deposits outside the U.S. and aren't the biggest, most advanced battery manufacturers in the Far East?

If I redistribute the $15k I'd spend on future gas consumption to $15k in battery packs, isn't most of that money leaving the country anyway, just going to a different place? And, regarding the lithium mining that occurs in the U.S., isn't mining that stuff incredibly environmentally unfriendly due to the manner in which its extracted?

I'm all for EVs but the green machine glosses over huge disadvantages as if they were minor annoyances, and the super efficient battery that represents a real alternative to the IC motor is still just a pipe dream. We have miles to go and our progress each year can be measured in feet. I'm all for the investment, just tired of all the hype surrounding EVs.

Archimedes
01-25-2011, 04:56 PM
well, neither do oil + water for that matter. just sayin.

but oil in the water can't kill you...

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 05:14 PM
But since the electricity use is so low, that's not what's being replaced, because economically the shift in resource allocation is effectively from gasoline to the batteries themselves, so the real issue is where is the money for the batteries going? Since 75 percent of the cost of batteries is in the materials, it's going to the companies mining the ore and the rest is going to the companies manufacturing the batteries. Aren't most of the lithium deposits outside the U.S. and aren't the biggest, most advanced battery manufacturers in the Far East?

If I redistribute the $15k I'd spend on future gas consumption to $15k in battery packs, isn't most of that money leaving the country anyway, just going to a different place? And, regarding the lithium mining that occurs in the U.S., isn't mining that stuff incredibly environmentally unfriendly due to the manner in which its extracted?

I'm all for EVs but the green machine glosses over huge disadvantages as if they were minor annoyances, and the super efficient battery that represents a real alternative to the IC motor is still just a pipe dream. We have miles to go and our progress each year can be measured in feet. I'm all for the investment, just tired of all the hype surrounding EVs.

I'm guessing you know the answers to those questions. I will plead ignorance concerning the various source materials. But I'm willing to bet that that Chevy power plant does not have 100% US components either. Then again, I drive a Honda and have enough products in my house that originate or have components originating from the Far East to build my own landfill.

Okay, so for all my positive thoughts about this boat, simply for the manufacturer seeking to engage in this innovative exercise, I have some concerns.

Lithium Ion batteries are extremely sensitive to high temperatures. Heat causes lithium-ion battery packs to degrade much faster than they normally would. So, best case scenario, we might get 3--5 years out of the battery pack. What does that translate to in Texas heat.

If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined. Kind of like the fuel pump issues that we have seen on this forum, but with a more expensive consequence.

There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flames. Fire is not a good thing last time I checked.

Don't get me wrong. So often, the boat industry is ten years behind the automobile industry. In this case, it's only like 3 or 4 years delayed. I like seeing that the boat companies are testing new things and not just churning out the same stuff year after year or putting out the same old product with an ipod dock on it.

Kyle
01-25-2011, 05:26 PM
This is so stupid. Almost as stupid as electric weed wackers and lawn mowers. The tree huggers are out again. You get about 4 to 6 sets before having the 4 to 5 hours to charge. That is less than an 1 hour of ski time before you cant ski any more.

Then you got to watch how much you use your stereo or any other electric components. Guess loud music and Led lighting are out with this thing. If not you might get 1 or 2 sets.

What is also stupid is the price will be much higher than the gasoline version. Its dumb dumb dumb.

I will stick to real v8 power that runs on gasoline. This looks like it would work well on a private ski lake, where you do not allow guests or any friends out. Total waste of time and money. Liberals who are concerned in global warming crap must have had a dream to come up with this. Oh yeah and make sure you watch the state of the union address tonight.

ski_king
01-25-2011, 05:28 PM
Problem solved..................and you get riid of your garbage at the same time.
http://www.bttfstuff.com/img/DSC02804.JPG

thatsmrmastercraft
01-25-2011, 05:33 PM
Very interesting!!

My stereo in my boat runs on electricity!!!

Jim@BAWS

This is so stupid. Almost as stupid as electric weed wackers and lawn mowers. The tree huggers are out again. You get about 4 to 6 sets before having the 4 to 5 hours to charge. That is less than an 1 hour of ski time before you cant ski any more.

Then you got to watch how much you use your stereo or any other electric components. Guess loud music and Led lighting are out with this thing. If not you might get 1 or 2 sets.

What is also stupid is the price will be much higher than the gasoline version. Its dumb dumb dumb.

I will stick to real v8 power that runs on gasoline. This looks like it would work well on a private ski lake, where you do not allow guests or any friends out. Total waste of time and money. Liberals who are concerned in global warming crap must have had a dream to come up with this. Oh yeah and make sure you watch the state of the union address tonight.

Think how long your boat would last if you could only put an hour on it each evening you took it out, and maybe two hours on a weekend. But then again, if all the boats were charging there should be some good water. :rolleyes:

Splash
01-25-2011, 05:35 PM
But where does the alternator go on these motors?

I hope, some day it becomes real. Over here in Spain (EU) we have plenty of beautiful lakes with "gas motor ban" due to ecological reasons. I live 10 minutes away from one. I'd really pay some extra on boat purchase and accept a 4 hours charging for 2 hours ride, just to ride "at home".

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 05:36 PM
This is so stupid. Almost as stupid as electric weed wackers and lawn mowers. The tree huggers are out again.

I'll take issue with this.

1. I'm not a tree hugger.
2. For whatever reason (I can't recall - probably because it was cheaper than the gas powered option), I owned an electric lawn mower for nearly 10 years. I abused that thing to no end, ran over large limbs, etc., and it was absolutely maintenance free, unlike my gas powered motor and riding lawn tractor. The cord was a PIA and that was the only downside. But this thing did anything and everything needed of it in a pretty good sized yard. I got rid of it thinking that my riding mower was doing all the work and I didn't have the space. When my riding mower developed a few issues, I regretted getting rid of the electric.

3. I still have an electric weed whacker and it is going on 13 years with zero maintenance and works like a top. I would buy another. My weeds and St. Augustine don't know the difference. The leaf blower is electric, too. 13 years old. Maintenance free.

There's a lot to be said for never having to change oil or make trips to the gas station, change spark plugs, air filters; the list goes on.

In my experience, it has been the polar opposite of stupid. Little in this world is so maintenance free.

Archimedes
01-25-2011, 05:43 PM
Agreed ETS, but it's stupid because the technology is not there to be a viable alternative in this environment. This boat is an interesting little design exercise and nothing more. Unless and until there is a huge leap in materials science or the laws of physics bend, EVs will be nothing more than a niche novelty.

The green machine wants everyone to believe that we're almost there with battery technology and that EVs will solve all that ails us and make all our kids above average, but it's a pipe dream.

dstone124
01-25-2011, 05:50 PM
Fifty some odd posts in its first day here on the forum, I'd say it has sparked some interest at the very least. For everyone focusing in on how this concept is all about the liberally hippie deuchebags tree hugging aggenda, I'm sure the Wright brothers were met with the same disdane. Now, I'm not comparing an electric boat to the invention of flight, but at least it's an attempt at a viable prospect to combat the supposed $5/gallon we're looking down the mouth of this summer.
The fact the CC is working towards the next advancement of propulsion for the sake of all water enthusiasts should be applauded. For all you smart guys out there with the critical eye of the current efforts, lets hear about your better mouse trap!?!
For me, I'd like to see the thing run on a hydrogen fuel cell much like RV's should be powered by methane gas (think cousin Eddie- ch!tters full Clark!)
I anxious to hear more and it looks like I'm not alone.
Good luck!

willyt
01-25-2011, 05:53 PM
I'll take issue with this.

1. I'm not a tree hugger.


Agreed. I'm not a tree hugger either - Just like everyone else here I drive a huge V8 Truck. Like east tx said the advantages of an electric boat are too many to ignore. the technology has to overcome some pretty important limitations, just like everything else has had to do in the past. However, imagine having 100% of your torque available at 0 rpms... that would be amazing.

Why not combine the ecoboost and electric technologies in a volt kinda way... 3.7 twin turbo'ed generator on a boat with an electric drivetrain. I'll take that in my 24 ft star please thank you

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 05:55 PM
This boat is an interesting little design exercise and nothing more.

This is what I like about it. I'm not a shareholder in this company. So I don't really care if they don't recoup their money on this. I think it's interesting that they have a working prototype. I also agree about the "greeness" of this boat. I like alternative energy for other reasons, primarily as a way for this country neutralize the political influence of other nations over us based on the fact that we are dependent on them for energy resources. The fight against alternative resources has always bewildered me for this reason.

That's not saying it wouldn't be nice if it were good for the environment. If it can be and the performance is similar, so much the better IMO.

I posed this question on another forum. But since there is no regenerative braking like on the hybrid cars, what about a channel for some sort of hydropowered charging from the flow of water while the boat is underway? Not my area of expertise. One of you smart guys get on it.

Kyle
01-25-2011, 05:55 PM
I'll take issue with this.

I have had many electric weed wackers and yard brooms. There is a reason they have all made it to the trash.

They are all an inconvenience.

I would choose to replace oil, spark plugs, gas, and internal wearing parts than drag an extension cord around. Then have to roll it back up. Then un-tangle it. Then drag it across the yard and get to the end of the cord and unplug it from the wall. Walk back to the wall plug to plug it back in.

Run the mower in thick grass trip the breaker. Walk back to wall outlet and reset the wall outlet and walk back out to your mower and try it again. Walk back to the wall plug and un plug and plug back in and walk back out to your mower and try it again, walk back to the garage and switch the breaker box off and back on, then walk back out to your mower and try it again. By now you shold get my point.

A battery powered boat just will quit running and then your funs over for 4 or 5 hours. A gas boat will get low and you drive back to a gas dock and continue to have fun for 30 or more gallons worth.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 05:59 PM
Fifty some odd posts in its first day here on the forum, I'd say it has sparked some interest at the very least. For everyone focusing in on how this concept is all about the liberally hippie deuchebags tree hugging aggenda, I'm sure the Wright brothers were met with the same disdane. Now, I'm not comparing an electric boat to the invention of flight, but at least it's an attempt at a viable prospect to combat the supposed $5/gallon we're looking down the mouth of this summer.
The fact the CC is working towards the next advancement of propulsion for the sake of all water enthusiasts should be applauded. For all you smart guys out there with the critical eye of the current efforts, lets hear about your better mouse trap!?!
For me, I'd like to see the thing run on a hydrogen fuel cell much like RV's should be powered by methane gas (think cousin Eddie- ch!tters full Clark!)
I anxious to hear more and it looks like I'm not alone.
Good luck!

I'm thinking there were a lot of skeptics when Leo started running that all fiberglass hull.

Winterization would be a lot shorter process.

The exploding battery possibility, even if remote, still gives me pause. At least there wouldn't be any fuel vapor to ignite. Maybe that's why they didn't go hybrid.

scott023
01-25-2011, 06:03 PM
I'll take issue with this.

1. I'm not a tree hugger.
2. For whatever reason (I can't recall - probably because it was cheaper than the gas powered option), I owned an electric lawn mower for nearly 10 years. I abused that thing to no end, ran over large limbs, etc., and it was absolutely maintenance free, unlike my gas powered motor and riding lawn tractor. The cord was a PIA and that was the only downside. But this thing did anything and everything needed of it in a pretty good sized yard. I got rid of it thinking that my riding mower was doing all the work and I didn't have the space. When my riding mower developed a few issues, I regretted getting rid of the electric.

3. I still have an electric weed whacker and it is going on 13 years with zero maintenance and works like a top. I would buy another. My weeds and St. Augustine don't know the difference. The leaf blower is electric, too. 13 years old. Maintenance free.

There's a lot to be said for never having to change oil or make trips to the gas station, change spark plugs, air filters; the list goes on.

In my experience, it has been the polar opposite of stupid. Little in this world is so maintenance free.

AS usual, well stated Doug.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 06:04 PM
I have had many electric weed wackers and yard brooms. There is a reason they have all made it to the trash.

They are all an inconvenience.

I would choose to replace oil, spark plugs, gas, and internal wearing parts than drag an extension cord around. Then have to roll it back up. Then un-tangle it. Then drag it across the yard and get to the end of the cord and unplug it from the wall. Walk back to the wall plug to plug it back in.

Run the mower in thick grass trip the breaker. Walk back to wall outlet and reset the wall outlet and walk back out to your mower and try it again. Walk back to the wall plug and un plug and plug back in and walk back out to your mower and try it again, walk back to the garage and switch the breaker box off and back on, then walk back out to your mower and try it again. By now you shold get my point.


I think I get your point. You need an electrician and one of those things that rolls up the extension cord. 8p

Never tripped a breaker with one of these things in all the years I have used them. I'm lazy. So running it in thick grass was par for the course. I did run over the cord once and had to go grab another one out of the garage. That was sort of a pain. Live and learn. I guess if I had your experience with them, I'd be less enthusiastic. The only reason I got the riding mower is for bagging leaves on the fly (we have a ton of leaves in the winter). But for me, these things just worked well for less money where my gas mowers cost more developed issues that had to be ironed out. I'll stick with my "not stupid" and add "not inconvenient" to it.

And here's the thing that makes this opinion bullet proof.

Don't copy it.

I did it first. ;)

YMMV

I know it's not the same as the ski boat. But I was only going after your electric lawn equipment tirade.

Still think this boat is nifty as can be and know I won't be able to afford to trade my awesome gas powered boat in on it even if I were so inclined. But since I have the same hull, retrofit is always an option!!! ;)

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 06:09 PM
A battery powered boat just will quit running and then your funs over for 4 or 5 hours. A gas boat will get low and you drive back to a gas dock and continue to have fun for 30 or more gallons worth.

Unless it gets too low once and you fry the fuel pump.

:D

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 06:11 PM
Oh, and didn't MC do this years ago?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SYQGZX25L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

/stole this joke.

Kyle
01-25-2011, 06:25 PM
LOL LOL LOL Eastie

My tirade is justified. Have you ever seen a comercial yard crew or any lawn service use electric equipment? I have NOT
These guys mow 10 or more yards a day and there is a reson they use gas powered equipment and if the owners of these companies could save money by using electric and still produce the same quality of work they would.

The concept of the boat is fine, just not practical. Torque would be a monster but for less than an hour. Then you go back to dragging extension cords around and winding them back up.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 06:28 PM
LOL LOL LOL Eastie

My tirade is justified. Have you ever seen a comercial yard crew or any lawn service use electric equipment? I have NOT
These guys mow 10 or more yards a day and there is a reson they use gas powered equipment and if the owners of these companies could save money by using electric and still produce the same quality of work they would.

The concept of the boat is fine, just not practical. Torque would be a monster but for less than an hour. Then you go back to dragging extension cords around and winding them back up.


Every commercial yard crew I have ever seen for the last 20 or so years has used only electrically powered equipment. I concede nothing.

Seriously, my last two gas mowers have been cr@p compared to the jewel of an electric I owned.

Did I mention that I got an electric chain saw one year for Christmas? I'm not taking down oak trees with it, but will tear up large fallen branches like butter. Still have to oil the chain. What a pain. ;)

Kyle
01-25-2011, 06:31 PM
You need an electrician and one of those things that rolls up the extension cord. 8p

:D:D:D So far from the truth...

No I am ADHD and have no time for nonsense.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 06:34 PM
:D:D:D ... no time for nonsense.

Yet you continue to respond to my posts. 8p

1redTA
01-25-2011, 06:36 PM
I posed this question on another forum. But since there is no regenerative braking like on the hybrid cars, what about a channel for some sort of hydropowered charging from the flow of water while the boat is underway? Not my area of expertise. One of you smart guys get on it.

that wouldn't be a perpetual motion machine would it?:)

I think the idea would be better with a diesel hybrid for a full day of boating

FourFourty
01-25-2011, 06:40 PM
But I'm willing to bet that that Chevy power plant does not have 100% US components either. Then again, I drive a Honda and have enough products in my house that originate or have components originating from the Far East to build my own landfill.

Dont beat yourself up over the Honda thing, East. After all, they do employ more Americans than GM. Last I knew, they actually sourced more materials stateside for their vehicles as well...... Sad

Jeff Lyman
01-25-2011, 06:42 PM
Wow! Great Idea surly MC is probably testing one already. Half of the comp ski boats I use and know of with friends 1 charge would be fine. I know of some boats that seem to never be without a skier behind them and some never a skier. My company repaires Hybrids and Electric vehicles this technoligy is flying forward. Electric boats will be like the cars. Some situations they work and some they don't, period.

In Syracuse NY there are 20 or 30 electric car charging stations going in soon. They will be at popular destinations like malls ect. You will be able to track the locations of them with your phone a schedule a charge time which is usally only 15 to 30 minutes for a "quicky".

I liked the grafics!!!!

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 06:46 PM
Dont beat yourself up over the Honda thing, East. After all, they do employ more Americans than GM. Last I knew, they actually sourced more materials stateside for their vehicles as well...... Sad

Plus, I bought it used. More money to the local dealer. With over 170k miles on it, the darned thing is almost as reliable as my electric mower was.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 06:48 PM
that wouldn't be a perpetual motion machine would it?:)


Only in a vacuum. ;)

Just trying to add a little to the battery life. Have the channel collect water off the spray pocket so as not to add to the drag.

/obviously not an electrohydrodynamicist

Kyle
01-25-2011, 06:50 PM
Every commercial yard crew I have ever seen for the last 20 or so years has used only electrically powered equipment. I concede nothing.

Seriously, my last two gas mowers have been cr@p compared to the jewel of an electric I owned.

Did I mention that I got an electric chain saw one year for Christmas? I'm not taking down oak trees with it, but will tear up large fallen branches like butter. Still have to oil the chain. What a pain. ;)

You are so correct. The lawn crew uses a GAS powered generator that runs 2 mowers, 2 weed wackers, and a yard broom. They change oil and plugs, and re fuel one piece of equipment rather then 5+ pieces. Yet they have lots of extension cords.

Yet you continue to respond to my posts. 8p

You see I am really bored and am finding some sick humor in this.8p

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 06:56 PM
You are so correct. The lawn crew uses a GAS powered generator that runs 2 mowers, 2 weed wackers, and a yard broom. They change oil and plugs, and re fuel one piece of equipment rather then 5+ pieces. Yet they have lots of extension cords.




All of this equipment is charged with solar solar panels including the fans built in to the pith hats the dudes wear while they push the mowers.

vision
01-25-2011, 07:36 PM
I wonder how many electric/hybrid ski boats Epic has sold so far?

Double D
01-25-2011, 07:46 PM
Lets see; 80 posts in 10 hours. I like it! :)

Archimedes
01-25-2011, 08:02 PM
This is what I like about it. I'm not a shareholder in this company. So I don't really care if they don't recoup their money on this. I think it's interesting that they have a working prototype. I also agree about the "greeness" of this boat. I like alternative energy for other reasons, primarily as a way for this country neutralize the political influence of other nations over us based on the fact that we are dependent on them for energy resources.

Are we on good terms with Bolivia, Chile and China? Because that's where most of the lithium deposits are...

bobx1
01-25-2011, 08:03 PM
Please give me a resonably priced diesel before we start talking about electricity. Still dont know why we cant have a very efficient motor that runs on cooking oil from McDonalds without breaking the bank.....

jakethebt
01-25-2011, 08:09 PM
An electric ski boat is the perfect answer to the question nobody asked.

As someone said, electricity and water are not a good mix and this little experiment has your family on board. Additionally, if you keep your boat on the water, are you going to have a 240V high amp recharging station on your dock? Let’s not drop the boat plug in the water standing on the dock... whoops!

Maybe there is a reason MC has not done this yet. Maybe they thought through it and realized it is a big investment in a hard economic time and they would be better off developing really cool boats they can sell?

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 08:17 PM
Are we on good terms with Bolivia, Chile and China? Because that's where most of the lithium deposits are...

If not, then we need to work on something we don't rely on them for that can be easily resourced with a quick turn around. That, or we could get a good slant drilling operation going from friendly soils. :)

Or ... cold fusion. But, ETS, don't the Eskimos own the cold? Are we on good terms with them?


Jeez, the questions ... :D

Yellow X9
01-25-2011, 08:21 PM
Nice.....I'll stick to $10 a gallon fill ups, atleast I can go for 3/4 of the day and not have to find an electrical outlet to re-charge for 4.5 hrs

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 08:22 PM
An electric ski boat is the perfect answer to the question nobody asked.

As someone said, electricity and water are not a good mix and this little experiment has your family on board. Additionally, if you keep your boat on the water, are you going to have a 240V high amp recharging station on your dock? Let’s not drop the boat plug in the water standing on the dock... whoops!

Maybe there is a reason MC has not done this yet. Maybe they thought through it and realized it is a big investment in a hard economic time and they would be better off developing really cool boats they can sell?

To their credit, they floated the extremely expensive Diesel option that I have not seen anyone on this board own. Still, kudos to them for having the stones to put it into production back in 06 or whenever.

Whether everyone likes it or not, innovation drives the industry. CC put this out there. I'd love to see MC put something different out there that, like this, not a lot of has been seen to date...or a better electric version of what CC put out. Eventually, putting out different versions of the boats to which we have become accustomed won't bear fruit.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 08:24 PM
Please give me a resonably priced diesel before we start talking about electricity. Still dont know why we cant have a very efficient motor that runs on cooking oil from McDonalds without breaking the bank.....

I'd love to see the X-star Hamburglar edition wrap that went with that.

/robble robble

jakethebt
01-25-2011, 08:28 PM
Whether everyone likes it or not, innovation drives the industry.

Innovation drives universities... Sales dollars drive industry.

vision
01-25-2011, 08:34 PM
As someone said, electricity and water are not a good mix and this little experiment has your family on board. Additionally, if you keep your boat on the water, are you going to have a 240V high amp recharging station on your dock? Let’s not drop the boat plug in the water standing on the dock... whoops!

Fortunately, 120V and 240V electrical power has been std at most saltwater recreational boat slips, and used quite safely, for decades.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 09:04 PM
Innovation drives universities... Sales dollars drive industry.

Isn't that the motto for the University of Phoenix?

That aside, they aren't going to sell the same boats 10 years from now that they sell today (even though the 196 and 197 had a ridiculously long product cycle). Nobody builds one model in the boating industry and calls it good for all time. Change, grow (if you're really good, do both) or die.

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 09:05 PM
Fortunately, 120V and 240V electrical power has been std at most saltwater recreational boat slips, and used quite safely, for decades.

Throw a GFCI on there and call it good 8p

Should those guys with all those batteries for their stereos be worried?

DooSPX
01-25-2011, 09:09 PM
I agree about not being better for the environment, what I heard from a buddy who works at a power company, he told me that the plants use more oil and or coal in one hour than an entire city of full of cars/trucks.
On that note, I love the sound of a v8 and always well. I will also never own a elect. car/boat. I think the route they should go is hybrid technology. But, I think they should use better battery technology to lighten the weight.
IMO, hybrid can switch to elect. while make a pass or just cruising the lake.

kkkeating
01-25-2011, 09:33 PM
After 4 or 5 sets the boat would perfect for tubers!

jakethebt
01-25-2011, 09:50 PM
That aside, they aren't going to sell the same boats 10 years from now that they sell today (even though the 196 and 197 had a ridiculously long product cycle). Nobody builds one model in the boating industry and calls it good for all time. Change, grow (if you're really good, do both) or die.

I agree with you on that. I just don't think that too many ski boats in 10 years will be electric. I think it is the answer to the question no one asked.

I guess there is one really good side to electric ski boats... the more electric vehicles we have the more power we need... the more power we need the better reason to build wonderful "green" hydro-electric plants and the huge reservoirs that come with them! It is a self-fulfilling prophecy! It is the “green” circle of life for ski boats!

east tx skier
01-25-2011, 09:59 PM
I agree with you on that. I just don't think that too many ski boats in 10 years will be electric. I think it is the answer to the question no one asked.

I guess there is one really good side to electric ski boats... the more electric vehicles we have the more power we need... the more power we need the better reason to build wonderful "green" hydro-electric plants and the huge reservoirs that come with them! It is a self-fulfilling prophecy! It is the “green” circle of life for ski boats!

THey are hitting the product cycle at the right point. The auto industry is pumping so much dough into ev that the batteries wil improve a ton over the next few years. While 4 sets is not great, 8 will be more attractive. I know nobody asked, but there are plenty of technological investments that we didnt ask for. I don't recall asking for compact affordable computers in the late 70s. It is not for everyone, but enough will jump. Europe at first. In time, this won't feel so strange. It's not ready for prime time here yet. But things may look different a few years from now.

JimN
01-25-2011, 10:11 PM
I agree about not being better for the environment, what I heard from a buddy who works at a power company, he told me that the plants use more oil and or coal in one hour than an entire city of full of cars/trucks.
On that note, I love the sound of a v8 and always well. I will also never own a elect. car/boat. I think the route they should go is hybrid technology. But, I think they should use better battery technology to lighten the weight.
IMO, hybrid can switch to elect. while make a pass or just cruising the lake.

Unfortunately, batteries are all about trade-offs. Do you want low weight, high current delivery, high current recharging or longevity/high number of recharge cycles? Can't have all of them.

It's not as if electric cars have only been made for a couple of decades. Some of the first cars ever were electric but because gasoline became cheaper to produce, the impetus to continue was lost until gas prices began to rise rapidly. Globe Union, now Johnson Controls, was working on battery powered cars in the early '60s. Detroit basically killed that and we have been behind the 8 ball ever since. Detroit killed themselves not long after.

André
01-26-2011, 08:11 AM
This project could easily been done in a MC as the "S" guy from LTS marine is the ex owner of Montreal Mastercraft that close down in 2009.
www.ltsmarine.com/EN/

Boat will premiere tomorrow at the Montreal boat show and will be in Sherbrooke in March.
Graphics are really cool IMO.

Barefooter92
01-26-2011, 08:53 AM
Okay back to the E-boat. I just finished watching the viedo from the other guys. They mention the range is 3-4 skier sets? So we are looking at 9 to 12 runs through the course and done? How do you get there and back without wasting power? I know the concept is good but the range is based on battries and how many you pack in the hull. Sweet boat and great idea, I just need more range.

I hope this is no suprise to MC. I am sure they are ready to unveil the E-craft soon...

FourFourty
01-26-2011, 09:07 AM
As someone said, electricity and water are not a good mix and this little experiment has your family on board. Additionally, if you keep your boat on the water, are you going to have a 240V high amp recharging station on your dock? Let’s not drop the boat plug in the water standing on the dock... whoops!


Its really not very dangerous. The composition of the lake water might have a small bearing on the amount of jolt someone could possibly get out of it I guess(under very specific conditions). Water doesnt conduct electricity....the minerals etc. in the water do. That being said, dropping a 120v/240v charging cord in the lake isnt going to harm anyone around it. In the lake, or not. The current would have tons of better options for a path to ground without going through someones body... If we were talking 20,000 volts with an ample amperage supply to back it up, then we would have to be concerned. Adding a GFCI certainly wouldnt hurt either.

Fortunately, 120V and 240V electrical power has been std at most saltwater recreational boat slips, and used quite safely, for decades.

True, its relatively harmless.

captain planet
01-26-2011, 01:15 PM
But since the electricity use is so low, that's not what's being replaced, because economically the shift in resource allocation is effectively from gasoline to the batteries themselves, so the real issue is where is the money for the batteries going? Since 75 percent of the cost of batteries is in the materials, it's going to the companies mining the ore and the rest is going to the companies manufacturing the batteries. Aren't most of the lithium deposits outside the U.S. and aren't the biggest, most advanced battery manufacturers in the Far East?

If I redistribute the $15k I'd spend on future gas consumption to $15k in battery packs, isn't most of that money leaving the country anyway, just going to a different place? And, regarding the lithium mining that occurs in the U.S., isn't mining that stuff incredibly environmentally unfriendly due to the manner in which its extracted?

I'm all for EVs but the green machine glosses over huge disadvantages as if they were minor annoyances, and the super efficient battery that represents a real alternative to the IC motor is still just a pipe dream. We have miles to go and our progress each year can be measured in feet. I'm all for the investment, just tired of all the hype surrounding EVs.

The largest lithium deposit known at this point is in Afganistan. :rolleyes: Things that make you go HMMM....

CantRepeat
01-26-2011, 01:17 PM
The largest lithium deposit known at this point is in Afganistan. :rolleyes: Things that make you go HMMM....


This post is one of them. 8p

brucemac
01-26-2011, 01:48 PM
how about adding a bunch of little paddle wheels to charge while underway? :D

seems like it won't be long before they figure out a way to transfer engery to maintain or prolong a charge. they're already doing it in autos.

Lars
01-26-2011, 02:29 PM
A few comments on this as a recent EE grad

Somone posted about 1500 pounds of lead in the boat. I'm assuming they won't be using lead, but rather lithium batteries. Lithium is not nearly as dense as lead and also can carry a lot more energy per pound than lead.

Some have raised the issue of the danger of batteries overheating. Hello! How about an unlimited supply of cool water? It'll be easy for the engineers to cool these batteries in a boat.

A hybrid with regeneration wouldn't really work on a boat because you don't really coast or brake in a boat like in a car. Maybe it could work to cut the engine during idle, that could save a decent amount of gas.

Also looking at other EVs I'd venture a guess that that 4 hour charge time is on a high amperage 240V connection.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-26-2011, 02:58 PM
A few comments on this as a recent EE grad

Somone posted about 1500 pounds of lead in the boat. I'm assuming they won't be using lead, but rather lithium batteries. Lithium is not nearly as dense as lead and also can carry a lot more energy per pound than lead.

Some have raised the issue of the danger of batteries overheating. Hello! How about an unlimited supply of cool water? It'll be easy for the engineers to cool these batteries in a boat.

A hybrid with regeneration wouldn't really work on a boat because you don't really coast or brake in a boat like in a car. Maybe it could work to cut the engine during idle, that could save a decent amount of gas.

Also looking at other EVs I'd venture a guess that that 4 hour charge time is on a high amperage 240V connection.

Give it to 'em Lars. :D

Archimedes
01-26-2011, 03:27 PM
The largest lithium deposit known at this point is in Afganistan. :rolleyes: Things that make you go HMMM....

My understanding is that that deposit is unproven and the size of it is the subject of much debate. Plus, the ability to mine it cost competitively is still a huge issue. My understanding is that is one of the problems with the large deposits here in the US in North Carolina.

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 03:31 PM
A few comments on this as a recent EE grad

Somone posted about 1500 pounds of lead in the boat. I'm assuming they won't be using lead, but rather lithium batteries. Lithium is not nearly as dense as lead and also can carry a lot more energy per pound than lead.



They are using Lithium Ion battery packs.

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 03:33 PM
Some have raised the issue of the danger of batteries overheating. Hello! How about an unlimited supply of cool water? It'll be easy for the engineers to cool these batteries in a boat.


There's a Q&A thread for the principles on PN. I asked them what they planned to do about the heat sensitivity of LI batteries so as to not degrade the battery life as well as what precautions they had taken concerning potential, albeit unlikely, chance of exploding LI batteries.

captain planet
01-26-2011, 03:37 PM
An electric ski boat is the perfect answer to the question nobody asked.

As someone said, electricity and water are not a good mix and this little experiment has your family on board. Additionally, if you keep your boat on the water, are you going to have a 240V high amp recharging station on your dock? Let’s not drop the boat plug in the water standing on the dock... whoops!

Maybe there is a reason MC has not done this yet. Maybe they thought through it and realized it is a big investment in a hard economic time and they would be better off developing really cool boats they can sell?

Already has been a consideration.

captain planet
01-26-2011, 03:40 PM
This is so stupid. Almost as stupid as electric weed wackers and lawn mowers. The tree huggers are out again. You get about 4 to 6 sets before having the 4 to 5 hours to charge. That is less than an 1 hour of ski time before you cant ski any more.

Then you got to watch how much you use your stereo or any other electric components. Guess loud music and Led lighting are out with this thing. If not you might get 1 or 2 sets.

What is also stupid is the price will be much higher than the gasoline version. Its dumb dumb dumb.

I will stick to real v8 power that runs on gasoline. This looks like it would work well on a private ski lake, where you do not allow guests or any friends out. Total waste of time and money. Liberals who are concerned in global warming crap must have had a dream to come up with this. Oh yeah and make sure you watch the state of the union address tonight.

Ahh, a badge I wear proudly. ;)

captain planet
01-26-2011, 03:43 PM
Lets see; 80 posts in 10 hours. I like it! :)

See what you started! You are dragging the people that are afraid of change out into the open! :rolleyes:

Archimedes
01-26-2011, 04:06 PM
See what you started! You are dragging the people that are afraid of change out into the open! :rolleyes:

Not afraid to change, just tired of the hype. I'm all for real EVs in all forms. Buzz me again in 20 some odd years when they're a little closer to a practical reality though. They're nowhere near that at the moment.

What you have right now is a really cool paper airplane. Look at how well it flys across my backyard. Now if we could just figure out a way to make it 80 times larger and capable of flying 400 people to Geneva...

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 04:50 PM
Not afraid to change, just tired of the hype. I'm all for real EVs in all forms. Buzz me again in 20 some odd years when they're a little closer to a practical reality though. They're nowhere near that at the moment.

What you have right now is a really cool paper airplane. Look at how well it flys across my backyard. Now if we could just figure out a way to make it 80 times larger and capable of flying 400 people to Geneva...

Out of paper? What if it rained? Sorry, that'll never fly.

aaron.
01-26-2011, 05:02 PM
electric towboat? probably torque-ee as all hell...but idk.

JimN
01-26-2011, 05:21 PM
Out of paper? What if it rained? Sorry, that'll never fly.

Use the coated kind, from a milk carton. Granted, it may need some extra speed, but it will still fly. Kind of. Hurtle is more accurate.

captain planet
01-26-2011, 06:09 PM
I have to be honest....I'm floored by that video. I just think that is amazing. I mean, the amount of energy it takes a boat to overcome the friction of water to get on top of the water and keep moving is pretty substantial. I'm no physicist, but there is a lot of friction to overcome there....and to see it with people skiing behind it just makes me smile. :D A car is a little different story because the friction is much lower than a boat. But to see a boat doing that is pretty d@mn cool.....I don't care what name is on the side of it....did I say that out loud? :confused:

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 06:10 PM
Use the coated kind, from a milk carton. Granted, it may need some extra speed, but it will still fly. Kind of. Hurtle is more accurate.

They made a boat out of newspaper on Mythbusters. Put an outboard on it. Added water and froze it. Cool stuff (no pun).

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/mythbusters-boat-3-0509.jpg

But totally impractical because it eventually melted. So, for some, totally stupid notion that should have never been tested because you can't ski more than a few sets behind it.

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 06:16 PM
I have to be honest....I'm floored by that video. I just think that is amazing. I mean, the amount of energy it takes a boat to overcome the friction of water to get on top of the water and keep moving is pretty substantial. I'm no physicist, but there is a lot of friction to overcome there....and to see it with people skiing behind it just makes me smile. :D A car is a little different story because the friction is much lower than a boat. But to see a boat doing that is pretty d@mn cool.....I don't care what name is on the side of it....did I say that out loud? :confused:

Agreed. And who cares if it is impractical today. They aren't trying to sell it yet. Do it just to prove that it can be done. Next, work on things that can make it be done for a longer time. Then, work on things that can make it be done for less money. Never be comfortable. Keep trying new stuff.

Archimedes
01-26-2011, 06:40 PM
I have to be honest....I'm floored by that video. I just think that is amazing. I mean, the amount of energy it takes a boat to overcome the friction of water to get on top of the water and keep moving is pretty substantial.

But that's exactly where electric motors have a big advantage over IC. More torque, instantly. There's a electric superbike that podiumed against 600's and 848's in an AMA race recently (I believe it was the 600 proddy class). Even though it was a big fat pig, it had a huge torque advantage over the class that overcame the weight disadvantage.

Adding power to an electric powertrain is easy. Just throw more batteries at it. Now keeping those batteries charged and dealing with the weight and the heat is another story entirely.

Double D
01-26-2011, 06:42 PM
I have to be honest....I'm floored by that video. I just think that is amazing. I mean, the amount of energy it takes a boat to overcome the friction of water to get on top of the water and keep moving is pretty substantial. I'm no physicist, but there is a lot of friction to overcome there....and to see it with people skiing behind it just makes me smile. :D A car is a little different story because the friction is much lower than a boat. But to see a boat doing that is pretty d@mn cool.....I don't care what name is on the side of it....did I say that out loud? :confused:

I heard that!! :D:D It is pretty cool stuff!

Archimedes
01-26-2011, 06:47 PM
Out of paper? What if it rained? Sorry, that'll never fly.

You get my point. What we have now are people building really cool paper airplanes and the greenies touting them as if they're just a few simple evolutions away from carrying people anywhere they want to go on nothing but wind. The technical challenges facing EVs remain huge and aren't much different that the ones that existed 40 years ago before some of the smartest people on the planet started pumping billions of dollars into research and development around batteries and electric powertrains.

aquaman
01-26-2011, 06:59 PM
You get my point. What we have now are people building really cool paper airplanes and the greenies touting them as if they're just a few simple evolutions away from carrying people anywhere they want to go on nothing but wind. The technical challenges facing EVs remain huge and aren't much different that the ones that existed 40 years ago before some of the smartest people on the planet started pumping billions of dollars into research and development around batteries and electric powertrains.


Agreed.....a valid alternative to fossil fuels will evolve through research + development and then will thrive in the market because it is better, not just because it is different.

shepherd
01-26-2011, 07:23 PM
how about adding a bunch of little paddle wheels to charge while underway? :D

seems like it won't be long before they figure out a way to transfer engery to maintain or prolong a charge. they're already doing it in autos.

Slalom skiers put out a lot of energy when they ski. Maybe they can harness some of that energy and put it back into recharging the batteries... You get the picture. It may call for some minor adjustments in skiing technique though. :cool:
.

Chief
01-26-2011, 07:53 PM
This would solve the POS MC fuel pump problem.

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 08:39 PM
Slalom skiers put out a lot of energy when they ski. Maybe they can harness some of that energy and put it back into recharging the batteries... You get the picture. It may call for some minor adjustments in skiing technique though. :cool:
.

I'm thinking you harness the energy from the boat wakes as they hit the shore, dissipating them at the same time, and then charge the boat wirelessly through some sort of Tesla inspired wireless energy transfer.

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 08:40 PM
You get my point.

I think so. You want people to fly on paper airplanes.

Chase that dream and pray for sunshine. :)

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 08:49 PM
Slalom skiers put out a lot of energy when they ski. Maybe they can harness some of that energy and put it back into recharging the batteries... You get the picture. It may call for some minor adjustments in skiing technique though. :cool:
.

Just hook the generator up to that little white, plastic doohickey on the MC's slalom pylon and you're good to go. ;)

Age Fighter
01-26-2011, 09:01 PM
Drill baby drill. The Chicoms are. The Russians are. The Venezuelans are. The Brazilians are.

We're pretending we're going to save the planet with all of this green energy stuff -- as if China, Russia, Venezuela and Brazil are on different planets.

The Volt, produced by Government Motors, has an electric range of 35 miles and a gas range of 300 miles. People will buy the Volt to look high minded and never use anything but the gas part of the motor. 35 miles ain't a normal to and from work, let alone soccer practice, trip to gym or grocery thrown in. And it cost 40 grand before the tax payers defray 8 grand of that.

If big powerful Government Motors can't do any better than that, not sure that any ski boat builder will have a viable product. Not for a long time anyway.

brucemac
01-26-2011, 09:14 PM
I'm thinking you harness the energy from the boat wakes as they hit the shore, dissipating them at the same time, and then charge the boat wirelessly through some sort of Tesla inspired wireless energy transfer.

i'm tellin' ya, MORE paddle wheels!

Hammer
01-26-2011, 09:21 PM
My understanding is that the production process that is required to make these batteries produces way more green house gasses than any comparable vehicle will ever produce... EVER. Though I understand the objective to move away from fossil fuels, but it appears we are a long way off. I'm sure someday there will be a great breakthrough, but till then I'll keep pumping gas and forking over the green backs for it.

Archimedes
01-26-2011, 09:53 PM
I think so. You want people to fly on paper airplanes.



No, no, no. I want electric airplanes. Powered by the sun. Captained by Unicorns. With Selma Hayak and her twin sister as stewardesses.

d36yzrider
01-26-2011, 10:25 PM
It ma work for small ski lakes but won't for a weekend of skiing on a large lake unless you bring a generator along to charge the boat and then were back using gas. And something gives me a feeling the batteries= a larger wake no bueno

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 11:06 PM
i'm tellin' ya, MORE paddle wheels!

As long as they're not connected to the boat, I'm with ya. Even with a V8, I'm trading my paddle wheel for a thru-hull depth finder and water temp sensor. I don't need the drag ever since my speed control doesn't need the paddle wheel.

east tx skier
01-26-2011, 11:07 PM
It ma work for small ski lakes but won't for a weekend of skiing on a large lake unless you bring a generator along to charge the boat and then were back using gas. And something gives me a feeling the batteries= a larger wake no bueno

Overall weight differential is only 400 lbs not including the gas tank.

Range and time is definitely an issue, but weight isn't apparently.

ColdTurkey
01-26-2011, 11:10 PM
Not a bad start they've done here... But like any boat or car you buy it does need some modifications. I'm sure nearly everyone here has modified their boat in some way, shape or form to make it better to suit your needs.

I'd definitely miss having a v8 so I'd do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo

Archimedes
01-26-2011, 11:17 PM
Overall weight differential is only 400 lbs not including the gas tank.

Range and time is definitely an issue, but weight isn't apparently.

But weight is totally the issue with any EV. If you want any range at all, you have to add battery packs, which add weight. The range/weight trade-off is what kills EVs. It is THE issue and it's not going to be solved until the Autobots return the Allspark so we can create some new element that stores 10 times the electricity that anything found naturally on Earth does.

The only reason the weight differential is small in this boat is because they haven't put enough batteries in it to make it practical.

captain planet
01-27-2011, 11:00 AM
My understanding is that the production process that is required to make these batteries produces way more green house gasses than any comparable vehicle will ever produce... EVER. Though I understand the objective to move away from fossil fuels, but it appears we are a long way off. I'm sure someday there will be a great breakthrough, but till then I'll keep pumping gas and forking over the green backs for it.

I have a hard time believing that. If you have an electric car and you put 150k miles on it, a comparable car that gets, say, 30 miles per gallon you have saved 5000 gallons of gas with the electric car. If the electric car is charged via solar panels at a home, there would certainly have to be some energy savings. Don't forget, you also save 50+ gallons of oil because there is no oil to change, there is the energy savings of no antifreeze to be produced and shipped, no air cleaners to be produced and shipped, no oil filters to produce and ship, and there is no engine block to produce.

east tx skier
01-27-2011, 11:43 AM
But weight is totally the issue with any EV. If you want any range at all, you have to add battery packs, which add weight. The range/weight trade-off is what kills EVs. It is THE issue and it's not going to be solved until the Autobots return the Allspark so we can create some new element that stores 10 times the electricity that anything found naturally on Earth does.

The only reason the weight differential is small in this boat is because they haven't put enough batteries in it to make it practical.

Even if you add more weight, you can be more creative with how you distribute it because you don't have the CG regulations about fuel tank location. I see your point and if I believed that significant improvements in battery capacity was as long of time coming as you do, I would be as skeptical about whether a boat like this would ever be a viable alternative. But I believe we will see a lot of improvements in this area. As for using it in boats, I'm not talking about it being for a day cruiser. I'm talking about a boat that could do maybe 8 slalom sets with 1.5--2 hrs recharge in between. If you can get that and the cost isn't ridiculous, they will be able to sell a lot of them. Time will tell.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-27-2011, 12:48 PM
I have a hard time believing that. If you have an electric car and you put 150k miles on it, a comparable car that gets, say, 30 miles per gallon you have saved 5000 gallons of gas with the electric car. If the electric car is charged via solar panels at a home, there would certainly have to be some energy savings. Don't forget, you also save 50+ gallons of oil because there is no oil to change, there is the energy savings of no antifreeze to be produced and shipped, no air cleaners to be produced and shipped, no oil filters to produce and ship, and there is no engine block to produce.

I am in favor of innovation, though I don't really think electric is the answer. I would like to think that we will develop another fuel source that is more friendly to the world and something we can produce.

With that said, how does this calculate if instead of spending the money on solar chargers, the charging gets accomplished by plugging it in at home where the local power supply is obtained by burning coal? Nuclear power is cleaner, but there is the spent fuel rods to deal with. Hmmmm.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-27-2011, 12:50 PM
Even if you add more weight, you can be more creative with how you distribute it because you don't have the CG regulations about fuel tank location. I see your point and if I believed that significant improvements in battery capacity was as long of time coming as you do, I would be as skeptical about whether a boat like this would ever be a viable alternative. But I believe we will see a lot of improvements in this area. As for using it in boats, I'm not talking about it being for a day cruiser. I'm talking about a boat that could do maybe 8 slalom sets with 1.5--2 hrs recharge in between. If you can get that and the cost isn't ridiculous, they will be able to sell a lot of them. Time will tell.

Don't think for a second that there won't be regulations regarding battery placement. Doesn't mean that there won't be plenty of opportunity to place them throughout the boat, but then again, there may be some serious limitations.

Archimedes
01-27-2011, 01:23 PM
Even if you add more weight, you can be more creative with how you distribute it because you don't have the CG regulations about fuel tank location. I see your point and if I believed that significant improvements in battery capacity was as long of time coming as you do, I would be as skeptical about whether a boat like this would ever be a viable alternative. But I believe we will see a lot of improvements in this area. As for using it in boats, I'm not talking about it being for a day cruiser. I'm talking about a boat that could do maybe 8 slalom sets with 1.5--2 hrs recharge in between. If you can get that and the cost isn't ridiculous, they will be able to sell a lot of them. Time will tell.

But therein lies the flaw/leap of faith in your logic. It is the common mistake a lot of people are making these days. They assume that there will be a lot of improvements in battery technology and capability in the coming years, when there is absolutely nothing to indicate that and, if anything, history (and physics) seem to indicate the exact opposite. Tons of money has been spent on battery technology for decades and decades by really, really smart people and we're barely closer to a true, viable solution than we were 30 years ago. It's okay to dream, to research and test, as long as we don't make any decisions based on the flawed perspective that we're just a few years of development away from practical EVs all over the streets and lakes of our communites. We're a few years away from a few niche products for a small segment of the market.

aquaman
01-27-2011, 01:25 PM
I am in favor of innovation, though I don't really think electric is the answer. I would like to think that we will develop another fuel source that is more friendly to the world and something we can produce.

With that said, how does this calculate if instead of spending the money on solar chargers, the charging gets accomplished by plugging it in at home where the local power supply is obtained by burning coal? Nuclear power is cleaner, but there is the spent fuel rods to deal with. Hmmmm.

Electric is only one alternative energy option. I do not think there will be a leap to an alternative fuel, but a transition.
Gasoline engines are already becoming cleaner burning and more efficient. This techonology is already available, developed in cars, and has been applied rapidly to marine outboard engines. Yamaha has a 300hp 6cyl 4stroke that would probably pull skiers/boarders nicely? : ) and easily beat a V8 in the fuel dept. Lighter boats and ligher engines w/more efficiency + power will be the next trend I believe. Power to weight/ratio is a Huge factor in both fuel efficiency and performance in boats. The Yamaha weighs in around 600 pounds.......what does the average V8 MCraft engine weigh?

Archimedes
01-27-2011, 01:30 PM
I have a hard time believing that. If you have an electric car and you put 150k miles on it, a comparable car that gets, say, 30 miles per gallon you have saved 5000 gallons of gas with the electric car. If the electric car is charged via solar panels at a home, there would certainly have to be some energy savings. Don't forget, you also save 50+ gallons of oil because there is no oil to change, there is the energy savings of no antifreeze to be produced and shipped, no air cleaners to be produced and shipped, no oil filters to produce and ship, and there is no engine block to produce.

And if everyone had a nice house and parents that loved them and a great school and...sorry, was I asleep?

Truth is that EVs are anything but green. You have to mine the ore, process it and the manufacture the batteries, all of which is anything but environmentally friendly and all of which creates nasty waste by products. Then you have to ship the raw materials to the battery manufacturers. Then you have to ship and truck those heavy batteries from China to the customer. Then you have to produce the electricity, using primarly coal and fossil fuels for the forseeable future. Then when your battery packs die you have to dispose of them or recycle them, which again is a process that creates environmentally unfriendly waste.

I agree that if there was an EV solution that really offered a viable power output compared to IC, it would be preferable, but the zero emission argument is a joke.

And if you don't buy my argument above, Google and watch the Top Gear episode about the manufacture of the Prius batteries. Pretty eye opening. While you're at, you might also watch their test of two Tesla Roadsters, both of which failed miserably (both in terms of range and reliability) in their hands.

On a more relevant note, on the SN blog site, I looked at the SN 200. Someone beat that thing with an ugly stick. Could they have made it look any more like a SkiRay from the early 90s?

broncotw
01-27-2011, 01:46 PM
I am skeptical!

Water and electricity usually do not mix very well together...

Seems to me this boat would either shock you or short out!

Jorski
01-27-2011, 01:48 PM
Truth is that EVs are anything but green. You have to mine the ore, process it and the manufacture the batteries, all of which is anything but environmentally friendly and all of which creates nasty waste by products. Then you have to ship the raw materials to the battery manufacturers. Then you have to ship and truck those heavy batteries from China to the customer. Then you have to produce the electricity, using primarly coal and fossil fuels for the forseeable future. Then when your battery packs die you have to dispose of them or recycle them, which again is a process that creates environmentally unfriendly waste.

The CO2 foot print of an EV is about the same as a Gaoline powered vehicle....more for the batteries in the EV, and less from the electric engine. Don't forget, you have to mine for all of that cast iron and steel in the IC engine also. Not to mention all of those polluted fluids to be disposed of over the life of the gas engine that simply don't exist in an electric motor.

Further, even with coal generated electricity, there is a significant reduction in total CO2 output in an electric vehicle versus gasoline. If you generate the electricity from natural gas, the EV is miles ahead. even further with nuclear and hydro.

In the end, clearly this boat is not ready for primetime; but, it is exactly what we should be striving for.

There is about 19 pounds of CO2 released per gallon of gasoline burnt by an IC engine.

captain planet
01-27-2011, 01:49 PM
And if everyone had a nice house and parents that loved them and a great school and...sorry, was I asleep?

Truth is that EVs are anything but green. You have to mine the ore, process it and the manufacture the batteries, all of which is anything but environmentally friendly and all of which creates nasty waste by products. Then you have to ship the raw materials to the battery manufacturers. Then you have to ship and truck those heavy batteries from China to the customer. Then you have to produce the electricity, using primarly coal and fossil fuels for the forseeable future. Then when your battery packs die you have to dispose of them or recycle them, which again is a process that creates environmentally unfriendly waste.

I agree that if there was an EV solution that really offered a viable power output compared to IC, it would be preferable, but the zero emission argument is a joke.

And if you don't buy my argument above, Google and watch the Top Gear episode about the manufacture of the Prius batteries. Pretty eye opening. While you're at, you might also watch their test of two Tesla Roadsters, both of which failed miserably (both in terms of range and reliability) in their hands.

On a more relevant note, on the SN blog site, I looked at the SN 200. Someone beat that thing with an ugly stick. Could they have made it look any more like a SkiRay from the early 90s?

Your right...there isn't any energy needed to drill for oil and we all know there aren't any nasty waste by products from the refinement of crude oil. And, as we saw last summer/fall there are hardly any oil spills.....but I digress.

Zero emissions is a marketing thing. Everything that is manufactured creates emissions, the monitor you are looking at right now created emissions when it was made. It wouldn't be that unreasonable for people to put solar panels on the top of their dock and have it charge their boat while it is on thier lift......and we have a nice house, I love my kids dearly, and my kids go to a great school.....so ANYTHING is possible! :)

Just to add something...some of the first cars, weren't they crank start? Didn't a lot of them have an open cab?

Archimedes
01-27-2011, 02:02 PM
and you've got to build and maintain a network of charging stations, and put those aesthetically pleasing solar panels everywhere, and we all know that manufacturing solar cells and panels is a totally clean process...

EVs aren't going to save the planet, they're just going to change the dynamics of things a bit. I'd like to see them purely for the noise reduction benefit.

Personally, I'm way more impressed by the FCX Clarity than anything I've seen in the EV world.

Lars
01-27-2011, 02:25 PM
Forgot to add In my previous post,

I don't believe charging EVs is going to be as big of a deal as everyone thinks. As the quantity of these vehciles grows, utilities will develop incentives and implement some smart grid things so they are primarily charged at night, when energy use is way down.

dstone124
01-27-2011, 02:39 PM
This thread really has opened up a lot controversy over what's "green"; right and wrong- but I personally wish that wasn't the focus. If you watch the video, not once do they boast about the environmental impact, or lack thereoff, that this boat is going to make. It does seam to focus on the fact that it has now been done and a couple of pros have enjoyed their first sets with respectful success.
I think that a few of the TT members that are not priviledged with the luxury of living in the States see this as a greater impact than those of us red-white-and-blue-blooded American's. A lot of this is because we are not paying $10/gallon for fuel to push our $60K+ toys around the pond.
Yes, this particular boat's application is specific to those private lake ski snobs (I'd love to be accused as such someday) focused only on posting higher scores and chasing those b@stard turn buoys! But stop and think a minute about how water sports are evolving. More and more cable parks are turning up for the wakeboarders, and guess what's powering those tow lines? In Europe, slalom course passes are also starting to be run in this fashion. I believe some German engineer was the first with a submerged cable pulling a catamaran pylon setup. Guess what's powers this setup?
All-in-all, you can count on this technology and trend continuing to evolve to suit the need that does exist (like it or not). Necessity is the mother of all invention. One way or another, we will all be impacted by CC's decision to move on this project.
Again I say, good luck to them!

east tx skier
01-27-2011, 04:27 PM
But therein lies the flaw/leap of faith in your logic. It is the common mistake a lot of people are making these days. They assume that there will be a lot of improvements in battery technology and capability in the coming years, when there is absolutely nothing to indicate that and, if anything, history (and physics) seem to indicate the exact opposite. Tons of money has been spent on battery technology for decades and decades by really, really smart people and we're barely closer to a true, viable solution than we were 30 years ago. It's okay to dream, to research and test, as long as we don't make any decisions based on the flawed perspective that we're just a few years of development away from practical EVs all over the streets and lakes of our communites. We're a few years away from a few niche products for a small segment of the market.

So you're saying my future prediction logic is flawed! Stupid Mayan calendar! 8p

I'm not really applying all that much logic. Just call it a hunch. If you would have told me 10 years ago that I would have a phone with more processing power than my overclocked desktop PC, I'd have laughed at you. Technology is not growing linearly these days. It is becoming dated in a matter of months. You simply cannot predict the future any better than I can even with what you may know about the present state of battery technology. I have made my prediction that the technology will improve to a satisfactory level; you have made yours that the improvement won't reach that level. But nobody knows today what will happen tomorrow regardless of what he knows today. Time will tell.

east tx skier
01-27-2011, 04:35 PM
This thread really has opened up a lot controversy over what's "green"; right and wrong- but I personally wish that wasn't the focus. If you watch the video, not once do they boast about the environmental impact, or lack thereoff, that this boat is going to make. It does seam to focus on the fact that it has now been done and a couple of pros have enjoyed their first sets with respectful success.
I think that a few of the TT members that are not priviledged with the luxury of living in the States see this as a greater impact than those of us red-white-and-blue-blooded American's. A lot of this is because we are not paying $10/gallon for fuel to push our $60K+ toys around the pond.
Yes, this particular boat's application is specific to those private lake ski snobs (I'd love to be accused as such someday) focused only on posting higher scores and chasing those b@stard turn buoys! But stop and think a minute about how water sports are evolving. More and more cable parks are turning up for the wakeboarders, and guess what's powering those tow lines? In Europe, slalom course passes are also starting to be run in this fashion. I believe some German engineer was the first with a submerged cable pulling a catamaran pylon setup. Guess what's powers this setup?
All-in-all, you can count on this technology and trend continuing to evolve to suit the need that does exist (like it or not). Necessity is the mother of all invention. One way or another, we will all be impacted by CC's decision to move on this project.
Again I say, good luck to them!

Sums up my thoughts pretty well.

Archimedes
01-27-2011, 04:53 PM
So you're saying my future prediction logic is flawed! Stupid Mayan calendar! 8p

I'm not really applying all that much logic. Just call it a hunch. If you would have told me 10 years ago that I would have a phone with more processing power than my overclocked desktop PC, I'd have laughed at you. Technology is not growing linearly these days. It is becoming dated in a matter of months. You simply cannot predict the future any better than I can even with what you may know about the present state of battery technology. I have made my prediction that the technology will improve to a satisfactory level; you have made yours that the improvement won't reach that level. But nobody knows today what will happen tomorrow regardless of what he knows today. Time will tell.

No offense, but there is common mistake #2 everyone makes: assuming the evolution of the semiconductor is in any way relevant to the evolution of battery technology. They are two totally different things with totally different technical challenges.

Compare the performance of a semiconductor today with one of 20 years ago and compare the performance of the cutting edge battery technology of today with that of 20 years ago. Not comparable.

And today's semiconductors are not only vastly better performing, they are much cheaper to produce. Battery technology has barely advanced and, what advances there have been have resulted in huge cost increases. Battery technology is not going to advance like other technologies, because it is still bound by the limitation of the materials involved. There will be incremental improvements in management of the power and recharge rates, but unless we discover some magic new element on earth, progress will be made inch by inch.

BTW, Tesla will be out of money again soon and looking for more before you know it, so there will be ample opportunities to get in on the gravy train! :)

sand2snow22
01-27-2011, 05:11 PM
So you're saying my future prediction logic is flawed! Stupid Mayan calendar! 8p

I'm not really applying all that much logic. Just call it a hunch. If you would have told me 10 years ago that I would have a phone with more processing power than my overclocked desktop PC, I'd have laughed at you. Technology is not growing linearly these days. It is becoming dated in a matter of months. You simply cannot predict the future any better than I can even with what you may know about the present state of battery technology. I have made my prediction that the technology will improve to a satisfactory level; you have made yours that the improvement won't reach that level. But nobody knows today what will happen tomorrow regardless of what he knows today. Time will tell.

Yep, we opened up a 10 year old time capsule over the holidays. There was a phone and a pager in there. We've come a long way... The phone looked straight out of a Vietnam movie ordering an air strike......

BTW, you ever have Pliny the Elder? Did I send that one to you?

captain planet
01-27-2011, 05:12 PM
No offense, but there is common mistake #2 everyone makes: assuming the evolution of the semiconductor is in any way relevant to the evolution of battery technology. They are two totally different things with totally different technical challenges.

Compare the performance of a semiconductor today with one of 20 years ago and compare the performance of the cutting edge battery technology of today with that of 20 years ago. Not comparable.

And today's semiconductors are not only vastly better performing, they are much cheaper to produce. Battery technology has barely advanced and, what advances there have been have resulted in huge cost increases. Battery technology is not going to advance like other technologies, because it is still bound by the limitation of the materials involved. There will be incremental improvements in management of the power and recharge rates, but unless we discover some magic new element on earth, progress will be made inch by inch.

BTW, Tesla will be out of money again soon and looking for more before you know it, so there will be ample opportunities to get in on the gravy train! :)

And any advances in battery technology that come along are bought up by the oil companies so they never see the light of day. :mad:

east tx skier
01-27-2011, 05:40 PM
Yep, we opened up a 10 year old time capsule over the holidays. There was a phone and a pager in there. We've come a long way... The phone looked straight out of a Vietnam movie ordering an air strike......

BTW, you ever have Pliny the Elder? Did I send that one to you?

You did not, but I had previously picked one up on ebay and it is nothing short of outstanding! Vinnie is a master.

east tx skier
01-27-2011, 05:40 PM
No offense, but there is common mistake #2 everyone makes: assuming the evolution of the semiconductor is in any way relevant to the evolution of battery technology. They are two totally different things with totally different technical challenges.

Compare the performance of a semiconductor today with one of 20 years ago and compare the performance of the cutting edge battery technology of today with that of 20 years ago. Not comparable.

And today's semiconductors are not only vastly better performing, they are much cheaper to produce. Battery technology has barely advanced and, what advances there have been have resulted in huge cost increases. Battery technology is not going to advance like other technologies, because it is still bound by the limitation of the materials involved. There will be incremental improvements in management of the power and recharge rates, but unless we discover some magic new element on earth, progress will be made inch by inch.

BTW, Tesla will be out of money again soon and looking for more before you know it, so there will be ample opportunities to get in on the gravy train! :)

It's just an analogy. It doesn't have to be perfect. You still can't predict the future. :) Time will tell.

Archimedes
01-27-2011, 06:24 PM
And any advances in battery technology that come along are bought up by the oil companies so they never see the light of day. :mad:

You're not talking about that old guy and his wife who sold their battery technology to GM and then claimed it would have changed the world if GM hadn't killed it? If it was so ground breaking, why'd he sell it to GM for next to nothing?

Billions have been spent on research and development into battery technology in the last 30 years by a wide variety of people, companies and institutions. The laws of physics have yet to back down.

aquaman
01-27-2011, 06:35 PM
And any advances in battery technology that come along are bought up by the oil companies so they never see the light of day. :mad:

Battery technology is no threat to the major oil companies. The market for battery tech is far greater than that, and will be developed regardless of what big oil does.

Politics is the the biggest threat currently to big oil production and consumption.

03geetee
01-27-2011, 08:49 PM
I like penguins.

JTR

Kyle
01-28-2011, 12:27 AM
All of this equipment is charged with solar solar panels including the fans built in to the pith hats the dudes wear while they push the mowers.

I could have sworn that I drove by your house today. The entire roof was covered in solar panels.

So what happens if a hail storm breaks all of your panels? Guess a total loss of power when back up is gone and you loose all food in the fridge, no TV or video games, no computer, and no cutting your grass in the next few days.:D

Seems like a very efficient way of living, maintenance free, and very convenient if a storm passes through.

Will post pics after I drive by again tomorrow and take them. The house looks so ridiculous.

Age Fighter
01-28-2011, 12:29 AM
This thread really has opened up a lot controversy over what's "green"; right and wrong- but I personally wish that wasn't the focus. If you watch the video, not once do they boast about the environmental impact, or lack thereoff, that this boat is going to make. ..........
All-in-all, you can count on this technology and trend continuing to evolve to suit the need that does exist (like it or not). Necessity is the mother of all invention. One way or another, we will all be impacted by CC's decision to move on this project.
Again I say, good luck to them!

That would be because those baptized in the church of the almighty tree hugger have made all of this about what's "green" and whats right and wrong. The only reason the debate is here, and the only reason for the CC electric boat -- is that debate.

And necessity is the mother of invention -- but PC and government is the mother of most of the green energy movement -- not necessity.

tex
01-28-2011, 08:26 AM
My dad always told me that water and electricity don't mix well!

Hammer
01-28-2011, 09:04 AM
I like penguins.

JTR

I like penguins too, but they are in the way of my oil so they must go!!!



















:D

Granite_33
01-28-2011, 11:27 AM
And any advances in battery technology that come along are bought up by the oil companies so they never see the light of day. :mad:


Do you think that GM's purchase LA and San Diego streetcar / subway systems was an attempt in diversification?

Talk about a HUGE departure point in what California transportation system could have been vs what it is now.

Granite_33
01-28-2011, 01:26 PM
Without a doubt a good start.

But definitely a long way off. 4 or even 5 pulls at 30 seconds - 40 seconds a pull = 3 min max of full operation under load before charging is required.

I'm pulling for a little extra room on the swim platform for a little Honda Genset to sit for extended range :D

MIskier
01-28-2011, 02:16 PM
It was 4 sets which are normally 6-8 passes so between 24 and 32 passes up and down the lake

thatsmrmastercraft
01-28-2011, 02:24 PM
Without a doubt a good start.

But definitely a long way off. 4 or even 5 pulls at 30 seconds - 40 seconds a pull = 3 min max of full operation under load before charging is required.

I'm pulling for a little extra room on the swim platform for a little Honda Genset to sit for extended range :D

It was 4 sets which are normally 6-8 passes so between 24 and 32 passes up and down the lake

So between 16 - 22 minutes?

scott023
01-28-2011, 02:34 PM
So between 16 - 22 minutes?

yah, that'll get it done. :rolleyes:

Archimedes
01-28-2011, 02:38 PM
So between 16 - 22 minutes?

And given that most of us probably put between 4 and 6 hours on our boats on any given day at the lake (and most of our boats are much heavier than that little ski boat), we're only looking at a 15 to 25 fold improvement in performance before it'll match our IC engines. I wouldn't go selling your Ilmor or Indmar stock anytime soon.

MIskier
01-28-2011, 02:43 PM
If the press release is to be believed that the battery power in the boat is equal to approximatly 8 gallons of gas, the run time would be more in the 1.5 - 2 hour range.

All of this is irrelavent though, it is a design and marketing exercise to show what they can do, not that it is practicle for everyday use as it is right now.

TRBenj
01-28-2011, 03:07 PM
And given that most of us probably put between 4 and 6 hours on our boats on any given day at the lake (and most of our boats are much heavier than that little ski boat), we're only looking at a 15 to 25 fold improvement in performance before it'll match our IC engines. I wouldn't go selling your Ilmor or Indmar stock anytime soon.

Clearly Im not "most of us" because all of my boats are the same size (or smaller) than the 196. I (and everyone I ski with) skis off the dock since we live on a small public lake. Therefore, there would be very few days where this electric boat wouldnt get the job done for me. I know I may be in the minority here, but its not like the boat would appeal to 0% of the market.

The best electric ski boat up until now was a 16' Boesche that was capable of 21mph. Being able to push a 20' boat 34+mph all while towing a skier is a pretty significant step forward.

Archimedes
01-28-2011, 03:42 PM
If the press release is to be believed that the battery power in the boat is equal to approximatly 8 gallons of gas, the run time would be more in the 1.5 - 2 hour range.


Setting aside the fact that EVERY EV manufacturer in every segment overstates their true in-use range, if one assumes that the electric powertrain is 6x as efficient as the gas one, you're talking at least 50 kwh of batteries to equal the 8 gallons of gas. Total cost of the batteries about $25,000. And they have a fairly limited life AND they degrade over time, so they'll lose efficiency over the life of the batteries, not deliver 50 kwh right up until they croak. Oh and the cathode is toxic in the LIon batteries and someday needs to disposed of somewhere.

Archimedes
01-28-2011, 03:50 PM
Clearly Im not "most of us" because all of my boats are the same size (or smaller) than the 196. I (and everyone I ski with) skis off the dock since we live on a small public lake. Therefore, there would be very few days where this electric boat wouldnt get the job done for me. I know I may be in the minority here, but its not like the boat would appeal to 0% of the market.

The best electric ski boat up until now was a 16' Boesche that was capable of 21mph. Being able to push a 20' boat 34+mph all while towing a skier is a pretty significant step forward.

Exactly, so for .00001% of the boating public that only skis slalom on a private lake, this boat will be good for them for most days.

No significant step forward, just more batteries and a lighter boat with a more efficient hull. The Boesch boat is a 2,800 lb runabout, not a ski boat. What will be impressive is if SN can get this boat to deliver 3 to 5 times the range it has now. Then things start to get interesting.

east tx skier
01-28-2011, 04:17 PM
I could have sworn that I drove by your house today. The entire roof was covered in solar panels.

So what happens if a hail storm breaks all of your panels? Guess a total loss of power when back up is gone and you loose all food in the fridge, no TV or video games, no computer, and no cutting your grass in the next few days.:D

Seems like a very efficient way of living, maintenance free, and very convenient if a storm passes through.

Will post pics after I drive by again tomorrow and take them. The house looks so ridiculous.

You must have my house mistaken for the Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. You're still hooked into the grid when you use the panels. That brewery can meet up to 80% of its electric costs at peak production. If panels were cost effective, I'd get them. Maybe the insurance company could buy me new ones after each hail storm. Of course, those solar panels are made of tempered glass and supposedly can withstand 1" hail at up to 50 mph (even when not accounting for things like updrafts, that is nearly twice the terminal velocity of your typical 1" hail stone from calculations I've seen). While we do get larger hail around here from time to time, I haven't seen larger than since I have lived here. As for aesthetics, I don't find them any more or less attractive than my asphalt shingles. Of course, those Sierra Nevada guys aren't doing that to save money. Ken Grossman does it because it's his business and he wants to do it. And they use a cr@p ton of electricity at that brewery. Sort of like CC. They aren't a public company either. They did this because they decided to do it. They don't seem particularly concerned with what the naysayers think is possible.

And quit driving by my house! 8p

http://images.gizmag.com/hero/8671_17010843459.jpg

TRBenj
01-28-2011, 04:36 PM
Exactly, so for .00001% of the boating public that only skis slalom on a private lake, this boat will be good for them for most days.

No significant step forward, just more batteries and a lighter boat with a more efficient hull. The Boesch boat is a 2,800 lb runabout, not a ski boat. What will be impressive is if SN can get this boat to deliver 3 to 5 times the range it has now. Then things start to get interesting.
I dont ski on a private lake, nor do I know anyone who does. Everyone that I ski with on a regular basis does so on small, public lakes. Sets are short and its a short drive back to the dock. A few guys have power to the dock for their lifts already. I realize this is not the way you do your boating, but I do think this boat would fit the needs of more than .00001% of the waterskiing community.

I cant read German, but it does appear as though Boesch is marketing their 560 as a tournament ski boat.

Boesch Boats (http://www.boesch-boats.ch/boote/serie-560/560-competition)

It has pulled tournaments in Europe, that much I know. The best they could do a few years ago (2007) with their electric line was 21mph. The 196 is a 2800 lb ski boat and its pulling people through the course. If thats not a significant step forward, Im not sure what is.

Granite_33
01-28-2011, 05:16 PM
OK.....so I was off by a full 13-19 minutes.........

Still gonna wait until I can get another 240 - 360 minutes out of the bat-ray before I go buy one.:D

Granite_33
01-28-2011, 05:23 PM
You must have my house mistaken for the Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. You're still hooked into the grid when you use the panels. That brewery can meet up to 80% of its electric costs at peak production. If panels were cost effective, I'd get them. Maybe the insurance company could buy me new ones after each hail storm. Of course, those solar panels are made of tempered glass and supposedly can withstand 1" hail at up to 50 mph (even when not accounting for things like updrafts, that is nearly twice the terminal velocity of your typical 1" hail stone from calculations I've seen). While we do get larger hail around here from time to time, I haven't seen larger than since I have lived here. As for aesthetics, I don't find them any more or less attractive than my asphalt shingles. Of course, those Sierra Nevada guys aren't doing that to save money. Ken Grossman does it because it's his business and he wants to do it. And they use a cr@p ton of electricity at that brewery. Sort of like CC. They aren't a public company either. They did this because they decided to do it. They don't seem particularly concerned with what the naysayers think is possible.

And quit driving by my house! 8p

http://images.gizmag.com/hero/8671_17010843459.jpg





I heard a rumor that Dow or someone similar was tooling up to manufacture PV cells in shingles......so in essence your house would look no different than it does today (theoretically).

thatsmrmastercraft
01-28-2011, 05:29 PM
I heard a rumor that Dow or someone similar was tooling up to manufacture PV cells in shingles......so in essence your house would look no different than it does today (theoretically).

With the popularity of steel roof panels in so many parts of the country, I would think that it would be easier to make the solar panels more resemble the steel panel look.

Granite_33
01-28-2011, 05:43 PM
With the popularity of steel roof panels in so many parts of the country, I would think that it would be easier to make the solar panels more resemble the steel panel look.



That too!!

Double D
01-28-2011, 07:10 PM
I heard a rumor that Dow or someone similar was tooling up to manufacture PV cells in shingles......so in essence your house would look no different than it does today (theoretically).

No rumor, I have seen these are being developed over 6 months ago. Solar Shingles!! Awesome idea and no unsightly panels that cant pass your local codes! I heard the cost would be around 10% higher if you replaced your entire roof and tore off the old ones. My neighbor looked into it, since he is in that business, and he said they had some damage issue to work through. But that was 2 months ago he said that.

east tx skier
01-28-2011, 07:31 PM
Killer. I only paid $200 for my last roof. What's another $20!

Double D
01-28-2011, 07:43 PM
Killer. I only paid $200 for my last roof. What's another $20!

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

east tx skier
01-28-2011, 08:39 PM
:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

9 year long saga involving 2 denials of coverage, not including the denial of coverage from the previous homeowner who had to discount the place for me for the new roof. In the end, it took a tenacious roofer with an obvious backroom deal to get me what I wanted. I was patient, for sure.

MIskier
01-28-2011, 09:42 PM
Setting aside the fact that EVERY EV manufacturer in every segment overstates their true in-use range, if one assumes that the electric powertrain is 6x as efficient as the gas one, you're talking at least 50 kwh of batteries to equal the 8 gallons of gas. Total cost of the batteries about $25,000. And they have a fairly limited life AND they degrade over time, so they'll lose efficiency over the life of the batteries, not deliver 50 kwh right up until they croak. Oh and the cathode is toxic in the LIon batteries and someday needs to disposed of somewhere.

As I stated this is OBVIOUSLY not a production boat, just a marketing exercise. As a Naval Architect though I am always looking for ways to improve a design and looking at new and out there ideas only helps foster ideas that do actually work in the real world...Oh and a professor that I had powered his 40' sailboat entirely on battery power, so it is very possible just not practical at this point in time.

Double D
01-28-2011, 10:41 PM
9 year long saga involving 2 denials of coverage, not including the denial of coverage from the previous homeowner who had to discount the place for me for the new roof. In the end, it took a tenacious roofer with an obvious backroom deal to get me what I wanted. I was patient, for sure.

Heh, and I thought you were kidding.....

Archimedes
01-29-2011, 12:18 AM
As I stated this is OBVIOUSLY not a production boat, just a marketing exercise. As a Naval Architect though I am always looking for ways to improve a design and looking at new and out there ideas only helps foster ideas that do actually work in the real world...Oh and a professor that I had powered his 40' sailboat entirely on battery power, so it is very possible just not practical at this point in time.

:confused: Powered his sailboat? Doesn't a sailboat use the wind?

I mean, I know they typically have that little diesel powered wind machine on the back as well, but that thing puts out, what 1 HP?

MIskier
01-29-2011, 09:00 PM
:confused: Powered his sailboat? Doesn't a sailboat use the wind?

I mean, I know they typically have that little diesel powered wind machine on the back as well, but that thing puts out, what 1 HP?

The sailboat boat would have originally had a 60HP diesel driving a sail drive, but you also have hotel loads for running A/C heating and whatnot (the boat is a live aboard) so the load is significantly more than just the power needed going into the slip at 1knot. The boat is also set up to charge solely on solar power.

The Drive system of the sailboat is be similar to the one used on Frauscher boats new all electric 650 Alassio.

It is possible to make this work, LTS just grabbed off the shelf motors, controllers, and Li ion batteries to keep the cost viable for perspective customers I would be surprised if there is more than 75K into the boat. With that being said there are much more efficient motors, controllers, and inverters, as well as much more efficient batteries (Li Titanate). But as with everything you get what you pay for, and at some point the costs stop making sense.

Here though the most expensive thing would have been the transfer box, aside from the hull, but the costs would have been small for CC. The 196 mold was just lying around not being used, so someone in the plug shop would have been responsible for building the boat, this cost is already accounted for at the beginning of the year, and using the 196 hull means no interruption of 200 production. Secondly LTS would have footed the bill for the motors and all associated hard and software, and if there was a battery supplier involved that cost can also be removed.

Age Fighter
01-29-2011, 09:34 PM
This boat would have originally had a 60HP diesel driving a sail drive, but you also have hotel loads for running A/C heating and whatnot (the boat is a live aboard) so the load is significantly more than just the power needed putting into the slip at 1knot. The boat is also set up to charge solely on solar power.

The Drive system would be similar to the one used on Frauscher boats new all electric 650 Alassio.

It is possible to make this work in unique situations, even though you seem to think for whatever reason that the whole concept is pointless, to make a boat that can be powered solely on batteries.

60 HP diesel on a 40 footer? methinks not, unless it was way over powered for its class -- which on a sailboat hull is wasted energy. BTW, how did we get off on sailboat power on a MC forum? Oh well, I had a 33 footer one time with a 16 HP diesel. Similar models had up to a 30 HP.

MIskier
01-29-2011, 09:40 PM
It was 40 or 60 HP I would have to ask him again, and it was also a heavy blue water boat.

Age Fighter
01-30-2011, 12:20 AM
It was 40 or 60 HP I would have to ask him again, and it was also a heavy blue water boat.

10-4. Of course, you don't see many sailboats over 20 feet that aren't heavy blue water boats. Our 33 was a Newport, made for the Pacific.

sand2snow22
02-01-2011, 12:18 AM
You did not, but I had previously picked one up on ebay and it is nothing short of outstanding! Vinnie is a master.

I'm going to try to stash some. It's hard to get. I have a friend who works for Miller/Coors and he had another buddy who just passed some test. IIRC it has something to do with beer. He wants his gift to be a bottle of Pliny.

You catch the Beer-the greatest invention in the world on the Discovery channel Sunday?

east tx skier
02-01-2011, 12:46 PM
I'm going to try to stash some. It's hard to get. I have a friend who works for Miller/Coors and he had another buddy who just passed some test. IIRC it has something to do with beer. He wants his gift to be a bottle of Pliny.

You catch the Beer-the greatest invention in the world on the Discovery channel Sunday?

I caught a little of it, but was busy chasing kids around. What I saw was not bad.

captain planet
02-03-2011, 01:32 PM
Here are a couple pictures of the batteries from the electric nautique. It runs an hour maybe, needs to charge for 5 on 220V.

captain planet
02-03-2011, 01:33 PM
The other one...........

captain planet
02-03-2011, 01:33 PM
Close up of the motors......

Jim@BAWS
02-03-2011, 01:36 PM
What boat show was that at??

captain planet
02-03-2011, 01:40 PM
I believe Montreal? But I could be wrong.

André
02-03-2011, 08:17 PM
I believe Montreal? But I could be wrong.

...But you're right!:)
Jim,i think you met Michel Soucy at the dealers meetings before.He started Montreal MC in 06.
The first version with car batteries was using an old MC hull

Shooter McKevin
03-23-2011, 08:30 PM
I have to give this thread a bump.

I'm really surprised it died the way it did. I didn't take part at the time but was following it religiously. I was so impressed with some of the extremely insightful points and perspectives that were brought forward. Some people made comments that I would have never even considered. It's a great example of how our forum brings together a very diverse group of really intelligent people (most of the time), with no shortage of wit either.

The nuclear crisis in Japan will most certainly impact the discussion of how we use electricity and where it comes from, weather it's in relation to charging the electric boat or how we are all one tragedy away from having to survive without it.