Wakeboarding/Slalom taking turns

[cbaird]

I have an older group of wakeboarders aged 30-50 and we like to go between 6am and 9am. Whats a little strange is I'm pretty much the only wakeboarding boat on the lake and there are quite a few slalom skiers. We have been talking with the skiers in the morning so that we can work together, what they want us to do is run the same as they do which is up and down the lake and then get in line (if there are more boats waiting). The problem is a wakeboarding run is different than a slalom run. Their run is like under 5 minutes and we always feel pressured on our runs which take all the FUN out of it (especially if we fall).

There are about 10 boats in the morning that seem consistant and they all talk. Most are staying on the body of water with the slalom course which we try not to go over to out of curtosy. On the other lake are the free riders, what I want to propose so everyone can be on the same page (and they can let the other boats know) is that we will always take turns if another boat is out, either run up and down or max of 10 minutes (haven't brought up the 10minutes yet). Cause when you wakeboard you are always trying to progress and that means trying new things which of course causes you to fall and that takes time. I really wouldn't mind if they ran 2 sets and then just let us run up to 10 minutes a set.

I'm curious about everyones thoughts who slalom skies. If you were approached by a red x-2 and pitched this idea.

The next wakeboarder that gets on my lake better appreciate what I've been through. :)

[MarkP]

I’m thinking, someone is going to have to buy you a ski..:headbang:

[Jorski]

I doubt if this constitutes a soltution, but on our lake, it works as follows:

Slalom skiers on the water at 7:00am, "Gotta get the glass, hurry up!"...

Wakeboarders sleep until noon, "man that was a blow out last night - dude!"

Slalom skiers, go like crazy, back at the cottage by 9:00am. Big plans, going to town, going to build a deck, repair the dock, wax the boat, adjust the boat lift, stare at the boat some more...at noon, chide kids into going skiing not boarding.

Wakeboarders, up at the crack of noon. First beer at ten after..."Breakfast of champions-dude"

Slalom skiers nodding off during dinner, force themselves to take a twilight set...water is calm.

Wakeboarders...just starting to feel it ...going big!

Slalom skier: gets back to cottage..puts on movie...watches half of it -tweaks fin settings- falls asleep...goes to bed early, gotta get up at 6:00am to gas up and wipe down the boat.

Wakeboarder... goes for cruise until midnight..."gotta luv the new thumpers dude !"

and then it all starts again...I don't know if it is safe for the worlds to collide by allowing for the existence of older wakeboarders, who get up early????

posted by old slalom jock (at least in my head)

[John B]

I would be good with that. In fact I think it is a great.
If I could get all other boats to shut down when I was running a set I would be in heaven. As far as two sets and then you get ten minutes.It is about ten minutes per set,a set is 6 passes or 3 falls.
The one thing that you will need to do is when it is your turn is to stay next to the course so your roller will not come back.

[Granite_33]

WAAAYYY to much lake politics for me!! My eyes crossed just reading the post. Tell the flatwater boys to grow up.

[cbaird]

We only run on the body of water without the course. The guys/gals we run into are the ones that aren't comfortable on the course or don't go there because there are too many boats. It only takes them a few minutes to run up and down. They expect us to do he same which is kinda impossible unless you don't want to have fun. We go half the speed and have to fall once or twice. Is the 3 falls kinda a unwritten rule? Someone said that to us, 3 falls and your done with your turn. And I also believe there was a comment such as "if you fall 3 times you shouldn't be going in the morning.".

[MarkP]

...I don't know if it is safe for the worlds to collide by allowing for the existence of older wakeboarders, who get up early????

LMAO:uglyhamme

[cbaird]

WAAAYYY to much lake politics for me!! My eyes crossed just reading the post. Tell the flatwater boys to grow up.

Your telling me!

My riders all live on a lake of their own and are very surprised with the politics and the number of skiers on my lake. My lake is a very nice lake to run on though because of how it is shaped. Long run and the wakes dissapate. On their lakes there are a number of wkbd boats which of course doesn't single out one person. On my lake I'm it. The lake is private (no public access) and about 300 acres. Alot of the people have lived there for a long time. Guess its change more than anything.

Talk about politics yesterday somebody was pissed so they ran doughnuts around us and did everything they could to make our rider fall. It was very reckless driving, we had to stop and I had to talk to them and get an ear full.

[John B]

When you are in a course that is it 6 passes or 3 falls .
But you can stop the boat after a pass to change the speed, rope length,or to rest and that is not a fall.

[BriEOD]

Your telling me!

My riders all live on a lake of their own and are very surprised with the politics and the number of skiers on my lake. My lake is a very nice lake to run on though because of how it is shaped. Long run and the wakes dissapate. On their lakes there are a number of wkbd boats which of course doesn't single out one person. On my lake I'm it. The lake is private (no public access) and about 300 acres. Alot of the people have lived there for a long time. Guess its change more than anything.

Talk about politics yesterday somebody was pissed so they ran doughnuts around us and did everything they could to make our rider fall. It was very reckless driving, we had to stop and I had to talk to them and get an ear full.

I'd have probably had to call my wife to come bail me out of jail for choking somebody's @$$. That's B.S. Those guys need to grow up (coming from a slalom skier). That's not solving anything.

[Granite_33]

Is the 3 falls kinda a unwritten rule? Someone said that to us, 3 falls and your done with your turn. And I also believe there was a comment such as "if you fall 3 times you shouldn't be going in the morning.".


I fell about 10 times in each of my boarding sessions last weekend, because I am trying new tricks, trying to push my limits. If someone limited me to 3 falls, then I would be p*ssed. You're out there to have fun, not be an accountant. Seems like a goofy rule. Go till your happy is my one and only "rule" (unless I am pulling a tube) :)

This place sounds like a small lake. Where is it?

[cbaird]

BriEOD,

It was the crapiest thing I had ever had anyone do in my life. If they didn't like something I was doing they should have came over raised their hand and I would have listened. My wife is just getting into the sport and I got a baby sitter for 6am that morning to let her enjoy what I've been enjoying and sure enough this had to be the day that everyone was being punks. It was my wife they complained about too, they told her to go in the evening. She spoke up and gave them a piece of her mind. Should have called the sheriff for the reckless driving and skiing without a spotter. It also seems the attitude is worse depending on the boat they drive. This guy had an older moomba and lived on a channel somewhere and you could tell he didn't take much care of it and left it in the water all the time (dirty bottom). Most of the rest of the crowd are malibu's which are a little better and the MC and CC people seem to be professional.

[cbaird]

I fell about 10 times in each of my boarding sessions last weekend, because I am trying new tricks, trying to push my limits. If someone limited me to 3 falls, then I would be p*ssed. You're out there to have fun, not be an accountant. Seems like a goofy rule. Go till your happy is my one and only "rule" (unless I am pulling a tube) :)

This place sounds like a small lake. Where is it?

It's in Michigan by Novi (detroit suburb). This is one of the top 10 lakes in the county - there are 100's. It is small, like 300 acres split between 2 bodies of water with a wide short channel connecting the two. I'm a very aggressive rider and fall alot trying new stuff, it's fun to do a few things you are good atm but you have to build your bag of tricks which is what makes boarding so fun. Always something new to learn which = falling.

[John B]

I fell about 10 times in each of my boarding sessions last weekend, because I am trying new tricks, trying to push my limits. If someone limited me to 3 falls, then I would be p*ssed. You're out there to have fun, not be an accountant. Seems like a goofy rule. Go till your happy is my one and only "rule" (unless I am pulling a tube) :)

This place sounds like a small lake. Where is it?
I was just saying that 3 falls is all the ski in the course get.
You get your 10 minutes you fall as much as you want in your 10 minutes. If the skier in the course falls 3 times he or she is done.

[LakePirate]

I would just love it if while out free skiing or boarding that someone actually had the respect to let someone finish/make their run before they just took off.

[shepherd]

CBAIRD, you guys are COOL man, to actually give some consideration to the slalom skiers out there. Never saw that from any of the wakeboarders on the lake I used to ski on (you ever been on Lake Conway Granite???). I personally don't like "rules" but if you see a guy/girl going through the slalom course, be nice and let them finish.

If you all could agree on a rule, though, I think 10 minutes or 2 sets (of 3 falls) would be good. But what do you all do, take a number???
Maybe there should be wakeboard-only lakes and slalom-only lakes (and no PWC lakes! :D )

[Granite_33]

I was just saying that 3 falls is all the ski in the course get.
You get your 10 minutes you fall as much as you want in your 10 minutes. If the skier in the course falls 3 times he or she is done.

I was talking about boarding. 3 falls boarding takes me all of 5 minutes. :D 3 falls in the course makes sense, especially if there are others waiting. I free ski, so I don't run into this.

Point being that when I am either boarding or skiing, I want to enjoy my time out there. It would be no fun to me having others watch me, and time what I do, etc, etc. It goes completely against my idea of fun on the water.

Cheers :toast:

[cbaird]

CBAIRD, you guys are COOL man, to actually give some consideration to the slalom skiers out there. Never saw that from any of the wakeboarders on the lake I used to ski on (you ever been on Lake Conway Granite???). I personally don't like "rules" but if you see a guy/girl going through the slalom course, be nice and let them finish.

If you all could agree on a rule, though, I think 10 minutes or 2 sets (of 3 falls) would be good. But what do you all do, take a number???
Maybe there should be wakeboard-only lakes and slalom-only lakes (and no PWC lakes! :D )

There is a slalom lake w/course and the other is the one we ride on (2 bodies of water). I was hoping ours would become the wakeboard lake. The experienced skiers go to the course lake now. The old crowd still likes to ride on the non-course lake. They all start at one specific point on the lake and their unwritten rule is that when other boats are out you slowly go to the point and get in line and wait for your turn. run your run and then get back in line. When I see them and I don't see anybody on the course lake I tell them that no one is on the course lake and if they could go there (they don't like that). I also say if there is a crowd we could alternate sets. It doesn't make sense though that if there is no-one on the "slalom" lake why they shouldn't go there.

[BriEOD]

Baird,

That just stinks man. I had something similar happen to my wife. I was actually skiing down the river and she was driving. A boat was coming at her (1970's tri-hull w/ outboard) she stayed to the right as she was supposed to. This guy kept going to his left, her right (wrong way knucklehead). She kept moving over and over until it was finally unsafe. He kept doing the same and he eventually turned hard right into the bank. I was behind the boat watching the entire thing. As soon as we got around the bend I dropped off. I didn't drop earlier cause I was afraid of being runover. About 5-10 minutes later this guy comes pulling up. It's like 5 bubbas and some hag with a case of empty natty lights in the bottom of there boat (it's 9:30am) and the guy starts calling my wife a b"i"tch. I about lost it. I gave him a little lesson on boating and etiquette. Of course I had my daughter and Carla was pregnant at the time. Some people are just jerks...

I feel where your coming from...

[Granite_33]

(you ever been on Lake Conway Granite???).


Me? No. Wheres that?

[cbaird]

Baird,

That just stinks man. I had something similar happen to my wife. I was actually skiing down the river and she was driving. A boat was coming at her (1970's tri-hull w/ outboard) she stayed to the right as she was supposed to. This guy kept going to his left, her right (wrong way knucklehead). She kept moving over and over until it was finally unsafe. He kept doing the same and he eventually turned hard right into the bank. I was behind the boat watching the entire thing. As soon as we got around the bend I dropped off. I didn't drop earlier cause I was afraid of being runover. About 5-10 minutes later this guy comes pulling up. It's like 5 bubbas and some hag with a case of empty natty lights in the bottom of there boat (it's 9:30am) and the guy starts calling my wife a b"i"tch. I about lost it. I gave him a little lesson on boating and etiquette. Of course I had my daughter and Carla was pregnant at the time. Some people are just jerks...

I feel where your coming from...

It's a scary thing - he ran right behind my skier and came at us head on. Also, his wife was a hag as well. She tried to do some zingers while hiding at the same time. The convo was somewhat civil, he should have talked rather then acted in the first place. I'm so tempted to call the fuz on him but know this is better dealt with in person. I don't want my boat f'd up some night.

[Granite_33]

This guy had an older moomba and lived on a channel somewhere and you could tell he didn't take much care of it and left it in the water all the time (dirty bottom).

Old Moomba...that speaks volumes to me!!! :D I picture a guy, living in a van, down by the river........

We weekend in Coldwater, MI. (Randall Lake, North Lake, Cemetary Lake, Morrison Lake, Messenger lake.....all channel connected) Public lakes, no courses...all kinds of boats.

Seriously, though. Kudos to you for being professional and considerate of good water for skiers.

Also Kudos to you for communicating with them. Most people would not do this and let the cards fall where they may, which leads to rumors, which then become truth.

From what you have described, it sounds like a "system" was established long ago. probably a pecking order too. You are the new guy out there......boarding away, and everybody resents it probably because they have all heard rumors, stories, etc,etc about how inconsiderate the boarding crowd is....(and we are such nasty people :D )

My Take. Free boarding when no one else is out. No time limit.
When boats are out. 10 minutes of boarding. Then back in line.
(hopefully not too many boats in line are there?) Can you board on the slalom lake if its empty??

Tough situation any way you cut it.

[J. Patterson]

On Logan Martin last year some wakeboarders built a rail right next to the slalom course that had been kept there for over 10 years.. There are lots of them and only a few slalom skiers. We would have to wait hours for a chance at the slalom course. It became only an early morning course. Someone----- could have been the water patrol---- I don't know who, tore out the rail. Then someone--- I don't know who------, cut out the course. Sad for all. Especially those of us who had never crossed anyone there. (Well there was that jet ski that went head to head with me a few years ago while I was pulling a 32 off pass. ;) )
"When worlds collide"

J. Patterson
Trussville, AL

[cbaird]

My Take. Free boarding when no one else is out. No time limit.
When boats are out. 10 minutes of boarding. Then back in line.
(hopefully not too many boats in line are there?) Can you board on the slalom lake if its empty??

Tough situation any way you cut it.

I think 10 minutes is sane also. Not usually too many boats in line, it is usually one boat gets off then another is out. Kinda like they had their times all worked out for years. We went on the course lake a couple of times in the beginning because there was no one there. Problem is that they start showing up as soon as you get there and then your in worse shape. plus to make your wakeboard run you have to cross a large sand bar which kills your wake (good for them). Also, talked to a couple of guys later and they told me they appreciate me for staying on the non slalom lake. So I guess things are a changing - takes time, sweat and mental energy. The next wakeboarder (which is only a matter of time) is going to have it easy from my sweat!

[Granite_33]

I think 10 minutes is sane also. Not usually too many boats in line, it is usually one boat gets off then another is out. Kinda like they had their times all worked out for years. We went on the course lake a couple of times in the beginning because there was no one there. Problem is that they start showing up as soon as you get there and then your in worse shape. plus to make your wakeboard run you have to cross a large sand bar which kills your wake (good for them). Also, talked to a couple of guys later and they told me they appreciate me for staying on the non slalom lake. So I guess things are a changing - takes time, sweat and mental energy. The next wakeboarder (which is only a matter of time) is going to have it easy from my sweat!

You're putting a good face on the sport of wakeboarding, thats for sure.
The folks you're being so nice to probably don't realize the fun one can have wakeboarding....and its much easier on the body.

Reminds me of a quote....."change is good.....you go first"


Cheers :toast:

[JDK]

Talk about politics yesterday somebody was pissed so they ran doughnuts around us and did everything they could to make our rider fall. It was very reckless driving, we had to stop and I had to talk to them and get an ear full.

A little suggestion for you when someone does something as stupid as this. ---let them see that you are videoing or snapping still pics. If it doesn't end immediately, just send what you shot to the water cops (and if you get challenged on what you are doing, tell them that their reg. #'s were very clear in the pictures)

[Granite_33]

I saw on another thread where private lakes are not bound by state boating laws. So the "no observer" argument may not hold water.

Same goes for idiot moron moomba drivers. If its a private lake he's on, then the man may choose not to get involved.

Not sure, though. It probably varies by state.

:twocents:

[cbaird]

What I mean by private is that there is no public access, we do have a permanent sheriff boat on the lake - although he is only out on the weekends and holidays. And in michigan you must have a spotter, without one both the driver and the skier get like a $150-$200 dollar fine.

[Granite_33]

What I mean by private is that there is no public access, we do have a permanent sheriff boat on the lake - although he is only out on the weekends and holidays. And in michigan you must have a spotter, without one both the driver and the skier get like a $150-$200 dollar fine.

And that $150 - $200....is seriously needed gas money these days.

[cbaird]

And that $150 - $200....is seriously needed gas money these days.

Tell me about it, I spend about $100 a week on gas.

[Davo]

This stinks. I mean, you move to a lake and spend all that money and then you have to conform to everyone's way of doing things on the water.

That being said - I think you're doing the right thing. The alternative will only piss everyone off even further. I wouldn't mess too much with the Moomba moron. Some people are not worth it - they'll exact some type of revenge, especially if they're high on "zingers" (provided I interpreted that correctly).

Just keep communicating with them and they'll get over it and eventually accept that the "rules" may need a little tweaking.

BTW, if noone is on the coarse lake - I'd be there. They better have a legitimate gripe...

[Ben]

Interesting thread. For a while, I thought you were talking about the lake(s) we ski on, but I've never seen a red X-2, or 10 boats deep in line. We ski on a similar setup, and I'm (un)anxiously waiting to see what happens when the 1st wakeboarder decides a 7am run sounds fun.

Typically, it is what the earlier post said, skiers / footers up at the crack of dawn, hoping for "good" water until 9am or so. Occasionally your uncle Wally decides a 8am circle run is a good idea, or the bass boat parallells the course at 10mph, but mostly it is ok. Then,s ometime between 9-11 is when it changes to jetski / wakeboard / free for all lake.... Does your lake get the same after a certain time, which is why you want to ride earlier?

You are very considerate in thinking / investigating so much, especially considering you are obiding by their unwritten or enforcable rules... However, being on the private lake, you are also the one who will have to deal with all of them if you are really rude. We had similar issues when we first started on the lake, but have gotten familiar with the rules, and they are fine. They make perfect sense to skiers, and are insane to non-skiers. Choppy water makes it fun right????

We also use the 6 pass / 3 fall rule in the course. Or, up and down the lake once if not using coure, or if isn't up. A note on your 10 minute rule, aggressive slalom skiing is a workout! I don't think they would sign up for a 12 pass / 6 fall rule... I would suggest proposing you get 10 minutes to every other one of their 5's.

good reading.

[Granite_33]

Any rules should be written, otherwise, they are subject to each and every owners interpretation, and keeps the door open for continual "updating" by the owners who don't like what they see.

This will keep Mr. Richard Johnson from pulling up to you every time you are out telling you what you need to do, or how you are doing something wrong. To me that would be infuriating.

Ben, are those written or unwritten rules on your lake? 9-11 is when others can come out by written rule? Or is it just understood by all?

Thanks all.

[cbaird]

We ski on a similar setup, and I'm (un)anxiously waiting to see what happens when the 1st wakeboarder decides a 7am run sounds fun.

for all lake.... Does your lake get the same after a certain time, which is why you want to ride earlier?


We ride earlier for 2 reasons:

1) because it's the only time we can go when the water will be calm (we need glass to). We all work so it is either morning or evening. If we go in the evening it's crap and there are tubers and jet skiers to dodge plus the wind is usually blowing more.

2) myself and some others have families and its hard to go out for few hours in the evening a few days a week. Whereas in the morning it isn't taking as much away from the wife and kids. Then in the evening the whole family can go out and tube and ski together.

our lake doesn't get real hectic through the week, you can usually even wakeboard/slalom in the evenings. Actually I went boarding at lunch today and it was me and another boat. What was nice is that there was no PRESSURE.

[Ben]

33:
The rules are unwritten, but understood by those who use the course in the am. The 9-11 "switch" time is just an estimate, wish that one was written... Basically it is whenever all of the lake kids get up on weekends and either want pulled on the tube or decide it is waverunner time.... Only cool, cloudy days, it may stay a bit calmer until 10 or 11 sometimes.

cbaird:
Completely understand boarders need glass too, I ride on those some as well. Although I don't have the goods below to "risk" a run during slalom time.... Unless we were the only boat out there.


At the end of the day, keep in mind your still boating. Bad day at the lake is better than good day at work. Unless you make bad driving comment to wife, then all bets are off.... :eek:

[cbaird]

cbaird:
Although I don't have the goods below to "risk" a run during slalom time.... Unless we were the only boat out there.

At the end of the day, keep in mind your still boating. Bad day at the lake is better than good day at work. Unless you make bad driving comment to wife, then all bets are off.... :eek:

It really does suck to have to deal with them, I was out yesterday afternoon and evening and we pretty much had the lake to ourself except for another boarder and it was great. No pressure, No looking over your shoulder, No worries about falling down. Even talked with the other boarders for a couple of minutes and it was all good. I do dread the mornings a bit now, but I'll be damn if I will cave in. They will need to deal with the situation and get over it!

My wife is a pretty good driver except for the accasional times were the cruise isn't flipped on and I end up going 35 mph :) Sad part is that I forget to engage it more than anyone else.

[tex]

My rule for wakeboard/slalom turns-Get behind the jumper!

oh yeah, hold my beer too!

[3event]

We all try, but it's hard to "just get along" when the courtesy we show others is the exception on the water.....

It's risky to be too aggressive in responding to irresponsible behavior, right? Around here, the jetskis have gotten hazardous enough that I am considering a hand held air horn. Anyone use these things? Our lake is only 100 acres , so if I start using it there's no hiding. I could go from "the guy with the yellow mastercraft" to "airhorn guy". Anger management....

I do have a spare video cam that we may keep in the boat as well - another possibility.....

[stevo137]

Around here, the jetskis have gotten hazardous enough that I am considering a hand held air horn. Anyone use these things? Our lake is only 100 acres , so if I start using it there's no hiding. I could go from "the guy with the yellow mastercraft" to "airhorn guy". Anger management....

Portable flame thrower. Works every time! :D
(Seriously, I do like the airhorn idea).

[3event]

Steveo , that's what I like to see !!!! Maybe I'll hang that pic up in the garage !

[cbaird]

What I've seen mostly on my lake is the tubers and the speeders are the guys out of control. These guys drive a big machine and are all over the place which really stirs the water. I'd rather deal with a few jet skis then one of these guys. Typically the crazy folks are the people that get access from a sub that has a launch. The jet skiers are typically residents on the lake. Could be the reason. The crazy jet skiers I've seen are on the huge lakes with massive public launches.

[3event]

Portable flame thrower. Works every time! :D
(Seriously, I do like the airhorn idea).

With due respect to stevo for the awesome pic, i could not resist the temptation. If anyone else has some real software for this task have at it (resolution stinks), but meanwhile.......

[Richie2004]

What are you crazy?
I am the oldest of this group and I hung up my ski 5 years ago. Wakeboarding is way more fun.