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prostar205
01-16-2011, 11:47 PM
Here is the start of my winter ballast system make over. First, a little history. I have a 2002 X-30. I removed the hard tanks and replaced them with the Fly High 750lb sacs in the rear compartments. I also had a custom larger center ski locker sac made that holds roughly 500lbs. Finally, I have the triangular Fly High sac for the bow that sit on the bow cushions. I fill this sac up using the Tsunami pump. The other 3 sacs are filled (very slowly) with the 3 stock ballast puppies. This winter I decided to rip out the ballast manifold that came from the factory.

Next, will be to drill to additional holes for thru-hull fittings. My plan is to feed each ballast puppy with its own water source. I will also be draining the water from these same thru-hull fittings. It that does not work I'll add y-adaptors and drain out the stock locations.

Lastly, I have polished the insides of the ballast puppies and will be mounting the pumps with the impeller on the bottom and motor on top - as directed by the people at Wakemakers.

I'm getting all my stuff from Wakemakers.

Here are some pictures of the ballast pumps and ballast manifold.

lintwurm
01-17-2011, 06:14 AM
I have a 2000 XStar (205V) and have been doing the same (filling and draining through the same thru hull). I do not have a vent on the bag and thus when draining suck out all the water and air thru a fitting I made which ensures that the hole is not blocked by the bag when draining. They say that this is not healthy because I could burst the bag but it has been working for me. When filling I stand still not to suck up any air. Basically I need no check valves and this speeds up the filling and draining process.

KnoxX2
01-17-2011, 02:29 PM
What did you use to polish the pumps?

prostar205
01-17-2011, 02:39 PM
I have a 2000 XStar (205V) and have been doing the same (filling and draining through the same thru hull). I do not have a vent on the bag and thus when draining suck out all the water and air thru a fitting I made which ensures that the hole is not blocked by the bag when draining. They say that this is not healthy because I could burst the bag but it has been working for me. When filling I stand still not to suck up any air. Basically I need no check valves and this speeds up the filling and draining process.

I definately agree and understand that not using check valves will increase the flow. I am not planning on using check valves either. However, I do have vents plumbed on each bag.

prostar205
01-17-2011, 02:40 PM
What did you use to polish the pumps?

Mothers Aluminum Wheel polish and the rubbing compound that came with the Dremel polishing kit. The Mothers Alumimun polished worked best. I also used a high speed polishing wheel on the cover plates.

KnoxX2
01-17-2011, 02:43 PM
I wonder if the Mothers Power ball mini would work!

prostar205
01-17-2011, 02:51 PM
I wonder if the Mothers Power ball mini would work!

I removed the impeller housing from the pump so the pump shaft would not get in the way. You might be able to use the small power ball. I have one but did not think of using it. It may still be too big to get into the corners. I also polished the inlet and outlet portions of the impeller casting.

KnoxX2
01-17-2011, 02:57 PM
Did you see a big improvement on the time to fill and empty the bags?

prostar205
01-17-2011, 03:01 PM
Not a big improvement in fill times because I'm still limited by the manifold not being able to supply enough water to run all 3 or even 2 pumps at the same time. What I believe polishing the ballast pumps help with is the reversing of the impellers. They never get stuck with the insides polished. I am sure that when I get done with this project - feeding each pump with an individual thru-hull supply of water that I'll be able to fill all 2,000 lbs in less than 10 minutes.

KnoxX2
01-17-2011, 03:03 PM
BTW when I had my ballast system installed a few years ago I had them do a seprate pickup for each pump. They also empty through the same pickup. Mastercraft is useing a plastic through hole pickup. I have not had a problem with them but I know that this year it is time to change all the impellers. One thing i had to do so I could rum all three pumps at the same time is install a larger circut braker. Just something to think about!

KnoxX2
01-17-2011, 03:08 PM
Wow it takes me that long to fill my 450 bag and the 750 in the bow. Reason I asked is this year I am upgrading to either the 750 bags in the rear or a custom made 900 or 1000 Lb bags. we do alot of surfing and I just need a little more back there.

jason@wakemakers.com
01-17-2011, 05:35 PM
With a dedicated intake, minimized hose routing and green impellers it will take approximately 8 minutes to fill or drain a 750 with a Ballast Puppy.

Smoothie
01-17-2011, 06:10 PM
Jason and Stewart I think it is are awesome at wakemakers they helped me get mine done right and suggested against reducing to 3/4 but I did not want to drill anymore than I had too. Bought all my stuff there the through hulls hosing etc. Great guys very knowledgeable.

KnoxX2
01-17-2011, 08:10 PM
With a dedicated intake, minimized hose routing and green impellers it will take approximately 8 minutes to fill or drain a 750 with a Ballast Puppy.

Thanks I will give it a try!! Do you guys sell the green impellers? And if so how much!
Also have you ever seen or heard of anyone removing the stock rear tanks and installing a 900 or 1000 Lb bag in there. I think it can be done by looking at the dimensions of the bags?

jason@wakemakers.com
01-18-2011, 05:18 PM
Yep, we've got them, and they're $24.95, you can view them on our site here (http://www.wakemakers.com/jabsco-ballast-puppy-green-neoprene-impeller.html).

While it's possible to remove the tank below the floor, I don't know of anyone that's tried that yet. Sounds like a good experiment that we'll have to play around with though. The big issue I see is the unfinished appearance of the boat with the floor panel and tank removed; I imagine not many people would go for that.

KnoxX2
01-18-2011, 06:07 PM
I have a X2/200 that did not come with tanks or a floor panel. I currently have the Fly-hi 400Lb bags back there and I know I have a lot of room to go. I have ssen many people on here that have removed the hard tanks and went with just bags. Also I have a friend on here(Chief) that has cracked his hard tank with the bags on top. I think there are people willing to do it if it will improve the wake size.

The X2 is a great boat however many of us that love to surf don't have a lot of options when it comes to makeing the wake tall enough and long enough with out stacking bags on the seats. I 'm just wondering if we could design a bag that would fill the whole compartment and create a wakesurf ballest setup that people could buy as a package!

SteveO
01-18-2011, 06:45 PM
Looking good Tom. Did the rain on the long weekend keep you off the hill? I think you should change your tag line to the obsessed owner of the possessed boat. :) I need some of the hall passes momma gives you to do all your projects.

jason@wakemakers.com
01-18-2011, 07:18 PM
I have a X2/200 that did not come with tanks or a floor panel. I currently have the Fly-hi 400Lb bags back there and I know I have a lot of room to go. I have ssen many people on here that have removed the hard tanks and went with just bags. Also I have a friend on here(Chief) that has cracked his hard tank with the bags on top. I think there are people willing to do it if it will improve the wake size.

The X2 is a great boat however many of us that love to surf don't have a lot of options when it comes to makeing the wake tall enough and long enough with out stacking bags on the seats. I 'm just wondering if we could design a bag that would fill the whole compartment and create a wakesurf ballest setup that people could buy as a package!

Sounds like a fun project to me! ;) If you're interested in taking it on we'd be happy to sponsor it, just let me know.

FlatBoard
01-18-2011, 08:07 PM
Human ballast works as well!! Just how much weight do u guys need for surfing? I have an 04 X-30 and it seems to do well with the stock ballast tank. I just put everybody in the corner of the bench seat and can surf with 2-3 people. Just saying. I should try an aditional bag in the rear compartment to see if it make a difference for me.

I have not polished the pumps. This is the first I have heard of this. Will give a try. Thanks for the info and good luck with finishing your project.

jason@wakemakers.com
01-18-2011, 08:11 PM
If you think the wake with stock ballast and a couple of people is sufficient you better not try a larger bag in the rear locker, you might be addicted. ;)

FlatBoard
01-18-2011, 08:45 PM
We are talking some fat italians here!! Got enough to go full tilt. I have considered placing bags in the rear compartments and building a false bottom shelf to maintain some storage.

CantRepeat
01-18-2011, 09:29 PM
If you think the wake with stock ballast and a couple of people is sufficient you better not try a larger bag in the rear locker, you might be addicted. ;)


I ordered, and received today, a custom 640 lb sac for my X30 port side locker. I noticed the 400 lb bag was no were near wide enough to use all the space in that locker. I also have custom fitting locations that will line up better with the hard tank.

Now I just have to finish turning the pump over and plumbing the sac in. Well, that and wait for it to warm up down here. I'm pretty excited to see the wave now.

FlatBoard
01-18-2011, 09:38 PM
Now I just have to finish turning the pump over and plumbing the sac in. Well, that and wait for it to warm up down here. I'm pretty excited to see the wave now.

It should be impressive..

KnoxX2
01-18-2011, 10:04 PM
Sounds like a fun project to me! ;) If you're interested in taking it on we'd be happy to sponsor it, just let me know.

PM sent :)

jason@wakemakers.com
01-19-2011, 02:12 PM
I ordered, and received today, a custom 640 lb sac for my X30 port side locker. I noticed the 400 lb bag was no were near wide enough to use all the space in that locker. I also have custom fitting locations that will line up better with the hard tank.
Nice, I can't wait to see some pictures when it warms up!

PM sent :)
Replied :)

kevkan
01-19-2011, 11:56 PM
I was under the impression that people were routinely removing their hard tanks, and replacing with 450 or 750 lb bags. Is this not the case?

I was thinking of removing my tanks, putting in some 750's and an integrated bow sack in my 2008 X-1. My goal is to have nothing on the floor or seats, everything filled/drained from the factory pumps. Is this a reasonable solution for max wake without climbing over sacks, and dealing with tsunami pumps and cords?

Jason...?

mccobmd
01-20-2011, 09:06 AM
I was under the impression that people were routinely removing their hard tanks, and replacing with 450 or 750 lb bags. Is this not the case?

I was thinking of removing my tanks, putting in some 750's and an integrated bow sack in my 2008 X-1. My goal is to have nothing on the floor or seats, everything filled/drained from the factory pumps. Is this a reasonable solution for max wake without climbing over sacks, and dealing with tsunami pumps and cords?

Jason...?

Depends on if you primarily want to wakeboard or surf. If you want to wakeboard then do what I did and remove the hard tanks and put 750's in the back, an integrated bow sac up front with kgb. I were only going to surf I would put an Enzo sac in the port rear and under the seats to maximize that side with a v drive sac in front storage on the port side. Problem with the enzo sac is you can't even it out for wakeboarding because even partially filled some goes up under the side seat. I have the 06 X1 and didn't think there was room for a full 400 with the hard tanks still in place.

jason@wakemakers.com
01-20-2011, 01:13 PM
I was under the impression that people were routinely removing their hard tanks, and replacing with 450 or 750 lb bags. Is this not the case?

I was thinking of removing my tanks, putting in some 750's and an integrated bow sack in my 2008 X-1. My goal is to have nothing on the floor or seats, everything filled/drained from the factory pumps. Is this a reasonable solution for max wake without climbing over sacks, and dealing with tsunami pumps and cords?

Jason...?
Depending on what year and model boat we're talking about, yes, it is common. Mastercraft (and most of the other major manufacturers) have used two types of hard tank based ballast systems over the years:

Early Systems: Hard tank installed above the floor of the boat in the rear locker (this is what you have in your X1).

Later Systems: Hard tank installed below the floor of the boat in the rear locker.

For boats like your X1 (as well as numerous other Mastercraft models from 2001-2006), replacing the hard tank in the rear locker with a larger capacity bag is a very common upgrade, in fact we even offer our turn key Mastercraft TankBuster Kit (http://www.wakemakers.com/mastercraft-tankbuster-ballst-system-upgrade.html) that includes everything you need. There are numerous advantages to running bags instead of the factory tanks, which include increased capacity and increased storage (when the bag is empty you can use the entire locker).

So that's a very worthwhile upgrade that A LOT of people do. What we were talking about earlier in the thread is removing the hard tank that is installed beneath the floor on some models to replace that volume with a larger capacity bag that completely fills the compartment. That is much, much, much less common.

CantRepeat
01-20-2011, 01:35 PM
Wow, I never knew there were hard tanks in MCs that were above the floor. Now I understand why so many people were posting about removing the hard tanks and putting in a large sac.

jason@wakemakers.com
01-20-2011, 01:46 PM
Yep, pretty crazy huh? The 2002-1-2002 X-Star, 2003-2005 X2, 2001-2003 X10, 2001-2003 X30 and the 2006-2011 X1 all had/have 250 pound hard tanks installed in the rear lockers.

kevkan
01-20-2011, 08:21 PM
Thanks for the help. I see a tankbuster in my spring plans.

mccobmd: Is your surf wake satisfactory? My boat is primarily used for wakeboarding, but I do want to be able to surf as well, with 4 or 5 people in boat.

CantRepeat
01-21-2011, 10:09 AM
Does anyone happen to know the size of the stock hard tanks in an 06 X30?

ddanenberger
01-21-2011, 10:20 AM
I have a dumb question, I just bought a '11 x-25 which has greater capability the my preivious I/O's.

With all of the upgrades that over weight the boat, how do you not get caught. The boat has to be sqatting in the water. With city police, state police, lake security, and DNR making safety stops, this seems like a easy ticket. I understand the larger wakes, but do you get stopped?

KnoxX2
01-21-2011, 10:53 AM
I have never been stoped for that. Other things maybe!

KnoxX2
01-21-2011, 11:29 AM
Depends on if you primarily want to wakeboard or surf. If you want to wakeboard then do what I did and remove the hard tanks and put 750's in the back, an integrated bow sac up front with kgb. I were only going to surf I would put an Enzo sac in the port rear and under the seats to maximize that side with a v drive sac in front storage on the port side. Problem with the enzo sac is you can't even it out for wakeboarding because even partially filled some goes up under the side seat. I have the 06 X1 and didn't think there was room for a full 400 with the hard tanks still in place.

One thing that could be done is to have a bag made that fits in front of your 750 bag. That way when you want to surf you could fill the other bag and go. One thing you could do is fill off of the vent hose of your 750 bag. You would just need to put a manual valve in between the two bags. This would fix the problem of keeping the weight from moving FWD when you dont want it to.

CantRepeat
01-21-2011, 07:07 PM
BTW: What is the size of your manifold inlet line?

prostar205
01-21-2011, 09:08 PM
BTW: What is the size of your manifold inlet line?

The inlet ID on my 2002 X30's factory ballast is 1".

CantRepeat
01-21-2011, 11:29 PM
The inlet ID on my 2002 X30's factory ballast is 1".

I think that might be the issue. I think my inlet is 3 inch on my X30. I'll photo it tomorrow.

prostar205
01-23-2011, 11:00 AM
I think that might be the issue. I think my inlet is 3 inch on my X30. I'll photo it tomorrow.

Did you get a chance to measure the inlet hose going to your manifold? I would be surprised if it was 3". My guess is its probably 1.25"-1.5". No matter what, I'm still taking the that POS manifold out and feeding each ballast pump through it's own thru-hull inlet and draining through that same fitting.

KnoxX2
01-23-2011, 12:22 PM
Why use the manifold? Why not have each pump fill and drain through their own through hull fitting. This is how I have mine set up and I love it. I can fill one side while I am draining another!

CantRepeat
01-23-2011, 01:25 PM
Did you get a chance to measure the inlet hose going to your manifold? I would be surprised if it was 3". My guess is its probably 1.25"-1.5". No matter what, I'm still taking the that POS manifold out and feeding each ballast pump through it's own thru-hull inlet and draining through that same fitting.

Here it is. As you can see the main fill line is 2 if not 3 times the size as the pump lines.

http://www.mikesell.net/images/boat/pump4.jpg

And I agree, if you are willing to drill the inlets you can't beat seperate feeds for each pump.

BTW: when working with new hose heat the ends up with a heat gun or some hot water. They go on soooo much easier.

prostar205
01-23-2011, 02:57 PM
Here it is. As you can see the main fill line is 2 if not 3 times the size as the pump lines.

http://www.mikesell.net/images/boat/pump4.jpg

And I agree, if you are willing to drill the inlets you can't beat seperate feeds for each pump.

BTW: when working with new hose heat the ends up with a heat gun or some hot water. They go on soooo much easier.

Thanks for the picture.

I see 2 main differences between my setup (2002) and yours (2006). Your manifold is huge compared to mine and the inlet hose is (as you state) 2x to 3x the size of mine. All leading to my fill problems. I have no room to add a bigger manifold in my boat thanks in parts to the L-18 motor taking up 110% of the room in the engine compartment. I am going to drill 2 more holes in the bottom of the boat.

CantRepeat
01-23-2011, 03:07 PM
Yeah when I saw yours I was trying to figure out who the engineer was on that. How is a line the same size as the 3 pump lines supposed to flow enough water to keep them supplied? The manifold would have to be 3/4 the size of one of your tanks and full before you turned on two of your pumps and still probably would run dry before they filled up.

I finally finished plumbing for my custom surf sac, it's a monster in the locker. I wish I knew how big my hard tank was.

KnoxX2
01-24-2011, 01:02 AM
trust me you will not be sorry you drilled the extra holes. Separate fill pick ups are the way to go. Now the question is where to put them?

prostar205
01-24-2011, 02:03 AM
There will be pictures pretty soon.

jason@wakemakers.com
01-24-2011, 07:54 PM
Even with the larger manifold of the later model boats you'll still run into volume issues with all pumps running at the same time. It was a poor design that wasn't well tested (unfortunately).

Individual intakes for each pump is the way to go, and it's actually cheaper than the larger volume hardware.

G-Star
01-24-2011, 08:11 PM
I'm very interested to see how this goes.

I just bought the 750lb tankbuster kit and an IBS for my '02 X-Star. Aside from my port pump seeming to be a bit ill, I was hoping that filling the larger bags wouldn't be an issue... sounds like that isn't the case? Is it really that bad with the factory intake and manifold?

I don't think I really like the idea of punching more holes in my hull :eek:

jason@wakemakers.com
01-24-2011, 08:14 PM
Everyone has a different definition of slow based on how they use the boat, and what their previous experiences are.

You can pretty easily extrapolate how long it's going to take to fill your additional ballast, as the rear bags our almost exactly three times the capacity of the stock tank, so just multiple your current fill times by a factor of three (there are some pumping losses that come into play the fuller the bag gets, but they're pretty minimal).

Also, make sure you've upgraded the impellers in your pumps to the Green Nitrile Jabsco Impeller (http://www.wakemakers.com/jabsco-ballast-puppy-green-neoprene-impeller.html), as they are even more important when you're filling additional ballast.

G-Star
01-24-2011, 09:29 PM
Everyone has a different definition of slow based on how they use the boat, and what their previous experiences are.

You can pretty easily extrapolate how long it's going to take to fill your additional ballast, as the rear bags our almost exactly three times the capacity of the stock tank, so just multiple your current fill times by a factor of three (there are some pumping losses that come into play the fuller the bag gets, but they're pretty minimal).

Also, make sure you've upgraded the impellers in your pumps to the Green Nitrile Jabsco Impeller (http://www.wakemakers.com/jabsco-ballast-puppy-green-neoprene-impeller.html), as they are even more important when you're filling additional ballast.

Thanks for the info. Right now I have the yellow impellers in all 3 pumps. They've only been used a couple times, but maybe I should upgrade to the green anyways? I should probably buy a new pump at the same time since I think my port pump is dying (probably from water dripping out of the pump head).

If I do replace my port pump, is it possible to rebuild the old port pump motor and keep it as a spare? Are there any serviceable pieces in these motors?

Thanks again!

CantRepeat
01-24-2011, 09:44 PM
Thanks for the info. Right now I have the yellow impellers in all 3 pumps. They've only been used a couple times, but maybe I should upgrade to the green anyways? I should probably buy a new pump at the same time since I think my port pump is dying (probably from water dripping out of the pump head).

If I do replace my port pump, is it possible to rebuild the old port pump motor and keep it as a spare? Are there any serviceable pieces in these motors?

Thanks again!

I moved my port pump to the starboard side so could test my system.

I then took the old pump to an electical motor shop and ask about rewinding the motor. They quoted me $420 to rewind the motor. I didn't check anyone else as to the price of reworking the motor. At $219 for a new pump that comes with a green impeller it seemed a no brainer.

If I ever end up adding a pump, say for more port side bags, I will for sure add a new intake to feed it.

At this point, I could have both the KGB and the port pump running at the same time and not run short on water supply. I don't know about running all 3 at the same time. In spring I'll be able to tell you.

mccobmd
01-25-2011, 12:04 AM
I'm very interested to see how this goes.

I just bought the 750lb tankbuster kit and an IBS for my '02 X-Star. Aside from my port pump seeming to be a bit ill, I was hoping that filling the larger bags wouldn't be an issue... sounds like that isn't the case? Is it really that bad with the factory intake and manifold?

I don't think I really like the idea of punching more holes in my hull :eek:

I have an 06 X2 with factory pumps and intakes, it will fill a 750 in about 6 minutes, plenty fast enough for me.

jason@wakemakers.com
01-25-2011, 03:10 PM
Yep, for most people it's more than fast enough. One thing to be aware of with that system though is that the speed will depend on how many tanks/bags you're filling at a time due to the common manifold design.

G-Star
01-25-2011, 03:18 PM
I bet it'll fill a whole lot faster while cruising at 16mph :)

I'll give it a try in the spring and see if I can live with what I've got.

hutchej
01-27-2011, 01:40 AM
Is there a diagram for how the 2003 X9 ballast system is laid out? We have one fat sack under the rear seat and one just ahead and beside of the drivers seat. We're looking to get a better surfing wave out of the boat, any recommendations?

CantRepeat
01-27-2011, 07:15 AM
Is there a diagram for how the 2003 X9 ballast system is laid out? We have one fat sack under the rear seat and one just ahead and beside of the drivers seat. We're looking to get a better surfing wave out of the boat, any recommendations?

Well, from everything I've read and been told you really want to weight one side of the boat, even in the back. So if you have the rear sac all the way in the back running the entire length of the rear back seat you might want to trun it long ways so it's just on the side you are going to be surfing on.

If I put any weight in the front part of my 92 it just washed the wave out. It seem to work best with every on the port side and a few adults sitting in the back mostly on the port.

ColdTurkey
01-27-2011, 05:09 PM
Hey Jason, I've just had a quick browse around your site but didn't find what I was looking for. Do you make custom sacs?

jason@wakemakers.com
01-31-2011, 07:33 PM
Is there a diagram for how the 2003 X9 ballast system is laid out? We have one fat sack under the rear seat and one just ahead and beside of the drivers seat. We're looking to get a better surfing wave out of the boat, any recommendations?
Setting a boat up for surfing is pretty independent of the make and model (with some exceptions). You want to start off with 700-1000 pounds of weight in the rear corner of the boat on the side you're surfing on, and then add additional weight moving forward towards the bow from there. That's just a general starting point, and you can obviously get into much more specific recommendations based on the actual make and mode of boat, but it works very well for most applications.

Your factory system is a good starting point, but you'll probably want at least one other bag in the boat. I would recommend something like Fly High's Fat Sac that you can fill up in front of the rear seat on the side you're surfing on.

Hey Jason, I've just had a quick browse around your site but didn't find what I was looking for. Do you make custom sacs?
Yep, we sure do, and you can find out all of the info on our Custom Fat Sac (http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-custom-ballast-bag.html) page.

prostar205
01-31-2011, 09:07 PM
Pictures should be coming early next week. Even I can't wait to see them.

ColdTurkey
01-31-2011, 09:24 PM
Yep, we sure do, and you can find out all of the info on our Custom Fat Sac (http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-custom-ballast-bag.html) page.

Cool, have you ever done an X80? I'm wanting 2 sacs for the bow, 1 centre sac and 1 for above the factory port side hard tank. Just wondering if you've already made some to fit for someone or if I'd need to measure it all up myself?

Cheers.

jason@wakemakers.com
02-04-2011, 06:58 PM
Pictures should be coming early next week. Even I can't wait to see them.
Even you can't wait to see them? You waiting to get some film developed or something? :D
Cool, have you ever done an X80? I'm wanting 2 sacs for the bow, 1 centre sac and 1 for above the factory port side hard tank. Just wondering if you've already made some to fit for someone or if I'd need to measure it all up myself?

Cheers.
Unfortunately the X80 is just about the only late model Mastercraft we don't have dimensions for, so we'd need you to provide them. Chances are we can find an off the shelf bag that works for most of those locations though, so it shouldn't take five totally custom bags to get what you're looking for. Shoot us an email if you want more info, or when you have a chance to pull some measurements and we'll get going on it.

FourFourty
02-04-2011, 07:39 PM
Unfortunately the X80 is just about the only late model Mastercraft we don't have dimensions for.

Do you have them for the X25??

Edit- NM I looked again, and you do.

prostar205
02-04-2011, 08:12 PM
[QUOTE=jason@wakemakers.com;730737]Even you can't wait to see them? You waiting to get some film developed or something? :D

I should have pics this upcoming week. I've been on the east coast traveling for work and haven't been around. I need to check in with the people doing the install to get an update.

jason@wakemakers.com
02-24-2011, 07:36 PM
Any updates?

prostar205
02-24-2011, 07:39 PM
Soon Jason. Probably the end of next week. Along with the ballast upgrade, I'm adding the 2011 MasterCraft Attitude Adjustment Plate and underwater LEDs. The plate has been rather difficult to get it to fit and work right with the gauge and control box but we're getting it and it will be done right. The person doing the install is taking his time and doing a great job. This weekend we are mapping out where to place the 2 new intakes for the ballast pumps.

ColdTurkey
03-09-2011, 05:38 PM
http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss99/BoganDave/Bump.gif

Any pics yet?

SWeaver
03-09-2011, 06:50 PM
What size thru hulls are you using, and is there a specific drill bit or any other hull drilling tips you can pass along?

prostar205
03-09-2011, 07:54 PM
http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss99/BoganDave/Bump.gif

Any pics yet?

No pics yet. Still in the shop waiting for the last part for the 2011 Attitude Adjustment Plate install. I should have it back by the end of next week.

prostar205
03-09-2011, 07:55 PM
What size thru hulls are you using, and is there a specific drill bit or any other hull drilling tips you can pass along?

The thru hull size is 1.25". I am not doing the drilling so I wouldn't be able to pass on any tips.

ColdTurkey
03-09-2011, 08:03 PM
Yeah I'd be keen to know how to fit a thru hull too. Maybe you could go spy on them while they're doing it? :)

jason@wakemakers.com
03-22-2011, 11:53 PM
Sorry I didn't see these posts early, we've got a walkthrough of how to install thru-hull fittings on our blog: How To: Install Thru-hull Intake Fittings (http://media.wakemakers.com/2011/03/how-to-drill-fiberglass-and-install-thru-hull-fittings/)

Let me know if you have any questions.

ColdTurkey
03-23-2011, 05:55 PM
Cheers for the link.

jason@wakemakers.com
03-23-2011, 06:01 PM
No problem.

prostar205
03-25-2011, 09:21 PM
OK - got the boat back from my installer. He did an awesome job. Here are some pictures showing where he installed the 2 new ballast pump intakes. I'll get better pictures soon.

prostar205
04-01-2011, 01:44 AM
I'm thinking of not using the 90 degree elbows and come directly off each thru hull fitting with a 1" hose directly to each pump. Don't know if there is enough room in the engine compartment to make the necessary bend of the hoses to get to each pump. Anyone try this? My thought pattern is that eliminating as many of the restrictions and/or turns and have a direct route for the water to go into the better flow I'm going to get.

sand2snow22
04-01-2011, 01:52 AM
Who did the install?

prostar205
04-01-2011, 01:18 PM
My installer, Divine Marine (www.divinemarine.com) did the install of the thru-hull fittings. I have doing the remainder of the installation including; 90 deg ball valves, hoses to each ballast pumps, re-install the ballast pumps with impeller on bottom and motor on top, then routing hoses to each bag. More pictures shortly.

jason@wakemakers.com
04-01-2011, 04:39 PM
I'm thinking of not using the 90 degree elbows and come directly off each thru hull fitting with a 1" hose directly to each pump. Don't know if there is enough room in the engine compartment to make the necessary bend of the hoses to get to each pump. Anyone try this? My thought pattern is that eliminating as many of the restrictions and/or turns and have a direct route for the water to go into the better flow I'm going to get.
It may be tight based on where you thru-hulls are installed, but if you have enough vertical height that's definitely the best way to set it up. If you do need to turn everything 90 degrees you want to use a street elbow, and not a regular 90, as it will support much higher speeds.

My installer, Divine Marine (www.divinemarine.com) did the install of the thru-hull fittings. I have doing the remainder of the installation including; 90 deg ball valves, hoses to each ballast pumps, re-install the ballast pumps with impeller on bottom and motor on top, then routing hoses to each bag. More pictures shortly.
So I take it based on your comment about the ball valves that you're going to be replacing the PVC parts in the boat with bronze?

prostar205
04-01-2011, 08:03 PM
So I take it based on your comment about the ball valves that you're going to be replacing the PVC parts in the boat with bronze?

Jason - my plan is to use the PVC ball valves since that is what the factory used originally and I've never had an issue with it. Should I be alarmed?

CantRepeat
04-01-2011, 08:18 PM
You know I just got an idea.


Get some flat stock, stainless or aluminum and bend a 90 at a better radius then the PVC 90s and weld some 1 inch hoops at both ends and maybe one in the middle. Then you route the hose through it and get better flow then the PVC 90s and still route it better.

jason@wakemakers.com
04-05-2011, 10:12 PM
Jason - my plan is to use the PVC ball valves since that is what the factory used originally and I've never had an issue with it. Should I be alarmed?

It's personal preference, but the whole point of that shut-off is in case of an emergency, so you don't sink the boat. What happens if the plastic elbow or the ball valve itself breaks, especially since PVC has a tendency to become brittle when exposed to heat?

Just because the factory did it doesn't mean it's right, I mean they're the ones that installed the manifold that you're going to a lot of trouble to remove. :D

Seems pretty risky to me given the correct parts cost < $100 and the boat is $40,000-50,000+.

(Also, to meet current NMMA and USCG requirements all thru-hulls below the waterline must be topped with a bronze ball-valve).

prostar205
04-06-2011, 12:09 AM
Jason - did you get my email? We'll talk tomorrow.

jason@wakemakers.com
04-06-2011, 12:55 PM
Yep, got it and replied, you should be all set, but if you have any questions just let me know.

prostar205
05-08-2011, 02:11 AM
The ballast makeover is COMPLETE. I just spent the better part of the afternoon plumming the lines and re-installing the pumps. Here are some pics.

I started out using pvc 90 deg. street elbows and 90 deg ball valves and ended changing them for the brass versions after talking to the guys at Wakemakers.

prostar205
05-08-2011, 02:12 AM
Here are more pics.

prostar205
05-08-2011, 02:14 AM
Lastly, since my ballast system will now be filling and draining from the thru-hull fitting on the bottom of the boat, I did not need the drain line out the side that came with the boat. However, you need to plug this thru-hull opening so water doesn't find it's way in. Here are some pics on how I did that. The other line you see in these pictures is the vent hose for the 750lb bag in each locker next to the engine.

CantRepeat
05-08-2011, 08:02 AM
Was your old system all 3/4 inch hose? I ask because I see that one hose is 3/4.

prostar205
05-08-2011, 12:08 PM
Yes, the original system was all 3/4". It is now all 1" tubing except for the vent tubing you see in the picture. I didn't see any reason for changing that line.

SpryBeast
05-08-2011, 12:32 PM
Looks great. See you installed the valves first and then the street elbows... did mine the opposite but from the pics it looks like your way might have worked better.

Also, what's the grey piece in the vent line in the top pic of post #85?

Jeff d
05-08-2011, 02:58 PM
What did that custom center locker sac cost you?

I have an '00 Maristar 230 and the ski locker could hold a lot more than the typical tube sacs offered. I assume your locker is the same size so what were the dimensions of the sac?

CantRepeat
05-08-2011, 09:39 PM
Elbow number two looks like the hose goes right over the rudder cable. I'd cycle the steering while looking at the hose to make sure it does not contact the rudder arm.

I've got some photos of a through hull I did that I'll post soon.

I really want to hear your feedback on the make over. Fill times and what not.

prostar205
05-08-2011, 10:35 PM
Looks great. See you installed the valves first and then the street elbows... did mine the opposite but from the pics it looks like your way might have worked better.

Also, what's the grey piece in the vent line in the top pic of post #85?

That line is the vent line for each sac and the grey piece is a union where I used to have a one-way valve in that line so as not to allow air to get into the sac. I turned out that the pressure required open the valve was too great and the sac would not "exhail" air as it was filling so I took the valves out.

prostar205
05-08-2011, 10:38 PM
What did that custom center locker sac cost you?

I have an '00 Maristar 230 and the ski locker could hold a lot more than the typical tube sacs offered. I assume your locker is the same size so what were the dimensions of the sac?

Jeff - I do have a custom center ski locker sac that I designed and had Fly High build for me. I figure it holds close to 500 lbs of water. I have the dimensions of the sac on my work computer. I can get that for you tomorrow. I think it cost me $300 about 3-4 years ago.

prostar205
05-08-2011, 10:42 PM
Elbow number two looks like the hose goes right over the rudder cable. I'd cycle the steering while looking at the hose to make sure it does not contact the rudder arm.

I've got some photos of a through hull I did that I'll post soon.

I really want to hear your feedback on the make over. Fill times and what not.

I hear you on the potential interference with the rudder arm. I made sure none of the hoses got in the way of the steering mechanism. I will cycle the rudder several times to double check.

I'd really like to see some pictures when you get a chance to post them.

I too am very excited to do some testing to see the fill and drain times.

CantRepeat
05-08-2011, 10:59 PM
I hear you on the potential interference with the rudder arm. I made sure none of the hoses got in the way of the steering mechanism. I will cycle the rudder several times to double check.

I'd really like to see some pictures when you get a chance to post them.

I too am very excited to do some testing to see the fill and drain times.

I'm going to do a post on making a surf wake with sub task that I hope will help some TT members.

Drilling a through hull has some nuances but there are ways to make it less daunting.

jason@wakemakers.com
05-09-2011, 08:17 PM
Nice job on the install, I can't wait to hear your impressions of the improvement on the water. We've done a few of these upgrades now and people absolutely love them!

We do have check valves that are zero cracking pressure if you want to make sure your vent line is completely closed during draining without impacting filling at all.

The center locker location on that generation boat is 80"L x 10"W x 10"H. We have made a few custom bags for this application, so we do have the template on file. Total capacity for this bag is 300 pounds, which is limited by the volume of the locker, so unless you go to something more dense than water you're not going to get any additional weight in there. We do also have a handful of left over OEM bags if someone is interested in a factory replacement.

I'm not sure if I posted it in this thread or not, but we have a guide on how to install thru-hulls (http://media.wakemakers.com/2011/03/how-to-drill-fiberglass-and-install-thru-hull-fittings/) on our blog, in case anyone else is facing that challenge and has questions.

CantRepeat
05-09-2011, 09:29 PM
Nice job on the install, I can't wait to hear your impressions of the improvement on the water. We've done a few of these upgrades now and people absolutely love them!

We do have check valves that are zero cracking pressure if you want to make sure your vent line is completely closed during draining without impacting filling at all.

The center locker location on that generation boat is 80"L x 10"W x 10"H. We have made a few custom bags for this application, so we do have the template on file. Total capacity for this bag is 300 pounds, which is limited by the volume of the locker, so unless you go to something more dense than water you're not going to get any additional weight in there. We do also have a handful of left over OEM bags if someone is interested in a factory replacement.

I'm not sure if I posted it in this thread or not, but we have a guide on how to install thru-hulls (http://media.wakemakers.com/2011/03/how-to-drill-fiberglass-and-install-thru-hull-fittings/) on our blog, in case anyone else is facing that challenge and has questions.

Jason,

I was going to reference your blog for sure. The part about drilling the pilot hole before you commit to the hole saw was spot on. After I drill the pilot hole, I could see that moving the location of the through hull was needed. So, moving my hole saw over but including the initial pilot hole in the final drill work out rather well.

I'm pretty excited about the rework on my surf wake. Can't wait to get that new sac from you! Thanks for getting the anchor points added! ;)

prostar205
05-10-2011, 01:49 PM
Nice job on the install, I can't wait to hear your impressions of the improvement on the water. We've done a few of these upgrades now and people absolutely love them!

We do have check valves that are zero cracking pressure if you want to make sure your vent line is completely closed during draining without impacting filling at all.

The center locker location on that generation boat is 80"L x 10"W x 10"H. We have made a few custom bags for this application, so we do have the template on file. Total capacity for this bag is 300 pounds, which is limited by the volume of the locker, so unless you go to something more dense than water you're not going to get any additional weight in there. We do also have a handful of left over OEM bags if someone is interested in a factory replacement.

I'm not sure if I posted it in this thread or not, but we have a guide on how to install thru-hulls (http://media.wakemakers.com/2011/03/how-to-drill-fiberglass-and-install-thru-hull-fittings/) on our blog, in case anyone else is facing that challenge and has questions.

Thanks Jason.

I just checked the dimensions on the order form for my customer cener ski locker sac and its 78" long x 14" wide x 18" tall. It fits like a glove.

Can you put a link to the zero cracking pressure check valves on here? Is there really a need or benefit to adding check valves to the vent lines?

prostar205
07-13-2011, 03:36 AM
Nice job on the install, I can't wait to hear your impressions of the improvement on the water. We've done a few of these upgrades now and people absolutely love them!

We do have check valves that are zero cracking pressure if you want to make sure your vent line is completely closed during draining without impacting filling at all.

The center locker location on that generation boat is 80"L x 10"W x 10"H. We have made a few custom bags for this application, so we do have the template on file. Total capacity for this bag is 300 pounds, which is limited by the volume of the locker, so unless you go to something more dense than water you're not going to get any additional weight in there. We do also have a handful of left over OEM bags if someone is interested in a factory replacement.

I'm not sure if I posted it in this thread or not, but we have a guide on how to install thru-hulls (http://media.wakemakers.com/2011/03/how-to-drill-fiberglass-and-install-thru-hull-fittings/) on our blog, in case anyone else is facing that challenge and has questions.

Fill times are now running slightly less than 10 minutes to fill roughly 2,000 lbs of ballast. I couldn't be happier with the set up. It drains even fast than that.