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79_SnS_atl
01-16-2011, 04:39 PM
Does anyone know of a fuel injection conversion kit made for the late 70's, early 80's Ford 351W motors?

I spent most of my summer battling the settings and floats trying to tweak that darn Holley 650 at idle and got nowhere consistent in the performance. Some times it runs well at idle and other times not so much. I would like to just hit the key and have it run normal.

Does anyone else have a solution if there is not a conversion for this year?

thatsmrmastercraft
01-16-2011, 04:46 PM
Summit Racing and Jeggs sell fuel injection from Edelbrock, Holley and perhaps some others. Not sure if any of them are aimed at the marine environment.

http://www.summitracing.com/
http://www.jegs.com/

89BigBlock
01-16-2011, 04:56 PM
I think holleyefi.com has something for marine. Let everyone know with gas prices poised to go up again, all of us carb guys are looking into fuel savings.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-16-2011, 05:22 PM
Holley Marine Pro-Jection TBI Systems

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-700-21/

Edelbrock PRO-TUNER EFI SYSTEMS
FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE STREET, STRIP OR MARINE

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/pt_intro.shtml

Cloaked
01-16-2011, 05:26 PM
Does anyone know of a fuel injection conversion kit made for the late 70's, early 80's Ford 351W motors?

I spent most of my summer battling the settings and floats trying to tweak that darn Holley 650 at idle and got nowhere consistent in the performance. Some times it runs well at idle and other times not so much. I would like to just hit the key and have it run normal.

Does anyone else have a solution if there is not a conversion for this year?Have you converted to the electronic ignition?

I do not know of any EFI for the combination you have inqured, however that doesn't mean it is not available. I have fooled with these things for a good while. Best I can tell you is that if your carb is the original or has a lot of wear on it, I'd put a new Holley 650 on it, convert the ignition, and adjust the carb as prescribed by Holley, as well as making sure your timing is spot on. I can say that I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the smooth running engine. A new coil, fresh plugs and wires will also serve well on a refreshed system. Make sure you have the 1" riser plate under the carb too. And the electric choke also requires proper setting in conjunction with the other tweaks. The Holley is not a bad carb, just a bit contrary from time to time.

I know it is frustrating to have carb issues, so for the cost of a new carb (less than $500 direct from Holley's site) and the assurance that you have tweaked it properly, I'd say that is money well spent.

CantRepeat
01-16-2011, 05:58 PM
I almost purchased the Edelbrock kit. The only issue you will have is modifying your exhaust to keep the O2 sensor dry. I sent an email to the Edelbrock tech guys asking about it and they sent me a semi generic diagram on modifying a boat exhaust to work.

east tx skier
01-16-2011, 07:04 PM
You might check some of the CC forums to see if anyone has the components for the old GT-40 motors. ICBW, but I recall reading that they used the same or similar components to the Mustang on the GT-40.

EFI Fords are pretty amazing.

Here's mine. :)

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1gl9obJSimU/Sl3oTW2nnWI/AAAAAAAACXo/ljyqpPuQP-Y/GT40.jpg

CantRepeat
01-16-2011, 08:12 PM
Where is your O2 sensor plumbed, East TX?

thatsmrmastercraft
01-16-2011, 08:17 PM
You might check some of the CC forums to see if anyone has the components for the old GT-40 motors. ICBW, but I recall reading that they used the same or similar components to the Mustang on the GT-40.

EFI Fords are pretty amazing.

Here's mine. :)

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1gl9obJSimU/Sl3oTW2nnWI/AAAAAAAACXo/ljyqpPuQP-Y/GT40.jpg

I have serious engine envy. :cool:

psychobilly
01-16-2011, 08:21 PM
You might check some of the CC forums to see if anyone has the components for the old GT-40 motors. ICBW, but I recall reading that they used the same or similar components to the Mustang on the GT-40.

EFI Fords are pretty amazing.

Here's mine. :)

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1gl9obJSimU/Sl3oTW2nnWI/AAAAAAAACXo/ljyqpPuQP-Y/GT40.jpg

DUDE!!! That motor is CLEAN!!!! The only thing I see is that alternator bracket.... ;-) I'm definatly gunna paint the new one I built for mine when I get home!!! hehehe


SWEATTTTTT

Skipper
01-16-2011, 09:22 PM
Does anyone know of a fuel injection conversion kit made for the late 70's, early 80's Ford 351W motors?

I spent most of my summer battling the settings and floats trying to tweak that darn Holley 650 at idle and got nowhere consistent in the performance. Some times it runs well at idle and other times not so much. I would like to just hit the key and have it run normal.

Does anyone else have a solution if there is not a conversion for this year?

I had an '87 351W with carb in my previous boat. The carb was problematic for years. First, I paid a lot for a sub-standard carb rebuild. Then I paid a lot for a good carb rebuild. That lasted a few years. But it was acting up again and I rebuilt it. Ran great but sometimes after turning it off hot it was difficult to restart.

I looked into a fuel injection conversion. But they are a thousand dollars or more. Here is what I deduced: The boat was more than 20 years old. Buying a new carb for between four and six hundred bucks would give it at 20 years more life and would be very trouble free for the first couple years (provided that it was taken care of properly).

My advice. Buy a new carb. Not rebuilt, new.

east tx skier
01-16-2011, 10:04 PM
Always the advise I was given on the subject. My new 4160 ran like a dream. Keep that fuel stabilized if you aren't running it through often and try to run the engine a couple of times during the winter if you can.

Off to paint my alternator bracket. ;)

sethro
01-17-2011, 02:37 PM
I'll second what east tx skier said...the new 4160 BrianM put on the 85 I bought from him ran like a dream. My friend with an 84 FINALLY gave in and bought a new 4160 after years of rebuilds and "sketchy" performance. Now his runs like a dream too.

Oh, and my other friend with his 78...he still insists on rebuilds and adjustments, and he's got well over the cost of a new 4160 in his old carb and the "new to him" used carb he bought. He'll see the light some day. :D

03geetee
01-17-2011, 03:48 PM
Pretty much sums it up...

The carb/ignition is the brain of the engine and the cam decides the power band. Keep any carb in perfect working order and your timing spot on and ANY motor will run like a dream with all things considered equal. You could have a tired old motor but if you have good ignition/proper air fuel mix with no other mechanical issues then it will run just fine it just wont make tons of power.

4160 on my 83 is running perfect, motor has 2700+ hrs on it and this is only the second carb about 2 years old based on the previous owners info and reciept.

Stick with the carb and like others have said learn to adjust a carb off a new unit otherwise learning off a unit you think is good is useless and frustrating.

JTR

Slinkyredfoot
01-17-2011, 05:50 PM
This may be a stupid question but how does one know if the carb is a 4160? I have the original carb on my 79 351. Over the last couple of years the engine has become tempermental, stalling at idle primarily after the engine is at operating temps. Good friend, and excellent boat guy still maintains it is the fuel from gas pump with ethanol. Never had a rebuild on the carb but really undecided at this point on what to do. Any suggestions?

east tx skier
01-17-2011, 06:35 PM
This may be a stupid question but how does one know if the carb is a 4160? I have the original carb on my 79 351. Over the last couple of years the engine has become tempermental, stalling at idle primarily after the engine is at operating temps. Good friend, and excellent boat guy still maintains it is the fuel from gas pump with ethanol. Never had a rebuild on the carb but really undecided at this point on what to do. Any suggestions?

If it is the original carb, my money is on it being the 4160.

sethro
01-17-2011, 06:49 PM
My guess would be 4010 for original...somewhere there is a thread with a picture side by side to see the difference. I can't find it though.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-17-2011, 06:59 PM
Top picture is a 4160, bottom is a 4010. The 4160 has a single fuel inlet, the 4010 has a dual fuel inlet. Whichever carb you have, if is more than 10 years old it is in need of a rebuild or replacement. If you have a 4010 (probably not) you should replace it with a 4160. If you have any carb rebuilding experience is a very simple carb to work on. If you aren't experienced with working on carbs, I would buy a new 4160. The few extra bucks with pay for simplicity in getting back under way. Rebuilt carbs can come with some tuning needs that can be overwhelming if you don't know what you are doing.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-17-2011, 07:01 PM
As I recall, the 4010 came on the 351 HO only, and I don't think that was available until sometime in the early 1980's.

Slinkyredfoot
01-17-2011, 07:10 PM
Top picture is a 4160, bottom is a 4010. The 4160 has a single fuel inlet, the 4010 has a dual fuel inlet. Whichever carb you have, if is more than 10 years old it is in need of a rebuild or replacement. If you have a 4010 (probably not) you should replace it with a 4160. If you have any carb rebuilding experience is a very simple carb to work on. If you aren't experienced with working on carbs, I would buy a new 4160. The few extra bucks with pay for simplicity in getting back under way. Rebuilt carbs can come with some tuning needs that can be overwhelming if you don't know what you are doing.

Well I know we are getting away from the original thread topic, fuel injection, but based on the pics I definitely got a 4160. I know carburators are a fairly simple in rebuilding, but as someone posted earlier they experienced a bad rebuild.

Since mine has never be touched over the years, what should you look for in a quality rebuild and would it seem advisable with the issues I am having? I really do not know what else to do with the problem I am having, have tried virtually everything to solve my problem

east tx skier
01-17-2011, 07:45 PM
As I recall, the 4010 came on the 351 HO only, and I don't think that was available until sometime in the early 1980's.

351 HO in 1992 and 1993.

1redTA
01-17-2011, 07:55 PM
I think "upgrading" to fuel injection from a carb is cool. Doing it to save money for gas cost over a good carb will take a life time of usage to become cost effective.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-17-2011, 08:29 PM
351 HO in 1992 and 1993.

Thanks for the correction...........looks like I fat-fingered the keyboard again. :D

thatsmrmastercraft
01-17-2011, 08:53 PM
This may be a stupid question but how does one know if the carb is a 4160? I have the original carb on my 79 351. Over the last couple of years the engine has become tempermental, stalling at idle primarily after the engine is at operating temps. Good friend, and excellent boat guy still maintains it is the fuel from gas pump with ethanol. Never had a rebuild on the carb but really undecided at this point on what to do. Any suggestions?

Stalling at idle when the boat is fully warmed up could result from a handful of possibilities some, but not all carb related. Whenever I am faced with an engine not running properly issue, I go first to the dist cap, rotor and spark plugs. All cheap items and should be replaced often to avoid issues. I replace mine every spring. Plug wires are another thing that typically don't get replaced enough - 5 years is good here. Same for the coil. If you still have points its time for electronic ignition and an updated coil. This can be done for about $100 if you shop carefully. Remember to upgrade to good wires with the ign. upgrade if you don't already have good wires. Good quality fuel filters are important. Replacing all the fuel line and the in tank filter should be done on a boat of this vintage. Fuel can play a big issue. I always treat mine with Marine Stabil or similar year round. You could try running on non-ethanol fuel for a while to see it that is the problem- if it is available near you.

Now the carb: As far as a rebuild goes, using the correct Holley Marine kit is important. None of them are expensive no matter what. I always upgrade to the blue bowl gaskets because they are reusable. Replace the float- even if it seems OK- another small price to pay. When the carb gets disassembled it needs to soak in a carb cleaning solution with an agitator. Just soaking in a bucket won't always do the job properly. Reassembly and adjustments are simple. Fine tuning adjustments on the boat are sometimes a little frustrating if you don't know what you are doing. Replace the choke spring and adjust accordingly. Base idle speed being too low will sometimes cause a full operating temp. stall.

With all the things that go into a good carb rebuild, unless you know someone who is qualified, you are likely better off buying new. If you want to do the work yourself, I would be happy to walk you through it and help resolve any issues you come across.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-17-2011, 08:55 PM
I think "upgrading" to fuel injection from a carb is cool. Doing it to save money for gas cost over a good carb will take a life time of usage to become cost effective.

I agree, but you also get greater ease of use. Pretty much just hop in and go. All at a price.:cool:

TRBenj
01-20-2011, 09:48 AM
I spent most of my summer battling the settings and floats trying to tweak that darn Holley 650 at idle and got nowhere consistent in the performance. Some times it runs well at idle and other times not so much. I would like to just hit the key and have it run normal.
No offense, but if youre incapable of dialing in a carb, there is absolutely no way youre going to be able to retrofit an EFI conversion and get it running properly. That is a very tricky project that has been tried many, many times- and I have only seen one boat running properly with the EFI set up afterwards. Everyone else abandoned the project and went back to a carb.

If your intent is to go skiing rather than work on your boat, I would highly recommend either A) buying a boat that came with EFI from the factory, or B) buying a new carb.

A properly dialed in carb should start easy, idle beautifully and perform wonderfully. I have carb'd boats that start and run 99% as good as EFI boats. If youre incapable of getting the carb dialed in, find someone who can tune it for you. You'll save money and headache in the long run!

ahhudgins
01-20-2011, 10:33 AM
No offense, but if youre incapable of dialing in a carb, there is absolutely no way youre going to be able to retrofit an EFI conversion and get it running properly. That is a very tricky project that has been tried many, many times- and I have only seen one boat running properly with the EFI set up afterwards. Everyone else abandoned the project and went back to a carb.

If your intent is to go skiing rather than work on your boat, I would highly recommend either A) buying a boat that came with EFI from the factory, or B) buying a new carb.

A properly dialed in carb should start easy, idle beautifully and perform wonderfully. I have carb'd boats that start and run 99% as good as EFI boats. If youre incapable of getting the carb dialed in, find someone who can tune it for you. You'll save money and headache in the long run!

100% agree with that statement. I've rebuilt several small block Fords but I suck at carbs and I won't touch another one. I have TBI now but I've owned two carbed MCs. With both carbed boats, I took them to a local guy who is into dirt track racing and is a god when it comes to carbs. Once he did the rebuild, all I did was pump the throttle once and turn the key. To this day, I feel that my carbed engines idled smoother that my present 95 with TBI.
I did convert my older boats to electronic ignition and kept it tuned up as others have stated. It has been a while, but I'm pretty sure the rebuilds cost me less than $250 total. Thats a lot cheaper than an EFI conversion. I guess you are talking about a TBI kit and not a full blown EFI system?

maxpower220
01-20-2011, 03:30 PM
I had carb issues on my 87. I rebuilt it and it was OK. Took it to the MC dealer for them to rebuild, it ran OK for a while. Finally purchased a new Edelbrock carb (and aluminum intake) and never had another carb related issue. A lot of people like Holley, but for about $100 more, I liked the Edelbrock even better: easier to make adjustments.

Adding a $2-3K EFI to a $8K boat doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you do it, post pictures.

east tx skier
01-20-2011, 05:10 PM
I mentioned this earlier, but it bears repeating. A lot of issues with carburetors stem from them sitting with fuel in them for extended periods. Over the years, this takes its toll. For those, myself included, who own (owned) a carb boat, but were less apt to tinker with the carb, you can do yourself a big favor by either running the boat with a good amount of frequency or, if you know you are going to have the boat put away for a couple of weeks between using it, stabilize however much fuel is in the tank before that last run so you can get the stabilized fuel into your carb and fuel system components before the period of disuse.

Taking this to the next degree of being anal, during the winter, you might even consider running the boat a time or two just to move things around in the fuel system so to speak.

I never got to the point of draining the fuel from the carb between uses. :) Not even sure if that would be wise.

maxpower220
01-21-2011, 02:05 PM
I was putting 300 hours a year on that boat in Tampa, I don't think the gas sat for more than 4 days at a time. There are times when parts or gaskets to wear out and need to be changed.

BTW, I miss college and skiing nearly everyday, yearround.