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6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 12:05 PM
Doing my research here and have LOTS left to do. This poll is geared more towards people living in or very near a metro area mainly but all insight is welcome. If a private ski lake with 1 course and a larger seperate area (but still connected) for tubing and general riding was available within easy access of major interstate and located within 30-45 minutes from downtown metro would you:

1. Be willing to plunk down $60k for a .75-1 acre lot. Maximum of 15 lots in the community. Reasonable HOA requirements for building (I.E don't have to build a million dollar home or drive a porsche)
2. Be willing to pay reasonable dues for upkeep of your private lake (I.E. water treatment to keep weeds down, upkeep on ski course, etc...)

The lake would be limited to only people who own lots on the lake and their boats.

This could be a little skewed due to the price of land around the country so try and keep that into perspective. Post away!

erkoehler
07-13-2005, 12:08 PM
When I buy my first house it would be AWESOME to have the option to get something waterfront/private lake side.

Here is a question for you:

Would you allow someone to leave there lot undeveloped but still have dock and such????

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 12:10 PM
When I buy my first house it would be AWESOME to have the option to get something waterfront/private lake side.

Here is a question for you:

Would you allow someone to leave there lot undeveloped but still have dock and such????


Good question. I'd have to give it thought. First inclination would be yes but definetely wouldn't allow campers or RV's to sit on their lot instead. The goal would be to build a lakefront ski community

betsy&david Harrison
07-13-2005, 12:12 PM
I'm excluded from this pole...no biggie...but you bet I'd pay to play. I've got great ski conditions when ever I want, only need two people (driver/skier) and no yutz's on the water when I'm skiing! This is a good pole...have fun!

jkski
07-13-2005, 12:15 PM
If it were in my area, you'd have a check already. Lots on private lakes in our area are going for $80k on up to $250k, and the building restrictions make it difficult for anyone that doesn't have the last name "Hilton" to afford.

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 12:24 PM
Jk, hey I am not that far south of you. Just come on down here, it wouldn't be that bad of a commute (Cincy to Akron) :D

No in all seriousness I am persuing this. My vision would be a comp ski lake capable of mid level tournaments if we wanted to have them. The course would be on a secluded area and then have another part of the lake for wakeboarding, free riding, etc... where you wouldnt bother someone on the course. I'd like to see homes with a value of $250k or greater (equivalent to a 2000-2300 sq. ft. home) All lots would have a spot on their lot for a dock (dock not included in land price) There would be a formal HOA that would govern the bylaws but bylaws/covenances would be reasonable. People who wanted to use the course would have to have a tournament approved ski boat. All land owners would have to have substantial liability insurance on their boats.

3event
07-13-2005, 12:31 PM
Maybe if you put MasterCraft as a bylaw requirement you could get some sponsorship support for lake maintenance and goodies. Would guarantee the rides you want out there. You could also get a LOT of pull with your local dealer, having the MasterCraft lake that hosted events - they would be all over you!

So many possibilities !

erkoehler
07-13-2005, 12:36 PM
I would also like to see no HOA fee! With a ski lake, there are so many ways to make money or earn donations. Anything from a ski show to a tournament or ski school would be alot more fun than writing out a HOA check. :D

This would also ensure that every takes an active role in the community/lake.

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 12:36 PM
I thought about that 3 Event, I heard of a place by Leroy where the builder/developer had a turn key package with the local marine dealer. Buy your land, we build your house and your boat's included in the purchase price.

I had toyed around the idea of pricing it higher, say $90k for a lot and a new MC 197 or 209 with lift was included. Only concern with that is my goal was to build a community that is affordable for families who want the lake atmosphere, between 90k for a lot and 250k min for a house price, you start to diminish your market at least in this part of the country

erkoehler
07-13-2005, 12:39 PM
Only tournament boats allowed, or any boat/jet ski/pontoon?

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 12:41 PM
Tourney boats only in the slalom course. Other boats allowed in regular part of lake. No jetskis, one boat per lot registered

betsy&david Harrison
07-13-2005, 12:43 PM
HOA's are really no big deal. If you keep your lake in the family price range like ours is, the dues are only 150.00 a month. Occaisionally we assess ourselves to do certain repairs but overall it has been a great experience. Another lake out that way has dues at 500.00 a month and one guy owns 5 parcels. There is a big personality difference between lakes and $$$ shelled out.

Granite_33
07-13-2005, 12:43 PM
Got my own options......the inlaws have a 5BR / 4.5BA 4,000 sq ft house sitting on about 200' of frontage. Its in the will. :D

So I got that going for me.......which is nice

Otherwise..........75 - 1 acre lot, waterfront access, 15 homes max.
$60K sounds pretty reasonable.

Granite_33
07-13-2005, 12:46 PM
only need two people (driver/skier) and


Does skiing on a private lake mean that you are not bound by state boating rules? Just curious. :)

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 12:47 PM
Betsy, HOA dues would be similar to what you experience. They would help take care of the property overall. If serious things needed to be done an assessment would have to be done.

Granite, MUST BE ROUGH! :D Do they want to adopt me? :D

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 12:48 PM
Does skiing on a private lake mean that you are not bound by state boating rules? Just curious. :)

You heard it! No spotter required! There would have to be safety rules in the bylaws though to protect the HOA from undo liability though. (I.E. no drunk boating, don't do stupid stuff, etc...)

east tx skier
07-13-2005, 12:49 PM
I'd say it depends where it is. I've seen them go for more and for less around here, i.e., in Texas. For me, it'd have to be a little closer. But again, I'm not in a major metro area anymore.

Near Austin (http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&postid=SIA01511)

Ben
07-13-2005, 12:55 PM
I think your proposal is good in the fact that you have included the tubing / rec area portion of lake living... If that area was big enough, I'd be in as well, as long as you can find me a job nearby.

Personally, I love to slalom and really want to get better in the course, but would have a hard time justifying the premium lot cost to only be able to ski, as some setups are. We are in process of remodeling a house on a lake now. There is a course, and you rarely get "perfect" conditions, but it is all made up for in the fact that we can go wakeboarding or for a pontoon ride to go swim, or eventually (shhh) probably pull the kids (on the way) tubing.....

Ideally (in my mind), there would be a narrow channel, with a gate to keep jetskis out, from our 450 acre lake to a slalom lake with sloping banks and 50 foot pine trees all the way around it... I would pay an annual fee for access to the gate code & course maintenance. Unfortunately the last 50' x ~200' lots are going for $250K - $300K on some of the lakes around here. One house just sold for $400K on a 60 x 210 or so lot that I heard is gonna get knocked down for a new build.... So this wipes out any shot of nearby, attached land for the ski lake.

betsy&david Harrison
07-13-2005, 12:58 PM
Our lake is Private Prop. so we do not have to obide by state boating rules. We do have rules for safety in the bylaws but it is mostly common sense. Guests must sign a liability release before skiing. Another thing...we don't do tourneys on our lake. You lose a weekend of skiing and end up having to clean up after everybody. Big Hassle! You don't end up making money from them either..at least not enough to write home about. The tournaments have been disappearing from our sites out west..personality of them. I'd rather ski in a fun tournament on a public lake even if I suck at skiing on them.

3event
07-13-2005, 01:00 PM
J, that makes sense. You don't want to lock too many people in to a large outlay. It's difficult to gauge the market for this kind of real estate, but it sure seems like an up and coming trend. With the proliferation of jetskis, tubers, and cheap runabouts driven by idiots, there is going to be more and more demand for private lakes. Public waterways are getting less and less friendly for dedicated sports enthusiasts who practice courteous and safe boating. We are on a lake cottage, but with limited hours contributing to traffic, I occasionally actually trailer my MC (horror of horrors) to get early AM sets on other larger lakes nearby. Maybe if I have a really good year, I am looking for such a lot too......

In any case, with boards like this one and web advertising you have a way to DIRECT MARKET to the exact group that could buy in. Keep us updated !!

3event
07-13-2005, 01:01 PM
J, that makes sense. You don't want to lock too many people in to a large outlay. It's difficult to gauge the market for this kind of real estate, but it sure seems like an up and coming trend. With the proliferation of jetskis, tubers, and cheap runabouts driven by idiots, there is going to be more and more demand for private lakes. Public waterways are getting less and less friendly for dedicated sports enthusiasts who practice courteous and safe boating. We are on a lake cottage, but with limited hours contributing to traffic, I occasionally actually trailer my MC (horror of horrors) to get early AM sets on other larger lakes nearby. Maybe if I have a really good year, I am looking for such a lot too......

In any case, with boards like this one and web advertising you have a way to DIRECT MARKET to the exact group that could buy in. Keep us updated !!

Workin' 4 Toys
07-13-2005, 01:15 PM
Tourney boats only in the slalom course. Other boats allowed in regular part of lake. No jetskis, one boat per lot registered
I was all for it until the One boat per lot. That ain't right.

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 01:19 PM
here is a really bad pic of what I mean using Paint.

The peninsula would have a gazebo out on it that all members could use for family get togethers etc..

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 01:21 PM
I was all for it until the One boat per lot. That ain't right.


Sorry workin, I can't see any other way. The lake I am on now does this and it seems to be the only way to keep crowd control in line. Otherwise everybody'd have a pontoon, their ski boat, and their fishing boat all on 1 dock and on the water

Ric
07-13-2005, 01:23 PM
Great ideas JR
Yes, factor the lower cost of land in my area to your numbers and ya, it makes sense.
There are several going up around here, but none with another multi use lake attached as you describe.
Now, I would not be interested if you allowed other than inboards at all on any of the lakes.
Kinda defeats the purpose I think.
"Tournament inboards only on the 3 event lake and inboards only on the other...No I/o's and no O/b's of any kind" would be to my liking.

There is one thought that's lingered with me for years as I've pondered ski lake life. Are you ready to pay a premium to live "on the water" and listen to your neighbors tournament I/O at 6am on saturday? Nothing wrong with what he's doing but it's now in your backyard. Along with that, what is life like on a private lake? Are you required to be off the water at dusk or can you hang out and swim and have a beer? There are rules, I'm sure that guys like George & Robert are living by at these places which I am not familiar with.
Erk
If ever HOA dues was an acceptable idea, I think a ski community would be it. Good Lord think of the costs of upkeep of the lakes and perimeter.

betsy&david Harrison
07-13-2005, 01:29 PM
Ric...people on private ski lakes don't ski that early..don't have to worry about water conditions and the public! :D Most people on the lakes ski from 9am to dark on mine. Sometimes even after dark. It is a fun place to be!

Farmer Ted
07-13-2005, 01:29 PM
Jk, hey I am not that far south of you. Just come on down here, it wouldn't be that bad of a commute (Cincy to Akron) :D

No in all seriousness I am persuing this. My vision would be a comp ski lake capable of mid level tournaments if we wanted to have them. The course would be on a secluded area and then have another part of the lake for wakeboarding, free riding, etc... where you wouldnt bother someone on the course. I'd like to see homes with a value of $250k or greater (equivalent to a 2000-2300 sq. ft. home) All lots would have a spot on their lot for a dock (dock not included in land price) There would be a formal HOA that would govern the bylaws but bylaws/covenances would be reasonable. People who wanted to use the course would have to have a tournament approved ski boat. All land owners would have to have substantial liability insurance on their boats.


Is the course going to be "adjustable"?

Ric
07-13-2005, 01:32 PM
Is the course going to be "adjustable"?
Yes Jeff in the new era of slalom, this should be a prerequisite!

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 01:32 PM
Good points Ric, I think Betsy nailed it on the head about ski times. My vision would be to have a family ski lake. It might not ever be used for the Pro Tour or anything but would be solid enough for mid level tourneys and really for the recreational/semi serious skier. The family element seems key to me here. I'd say boating after hours would be fine so long the noise level is acceptable. I'd even like to see the lake accesable for fishing, for me growing up this was a great part of being on the water, as much as skiing sometimes.

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 01:33 PM
Is the course going to be "adjustable"?
:uglyhamme :uglyhamme I knew this would come up!!! No way no how would this happen!!

betsy&david Harrison
07-13-2005, 01:38 PM
J..what you are after is nearly identical to what I have. Even the fish part...we are a commerical catfish farm. That is how the lakes in the area were allowed to be put in when they were invisioned 15 years ago. We can either catch and release or...catch one or two for supper...I'm not a big fish eater so I'm not in the fishing category you are.

Ric
07-13-2005, 01:39 PM
Ric...people on private ski lakes don't ski that early..don't have to worry about water conditions and the public! :D Most people on the lakes ski from 9am to dark on mine. Sometimes even after dark. It is a fun place to be!
I ski a private lake now where they do ski at 6am.
We have no need for rules about such a thing as there are no homeowners on this ski lake so this may be different than a ski community where your boat is out your back door rather than come and go, the way we have to do it.
I think our earlybird guys are coming out early to get their sets in and get home before they take away from mama's weekend plans rather than hurrying out for good water since we have good water all the time.

I don't even know that it would bother me living there with such early activities since I love ski boats, but I was wondering if it would get old after a while.

betsy&david Harrison
07-13-2005, 01:44 PM
Ric..
There is a lake, two behind mine, that work on membership. Some of them get up and ski early but the noise never gets to you because you know they are skiing...not the whine of a fishing boat that's for sure. The rest of the lakes out there are member only so one lake making noise early on is no big deal.

ski_king
07-13-2005, 01:45 PM
If I lived on a lake such as that, I would want to be abe to go out and get a set in at 6:30 or 7 before heading off to work. Just make sure the boats have mufflers and are not too loud.

As far as one boat per lot, I would suggest allowing maybe 2, but only one out at a time, or maybe only one in the water at a time.

betsy&david Harrison
07-13-2005, 01:51 PM
You can ski anytime you want at our site...most of us are just up late partying and sleep in! As for the boat numbers...we had a partner once...the rotation sucks! Not a great idea. Ten boat rotation is enough on one lake. Ideally a four to six boat rotation is best. Most of the year we have a three to four boat rotation so on the holidays I don't complain about the "crowds"

Granite_33
07-13-2005, 01:59 PM
Granite, MUST BE ROUGH! :D Do they want to adopt me? :D


I can't allow that. It could threaten my title of favorite son-in-law.

Of course, I am the only son in law. :D

RickDV
07-13-2005, 02:21 PM
Private ski lakes are definitely becoming popular. Developers just got approval for one about 20 minutes from where I live.

Don't know what the lots will sell for, but it sure is tempting to consider!

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1120146376200330.xml

zberger
07-13-2005, 03:02 PM
The private ski lake I go to.. allows 2 boats (whatever you want, on this lake there is no point in owning a fishing boat, so most people have ski/wakeboard boats and a pontooner) They also allow up to 2 jet ski's I believe, which some people have, others don't. I personally wouldn't allow the stupid things at all. They are loud and pollute the water all sorts of bad, and frankly they aren't that cool.

There are 426 homes on the lake, with 2 large coves that houses are situated on, also along the ski lake part are a large portion of the homes.

You can tube before 11am on the weekends, and after 6pm on the weekends, same goes for jet ski's.

All in all, its a great place to go on the weekends, and I would love to own a place out there someday.. but for right now.. goin there with a buddy.. (while i am still learning to ski) is fine by me.

www.woodclifflakes.com

jkski
07-13-2005, 03:17 PM
Jk, hey I am not that far south of you. Just come on down here, it wouldn't be that bad of a commute (Cincy to Akron) :D

No in all seriousness I am persuing this. My vision would be a comp ski lake capable of mid level tournaments if we wanted to have them. The course would be on a secluded area and then have another part of the lake for wakeboarding, free riding, etc... where you wouldnt bother someone on the course. I'd like to see homes with a value of $250k or greater (equivalent to a 2000-2300 sq. ft. home) All lots would have a spot on their lot for a dock (dock not included in land price) There would be a formal HOA that would govern the bylaws but bylaws/covenances would be reasonable. People who wanted to use the course would have to have a tournament approved ski boat. All land owners would have to have substantial liability insurance on their boats.

I'd love to join you, maybe we could find a spot between. I am looking to build a lake west/southwest of me, as there is a huge ski community out there, but no place to go. Cincy is just a bit too far for the daily commute!

jamisonsbrodie
07-13-2005, 03:18 PM
60K is cheap compared to here in Minnesota. There are 2 sites completed, a third almost done, and a 4th just about to begin. Lot prices are $175-200K. The 4th site that hasn't even started digging has only 3 lots left out of 30(two lakes side by side with lots around the outside). I am #17 and can hardly wait the 18-24 months till completion

Leroy
07-13-2005, 03:26 PM
Jeff; I'm also investigating similar idea. Issue for me is primary or secondary house and how close to primary if it is a secondary. I like the open area for goofing off!

Where is the place you mention near me already?

SDmc205
07-13-2005, 03:41 PM
The sad part is that in my neck of the woods (Southern California) 60 grand will buy you a nice double wide and thats it. I'm in the process of selling my house to buy property with my parents in law to build a house. It will probably cost us 350-500 for a decent 2-4 acre lot somewhere. No where near a lake either.

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 04:07 PM
Jeff; I'm also investigating similar idea. Issue for me is primary or secondary house and how close to primary if it is a secondary. I like the open area for goofing off!

Where is the place you mention near me already?

Leroy, wanna build half way, say around the Batesville area?

I can't remember the name of the lake, the guy who told me about it was the Malibu dealer there in Cicero? Cicero is near Indy right?

Leroy
07-13-2005, 04:17 PM
Cicero is on Lake Morse (where I am at), north of Indy. I can't imagine where it would be unless someone got one of the quarry lakes.

I think Batesville is too far for me, but bet you can get close to $1k/acre, pretty cheap land around there. I'm looking in the ~15 minute range from my house.

Leroy, wanna build half way, say around the Batesville area?

I can't remember the name of the lake, the guy who told me about it was the Malibu dealer there in Cicero? Cicero is near Indy right?

6ballsisall
07-13-2005, 04:55 PM
Leroy, actually I am thinking it might have been just outside of Carmel? Is that where you live? It was at a Malibu dealership.

Thats quite the work up you did there, where are you in your process of putting this together if I may ask?

mattsn
07-13-2005, 05:17 PM
There is a similar lake north of Fort Wayne off Coldwater Rd. called Sunset Lake. The only difference is the houses are much more upscale. All homes have waterfront and the developer put in matching covered boat houses. All look the same.

Has a course, but no tubing area.

dmac
07-13-2005, 05:25 PM
If I were in the area I would definately be interested in a setup like this. Definately locked in to this location for the next several years, we need to hang on to that in-state tuition funded by the Hope Scholarship. So all you Georgia folks, keep buying those lotto tickets.

jamisonsbrodie
07-13-2005, 05:54 PM
Here is the plat map for the site will be complete this fall here in Minnesota

http://www.trophylakesestates.com/three/PlatIII.pdf

bobk
07-13-2005, 08:50 PM
That price is way under what it cost in our area to get a water front lot. We looked into a place for West Michiganders by (Glenn Eagle Golf Course) and $60,000 for a 200 by 200 lot would have been a steal.

Double Overhead
07-13-2005, 09:26 PM
Wow - the lots in my neighborhood are only half-acre and they are going for $350k now. These are not lake lots, just normal custom home lots. These Californians have really blown up the Arizona market. These same lots in my neighborhood were selling for $70K 18 months ago. I would definately jump on this deal if it were in my area.

erkoehler
09-10-2005, 11:13 AM
SO, JR are you still going to try to do this with the possible move that you may be facing?

6ballsisall
09-10-2005, 11:23 AM
Won't be moving for a little while now. I didn't get that job. Definetely still thinking seriously about developing. Benefit for me is I work with developers and builders alot so I get to pick their brain for advice

erkoehler
09-10-2005, 11:25 AM
Won't be moving for a little while now. I didn't get that job. Definetely still thinking seriously about developing. Benefit for me is I work with developers and builders alot so I get to pick their brain for advice


Glad to hear that you are staying in the North, sorry you didn't get the job.

Have you looked at any land in Central or Southern IL? Lots of farm land once you get on 57 south.

bigmac
09-10-2005, 11:39 AM
Here in the Land of 10,000 Lakes, the entire concept of a man-made, skiing-only lake would be completely foreign. Most Minnesotans would just answer "huh?" to this question, but I'm originally from Nebraska so I can relate.

A one acre lot with 100 feet of lakefront (minimum size allowed to build on in this county) on a lake big enough to waterski in this part of Minnesota would cost between $150,000 and $200,000. On our lake, the cheapest lakefront home for sale ATM is $450,000. My next-door neighbor with 200 feet of lakeshore and 3 acres, and a pretty standard 30-year old 4 bedroom home just listed his house for just over $1 million. I hope like he11 he gets it.....

erkoehler
09-10-2005, 12:00 PM
Here in the Land of 10,000 Lakes, the entire concept of a man-made, skiing-only lake would be completely foreign. Most Minnesotans would just answer "huh?" to this question, but I'm originally from Nebraska so I can relate.

A one acre lot with 100 feet of lakefront (minimum size allowed to build on in this county) on a lake big enough to waterski in this part of Minnesota would cost between $150,000 and $200,000. On our lake, the cheapest lakefront home for sale ATM is $450,000. My next-door neighbor with 200 feet of lakeshore and 3 acres, and a pretty standard 30-year old 4 bedroom home just listed his house for just over $1 million. I hope like he11 he gets it.....


Lake front homes in Northern WI is the same way!!! Prices are rediculous, and you don't get much of a house to show for it.

bigmac
09-10-2005, 01:46 PM
Lake front homes in Northern WI is the same way!!! Prices are rediculous, and you don't get much of a house to show for it.


The Minnesota DNR has proposed a whole new set of shoreland development rules for all lakes in Minnesota. Among the most problematic is that the land has to be left entirely natural vegetation (except for a 4-foot wide path) for 1/2 of the lake-to-building setback. Setback on our lake ("general development") is 75 feet, it's 150 feet on "recreational development" lakes. That only affects development after the implementation date so it doesn't affect me, but they also are proposing a limit of only 500 square feet of dock and boat lifts. That *would* be a problem for many of us.

erkoehler
09-10-2005, 02:19 PM
I know that there are already a number of *rules* regaurding the docks in Northern WI, but since the DNR really never visits our lake we haven't had any problems so far.

Knock on wood.....