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09X2
01-05-2011, 06:48 AM
Why are the Jabsco ballast pumps ( port and STB ) mounted upside down ( impellor up ) on my 09 X2 ? is this oem ?

The KGB pump is Impellor down.

Ive had my X2 for 3 months ( purchased under new boat warranty as new) and the Port pump died this weekend, opened her up and its totally corroded, wires have come apart etc. Ide imagine that STB is in the same condition...will check tomorrow

I run 99% salt water, so would expect some reduction in service life, but 3 months....sheeeesh.

If I get warranty, which Ide imagine I would, I will be mounting the new one(s) the other way around to prevent water entering the electric motor body.

Any one else experienced these issues ? What can I do to increase the life of the pumps ?

Cheers

Jim@BAWS
01-05-2011, 07:27 AM
Your ID says you are from the Midwest??? But you are running in Salt Water? You own a Freshwater X2? are you running in salt now??? A Salt Water Series MC is set up much different than a freshwater one??? Newer MCs have ALL pumps mounted upside down.

A little more background and info please.

Jim@BAWS

09X2
01-05-2011, 07:33 AM
Western Australia....salty swan river is where I spend most of my time. It is a freshwater X2.

CantRepeat
01-05-2011, 07:45 AM
Your ID says you are from the Midwest??? But you are running in Salt Water? You own a Freshwater X2? are you running in salt now??? A Salt Water Series MC is set up much different than a freshwater one??? Newer MCs have ALL pumps mounted upside down.

A little more background and info please.

Jim@BAWS

Why are they mounting ALL pumps impeller side up now, Jim? With the amount of data that seems to conclude that this leads to failure, why would they do that? The installation instructions even suggest mounting them with the motor in the upright position.

Of the three pumps in my boat on the one mounted upside down has failed. I would much rather it take longer to service the impellers then have a $220 pump go bad in a couple of years.

Do the SWS boats use different pumps?


OP you are doing the right thing by turning all you pumps so they are impeller side down.

TX.X-30 fan
01-05-2011, 07:51 AM
Don't you need a closed cooling system in salt water, I would be more concerned about my motor.

09X2
01-05-2011, 07:59 AM
I flush after every session using a salt away. Not many boats over here run closed cooling. She gets some serious salt build up, but what can you do? Ide rather board every night all year round than wait for fresh water sessions where we hav to travell

bturner2
01-05-2011, 08:26 AM
The mounting position is definitely a well documented problem and has been the topic of discussion on this board many times. I had one go out on my 07 X2 this summer. PITA to get to and without a doubt put a serious kink in my vacation plans. The actual failure is the shaft seal which regardless of mounting position IMO is a quality problem with the pump. The truly amazing part is that the seal (when you can find one) is like $40.

The pumps on the 2010 X2s have been relocated to behind the engine on a bracket that now mounts then horizontally. While not providing what many would consider the optimal mounting position it does eliminate a great deal of the water intrusion exposure and locates them to position where one can inspect them and possibly see a leak before it becomes a problem. Relocating my pumps is on my list of projects I'd like to complete before launching this spring.

Jim - do you know if those bracket can be purchased and if so can they be mounted to the transom on older boats like mine without have to glass it backing plates?

CantRepeat
01-05-2011, 08:36 AM
Jim - do you know if those bracket can be purchased and if so can they be mounted to the transom on older boats like mine without have to glass it backing plates?


I'm not sure about X Stars but my X30 seems to have more room then the X2's engine area. I ended up making an aluminum block so I could turn the one pump right side up and not have a clearance issue with the hoses.

Jim@BAWS
01-05-2011, 09:49 AM
All models fresh or salt have ballast pumps mounted with the impeller side down. First you need to check your owners manuel... then consult your dealer. You should be in a saltwater series product. You will need to check your warranty status as MC makes and produces a product specfic to salt use. Flushing and rinsing will not be enough especially if you are running an MCx with aluminum exhaust manifolds. You will get electrolisis over those manifolds and they will degrade in a hurry. I would check on this pretty quick. You say the boat was purchased as NEW under full warranty...You need to go to your dealer directly...ASAP


Jim@BAWS

CantRepeat
01-05-2011, 09:58 AM
All models fresh or salt have ballast pumps mounted with the impeller side down.

Jim@BAWS

That is not correct. There's a thread here with a 2011 X45 with ballast pumps mounted flat.

Clearly in post #11 you can see they are not mounted with impellers down.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=38747

On a side note: It was unfair to ask you why MC is still doing this. You are not in a position to change the design. But, I'd urge all dealers to pass the feedback up to them.

Jim@BAWS
01-05-2011, 10:04 AM
That is not correct. There's a thread here with a 2011 X45 with ballast pumps mounted flat.

Clearly in post #11 you can see they are not mounted with impellers down.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=38747

On a side note: It was unfair to ask you why MC is still doing this. You are not in a position to change the design. But, I'd urge all dealers to pass the feedback up to them.

Let me clarify...Salt water series later models. That is a 2011 update. running change.

Sorry about the confusion.

Jim@BAWS

CantRepeat
01-05-2011, 10:37 AM
Let me clarify...Salt water series later models. That is a 2011 update. running change.

Sorry about the confusion.

Jim@BAWS

Right on. Hopefully they make that change to all the ballast pumps being installed now not just the SWS boats. I wish Jabsco would amend their install instructions from the "we recommend installing the pumps motor side up" to "always install with motor side up".

bturner2
01-05-2011, 01:27 PM
Jim - Any comment on retrofitting the pumps on my 07 X2 to the same position as the 2010 X2?

09X2
01-05-2011, 05:18 PM
All models fresh or salt have ballast pumps mounted with the impeller side down. First you need to check your owners manuel... then consult your dealer. You should be in a saltwater series product. You will need to check your warranty status as MC makes and produces a product specfic to salt use. Flushing and rinsing will not be enough especially if you are running an MCx with aluminum exhaust manifolds. You will get electrolisis over those manifolds and they will degrade in a hurry. I would check on this pretty quick. You say the boat was purchased as NEW under full warranty...You need to go to your dealer directly...ASAP


Jim@BAWS

SO your saying that my port and STB ballast pumps where installed incorrectly from the factory ? they are definaitley impellor up....so there should be no argument when it comes to warranty if one of these fails....right ?

Yes im running the MCx, as for the electrolisis what else can I do to minimise this effect ?

The reason Im running a non SS is that the boat was a reposessed unit from a floundering dealer and I got a ripper deal that couldnt be turned down, other wise I would have opted for the SS. The booat was a 09 build, purchased as New in sept 2010.

90% of the wake boats on the salt here are standard issue and seem to hold up pretty good, just need to wash and flush a bit more thoroughley after every ride.

Jim@BAWS
01-05-2011, 05:47 PM
SO your saying that my port and STB ballast pumps where installed incorrectly from the factory ? they are definaitley impellor up....so there should be no argument when it comes to warranty if one of these fails....right ?

Yes im running the MCx, as for the electrolisis what else can I do to minimise this effect ?

The reason Im running a non SS is that the boat was a reposessed unit from a floundering dealer and I got a ripper deal that couldnt be turned down, other wise I would have opted for the SS. The booat was a 09 build, purchased as New in sept 2010.

90% of the wake boats on the salt here are standard issue and seem to hold up pretty good, just need to wash and flush a bit more thoroughley after every ride.


Your ballast was installed correctly. You made what seems to be conscious decision to purchase a NON SALT WATER use MasterCraft. Have you throughly reviewed the differenences in the build process of the 2 products?

http://www.mastercraft.com/mctv/videos/5

09X2
01-05-2011, 07:03 PM
Your ballast was installed correctly. You made what seems to be conscious decision to purchase a NON SALT WATER use MasterCraft. Have you throughly reviewed the differenences in the build process of the 2 products?

http://www.mastercraft.com/mctv/videos/5

They use the same ballast pumps right ? So it shouldnt mater what series boat i purchased nor the application, all im concerned about is getting the pump replaced under warranty.

vision
01-05-2011, 07:21 PM
SO your saying that my port and STB ballast pumps where installed incorrectly from the factory ? they are definaitley impellor up....so there should be no argument when it comes to warranty if one of these fails....right ?


My 08 has the rear tank ballast pumps installed impeller up. My 05 was exactly the same. I suspect yours are correct. While I guess I am glad they are changing the orientation, none of my pumps have ever failed and it is incredibly easier to change the impellers when they are on the top!

But, a bad pump may not be covered under warranty if the boat is used in conditions for which it was not built. It depends on what MasterCraft states in their warranty and I do not have mine in front of me for my 08. But, if I recall correctly, it states that using the boat in salt water may void the warranty. I know I read that somewhere...

It sounds like using fresh water boats in salt water is common in your area. In our area where we also have both conditions, the value of a fresh water boat that has been used commonly in salt water drops tremendously. It might be worth making some additions to at least your cooling system to slow the corrosive damage of salt water. It might help your boat hold value.

skeeler
01-05-2011, 07:43 PM
Very interesting guys. In all my years of poking around here I have never noticed anything about the mounting orientation of the ballast pumps, affecting the pump itself. I did notice on my '08 X-Star that the STRB side pump is the only one mounted with the impeller facing up, and I just started having problems with it this past summer.
By problems, I mean that the impeller itself must have been getting hot and was melting the hard plastic insert causing it to spin out. I replaced two last summer alone. I am thinking this may be the cause of it. What are some of the symptoms you guys had with the pumps mounted incorrectly?

CantRepeat
01-05-2011, 08:10 PM
Very interesting guys. In all my years of poking around here I have never noticed anything about the mounting orientation of the ballast pumps, affecting the pump itself. I did notice on my '08 X-Star that the STRB side pump is the only one mounted with the impeller facing up, and I just started having problems with it this past summer.
By problems, I mean that the impeller itself must have been getting hot and was melting the hard plastic insert causing it to spin out. I replaced two last summer alone. I am thinking this may be the cause of it. What are some of the symptoms you guys had with the pumps mounted incorrectly?

Skeeler,

The only pump of mine that has gone bad is the one that is mounted impeller side up. What it does is spin slowly until pressure builds and then stalls out and just makes noise without filling the hard tank.

I've read many threads about bad pumps and it seems it's always been pumps mounted impeller up. Like I've read and posted in the past the install guide for the pumps says you can mount them in any manner but then goes on to suggest mounting them motor side up as a failure in the seal will allow water to drip on the motor and cause failure. Seems it would be best to just say to install them all of them motor side up.

Jim@BAWS
01-06-2011, 08:25 AM
They use the same ballast pumps right ? So it shouldnt mater what series boat i purchased nor the application, all im concerned about is getting the pump replaced under warranty.


Your dealer will have the best answer for you...

skeeler
01-06-2011, 10:01 AM
Skeeler,

The only pump of mine that has gone bad is the one that is mounted impeller side up. What it does is spin slowly until pressure builds and then stalls out and just makes noise without filling the hard tank.

I've read many threads about bad pumps and it seems it's always been pumps mounted impeller up. Like I've read and posted in the past the install guide for the pumps says you can mount them in any manner but then goes on to suggest mounting them motor side up as a failure in the seal will allow water to drip on the motor and cause failure. Seems it would be best to just say to install them all of them motor side up.

Thanks for the input. This will be the first thing on my list to fix when I pull it out in the Spring!!

09X2
01-06-2011, 05:39 PM
I pulled both STB and KGB pumps apart last night, they both look brand new, no sign of any fatuge or electrolisis....which you would imagne on a boat with only 40hrs.

Just waiting on a reply from the dealer re warranty....will have to make do with just the two until then.

TX.X-30 fan
01-06-2011, 07:56 PM
Thanks for the input. This will be the first thing on my list to fix when I pull it out in the Spring!!




Does get cold there huh...............:D

TallRedRider
01-06-2011, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the input. This will be the first thing on my list to fix when I pull it out in the Spring!!

FWIW, I had the same problem. $230 design flaw if you ask me.

09X2
01-07-2011, 06:11 AM
Dealer swapped out the pump no questions with a Johnson FB11, sweet looking pump, bit bigger than than the jabsco, it has the black impellor. Tester tomoz.

CantRepeat
01-07-2011, 06:51 AM
Dealer swapped out the pump no questions with a Johnson FB11, sweet looking pump, bit bigger than than the jabsco, it has the black impellor. Tester tomoz.

I'd change that to a green if I were you.

Jim@BAWS
01-07-2011, 07:12 AM
Dealer swapped out the pump no questions with a Johnson FB11, sweet looking pump, bit bigger than than the jabsco, it has the black impellor. Tester tomoz.

BLACK IMPELLERS...Did he do you SWAP out in a "DELOREAN" ???

09X2
01-07-2011, 08:55 AM
Got half a doz spares greens, will swap out when the black is u/s

09X2
01-07-2011, 09:01 AM
There was no DMC-12 present....or was there ?

bturner2
01-07-2011, 10:09 AM
Hmmm..... Still no comment on retro fitting the pumps to the location on the 2010 X2's. I must not be in the club. OH well.....

09X2
01-07-2011, 05:20 PM
Im considering mounting the port and STB pumps high up and towards the transom on the partition board in the rear locker so they stay dry and have better access.