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View Full Version : I registered 10 minutes ago. Advice is welcome


iktomi
12-13-2010, 10:50 AM
My name is Bob and own a Garage in New Berlin Tx. I have a degree in Mech Engineering but opted 10 yrs back to walk away from 18 hour days and 300 days a year in Motels. I opened a shop to restore all vehicles. That led to auto repair, then tractor repair, then of course I always had the Hi Performance Gene...I built my first motor (250 CI Chev) at 11 yrs old. :( It was a failure. Iv since improved dramatically. I got the Asian Hi Performance bug when the 350Zs came out----Turbo/SC installs, Motor/Clutch Mods etc. I do my own paint.
Moving right along, I decided to get back into boats. Mostly Hi End. MCs CCs, Bajas, so on and so forth. I have my short comings.

I acquired a '82 Mastercraft S&S that has promise. Brand new floor and stringers, clean ext. No Engine but a tested 1.52:1, New mounts and all the MC water inlets, starter, Alt, Carb, Dist, Water Pumps, Brackets etc etc. Also the New Decals. It is a Black Flake and what appears to be Gray.

Questions. .... (1) This was the 351. Am I correct in believing it was the Windsor ? (2) Where can I get Int./Ext Trim parts...Vents, Side bumper, ...The Bling ? I cant seem to find a place that specializes. (3) Is there a FI motor I can use ?

More to follow but this is a start---Thanx

thatsmrmastercraft
12-13-2010, 11:06 AM
Welcome to Team Talk. Sounds like you have a fine project on your hands. That most common engine for that boat would have been a Ford 351 Windsor, though I believe that the base engine was a 302. A person could order just about whatever he wanted at that time from a 350 Chevy to a 440 Chrysler.

rjracin240
12-13-2010, 11:16 AM
:( It was a failure. Iv since improved dramatically. I got the Asian Hi Performance bug when the 350Zs came out----More to follow but this is a start---Thanx

Congrats on the boat, great message board here and welcome to team talk from an Old School Z driver, check out my album to see my Z & Dime

east tx skier
12-13-2010, 12:02 PM
Welcome. Yes, probably a 351W. For old parts, ebay is your best bet. But you could always try the various dealerships to see what they might have lying around. You are just up the road from the TX SKi Ranch. Give them a call. They have a very good reputation for service.

iktomi
12-13-2010, 01:27 PM
Will do rjracin240 ---Im involved in my350z.com Forum with over 7000 posts mostly Tech issues although they have a Political section that I tend to vent on ....

ski_king
12-13-2010, 01:57 PM
If you havn't already, check out Discount Inboard Marine for engine parts. They know the older boat engines inside out and are a good source of knowledge.

Also check with your local MC dealer, but finding one that knows the older boats is rare.

As far as finding vents, trim, etc. Not much to be found other than an very rare, occassional boat that is being parted out. This forum is a good sourse in info.

I also have a 82 that is near orginal, if you need any info, just ask.

iktomi
12-13-2010, 02:08 PM
If you havn't already, check out Discount Inboard Marine for engine parts. They know the older boat engines inside out and are a good source of knowledge.

Also check with your local MC dealer, but finding one that knows the older boats is rare.

As far as finding vents, trim, etc. Not much to be found other than an very rare, occassional boat that is being parted out. This forum is a good sourse in info.

I also have a 82 that is near orginal, if you need any info, just ask.

I have chked them somewhat. This is just a winter project and am in no great hurry. First is engine and now that its verified it WAS the Windsor I will just get a Core and Build it. Little head work, Port/Polish, Intake change, Port Match, Cam change, Elec Ign. Nothing over the top. I have EVERYTHING relating to the Original---Pumps, Brackets, Carb, Exhaust, Alt, Starter. In the mean time I will hunt up the Detailing parts. Thank you all for the help so far

lanier92prostar
12-13-2010, 02:58 PM
If you havn't already, check out Discount Inboard Marine for engine parts. They know the older boat engines inside out and are a good source of knowledge.

Also check with your local MC dealer, but finding one that knows the older boats is rare.

As far as finding vents, trim, etc. Not much to be found other than an very rare, occassional boat that is being parted out. This forum is a good sourse in info.

I also have a 82 that is near orginal, if you need any info, just ask.

Plus, I got an email the other day from skidim that gives about 10% off of everything.

rjracin240
12-13-2010, 06:08 PM
Not sure how much validity there is to this, but since you will be looking for a block; I was told that the boat 351's were a heavier duty casting than the automotive blocks. Was told this by a self proclaimed Mustang expert......take it with a graain of salt and good luck

Think you should just say screw and drop a VQ in there!

TayMC197
12-13-2010, 06:23 PM
I have chked them somewhat. This is just a winter project and am in no great hurry. First is engine and now that its verified it WAS the Windsor I will just get a Core and Build it. Little head work, Port/Polish, Intake change, Port Match, Cam change, Elec Ign. Nothing over the top. I have EVERYTHING relating to the Original---Pumps, Brackets, Carb, Exhaust, Alt, Starter. In the mean time I will hunt up the Detailing parts. Thank you all for the help so far

I have a feeling the 302 was the motor that originally was in the boat. I would suggest putting the 351W in it. As for the 351 blocks being casted differently, I think he may be wrong but I'm not expert.

What parts are you looking for? I'm always finding things and if I run across them I will hit you up.

DemolitionMan
12-13-2010, 08:44 PM
If you can post some pics of your boat and what you are missing.

iktomi
12-13-2010, 08:50 PM
Not sure how much validity there is to this, but since you will be looking for a block; I was told that the boat 351's were a heavier duty casting than the automotive blocks. Was told this by a self proclaimed Mustang expert......take it with a graain of salt and good luck

Think you should just say screw and drop a VQ in there!

Interesting---

Also a VQ could be an option --Haha

iktomi
12-13-2010, 09:31 PM
To Tay and Demo--and others. This is the story. The customer dropped the boat off a yr back. He bought it to restore. He brought it to me to restore. It is on the MC Trailer that is flawless. Hour Gage on the boat says 900 plus hrs --? Obviously it had sat and the prior owner had it re-decked. Who knows? Awesome job--very clean. It was loaded with new parts laying in the boat. Motor mounts, Exhaust tubes and all the original motor components. NO MOTOR. A tested 1.52:1 Velvet. I will need, down the rd, the "Bling"-- Dash stuff, Vents, Perimeter bumper strip, Switch IDs, Speedo Restor.
The customer always kept in touch but didn't commit. I kept it protected. Bottom line I touched bases with him last week and he brought over the title, signed it over and said its yours. Well---Keep in Mind, this is the Country, things like this happen---its mine so I might as well do what he lost interest in. I emptied it today and inventoried. Every nut bolt and screw is there. Its Naked as we speak. I'm going to power-wash it tomorrow.
Iv restored dozens of Vettes, lots of Harleys and Indians, YAWN--Mustangs, 2 Pantera's (351 Cleveland's 1972), Dozens of Tractors.
Now possibly a boat.
Haha Idle Hands are the Devils Workshop !

iktomi
12-14-2010, 02:41 AM
Welcome. Yes, probably a 351W. For old parts, ebay is your best bet. But you could always try the various dealerships to see what they might have lying around. You are just up the road from the TX SKi Ranch. Give them a call. They have a very good reputation for service.
In FAQ the PCM 300+ download was good---Motor Info was Yawn, a machine is a machine but Velvet section was good.
Im a tad weak on the 351 Windsors which means I know more about than 90% of builders. The demands are different street to water. Caming? Intake--Single plane, dual plane ? Im thinking Single but you need a strong "off the line" so maybe Dual ? Ideal Comp Ratio ? Id say 9:1. Maybe 10.
Either way --Thanx

thatsmrmastercraft
12-14-2010, 07:59 AM
I know some of the guys have talked up single plane intakes, and for pulling adults skiing that should be fine. When you come to teaching a kid to ski or wakeboard, I'm not sure the holeshot would be as smooth as you would want. my boat came with a Summit Stage 2 dual plane intake which is very similar to an Edelbrock Performer, and I am very happy with it.

I think the intended use should play a big factor in engine build, and therein lies the difficulty. Top end of a single plane intake vs. smoother transition of a dual plane. HP from a big cam vs. of idle characteristics of a more stock marine cam (which is fair sized). Add an extra point in compression ratio vs. smoother idle qualities for idle speed sunset cruisin'.

If its a boat you plan to sell when finished, some well chosen mods can make it more attractive to a prospective buyer, but getting too carried away will limit your pool of potential buyers. If you plan to keep it, then you just need to consider how much engine you want to put up with. Personally, I can put up with a lot of engine, and I suspect you too.

Keep us posted on the direction you take and the progress. and for crying out loud - post some pics.:D

iktomi
12-14-2010, 11:00 AM
I know some of the guys have talked up single plane intakes, and for pulling adults skiing that should be fine. When you come to teaching a kid to ski or wakeboard, I'm not sure the holeshot would be as smooth as you would want. my boat came with a Summit Stage 2 dual plane intake which is very similar to an Edelbrock Performer, and I am very happy with it.

I think the intended use should play a big factor in engine build, and therein lies the difficulty. Top end of a single plane intake vs. smoother transition of a dual plane. HP from a big cam vs. of idle characteristics of a more stock marine cam (which is fair sized). Add an extra point in compression ratio vs. smoother idle qualities for idle speed sunset cruisin'.

If its a boat you plan to sell when finished, some well chosen mods can make it more attractive to a prospective buyer, but getting too carried away will limit your pool of potential buyers. If you plan to keep it, then you just need to consider how much engine you want to put up with. Personally, I can put up with a lot of engine, and I suspect you too.

Keep us posted on the direction you take and the progress. and for crying out loud - post some pics.:D

Haha --I will--Let me get my sheit together here. This is not going to happen overnight. Im not hasty. Jeez----Im at the point I have to get a 14" tire on the trailer just to pull it out of its spot its in. As I said earlier ---the glass is not buffing out well. I may do a light wet sand on it, (800, 1000,1500) then buff. Texas sun has taken its toll. Oxidized.
Bringing a new motor to life is always fun. You purchase a pile of parts suited to the application then make it live and breath.

Kyle
12-14-2010, 12:10 PM
What part of Texas?

DooSPX
12-14-2010, 06:50 PM
Welcome! First, do not forget that many marine specific parts are used. Brass freeze plugs, Marine Alt, starter, carb and a couple other things.
Second, I would not run over 9:1 or so SCR on a boat if you keep the iron heads. The factory SCR for the GT40 headed 351W (aka 351HO) was 8.8 and was a beast. Boats are under constant and very high load, high SCR w/ iron heads, even on 93 would be prone to detonation.
A small cam change, GT40-P heads, and a good dual plane intake would make for a 300+ hp monster in a old S&S w/ your 1.52:1 trans. Add a new CNC prop into the mix and have a KILLER boat!
Ideally you would want all your peak torque at 3000 rpm or so. That is the common RPM seen when you nail the throttle.

iktomi
12-14-2010, 07:12 PM
What part of Texas?
New Berlin Tx---Pop: 420

Close the Seguin and San Antonio

iktomi
12-14-2010, 07:22 PM
Welcome! First, do not forget that many marine specific parts are used. Brass freeze plugs, Marine Alt, starter, carb and a couple other things.
Second, I would not run over 9:1 or so SCR on a boat if you keep the iron heads. The factory SCR for the GT40 headed 351W (aka 351HO) was 8.8 and was a beast. Boats are under constant and very high load, high SCR w/ iron heads, even on 93 would be prone to detonation.
A small cam change, GT40-P heads, and a good dual plane intake would make for a 300+ hp monster in a old S&S w/ your 1.52:1 trans. Add a new CNC prop into the mix and have a KILLER boat!
Ideally you would want all your peak torque at 3000 rpm or so. That is the common RPM seen when you nail the throttle.
Good advice! 9:1 be tops. I tend to use Brass Plugs in everything but ur 100% right. Camming will be interesting. My Machinist is Jerry Janke here in San Antonio. I was going to discuss it with him. Hes and old friend and has built 1000s of motors---Boat, Drag, Mudders---He has in house Dyno. Im a little weak on the 351s ---302s Im strong on as I am on Chevys and early Hemis. But its apples and apples. Chamber CC, Lift, Duration, etc. Its going to be fun. I tend to agree with u and another guy here on the Dual Plain. Its the hole shot that counts. Thanx for the input !

03geetee
12-14-2010, 08:40 PM
Welcome aboard, sounds like a nice looking boat lets see some pics!

JTR

DooSPX
12-15-2010, 11:21 AM
Would love to see some pictures of this boat!

iktomi
12-15-2010, 01:06 PM
Im going to power wash it today---I also have to get a 14" on the trailer. As said earlier, Its in a naked state right now. I will in the next few days post some Pics though

thatsmrmastercraft
12-15-2010, 01:08 PM
Im going to power wash it today---I also have to get a 14" on the trailer. As said earlier, Its in a naked state right now. I will in the next few days post some Pics though

It would be one of the few things that you could post here in it's naked state and get away with it. Doesn't have to be pretty.............just show off what you have. we like them all!

iktomi
12-16-2010, 05:58 PM
I added a couple Pics to my album ---Late in the day but had a chance to inventory and power wash. More to follow. Navigation format is a little different here.

thatsmrmastercraft
12-16-2010, 06:01 PM
Nice. A lot of potential there. Looks pretty complete and solid.

rjracin240
12-16-2010, 07:30 PM
I added a couple Pics to my album ---Late in the day but had a chance to inventory and power wash. More to follow. Navigation format is a little different here.

Cool pics of boat looks like the one Jim is doing down there in Land O Lakes fl.

How bout some pics of the Z in the Album section, you going to be going to Savannah next summer for the Z convention?

iktomi
12-16-2010, 07:37 PM
Nice. A lot of potential there. Looks pretty complete and solid.
Yeah---Excellent floor work. All parts are there. Very clean Trailer and Exterior. Im going to play with Buffing tomorrow...see how it go's. I have the Makita 9227 and a good supply of compounds. I think I will wet sand and see if I can bring out the Flake. Maybe Clear Coat it if it does. If it dosent "take" ... I will paint. I like "Stealth" so it will be a Black with maybe a Green, Red. Yellow, ?? detail. Something Subtle.
I cant move fast so I have time to think about it. I like keeping the integrity of the "vintage" but like modifying with what "shoulda been" but wasn't available back then.

tex
12-16-2010, 07:44 PM
Erk!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iktomi
12-16-2010, 07:46 PM
Cool pics of boat looks like the one Jim is doing down there in Land O Lakes fl.

How bout some pics of the Z in the Album section, you going to be going to Savannah next summer for the Z convention?
Love to but that's a ways off. I dont now what Im doing next week much less next summer. ---I'll post some pics. My Z has gone through changes. Turboed (Turbonetics), Super Charged (Vortec) back to NA now. More Mods than I can count sometimes---I always forget one.

I'm just a poor Country Boy so I have to take a day at a time----Hope I dont have to sell my Dawg !

iktomi
12-16-2010, 10:38 PM
Cool pics of boat looks like the one Jim is doing down there in Land O Lakes fl.

How bout some pics of the Z in the Album section, you going to be going to Savannah next summer for the Z convention?

I tossed a couple Z pics in an Album--

rjracin240
12-17-2010, 12:06 PM
I tossed a couple Z pics in an Album--

Very cool, nice looking Z.

Keep the pics coming of the boat, you are giving me incentive to get my thread going of some repairs I have done. One more term paper to write then I should have time to do the thread.

Added some more pics in my album of the racing with the Z and other cars

bcampbe7
12-17-2010, 03:03 PM
Will do rjracin240 ---Im involved in my350z.com Forum with over 7000 posts mostly Tech issues although they have a Political section that I tend to vent on ....


Being a member of my350z forum, I suppose you know of XKR's car. Some pretty high HP vehicles over there!

iktomi
12-17-2010, 09:38 PM
Being a member of my350z forum, I suppose you know of XKR's car. Some pretty high HP vehicles over there!

I joined in 1/05 and XKR in 6/07.. after that I started fazing out a little. Yes there are some High HPs. I was up to 426 HP but many are more than twice that--much more..Theres the guy that put the Nissan V8 in his and then, just built motors boosting high teens if not more. Main thing is beefier rods and cut back on CR. I was involved in Tech advice. Engines to Brakes, Clutch set ups etc---Mines for sale now---Thought Id get back in the boat deal for awhile then downsize and buy more TOYS !!!
After I bought mine I had close to another 15,000 in it within a year. UGH ! I cant afford that anymore !!! I'm fortunate I do ALL my own work including the paint otherwise NO WAY !

iktomi
12-21-2010, 12:00 AM
I will semi-retire from this thread and start another when I have something to show. I have to hunt up an Engine Core etc. I played with Buffing out the finish. ----400 grit, then 800, 1000, and 1500. Followed by a Quick Cut, then a Medium, then a Polish Grade Machine Buff. Not bad but the Black Flake is not JUMPING out and the Gray Solid just is not a good Reflector---Plus it would be a HUGE amount of work for a rather Bland Color Scheme to start with. I apologize to the die hard "originality" Guys out there. It has its place but not in this situation I feel.

I like "Stealth" and little or no "Bling" so it will be tasteful and the S&S theme will remain. I prefer that something looks great at 2 feet rather than 100 ft.

Until later...

Til then I will visit and get involved in some tech issues where I can offer honest, factual input

thatsmrmastercraft
12-21-2010, 12:38 AM
If you haven't already, you might check out what americanskierJim did in his LTD Mastercraft restoration thread http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=33649 He had the same issue with his flake and he ended up clear coating it. Came out very nice. Good luck.

iktomi
12-29-2010, 08:52 PM
If you haven't already, you might check out what americanskierJim did in his LTD Mastercraft restoration thread http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=33649 He had the same issue with his flake and he ended up clear coating it. Came out very nice. Good luck.

Late reply. Iv had my hands full. Plus Iv been cramming. :D--- Things that dont cost me anything at this point.

Engine: Heads design/CCs, CR, Intake, Cam Profiles etc.
Interior: Dash Restore, Gages, Two Battery setup, A few hard to find parts.
Exterior: What am I going to do ? Yes I read that full Thread, very interesting. I haven't decided. A couple more hard to find parts--air ducts etc. And JEEZ !!! Bumper material --$$$$$$$, UGH.
Transmission: ---I may freshen it so been cracking the Velvet Drive Manuals--Seals, Clutchs etc.
Incidentals: Rudder and Shaft seals and installation. Also Etc.

Oh --and Teak Restore

Plus Makin a living ! So I can pay for all this---

When I move on something I move VERY Fast but I like my proverbial ducks in a row first---